Post by: faganking on January 19, 2011, 12:03:45 PM
(I tried using search for this. It wouldn't go past the first page. Said 'page can't be found...and there were 15?)
Post by: zmix on January 19, 2011, 12:07:20 PM
Post by: compasspnt on January 19, 2011, 12:10:31 PM
But why would you mix to 1/2", and THEN dump BACK to Protools?
If it's 1/2", then take that to mastering.
All the better, K-DSD.
Post by: Gold on January 19, 2011, 12:13:22 PM
Post by: faganking on January 19, 2011, 12:13:48 PM
| compasspnt wrote on Wed, 19 January 2011 12:10 |
NB: Also mix to a KORG DSD, then compare all three. But why would you mix to 1/2", and THEN dump BACK to Protools? If it's 1/2", then take that to mastering. All the better, K-DSD. |
Why go back to Protools? My thoughts exactly!
Post by: kats on January 19, 2011, 12:30:59 PM
| Gold wrote on Wed, 19 January 2011 11:13 |
They are used to people not wanting to buy a reel of tape. That's why they recommend that. If you want to buy tape I'm sure they'd be happy to have you walk out with reels...They are friends so I know. |
That's the one thing I find to be the easiest sell, the 1/2" tape. 2" OTOH, not so easy. I can usually convince the client to buy the 1/2" reel because it is future proof if a newer technology comes around and that you would be able to benefit from a re-master. The Beatles just made a sh*tload of money on that
It depends on how the artist feels about the future I guess...
Post by: Bill Mueller on January 19, 2011, 12:51:51 PM
| compasspnt wrote on Wed, 19 January 2011 12:10 |
NB: Also mix to a KORG DSD, then compare all three. But why would you mix to 1/2", and THEN dump BACK to Protools? If it's 1/2", then take that to mastering. All the better, K-DSD. |
+1,
I mixed on an A80 for twenty years and love the machine. I still have a B67 and covet every A80 I see out there. But know that it does change the signal. For certain music, the silky tones of a 1/2" A80 are perfect, for others not so much.
Bill
Post by: OOF! on January 19, 2011, 01:05:13 PM
that's the format I have: A80 RC 1/2" into the Korg DSD. It's pretty unbeatable.
If not using the DSD, I'd definitely take the 1/2" mixes to mastering. Regardless of sampling rate, you lose a lot once you send it into the computer. Really depressing.
I'm in town- you're welcome to drop by with some tracks and test it out for yourself. PM me.
David
Post by: faganking on January 19, 2011, 01:10:38 PM
BTW: They said they use a reel and keep going over it. I emailed yesterday and said just order me my own reel. It's less than $100 for christ sake.
Post by: zmix on January 19, 2011, 01:35:40 PM
| faganking wrote on Wed, 19 January 2011 13:10 |
I haven't mixed to tape in a long time. How many songs can I get on a reel? BTW: They said they use a reel and keep going over it. I emailed yesterday and said just order me my own reel. It's less than $100 for christ sake. |
At 15ips you will get 33-35 minutes on a 2500' reel... and around 17 minutes at 30ips
Post by: faganking on January 19, 2011, 01:38:20 PM
| zmix wrote on Wed, 19 January 2011 13:35 | ||
At 15ips you will get 33-35 minutes on a 2500' reel... and around 17 minutes at 30ips |
Thanks Chuck. That is exactly what I would have guessed.
Post by: thedoc on January 20, 2011, 12:05:57 AM
Post by: Jean Taxis on January 20, 2011, 02:54:27 PM
Post by: compasspnt on January 20, 2011, 03:12:32 PM
| Jean Taxis wrote on Thu, 20 January 2011 14:54 |
And if you plan to keep the tape, don't forget to print tones test... |
Ah, how soon the world forgets...
Post by: OOF! on January 20, 2011, 06:18:40 PM
Even when I switched to digital.
I get my old 335 plugged into a blackface Super Reverb and wail away for 3 minutes straight.
Post by: compasspnt on January 20, 2011, 09:46:29 PM
How well can you hold a 1k?
Post by: Nicky D on January 21, 2011, 12:52:00 AM
Post by: Fenris Wulf on January 21, 2011, 01:26:08 AM
| zmix wrote on Wed, 19 January 2011 18:35 | ||
At 15ips you will get 33-35 minutes on a 2500' reel... and around 17 minutes at 30ips |
It's exactly 33 1/3 minutes, just like the RPM of an LP. Easy to remember.
Post by: John Bailey on January 21, 2011, 03:31:07 AM
I did a similar thing on a record a few years ago where we had 3 options at mastering...
To Mastering, we brought:
1. Straight off the mix bus (in-the-box 24Bit-96kHz)
2. The 1/2 masters (ATR-102)
3. The Record-Repro captured back in via nice A/D's (no print through)
In the end, we ended up going with #1 (straight off the digital mix bus). The Mastering Engineer felt, and we agreed after doing some listening, that the analog (and of course the A/D capture of the 1/2") felt like it was down a generation, and didn't sound as good. If you feel like the mixes are feeling a little harsh, the the 1/2 might just be the ticket, but when you A-B them, the difference in depth and detail is quite apparent.
If you're mixing on a desk, make sure you capture the 2-mix with a really nice A/D, or better yet, take Terry's suggestion and try to score one of those Korg DSD recorders. I still think DSD is the closest thing to the real audio.
Still though, if you're going to print to 1/2", there's no better long-term archival medium really... Well worth buying the tape...
Just some thoughts,
Cheers,
JB
Post by: faganking on January 21, 2011, 11:18:24 AM
From Scott Hull:
"When given the choice between Analog Tape and a good digital mix, the producer and I sometimes choose the hi res digital to master from as I have a very "Analog " sounding chain and can get that soft / warm / glow without the negatives from tape.
That said, you can't replicate tape and when recorded carefully its "wow". It really depends most on the machine and the care of the engineer."
Post by: mgod on January 21, 2011, 11:23:58 AM
1" = better.
Also, bear this in mind:
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/file-not-found-the-re cord-industrys-digital-storage-crisis-20101207
Was it me, I'd be rolling one of Tim DeP's 1" Studers into Abbey Road and archiving all them Fabs masters.
Post by: Edward Vinatea on January 21, 2011, 11:43:11 AM
IMO/E, in some situations the mixing to tape is a desirable step. Mainly when working all ITB and sounding somewhat 'digital/sterile'.
Otherwise, I don't see the point. For those mixing ITB at 44.1kHz/24 bit; it has never disappointed me and still beats working with the best 1/2 inch tape recorders, hands down. Naturally some engineer folks will object to this, hence my initial comments.
Regards,
Edward
| faganking wrote on Wed, 19 January 2011 12:03 |
On January 24th I begin mixing a record at 'Cowboy Technical Services' in Brooklyn. They have recommended I mix to their STUDER A-80 RC 1/2" 2 track which they then put back into PT at 96k and that's what goes to mastering. I've never done this. What thinks ye! (I tried using search for this. It wouldn't go past the first page. Said 'page can't be found...and there were 15?) |
Post by: faganking on January 21, 2011, 11:58:52 AM
I'm going to bring Scott an off the board and a print back.
Thanks for the input guys. I can't wait to mix this project. It was recorded in a great room with great mics and amazing preamps. No EQ or compression. I plan on leaving it pretty wide open with a lot of dynamics. This is not going to be a modern slammed record.
Post by: wwittman on January 22, 2011, 01:18:11 PM
Seems to me one would want the clear comparison of a direct into digital mix and a direct to tape mix.
By transferring the tape into digital at mastering, you in essence create that 'print back' for whatever it's worth.
Post by: CWHumphrey on January 22, 2011, 04:26:50 PM
| wwittman wrote on Sat, 22 January 2011 10:18 |
I still don't get why you'd "print back" Seems to me one would want the clear comparison of a direct into digital mix and a direct to tape mix. By transferring the tape into digital at mastering, you in essence create that 'print back' for whatever it's worth. |
Exactly.
If you're going to go to the effort to print to tape, bring the tapes to mastering.
Scott is setup to playback 1/2".
For emphasis, print tones! 1k, 10K, 15K, 100, 50Hz.
Cheers,
Post by: Bill Mueller on January 22, 2011, 06:53:08 PM
| CWHumphrey wrote on Sat, 22 January 2011 16:26 | ||
Exactly. If you're going to go to the effort to print to tape, bring the tapes to mastering. Scott is setup to playback 1/2". For emphasis, print tones! 1k, 10K, 15K, 100, 50Hz. Cheers, |
And don't forget the tones.
Bill
Post by: faganking on January 22, 2011, 07:17:57 PM
To reiterate: This 'print back' thing was not MY idea, but rather suggested by the studio. Thanks again for all of the input guys.
Post by: wwittman on January 22, 2011, 08:14:33 PM
if you do a parallel print directly into the DAW, you have, in essence, a safety alternative
if you do it as a 'print back', then any drop outs or flaws are simply copied.
Post by: faganking on January 22, 2011, 08:20:50 PM
Post by: bushwick on January 22, 2011, 11:35:16 PM
Have fun. Hope it goes well.
Best,
j
Post by: djwaudio on January 24, 2011, 03:10:18 AM
I still get a little bit of tape to master from, but they are always mixing on an analog board...
Test tones please!