drumsound wrote on Sun, 27 March 2005 16:57 |
I don't even know if I should add to this thread. There' a lot of things happening and I have thoughts though.... I'm also totally on board with William. Records should be mixed by the engineer/producer who made them in the first place. I often know certain things that will happen in a mix well before I'm at that stage. If I hand the record off, how do I know that those things will happen? I do commit a lot of things to tape. I want an odd, pointy guitar, I set up that sound in the room and then record it that way. But I try to get a good level to tape for S/N ratio even if I know it will be low in the mix. An outside mixer might crank that part and change the whole feel it was meant to add to the mix. I like having 24-tracks. I also like not even using them all. Unlimited tracks and long record lengths are not helping our industry for the most part. There are exceptions to the rule of course and I don't think that these things a bad in and of themselves, but I think they help 5-8% of the time and detract 92-98% of the time. 2% of the time they're just right. To address J Hall, Ross and others, I also agree that we shouldn't spend our time making broad stroked "this guy sucks" comments, but I have no problem with informed, specific criticisms (of me, my work or choices or of others). |
strawberrius wrote on Sun, 27 March 2005 17:36 |
i have produced/recorded songs mixed by most of the big dogs. in some cases, i chose who would mix and in others, the label chose. you have to remember that not all producers/engineers are even allowed to mix their own records these days (even if they are excellent at it). especially when those records get up into the competitive "million seller" category. but in the last several years i have become real good at printing the sounds and FX that i want in the final mix. there actually is an art to preparing Protools Files for these guys. for instance, TLA & CLA want essentially "block audio" with no plugins whatsoever. in JJP's case, he likes to get the PT session as i last had it... plugins/drum samples/unconsolidated fades and all. I'm in the middle of mixing several different artists with clearmountain right now and he is cool enuff to throw in the 5.1 mix at the same time. i love to mix and essentially do mix every project on ProTools b4 i send it to these guys. but..... i must say after working on a grueling album for 3 months, the last thing i want to do is mix it/open up that can of worms.... so i'm all in favor of other people mixing my records. and all of the above have been excellent at working with me and my mix comments (including a/b'ing to my protools 'ruff' mix). in the end it usually makes for a happier artist, producer & label. just my 2 cents. -jrf |
Ryan Moore wrote on Mon, 28 March 2005 03:46 |
FWIW - speaking about outside mixers, I did once work on a project as a muso where the recording engineer just rocked in getting great sounds, being part of the vibe, being a creative editing hero etc etc & when it came to doing some mixes it was obvious it was just not 'there'..I was surprised by that, Anyway, a 3rd party was brought in to mix and he did a great job, taking it to the next level.. The orig engineer did the final mastering BTW.. So in that case the tag team approach really did make the trax & album the best it could be.. I do appreciate though that it had a lot to do with this <particular> mixer and his connection to the music and the people doing the project (not meaning croneyism but being on the same 'wavelength'), in short being the perfect man for the job eg: just hiring in 'a mixer' or sending it to LA to run through 100 compressor channels or whatever would have ruined dinner,,. |
steveeastend wrote on Mon, 28 March 2005 07:54 |
I can second that. I wish there would be more affordable, good guys around my area... Mixing, after months of arranging, playing and producing (because that?s 90% of my job), can be really a hard time. Everyone?s finally happy with the takes, arrangements, sound etc. and than there is this kind of relief from the artists side..... "think we made it, just mix and let go... .. JUST mix it.... I wish it would be that simple.... cheers steveeastend |
steveeastend wrote on Tue, 29 March 2005 09:52 |
Terry, your story of your experience with this famous group, which has been put down by this mixer is really a sad one. I really feel sorry for this group. But to be honest, it is so hard for me to image that there are not a bunch of really good guys out there, who will do their job properly to a reasonable price and who do care. If somebody like you, who got a lot of experience and knowledge of the business and great reputation as well is not able to find a mixer, who jumps in, just in case somebody fails or in case you really cannot find any time, how should I can? |
Eric Vincent wrote on Tue, 29 March 2005 01:29 |
Sometimes I'm hearing the mix BEFORE THAT...I'm hearing the mix before the artist gets to my studio...before he/she even gets up out of bed that morning, I'm hearing the mix. Often times, I just LOOK at the artist, and I know what the mix should sound like. |
henchman wrote on Tue, 29 March 2005 17:07 | ||
This is the biggest pile of nonsense I've ever read. Come back down to planet earth Eric. |
compasspnt wrote on Wed, 30 March 2005 06:41 |
So the question becomes, is our vision, which is only achievable by mixing our own tracked and produced music ourselves, the best and correct presentation of that music to "the world" in general, or is it merely the closest thing to our own mental image of it? This may not be answerable. |
compasspnt wrote on Mon, 28 March 2005 23:55 |
Once all of the pre-production, tracking, overdubbing, vocalising, comping, re-overdubbing, re-comping, etc., etc., etc., is finally finished, I almost always just DREAD the mix. Don't get me wrong, I like the mixing process. It's just that in many cases, no matter how much I like the music, I've just had enough of it for awhile. I ALWAYS wish terribly for at least a couple of weeks between finishing recording and starting mixing. Of course, this is NEVER a possibility. Everyone is always in too big of a hurry. So it just starts, and it always gets done, and it's usually pretty good. |
compasspnt wrote on Tue, 29 March 2005 10:18 |
First of all, the mixer in question did not do a bad job technically...in fact, it was textbook. What he did not do was special, strange, or inspired things which might have helped make the tracks something more than they were (yes, this can sometimes happen). That's what I knew TLA would have done with this, as he'd done it before. |
jfrigo wrote on Wed, 30 March 2005 09:29 |
An outside mixer is not necessarily a bad thing if there is a producer or artist involved to explain the vision and the plan from tracking. I think the people involved in a long tracking process can get too close to a project and get ideas stuck in their heads that may not be best for the music. We should be open to altering our pre-conceptions. At the same time, one most likely can't come in at the end with no direction at all and just "get it." I think more people should welcome the fresh perspective, but it should be accompanied by some direction, either in person, or at least through good notes and feedback early on. A mixer who is uncommunicative is the wrong person to hire. And I think committing to certain things in tracking is definitely a good idea. So many people don't have a clear vision and the project is a mess when it comes time to mix. The session should be well enough produced as to make certain mix intentions clear. It also helps the overdubs fit better when the existing tracks are already cohesively supporting the ultimate vision. This doesn't mean that experimentation and happy accidents aren't welcome, but it does mean that you should not be saying after every take, "I don't know. Let's just do this for now and figure it out later." |
J.J. wrote on Wed, 30 March 2005 13:48 |
... artist: Can you do something about the guitar sound? me: Sure, I'm dealing with the kick at this moment. I'll get to that in a bit. artist: And we need more reverb on the vocal. me: Right. There's no reverb yet. Let me finish dialing in this one thing nd I'll get to that eventually. artist: Do you think the snare is too boxy?... |
Fibes wrote on Wed, 30 March 2005 07:41 |
i have also witnessed train wrecks that were merely different train wrecks than i would have brought to the table being burnt out and rushed on the project. |
J.J. wrote on Wed, 30 March 2005 18:07 |
But otherwise, there's absolutely nothing wrong with acknowledging that you did good job on a mix. |
Norwood wrote on Wed, 30 March 2005 21:34 |
I read somewhere something that Stave Albini said. He said,"Deep down every engineer has this feeling that they don't measure up...... |
J.J. wrote on Wed, 30 March 2005 13:48 |
Here's my favorite part of the mixing process, usually about 5 minutes into the mix: artist: Can you do something about the guitar sound? me: Sure, I'm dealing with the kick at this moment. I'll get to that in a bit. artist: And we need more reverb on the vocal. me: Right. There's no reverb yet. Let me finish dialing in this one thing nd I'll get to that eventually. artist: Do you think the snare is too boxy? me: (to my assistant)Marc, please grab the shotgun from behind the compressor rack. I find it is usally necessary to have the artist there for a mix, but generally I won't let them come in until I have all the sounds, unless they know how to sit there and shut up until I'm ready for their input. |
compasspnt wrote on Wed, 30 March 2005 12:58 | ||
Yes, you are exactly right...for everyone else. As for me, I am perfect, so I won't need that... Edit: Just kidding, of course! |
maxim wrote on Thu, 31 March 2005 16:18 |
...there are so many intuitive processes that go into creating a piece, that i feel, unless i'm sure that the other person is on my wavelength, they would miss the point having said that, two minds can be better than one but, too many cooks spoil the broth and stitch in time saves nine also, rolling stones gather no (ian) moss etcetera etcetera |
J.J. wrote on Thu, 31 March 2005 07:52 |
I remember a session, that thank god I was not engineering, where the A&R guy I knew very well was sitting there, and while the band was tracking he started complaining to the engineer about the lack of low end. Not only was the A&R guy a completely talentless poseur who had no business having that job, it never occurred to him that it could have been: A) the location of the room where he was sitting B) the particular mix that the engineer wanted to hear C) none of his fucking business, so he should just shut up and not tell the professionals how to do their job. Imagine if he had been there for mixing! |
maxim wrote on Thu, 31 March 2005 22:18 |
terry wroye: there are so many intuitive processes that go into creating a piece, that i feel, unless i'm sure that the other person is on my wavelength, they would miss the point |