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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => j. hall => Topic started by: j.hall on October 06, 2005, 10:59:07 AM

Title: interesting situation...
Post by: j.hall on October 06, 2005, 10:59:07 AM

so, i'm mixing a record for a band that has members i've worked with before.  a mutual (and long time) friend of myself and the new band was brought in to play drums.

he's not in the band, just the session drummer.

he did a brilliant job and the whole thing is now in my hands to be mixed.

i got an email from the drummer friend a few days back requesting that i send him copies of the mixes.  the strange part is what he actually said.  i quote, "When you start mixing, shoot me some mixes for critique"

it's no mystery that he's a bit of a control freak, not really in an annoying way.  it just seems odd in this situation.

to date i haven't replied to the email, i've made the band aware of the request and that i would only send mixes with their permission.

i'm sure his intentions are good, i've known him for a long time.  but the band isn't as entertained.  

so, seeing that every one involved are old friends, what would you do.

ignore the email?
call him to discuss?
reply to the email?

how often do situations like this come up for you guys.  i'm very rarely involved with drama that actually concerns me.  usually it's in the band and not me.

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: jimmyjazz on October 06, 2005, 12:10:36 PM

Tell him the truth.  Tell him that you and he both work for the band, and the band says no.

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: redfro on October 06, 2005, 12:11:08 PM

j.hall wrote on Thu, 06 October 2005 09:59

i'm sure his intentions are good, i've known him for a long time.  but the band isn't as entertained.

Either let the band talk to the guy and tell him how they feel or, if it's more comfortable for you since you know the guy, tell him how the band feels.  It's the band's record and he needs to know that since he's been paid for his drumming, not his mixing ability, his involvement with the recording is over.

Tough spot for you, though, since you're in between all this.

Good luck.

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: j.hall on October 06, 2005, 01:21:22 PM

see, the issue for me isn't being honest.  if anything, i'm probably too honest in general (get's me in trouble from time to time).

for me, the issue is, i shouldn't have to be the guy to tell him anything.  and if i am, it'll be something like, "hey, i have to check with the band (other friends of his) to make sure it's cool to send mp3's, but we don't need help mixing it"

if i do that, i make his other friends look like chumps cause they couldn't do it themselves.

but if i defer to them and have them do it, i look like i ratted him out and made them deal with it.

so honestly, it's almost a no win for all involved.

i'm just curious if you guys get pulled into drama like this on records you work on?

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: Frob on October 06, 2005, 01:51:20 PM

yes, this drama is all over the place. soit this way just reply with i have to ask the band, i assume you've got the roll of producer so that is your job to tell him.

if your not producer and he is just saying a litle "let know how things are goin" then just tell him you cant, but dont tell him why, just that you cant.

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: takeout on October 06, 2005, 02:12:25 PM

Tell them what I suggested...

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: floodstage on October 06, 2005, 02:14:35 PM

I'm not very diplomatic, especially in situations where multiple people give me mix suggestions, so I always try to have a band designate one person to be my sole contact for mix critiques.  

When people ask why, I show them sheets one band gave me where the bass player said "turn up the drums", and the singer said "turn down the drums" on the same song.

I'd use that policy to try and diffuse the situation in this case.

I'd just explain the policy to (drummer) and say that (band leader) is my contact, so if (drummer) wants to be part of the processs, feel free to contact (band leader) and work thru him (or her).

I would then attempt to joke about how unstable I am and how I'm known for anything but diplomacy and hopefully the situation would be resolved.  Hopefully.  (With my luck, I'd blow it and piss him off, but that's how I'd try to deal with it.)

Good luck!

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: NelsonL on October 06, 2005, 03:31:24 PM

Tell him you'd love to have his feedback.

Then send him mixes with the drums muted.

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: j.hall on October 06, 2005, 03:56:21 PM

WHOA...........that's exactly what takeout suggested monday night.....

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: NelsonL on October 06, 2005, 05:15:45 PM

Really?

Psychic friends network, or proof that I've never had an original thought?

After a little more reflection, I think the band should let him comment and then feel free to ignore and/or out vote him just like they would any other drummer. If they shut him out completely it could be worse to hear his 2 cents after the record comes out when nothing can be done about it.

Then again, assuming he was paid for his time maybe he should know better than to stick his nose in at mix.

And yet, I imagine he has good intentions on the whole.

Hmmm.

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: drumsound on October 07, 2005, 04:31:02 AM

I think I would reply to his email and tell him that he needs to contact the band about this.  

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: Fibes on October 07, 2005, 11:45:33 AM

drumsound wrote on Fri, 07 October 2005 04:31

I think I would reply to his email and tell him that he needs to contact the band about this.

You don't have the permission to release THEIR material to him.

That's their call.

And yes drama is everywhere but when it comes to my session players they usually get their cash, make a quip about making them sound good and go away. That's the beauty of good session guys, no headaches. Sure, we could make the argument that it's different in the indy world but in this case he needs to but out. It's not his record.

Too many cooks and you get salt soup.

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: pg666 on October 07, 2005, 04:58:59 PM

i've been in a situation like your 'sesh' drummer. in my case, i asked to attend the mix session simply because i knew they'd be triggering a lot of stuff and sometimes those things can 'misfire' and i'm the only one who could (or would even care to, ugh..) spot it.

my point is this guy could very well have good intentions so he should at least be heard out and then that be reiterrated to the band. if not, then just tell him he's not in the band and that's that. i really don't see how 'too much' communication in this situation could hurt anyone.

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: Frob on October 07, 2005, 05:24:38 PM

the rode to hell is paved with good intentions, and hounestly i let every one comment all they want, because sometimes a good idea that i hadnt thought of, comes out. but remember that in the end only one persons opinion get listend to. mine.

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: angry on October 08, 2005, 05:18:41 AM

I am dealing with a similar situation.
A band that I've worked with a number of times, is in the studio and they have this guy with them that is their rodie and occasionally plays bass on tour (their current bass player can't tour, so this guy fills in.) but not on this recording.
He is extremely "hands on" giving me suggestions and asking questions every other second.
He also requested mixes to critique.
Now, the thing is, if he was playing on the recording, I would appreciate his focus, enthusiasm and attention to detail.
But, I can't seem to get my attitude around the fact that he's not technically in the band, and should therefore sit in the back of the room with all the other label people/hanger-ons and shut up or at least give his suggestions to the band to consider and then the band can relay those suggestions to me.
The trouble is, I've spoken to the band about the situation and no one in the band will deal with it because this guy is prone to throwing tantrums and is an asset to the band transportation/loading/grunt work wise.
So I don't quite know what step to take.
Do I put up with it and get through the recording?
Or do I take him aside and let him know what's on my mind?
He's not ruining the record or anything.
It just annoys the utter shit out of me.
I am in a pickle.

Title: Re: interesting situation...
Post by: j.hall on October 09, 2005, 10:15:06 PM

i'd take him aside and talk to him.  don't be rude, or even let your frustration level be knokwn.

just have a good conversation.  i'd do that with my friend but he's in colorado and i can't speak with him in person.

i much prefer face to face discusion.  i think if you are polite and not attack him, he'll be receptive to what you have to say.