Post by: compasspnt on February 12, 2005, 02:12:27 AM
I will start by mentioning a few I have, that can really come in handy at times:
•LOFT 450-An analogue, bucket brigade delay/modulation device that is very cool on electric guitars. Made in probably the late 70's-early 80's. I have two, and used one this week.
•ROLAND SDD-320 DIMENSION-D-I guess lots of people may know about this device, but if not, there is no smoother chorus/phase sound around. Sometimes subtle, but in the right place, the best.
•ROLAND SPH-323 PHASE SHIFTER-Companion to the Dim-D. Great phasing!
•CASTLE PHASER-One of the wildest, coolest phasers ever! Stereo unit, or you can chain the A out into the B in for double phase. Very rare, I think. I just used mine tonight. From about '82-83.
Best to all,
Terry
Post by: RMoore on February 12, 2005, 09:28:41 AM
Must have been made in the70's..
I guess bucket brigade cuz it was not tape..
he said he'd searched for 15 yrs to find one..
He found another, probably later, rack mount version but it didn't sound nearly the same.
If anyone saw the Legendary Pink Dots live in the early to mid 90;s the Trucker got lots of use for synth-like outer space voyages..
I think it was some handmade product made here in Holland in small numbers,
I;m still looking!
Post by: JGreenslade on February 12, 2005, 09:59:21 AM
Justin
Post by: jfrigo on February 12, 2005, 02:13:43 PM
Post by: Barry Hufker on February 12, 2005, 02:37:19 PM
Of course not the most bizarre, but one of the "golden oldies" of signal processing is the "stairway echo chamber." Place the speaker at the top of a stairway spanning several floors. Put a stereo pair of mikes at the bottom. Send in the audio, grab it with the mikes and voila! -- echo chamber.
Post by: compasspnt on February 12, 2005, 04:15:33 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Sat, 12 February 2005 14:37 |
... the Cooper Time Cube -- a much cooler name than device. Prior to bucket brigade and digital delay, running sound through a tube (in this case cardboard (there's quality for you!) would produce a delay. The tube was folded to lengthen the delay. It had a speaker at one end and a small microphone at the other. And that was the 'brilliance" behind this device. Needless to say there was a profound resonance based on the length of the tube.... |
What a beast this thing was! I think you got all of maybe 19 ms of delay on a humid day, and the worst mid-range resonance you ever heard! Stax had one, and we'd try to use it, but it was neither nice nor easy.
Post by: compasspnt on February 12, 2005, 04:17:03 PM
Post by: Bill Mueller on February 12, 2005, 06:01:44 PM
One of the first analog bucket brigade devices, created by Steve Marshal (Steve StCroix if you read MIX). This machine could create THE most amazing flanging I have ever heard. Never heard anything come close since.
Steve was also involved with the Quantec Room Simulator.
Best Regards,
Bill
Post by: McAllister on February 13, 2005, 12:58:07 AM
Anyway, it went on eBay.
I have a MasterRoom spring reverb that I love and some Decca mic pres. Probably the weirdest thing I've got is a Sound Master TA-2400 reverb. Made for home stereo entheusiasts that wanted to add reverb to everything they had. Sounds killer & unlike anything I've ever heard. Definitely not for everything, but great.
- - -
Of course, I'm not in y'all's league, so dismiss my ramblings if need be.
M
Post by: compasspnt on February 13, 2005, 01:12:34 AM
| McAllister wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 00:58 |
Of course, I'm not in y'all's league, so dismiss my ramblings if need be. M |
OK, you are dismissed....no, only kidding!
Thanks for those!
I had heard that the Master Room spring was good.
That reminded me of another of my favourites, The Great British Spring reverb. I have two of them. They are about 4 feet long, made of gray PVC tubing, and have four long springs inside each. Sound great on guitars, vocals, keys, lots of things, except for percussion/drums ("boing!")
Post by: McAllister on February 13, 2005, 01:27:10 AM
There is also a Tone knob, but I haven't moved it in over a year, so. . .
In a word: creamy.
M
Post by: zmix on February 13, 2005, 01:30:10 PM
Certainly the most obscure piece I've seen.
PLEASE: if anyone has one or knows of it, please let me know!!
-CZ
Post by: cgc on February 13, 2005, 02:51:46 PM
| McAllister wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 00:27 |
Well, the MasterRoom is an odd duck. About 4 feet tall. An ugly, real-fake-wood housing conceals 2 springs of different lengths. Mono in; stereo out (one for each spring). There is also a Tone knob, but I haven't moved it in over a year, so. . . In a word: creamy. |
You can find a nice Impulse Response for that here:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~fokkie/IR.htm
My favorite processing device has to be an Emu Modular synth. I don't think they made more than 100 of these and would be surprised if a quarter of that number are still functioning. This thing was the typical 60s-70s modular with about 35-40 square feet of panels full of oscillators, filters and dynamics. It also had a bunch of one off things like a full complement of digital logic modules and the legendary 'divide box'. The latter took an incoming pulse and multiplied the interval so you got relationships from 1:2 to 1:10 on 10 outputs. It had 3 banks which could be cascaded for very complex rhythmic patterns. I've since made reproductions in Max and Supercollider, but there's no comparison to having one sit atop an analog beast.
I also used the modular to do voltage controlled mixing either using MIDI or analog controls. Since there was no memory for settings beyond pen and paper, each session was mainly about building entirely new and often unpredictable patches. Needless to say I ran everything, drums, bass, guitar, loops, tapes, even delays and reverbs, through it. You could just keep cranking voltage into it up into to the several hundred kilohertz range without incident - the beast was damn near bulletproof.
Post by: RMoore on February 13, 2005, 03:08:48 PM
| compasspnt wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 07:12 |
That reminded me of another of my favourites, The Great British Spring reverb. I have two of them. They are about 4 feet long, made of gray PVC tubing, and have four long springs inside each. Sound great on guitars, vocals, keys, lots of things, except for percussion/drums ("boing!") |
I was gonna buy one of these, it looked crazy built in a plastic plumbing style pipe..it was giving off 40v shocks so I took it back to the 2cnd hand store, passed on it, and not much later bought an EMT140 plate for the same amount of dough (+- $400)..
Anyway I thought $400 was too much cash for the GB spring.
I know some other engineers in the UK who love their GB springs.
Post by: compasspnt on February 13, 2005, 03:15:54 PM
| Ryan Moore wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 15:08 | ||
I was gonna buy one of these, it looked crazy built in a plastic plumbing style pipe..it was giving off 40v shocks so I took it back to the 2cnd hand store, passed on it, and not much later bought an EMT140 plate for the same amount of dough (+- $400).. Anyway I thought $400 was too much cash for the GB spring. I know some other engineers in the UK who love their GB springs. |
Sounds like that one needed help. And your EMT is probably OK reverb...
But if you ever get your hands on a GB Spring, you probably won't let go (unless it does shock you).
Post by: WhyKooper on February 13, 2005, 04:44:28 PM
I'd see them at every AES in the late 70's, but never in real life. Don't know if they ever actually made it out for anyone to use.
Post by: wwittman on February 13, 2005, 05:01:35 PM
I also like the MXR rackmount flanger and the Studio Technologies Stereo Simulator.
Post by: compasspnt on February 13, 2005, 05:10:34 PM
| WhyKooper wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 16:44 |
These aren't other-wordly, but I always wondered about the Stephens capstanless 32 track and the Quad8 digital reverb. I'd see them at every AES in the late 70's, but never in real life. Don't know if they ever actually made it out for anyone to use. |
Leon Russell had one of the Stephens 32 or maybe 40 tracks; he brought it in to use on something in about '73-74. Very strange machine. 32 (or 40) tracks analogue on 2" tape, I think...I guess it would have been half of the "audio power" of a 16 track!
Randy Ezratty had Stephens in the early '80's, but I don't know if he had a 32; I know he had a 24.
TM
Post by: neve1073 on February 13, 2005, 05:28:50 PM
http://www.crammed.be/craworld/crw27/e/index.htm
Post by: compasspnt on February 13, 2005, 06:00:43 PM
| neve1073 wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 17:28 |
for some strange other-worldy gear you must check these people out: http://www.crammed.be/craworld/crw27/e/index.htm |
Sorry, not "different" enough. Everybody's recorded a group like this...
Post by: wwittman on February 13, 2005, 10:58:12 PM
It actually sounded great... at least as good as most 24 tracks.
And 40 tracks on one reel of 2"!!!
John Stephens once said it was about the heads... he said he spent more on heads than any other manufacturers, (like 5 times as much) which made it possible.
Post by: oldgearguy on February 14, 2005, 08:51:53 AM
In addition to the Dimension D, tc electronics made the 1210 chorus/spatial enhancer. A similar effect to the Dimension D plus more.
A nice delay that isn't mentioned much is the Bel BD-80. Very musical sounding delay. Kind of a poor-man's PCM-42.
Publison had a couple of interesting pieces (if you can keep them running). The DHM 89 B2 delay/pitch shifter and the IM-90 reverb/effects unit. The DHM could loop or reverse loop a sound and you can change the start/end points of the loop with dedicated knobs.
Senneheiser VSM-201 vocoder. More than just Kraftwerk in a box, it's great for processing just about anything.
Gerd Schulte Compact Phasing 'A' - Tangerine Dream in a box phaser.
Tom M.
Post by: j.hall on February 14, 2005, 10:15:22 AM
not sure of it's vintage but i'm guessing somewhere between the 50's and 60's.....maybe earlier.
no power cord.
the thing weighs a ton. barrier strip I/O. huge trannies on the input and output, the signal goes into a "control box" inbetween each trannie.
i took it apart to see just what it was doing passively. BLACK EPOXY!!!!!!!!!!!!! whatever is in there is the coolest sounding circuit for kick and bass.
i haven't unpatched from kick drums in months.
whatever goes in comes out absolutely crushed (in a great way) and there is some EQ'ing going on. i ran pink noise through it, with an RTA on the output. it had a bump at 60Hz, another one at 250, and a third ar 2k
it just sounds insane.
i have a rack of four Sphere 3 band parametric EQ's (with space for 4 more if i can find them). an API type sound but different.
i use them all the time.
two Boss RPH-10's. half rack space phasers. the operating level is low (-10), but these units are pretty cool. sort of a trashy phaser. they have a "buss out" on the rear, that you can hook together so each unit will phase together. each buss jack has an invert switch next to it, so you can invert one unit and have them run exatly opposite each other as well.....
Post by: Barry Hufker on February 14, 2005, 10:29:07 AM
Barry
http://www.larking.com/tlc_vintage.htm
Post by: nuke rockne on February 14, 2005, 10:49:51 AM
Post by: Phillip Graham on February 14, 2005, 10:58:14 AM
| compasspnt wrote on Sat, 12 February 2005 02:12 |
I thought it might be interesting to see what oddball pieces of gear people are using, or have used at one time... I will start by mentioning a few I have, that can really come in handy at times: •LOFT 450-An analogue, bucket brigade delay/modulation device that is very cool on electric guitars. Made in probably the late 70's-early 80's. I have two, and used one this week... Best to all, Terry |
Hey Terry, just as a curiosity, the LOFT was designed by a fellow named John Roberts who went on to design a wide variety of products for Peavey. John is quite active on the live sound forum side of Prosoundweb.
Post by: Fig on February 14, 2005, 12:09:21 PM
Strangest? In a word "SCAMP".
Terry, seems you're into modulation devices. Excellent. Here's some of the oddities around our place.
How about a Countryman Phase Shifter? I think its Type 96, not the 968. Its over a half rack width and more than a rack space high. Corny, but cool.
Of course the Eventide Instant Phaser (have two!). Use it all the time: vox, gts, highhats (think Kashmir). LFO based, envelope triggered, manual and remote control of the sweep. Lush!
We also have the rackmount of the Moog 12-Stage Phaser (not the moogerfooger!). Any phaser with a switch that says "motor start" is good in my book.
We also have the reverred Mutron Bi-Phase with Opti-Pedal. The most flexible dual phaser. Use it as two, use it in stereo, chain one into another. Control of almost any parameter via the rocker pedal. Devine.
A really old phaser from Systech (4000B?). Can't remember the number off hand, foot pedal control of the sweep, plus remote on/off.
We also use the Eventide Instant Flanger (have two).
The most "otherworldy" piece of kit is the FREQue from DACs. A stereo ringmodulator that has a special mode (FREQ Mode). Quite unlike anything you have heard before, I'm certain. Good for percussion and guitar solos.
I also use a bizzare EchoPlex called the Groupmaster (its in my Avatar). A four-channel mixer with a tape loop to boot. Intended as a PA head with delay? I can't even imagine. I like to use the sound-on-sound feature, but of course tape delay of any sort is pretty neat! Noisy as hell but one of a kind sound. The largest VU meter in the place.
An original Boss CE-1 and DM-1 - thanks Roland for getting this effect thing off the ground. Also have a strange Leslie simulator called a Revo-30 from Roland - good luck finding one!
Let's see, the Yamaha E1010 analog delay, a couple Effectrons from Deltalabs and a 4 second version called Echotron.
Anybody remember UREI LA-5s? I love a device that says Audio Leveler right on the front panel. Agressive but sooooo important to have around.
What else? Oh yeah - The LevelLock from Shure. Seems everytime engineers come in and look at the dynamics rack (over 40 spaces!) they always call that one out - strange for certain.
We got plenty of synths to run your audio through if you're into that. Oberheim SEMs (total of four), MiniMoog Model-D and even a pair (!) of Korg MS-50s.
Y'all make fun of the Cooper Time Cube, but there was a time when that was the best stereo piano sound available. Primitive, sure, but pretty inventive.
I found this neat site you may not be aware of regarding effects devices some very rare and unworldly:
http://www.modezero.com/
and also this extensive, yet incomplete:
http://www.effectsdatabase.com/index.html
Enjoy!
Hey what about mics or speakers? Anybody got somethin' wierd goin' on there??
Osci-later,
Thom "Fig" Fiegle
Post by: Fibes on February 14, 2005, 12:41:09 PM
The MXR Mini Limiters, auto Flangers and auto phasers rock!
The Orban "stereoizer" (don't recall the name) was always interesting for things other than stereoizing.
Post by: Phil on February 14, 2005, 03:28:15 PM
| Fibes wrote on Mon, 14 February 2005 09:41 |
The MXR Mini Limiters, auto Flangers and auto phasers rock! The Orban "stereoizer" (don't recall the name) was always interesting for things other than stereoizing. |
Dammit Fibes, I was just about to mention both of those!
I have four of the Mini-Limiters in my rack, and two 245E Orban Stereo Synthesizers. I'll hook the Orbans up L/R, and the other one R/L. They make great panning devices, and they are all mono compatible. And yes, the MXRs do rock!
Phil
Post by: zmix on February 14, 2005, 05:17:15 PM
How about more obscure stuff?
Has anyone ever used the AMS 'Tape Phase Simulator' ? It is somewhat like the Eventide Instant Flanger, but shorter delay times. Very popular in the late 1970s (Gary Numan's "Replicas", for example). I have encountered them in the UK and in France, but not in the US...
Post by: strawberrius on February 14, 2005, 10:09:41 PM
i have a custom piece built in around 1993 called the "zwicky box"
it originally had a 1/4" in and out and 1 knob (which i always left on 100%) but the knob broke and "zwicky" axed the knob and internally set it at 100%.
this box was my bass sound for years. it is a super LO end adder to an otherwise sterile DI bass sound. somewhere between compression & sub woofish EQ. playing this thru a Peavey TNT100 was KIKASS live!
designed and built by this forum's zmix, maybe he could shed some light on what exactly this thing does... i believe there are only 2 or 3 out there.
Post by: Fletcher on February 17, 2005, 02:31:37 PM
I don't know why you don't dig the Cooper Time Cube... I really think they may be one of the coolest things ever invented. You had two sides with two different decay times [one was abot 14ms, the other about 16ms] with a frequency response of like 400Hz to about 4kHz... so you could add one side to the other for an overall of around 30ms [but with kind of a verbish quality in some half assed regard] or use it as like a Haas thing split at 14 and 16. The trick with those is to bring up the return to where you can hear it then back off the send a bit so you can't hear the return... but you notice it big time if you mute the FX returns.
Post by: oldgearguy on February 18, 2005, 06:03:25 AM
| zmix wrote on Mon, 14 February 2005 17:17 |
Come on people... DDLs, Dimension Ds, these are not "Strange Other-worldly gear" this stuff is in every decent studio... How about more obscure stuff? Has anyone ever used the AMS 'Tape Phase Simulator' ? It is somewhat like the Eventide Instant Phaser, but shorter delay times. Very popular in the late 1970s (Gary Numan's "Replicas", for example). I have encountered them in the UK and in France, but not in the US... |
You mean the DM 2.20? I have a couple and they are pretty neat. They can do some surprising things to audio. I picked mine up from the UK (funky-junk and gearonline.co.uk) back when the exchange rate was better.
Post by: zmix on February 18, 2005, 09:16:51 AM
| strawberrius wrote on Mon, 14 February 2005 22:09 |
how bout this one: i have a custom piece built in around 1993 called the "zwicky box" it originally had a 1/4" in and out and 1 knob (which i always left on 100%) but the knob broke and "zwicky" axed the knob and internally set it at 100%. this box was my bass sound for years. it is a super LO end adder to an otherwise sterile DI bass sound. somewhere between compression & sub woofish EQ. playing this thru a Peavey TNT100 was KIKASS live! designed and built by this forum's zmix, maybe he could shed some light on what exactly this thing does... i believe there are only 2 or 3 out there. |
Wow, that was a while ago! It was a circuit I designed to be like a Pultec EQ into an LA-2A, but was discreet FETs and the size of a pack of Cigarettes...
Now HERE is an obscure piece of gear:
http://members.aol.com/revorecording/Pul-Al-Tec.pdf
The PUL-AL-TEC, a cross between a Pultec, and an Altec 436 limiter...
Post by: Brendan Thompson on February 18, 2005, 05:26:19 PM
| Fig wrote on Tue, 15 February 2005 04:09 |
We also have the reverred Mutron Bi-Phase |
Manny Chevrolet [pointing to object Butch Vig is holding]: And what is this?
Butch Vig: This is one of the secrets to our secret sound. This is the Mutron Biphase. We run everything through it - everything. It's fabulous.
[Billy pets Mutron Biphase.]
Seriously though - I can hear that all over "Siamese Dream". Vocals, guitars, EVERYTHING. They weren't joking.
Post by: Eccentric on February 19, 2005, 03:40:56 PM
It's a CV- and Envelope-controlled flanger from the 70s which
allows you to mix envelope control with an onboard LFO, as well as external CV sources. Frank Zappa used two of them in his huge guitar rack in the early 80s; Very unique sound and impossible to come by these days.
Also, the EARS FU2...
http://earsnyc.com/FU2.htm
Post by: RMoore on February 19, 2005, 05:10:14 PM
| Brendan Thompson wrote on Fri, 18 February 2005 23:26 |
Butch Vig: This is one of the secrets to our secret sound. This is the Mutron Biphase. We run everything through it - everything. It's fabulous. [Billy pets Mutron Biphase.] Seriously though - I can hear that all over "Siamese Dream". Vocals, guitars, EVERYTHING. They weren't joking. |
The Jamaican genius engineer / producer who I rate highly : Lee Perry used one of these (and I believe prior to the Biphase also a regular Mutron phase, DOD etc) & also seemed to run everything through it at a certain point..great sound..
Saw one for sale in Austin TX years ago & thought naw TOO expensive..
Of course now they go for 5 x more...
Click on this link & the tune 'RIVER' by Zap Pow:
http://www.pressure.co.uk/pressuresounds/catalogue/product_d etails.php?product=PS09
Classic Lee Perry Biphased mix..its great..
Horns, keyboards just a swooshin in the wind
Post by: Ross Hogarth on February 21, 2005, 12:47:13 PM
The first is called an EMT 156 compressor/limiter
this is a Pulse Width Modulation Mastering compressor that showed up in John Mellencamps studio in the mid eighties on someones suggestion.
At the time it was worth thousands of dollars and no matter how much I fucked with or re re read the manual, neither Don Gehman nor myself could make the thing do something that was worth keeping
I think in the end, it never worked correctly but we could never get Gotham Audio to give us any suggestions on how to see if it was actually broken.
One weird ass piece of gear
next is a piece of gear I still own but don't use much anymore
it is called a B.A.S.E.
Bedidini Audio Spatial Expander
This thing messed so much with phase, you had to make sure to check your use in mono because it would sound super cool wrapping around your head and then go away completely in mono
This was great for expanding reverb returns and making shit so wide it seemed to come out of the outer reaches of your speakers
Now for really messed up,
The Cyclosonics Tri Stereo Panner
This would make things go around and around or in figure 8's or back and forth in the stereo spectrum
Don Smith and I used this on a Eurythmics mix once and when it was taken in to master, the needle was jumping out of the groove and we had to remix half the record because of this box's ability to move the image but in those days if low end had a quotient to this sound the cutting head could not reproduce it
A very cool box though
by the same company that made the dyno my piano Rhodes chorus
Post by: zmix on February 21, 2005, 02:46:17 PM
| Ross Hogarth wrote on Mon, 21 February 2005 12:47 |
OK you want weird tweaky gear The first is called an EMT 156 compressor/limiter this is a Pulse Width Modulation Mastering compressor that showed up in John Mellencamps studio in the mid eighties on someones suggestion. At the time it was worth thousands of dollars and no matter how much I fucked with or re re read the manual, neither Don Gehman nor myself could make the thing do something that was worth keeping I think in the end, it never worked correctly but we could never get Gotham Audio to give us any suggestions on how to see if it was actually broken. |
When working properly a very nice limiter...
One on e-bay right now!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&i tem=3781799244&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
Post by: David Kulka on February 21, 2005, 08:08:30 PM
Post by: compasspnt on February 21, 2005, 08:40:41 PM
Post by: zmix on February 22, 2005, 09:30:47 AM
Post by: Magnet on February 23, 2005, 11:44:38 PM
It's Other-worldy and usable almost everyday. I have 3 echoplexes, 1 korg stage echo and 1 roland space echo. They are all very cool. The Korg has balanced xlr in and out.
magnet
Post by: RMoore on February 24, 2005, 07:31:30 AM
3 x Space Echo, various
2 x Echoplex
1 x WEM Copycat
1 x Dynacord
1 x Echocord S62
1 x H&H tape echo
Years ago I once recorded almost a whole album through a Space Echo RE 301,
Every overdub, keyboards, BASS, guitars..etc etc..no joke.
Sounded ok too.
Call me sick but recently I have been using lots of the LOGIC tape echo plug & the scratchy H&H as my main outboard Tape echo...
I'll break out the 'plex on guitars though still..
Still love tape echo on vox especially & guitar..
Post by: McAllister on February 24, 2005, 12:05:01 PM
Maybe a belt-driven EQ.
But that's just me.
M
Post by: JGreenslade on February 24, 2005, 01:00:27 PM
According to the excellent Mr Archut, only a small handful were built-to-order.
If you overdrive the input the distortion is wild, and guitarists seem to like it. It sounds pretty freaky when the heads start to feed-back as well.
If anyone here has experience with these unusual beasts I'd love to hear from them! I haven't seen mine for ages now as it has been sitting on a certain tech's bench awaiting rebuild, I must remember to chase him up...
Cheers,
Justin
Post by: Former Oceanway drone on February 24, 2005, 04:19:34 PM
Cheers,
Alan Tomlinson
P.S. SCAMP rack compressors were a trip, but I remember getting an "interesting" honky-tonk piano out of a Helpinstill electric grand with them.
Cheers,
Alan Tomlinson
Post by: compasspnt on February 24, 2005, 04:27:22 PM
| thermionic wrote on Thu, 24 February 2005 13:00 |
...I have attached a pic of the Telefunken tape-echo... |
Nice piece, Justin! Certainly looks like a real man's echo! Hope you get it running again.
Post by: RMoore on February 24, 2005, 05:17:41 PM
Thats a very strange other-wordly piece of gear..
http://www.loopers-delight.com/tools/vortex/vortex.html
OK - its fairly modern but I think it was so bizarre & basically unusable for most normal people that it faded away without a trace..
A failed product but very cool...
The settings have names like "bleen', 'Aerosol', 'fractal', 'sweep' 'atmosphere'
I used the Vortex so much 8-10 yrs ago it was a signature sound for a while.
It became a running joke at a friend of mine's studio to yell out in a robot voice 'VORTEX'....I guess you had to be there..
You could get some cool ping pong type delays, with bizarre polyrhythms and strange phasey type effects...what was great was the MORPH feature and tempo tap, so in a flash you could get some strange textures whizzing around...
I really like that its non static & always subtly changing what its doing..
Definitely has its own unique sound.
We used them all over a couple of Legendary Pink Dots psychedelic rock albums back then too..very trippy man..
I have 2 in the racks still, but hardly use them these days..
Getting old and conservative I guess
Post by: cgc on February 24, 2005, 10:04:41 PM
| zmix wrote on Mon, 21 February 2005 13:46 | ||
When working properly a very nice limiter... One on e-bay right now! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&i tem=3781799244&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT |
Even closer to 'home' for Terry:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2 3793&item=7303023656&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
I've been holding out for one of the 240 gold foil reverbs...
Post by: John McEntire on February 25, 2005, 03:54:39 AM
Something new that I can't live without is the inductor based SND stereo fixed filter bank. Check it: http://www.s-n-d.com/fb14se.html
Cheers,
John
Post by: SingSing on February 25, 2005, 04:38:47 AM
Speaking of filterbanks...I've got one of the Sherman Quad Modular Filterbanks [QMF] that I would say stems from a different universe. As the name implies, it's basically 4 filterbanks built into one box.
From the website...
"The 4 filterbanks have a separate input (i.e. you can plug in 4 different sound sources into the 4 different filterbanks, so actually it's some kind of weird mixing desk), or you can link them all together (i.e. when 1 input is used, you can process the source through all 4 filterbanks, and then you may have a filter slope of 96dB...)"
Needless to say, this beast absolutely destroys everything it touches.
Stefan
Post by: RMoore on February 25, 2005, 05:35:17 AM
| John McEntire wrote on Fri, 25 February 2005 09:54 |
Maybe not so other-worldly, but the ITA (aka Wilkinson) LA-1B is a fantastic 6386 vari-mu comp/limiter. Anyone else have experience with this beast? |
Maybe this is the same thing: I once tried some compressor/limiters for sale at a guys place here in Holland years ago & he said one was an LA-1...
An earlier version of the LA2A according to him..
looked cosmetically like the LA-2A as far as I could tell..
FWIW - I tried out an Altec 436, Altec 1591A, Telefunken U73b, and the LA-1,
The LA-1 was by far the coolest, literally everything we ran into it came out sounding like a 'record'..very smooth...very grand..very magical dare I say.
very appealing & left the others in the dust.
He was in the process of selling it for $$ to someone in the UK I recall...
More than I could afford at that time anyway..
Anyway, that was a euphoric compressor experience...
The same kind of LA-1?
Post by: RMoore on February 25, 2005, 05:56:54 AM
| John McEntire wrote on Fri, 25 February 2005 09:54 |
Something new that I can't live without is the inductor based SND stereo fixed filter bank. Check it: http://www.s-n-d.com/fb14se.html Cheers, John |
Looks interesting - did you check out their 16 step sequencer?
Is it funky?
Cheers,
Ryan
Post by: RMoore on February 25, 2005, 06:21:20 AM
Another way to achieve strange and other Worldly sounds is to run your audio through an EMS Synthi A..the little suitcase synth..
One guy had one in the Legendary Pink Dots & I loved how it just mangled whatever you ran into it...with a bit of ring mod..
very bizarre and outerspace..
Post by: RMoore on February 25, 2005, 06:30:31 AM
Those things are INCREDIBLE!
OK, getting a bit off topic from the original point I guess,
but for true sound warpage and sound design nothing comes close...
http://www.grmtools.org/
Amazing..
I 1st heard them at a friends place - demonstrated a drum loop going in one end and coming out the other sounding like a jungle..
not 'jungle' music but literally like a field recording of a jungle with animal-like noises, parrots etc..WTF!
Extreme noticable difference!!
I was using them quite a bit a while ago when I was working in OS9 but haven't gotten the OSX versions happening yet..
BUT NOW I WILL.
Damn, I can't believe I forgot about the GRM TOOLS vibe..
I need some of that again
Post by: Fibes on February 25, 2005, 09:53:10 AM
| Ryan Moore wrote on Fri, 25 February 2005 06:30 |
OH - and YET another absolutely INSANE piece of 'gear' has to be the GRM TOOLS plugins from GRM.. Those things are INCREDIBLE! OK, getting a bit off topic from the original point I guess, but for true sound warpage and sound design nothing comes close... http://www.grmtools.org/ |
I like them a lot, too bad they crash the hell out of my system when i try to use them in OSX. Since i need a wrapper, they really don't care to make them work...
Post by: Fig on February 25, 2005, 01:26:51 PM
| Ryan Moore wrote on Thu, 24 February 2005 16:17 |
The Lexicon Vortex! Thats a very strange other-wordly piece of gear.. |
Indeed. Good one! I forgot about that. I record a guitar player that filled the user bank with custom tweaks (no easy task! Horrible interface, but VERY powerful).
The morphing capabilities between one sound effect and another was very cool. He used it going into almost EVERY bridge in EVERY song he wrote. Controlled it with a pedal.
Great MIDI implementation too, for us geeks.
I saw that show about the Pumpkins where Vig gave props to his Bi-Phase. I have to store mine out of the control room, or I DO put everything through it
Another strange one is the talkback mic on Amek Angelas. Attached
Post by: antti on February 25, 2005, 06:36:47 PM
| John McEntire wrote on Fri, 25 February 2005 08:54 |
Maybe not so other-worldly, but the ITA (aka Wilkinson) LA-1B is a fantastic 6386 vari-mu comp/limiter. Anyone else have experience with this beast? John |
I have Gates Sta-Level copy done by English gentleman called Rob Flinn.
Sounds nice and impresses my clients every single time. It's another
6386 based vari-mu design. Great value for moneys. Weights a ton.. http://www.robflinn.eurobell.co.uk/stalevel.htm
| Ryan Moore wrote on Fri, 25 February 2005 11:21 |
Ahh - its all coming back to me now: Another way to achieve strange and other Worldly sounds is to run your audio through an EMS Synthi A..the little suitcase synth.. |
All synths (especially modular stuff) will do wonders. Filters, distortion, ring modulators, dark spring reverbs, phasers, fixed filterbanks, vocoders.... I have Doepfer A100 I've been building up for last 9 years. Very cool, affordable, built like a tank and usable too
Others;
Studio I used to work for had this Vortex 4-1 tube mixer that was
really cool for overloading drums. Very different to anything else I've used.
Same studio also has Neve 1057 pre/eq modules. Mic pre is ok-ish but the eq
is weird. It's a germanium transistor design. High shelf is completely over the top. Same with low shelf (to a point that it starts self-oscillating).
Valley People Dynamite lunch box. Kind of a studio standard but not many people seem to use them. Over the top squash box. Also great for guitar solos.
Tons of pedals.. From drastic to plastic to spastik.
NI Reaktor. Lots of possibilities to tweak sounds and waste time.
Some of it can be usable too. Has it's own sound. Nice for pseudo stereo fx.
My H3000 basically..
Post by: nother on February 27, 2005, 08:26:34 AM
"for some strange other-worldy gear you must check these people out:
http://www.crammed.be/craworld/crw27/e/index.htm "
Truly some of the most inspiring music I've heard in a while.
My pick for gear is a toss up between the pile of crap Oktava dynamics I picked up at a flea market (many of which really put the microphonic back into microphone) and the dbx 188 that seems to self-oscillate in expand mode.
Post by: RMoore on February 27, 2005, 05:21:16 PM
| compasspnt wrote on Mon, 14 February 2005 00:00 | ||
Sorry, not "different" enough. Everybody's recorded a group like this... |
I missed this the 1st time round..
Wow - pretty crazy jams..love all the distortion and the wooden mic!
That mixing desk looks interesting - maybe DAW people could try that as a summing device to get some of the 'wood' sound in their mix...
I hear vintage wood sounds best.
I assume Terry's comment is tongue in cheek..
Or - was it the mudshark?
Post by: compasspnt on February 27, 2005, 06:19:09 PM
| Ryan Moore wrote on Sun, 27 February 2005 17:21 |
....I assume Terry's comment is tongue in cheek.. Or - was it the mudshark? |
Ryan,
Turn my original comment around backwards, and you will get the REAL message!
(redrum, krahsdum, redrum, krahsdum,......)
Post by: cgc on February 28, 2005, 08:37:46 PM
| compasspnt wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 00:12 |
That reminded me of another of my favourites, The Great British Spring reverb. I have two of them. They are about 4 feet long, made of gray PVC tubing, and have four long springs inside each. Sound great on guitars, vocals, keys, lots of things, except for percussion/drums ("boing!") |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4 1415&item=7304270832&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Is that something similar? I found some other online resources too:
http://electronics.audiopervert.com/micmix_index.htm
http://home.sprynet.com/%7Esregdorb/micmix.htm
Anyone have experience with these?
Post by: jstuart on March 02, 2005, 08:17:22 AM
A colorsound ringmodulator, actually a footpedal, squealing oddness is us, again, only for sacrificing virgins at the alter.
J
BTW, I'll post some stuff that may be of interest in "for sale" section of the marsh
Post by: jstuart on March 02, 2005, 08:36:32 AM
J
Post by: meverylame on March 04, 2005, 03:48:19 PM
Thanks guys,
Jason
P.S. Does anyone have a picture of one of his machines? I hear the tape handling is a quite a sight.
Post by: compasspnt on March 04, 2005, 04:02:36 PM
| Fenris wrote on Thu, 03 March 2005 17:37 | ||
. |
BUT LOOK! In the photo, racked under the ITA, there's a BELLARI!
Post by: compasspnt on March 04, 2005, 04:20:32 PM
| meverylame wrote on Fri, 04 March 2005 15:48 |
Would someone mind going on about John Stephens gear for a while, or just posting a link to a website? I've tried looking for information about his tape machines and the company history, but can't seem to find too much. Thanks guys, Jason P.S. Does anyone have a picture of one of his machines? I hear the tape handling is a quite a sight. |
The ones I have used all sounded great...these were 24 on 2" and 32 on 2" (I think). They definitely made a 40 track 2" machine. I think he made a 12 track 2"...if so, that would have sounded KILLER! Maybe something here: (See Chronology.pdf Attachment below.)
Terry
Now, here's a comment by Dave McNair (mcsnare) taken from a MARSH forum:
"...I have used almost EVERY model of 2" machine made. I did a jazz/fusion session one time at this funky studio in NYC that had 2 Telefunken multi-tracks. Damn things looked silly and sounded KILLER and that was at my accidentally wrong level of +9 on Ampex 456, ooops LOL. Anyway... There is quite a bit of sonic/operational differences even between different models within a basic family. e.g. an MCI JH 116 sounds very different from a JH 24, an A-80 mk III sounds VERY different from a MK IV, and so on. I'm talking like WAY more different than 888's vs AD-8000. I'm talking U47fet vs. a tube U47.
A few small disagreements: A Stephens punches in and out fine, but the whole mechanism is so clunky, it just freaks you out.
I think of M79's as very diff from M56's but both are VERY colored in a super cool way. Almost tube-like top end, so harmonically sweet, and a HUGE low end kick, especially M56's. To make things more complicated, stock M79's sound very diff from modded M79's of which almost any you will find these days are usually pretty modded. I owned a highly modded M79 and another one that was almost stock. They both sounded killer. I used to use a very modded M79 1/2" that was unbelievably good.
Ampex MM100 total headroom-less dirt balls. MM1100 I only used one and that was with dbx! I guess it was ok. MM1200, not a huge fan of these, but some people love their RnR crunch.
The Ampex ATR 124 is overall the best machine ever made, hands down. I had 3 locked together at OceanWay, once. The first time I ever heard one it was like "That sounds better than input!....Where is the fucking hiss? and we're only at +3...incredible!" Maintenance is pretty Satanic and the punch in/out takes getting used to, but they sound so fucking good you'll scream. BUT the Stephens has something VERY magical about the sound. I think I've used 4 different Stephens and each one was the bomb. I also have had some long conversations with John Stephens and the machine bears absolutely no resemblance, design wise, to any other tape machine circuit. A very unique machine that was the product of some seriously brilliant original thinking. The super tight, deep low end AND very high S/N ratio of an ATR 124 and the silky, silvery top kinda like a really good M79. My personal favorite sounding machine.
I think of Studer 827's to be much better sounding than the 820's which I always considered to be very bland. Except for the 820 1/2" which I always thought sounded great, well almost no sonic signiture at all. A80's record much better than they play back, but the punching is totally unusable. A shame cause the MK III's sound really good, if a bit noisy. A800's in general sound pretty smooth, too smooth if ya ask me, but clean and quiet with a deep but undefined low end. I have heard them hot rodded to sound snappier. I wouldn't cry if I had to use one, but I'd rather have an 827....
Many models of Scully totally rock sound-wise, but that transport sucked BIG TIME.
I always liked Otari MX-80's in a little-engine-that-could kinda way. Not very big on the bottom, but a nice extended top end. MTR-90's sound like a cheap Onkyo receiver, compared to some McIntosh separate components.
What to buy used in 2004? For my money, best combo of sound/operation/ability to fix it and get parts/going price .....would be the JH24, late model if possible. Flawless punch in/out. A clean JH24 with 16 trk heads sounds incredible.
Writing this really makes me miss tape....I don't think any body's gonna miss the "vintage" sound of Pro Tools III with an 882.. LMFBO
Dave McNair"
Post by: JGreenslade on March 05, 2005, 06:44:51 AM
Google only gets me one Cady hit, an interview with the excellent Vic Keary: http://www.unityaudio.co.uk/thermionic_culture_site/mr_therm ionic.htm
Taken from link:
| Quote: |
" I've also got a Cady 1 track machine which was made by a guy called Steve Wadey about twenty years ago. It's a peculiar design in that the record electronics are valve, while the reply and motor amps are transistor and sound bloody awful. I'm in the process of replacing all the transistor circuitry with valves means that it will soon be possible to record here without touching a transistor anywhere between the microphones and tape." |
I believe the model my associate has is a 16-track 2", and apparently Tim de Paravincini is a fan of them and can retro-fit the electronics.
Justin
Post by: meverylame on March 05, 2005, 12:42:38 PM
Thanks,
Jason
Post by: RMoore on March 06, 2005, 05:52:22 AM
| Fenris wrote on Thu, 03 March 2005 23:37 |
Extremely rare. Sylvia Massey has one. Check http://www.radiostarstudios.com/ The ITA LA-1A and LA-1B (vari-mu) are completely unrelated to the Teletronix LA-1 (opto). |
OK - thanks, wow looks neat..Nice looking bunch of stuff at that studio,
What a collection
I also thought it was strange seeing that Bellari in the racks!
Post by: David Kulka on March 06, 2005, 09:14:43 AM
Last year we serviced a Movement drum machine / sampler for him. The thing was dead and in pieces but a very talented shop tech managed to get it working like new with no documentation. It had a built in CRT monitor and a lot of strange connections and menus, many of which we never figured out. The story seems to be that Eurythmics used one on Sweet Dreams, so after Greg got it running I bought the song on iTunes, he figured out how to replicate the drum machine chorus and played along. It was great fun. The Movement is definitely strange and other-worldly, here's a photo. Anyone know more about this thing?
Post by: JGreenslade on March 06, 2005, 10:19:45 AM
BTW, If you need a schem for the UE100 monster EQ drop me a pm. They are impressive beasts!
Justin
Post by: David Kulka on March 06, 2005, 12:06:17 PM
A while back we had three of these in the shop -- an obvious photo opportunity -- so Greg took some high res digital shots. The unit on the left is the original 250, the two on the right are 251's. Forum member J.J. ended up buying the one with the big wheels.
There's an article on my website with much more info about these, for anyone who's interested. http://studioelectronics.biz/recentprojects.html
More pics to follow but this one will get us started:
Post by: David Kulka on March 06, 2005, 12:10:06 PM
Post by: David Kulka on March 06, 2005, 12:17:40 PM
Barry Blesser (past AES president and former Lexicon engineer) was part of the original design team. Here's an archived AES recording in which Barry makes some prescient comments about the industry and talks a little about the EMT project...http://www.dplay.com/aes/blesser.html
Post by: compasspnt on March 06, 2005, 12:18:34 PM
These are indeed "other-worldly" in appearance, but in my opinion, digital reverb started at the top with the 250, and has only gone downhill since (as is the case with so much in life!)
I have a 250 which I love. But it is missing some of the cool coloured plastic knob bits...is there anywhere to get these? It occasionally starts crackling, and you have to shut it down to cool for a bit to clean it up. Also, I'd love a scan of that brochure your lovely wife is holding!
And I agree that an {Other Worldly Gear} calendar would be great! We just need 11 more pix!
Julio Iglesias does a lot of work here at our studio, and the 250 is the only reverb he will use on his vocals (which is a lot of 'verb). He uses all four outputs. I've never quite understood what the four outs are good for in stereo.
Good posts!
Terry
PS: The big wheels are a good idea. These puppies are heavy!
Post by: RMoore on March 06, 2005, 12:19:42 PM
How can it be that a digital 'verb of that vintage STILL is in demand?
Whats the story as to the secret of EMT 250/251?
FWIW - I was buying an EMT240 some time ago & the seller was busy testing out an EMT 250 for a client who was on the way to buy it..
SOUNDED GREAT!
I was amazed.
Post by: RMoore on March 06, 2005, 12:24:20 PM
I bought one for +-$200 over here eons ago & it worked for about 2 weeks after a tech dropped in a couple new ics before going on tilt again.
Sounded 'ok' but not amazing..
I was never sure if it was working 100% properly..
The repair estimate was +- $1000 from BARCO in Germany..
No thanks.
Now I have some cool looking , albeit expensive rack filler..
Post by: RMoore on March 06, 2005, 12:29:54 PM
| David Kulka wrote on Sun, 06 March 2005 18:06 |
There's an article on my website with much more info about these, for anyone who's interested. http://studioelectronics.biz/scrapbook.html ] |
Sorry I can't seem to find the EMT stuff - a hint?
Thnx!
RM
Post by: David Kulka on March 06, 2005, 12:33:24 PM
Terry wrote: "I have a 250 which I love. But it is missing some of the cool coloured plastic knob bits...is there anywhere to get these? It occasionally starts crackling, and you have to shut it down to cool for a bit to clean it up. Also, I'd love a scan of that brochure your lovely wife is holding!"
On the brochure, I'll do better than that. Next time I'm at **un-named entertainment conglomerate** I'll make a copy on their zillion dollar imaging machine and then mail it to you. As for the plastic buttons, I may have some in the drawer, or perhaps someone else knows of a source. (Say, did you see my message about Beatles sleuthing, and what do you think?)
By the way, are these images too big? Slow download or causing page size problems?
Post by: JGreenslade on March 06, 2005, 02:11:05 PM
Taken from link:
| Quote: |
And in spite of all this, AND repeated warnings NOT TO BUY IT, the original Metasonix TX-1 Agonizer became the fastest-selling product in our company's history. |
Interesting marketing campaign...
Justin
Post by: compasspnt on March 06, 2005, 05:50:34 PM
Post by: dcollins on March 06, 2005, 07:03:48 PM
| David Kulka wrote on Sun, 06 March 2005 06:14 |
The Movement is definitely strange and other-worldly, here's a photo. Anyone know more about this thing? |
I saw this thing on a session around 1985 at the Record Plant on 3rd st. It was owned by producer Mike Howlett and iirc, it's based on a British PC of the era. Maybe 6809?
It was used on Flock of Seagulls and the Berlin CD "Love Life."
There was some function that was unique at the time, can't remember what...
DC
Post by: electrical on March 07, 2005, 09:35:06 AM
| thermionic wrote on Sun, 06 March 2005 14:11 |
Would "The Agonizer" qualify as strange and other-worldly? See what you think: http://www.metasonix.com/TX1.htm |
This is almost the same principle as the "Stinger" pentode fuzz built into the Garnet B.T.O. Special amplifiers.
If you recall the Bachman-Turner Overdrive classic "Taking Care of Business," then you know this sound. The designer, Gar Gilles, is a real kook, and an entertaining guy. If you're ever in Winnepeg, look him up.
Those Garnet amps were many, varied, weird and cool. The B.T.O. Special had an amazing tremelo that worked by modulating the output tubes, so the tremelo worked even if the pre-amp was overdriving. The reverb in his amps also sounded really deep and great. He made a tube overdrive module called the Herzog, which the Guess Who used for the spooky sustained guitar solo in "American Woman" -- a unique sound.
I asked him how many different models of amplifier Garnet had made over the years, and he thought about it for a minute and said, "I have no idea."
Post by: compasspnt on March 07, 2005, 11:04:41 AM
| David Kulka wrote on Sun, 06 March 2005 12:33 |
It's fixed now, but here's the link again. http://studioelectronics.biz/recentprojects.html |
David, A GREAT synopsis of what I'll call "Echo" ("Reverb" to the rest of you!) AND, you covered every truly great source of reverberation in the story. (And I'm not referring to the brief mention of plug-ins!)
| Quote: |
By the way, are these images too big? Slow download or causing page size problems? |
They were fine for me...many will probably say that the photo of your wife with the EMT's might even have been bigger!
Post by: David Kulka on March 07, 2005, 01:31:41 PM
In other words, an echo was a single slap or reflection, and reverb was an aggregate of reflections. I'm not sure how many in the industry would agree, but it's always made sense to me.
Terry, thanks for the kind words. I showed your comments to my wife, and they gave her a good laugh.
Post by: RMoore on March 07, 2005, 01:43:05 PM
| David Kulka wrote on Sun, 06 March 2005 18:33 |
Ryan -- sorry, I had linked the wrong page. It's fixed now, but here's the link again. http://studioelectronics.biz/recentprojects.html |
Thnx!
Great article,
Amazing isn't it that a 30 yr old digital reverb could still be da bomb
Post by: compasspnt on March 07, 2005, 02:19:01 PM
| Ryan Moore wrote on Mon, 07 March 2005 13:43 | ||
Thnx! Great article, Amazing isn't it that a 30 yr old digital reverb could still be da bomb |
Believe me, it truly is "da bomb" for beautiful, natural, rich reverberation. No plug that I've tried comes close....yet...but I haven't yet tried the TLL ones...
Post by: David Kulka on March 07, 2005, 02:37:20 PM
http://www.audiomedia.com/archive/reviews/us-0600/us-0600-dy natron/us-0600-dynatron.htm#information
Post by: Dave Peck on March 13, 2005, 09:16:06 PM
Whoa! If you click on the box for weird rare gear - the japanese tabletop guitar amp - The guitarist in the first band I was ever in had one of these damn things! It was 1973, I was thirteen & had just bought my first synth (an Arp Odyssey - I mowed a lot of lawns that summer to pay for it).
That guitar amp was horrible! Everybody in the band told the guitarist to get a better amp or the bass player was going to beat him up after school.
Post by: Steve G on March 21, 2005, 12:14:21 AM
We had one of these on loan here at Capitol about a year or so ago. It sounded ok, no comparison to our real EMT250's. Problem is it has no analog I/O, just digital.