Post by: breathe on September 11, 2010, 06:40:01 PM
http://www.yamahacommercialaudiosystems.com/product_detail.p hp?prodID=1034
and this:
http://www.eventide.com/AudioDivision/Products/Harmonizers/E clipse.aspx
Has anyone used either of these? Can you give any feedback?
Best,
Nicholas
Post by: Otitis Media on September 11, 2010, 10:20:10 PM
Post by: rankus on September 12, 2010, 12:27:01 AM
We have an Eclipse here. Pretty awesome!
Post by: marcel on September 12, 2010, 12:40:44 AM
| rankus wrote on Sat, 11 September 2010 21:27 |
We have an Eclipse here. Pretty awesome! |
Ditto.
Post by: L Ron on September 12, 2010, 01:08:32 AM
Post by: tom eaton on September 12, 2010, 06:42:54 AM
My favorite outboard verbs:
Lexicon M300 and PCM60, Sony DRE-S777 and R7, Yamaha ProR3 and REV7, and Demeter RealVerb. None of them sounds anything like the others, which I like!
I am going to try to build a plate at some point, too.
In the box, I have found the Waves Ren Verb to be way better than it should be.
t
Post by: Jim Williams on September 12, 2010, 09:48:57 AM
Reverbs are of 2 classes, those that hide well behind the dry track and those that stand out.
Effect reverbs panned right don't have the same tone as the dry signal panned left. Most Japanese reverbs are of this class. Hiding reverbs do have the same tone but diffused. The M7 is head of that class.
One cheapo I really like is the Lexicon Reflex. It's very dense, smooth and clear. It has all the parameter adjustments on the front panel and they cost a hundred bucks used, or less.
Post by: meverylame on September 12, 2010, 11:09:02 AM
Post by: Tim Halligan on September 12, 2010, 03:04:57 PM
| meverylame wrote on Sun, 12 September 2010 23:09 |
And you can get them fixed now. |
Really?
I thought they were made predominantly of unobtainium...
Cheers,
Tim
Post by: Phil Mayor on September 12, 2010, 05:05:46 PM
It doesn't have the lushness of a vintage Lexicon or Bricasti but I really like it on drums..I find it fits in a mix much better maybe because of that lack of body and lushness..if that makes any sense?
Post by: Kurt Foster on September 12, 2010, 05:56:55 PM
If you have that you really don't need the latest and greatest. A decent or even a bad recording of a great performance recorded for release will sound better than the best recording of a hack song and musicians recorded for vanities sake. Wouldn't you prefer to gaze at a lo res pic of a beautiful sun set than a hi res pic of a puss riddled turd pile?
All reverbs are artificial. Springs, plates and digital verbs all have limitations and can sound horrific if mis used. Which artificial sound is the best is subjective and you will never get a conclusive answer that all agree on.
If you are really serious then build some reverb chambers. Then you can ask everyone "What's the best mics and speakers for my echo chamber?" What did people do before there was "the intra-net" to get information?
For cheap verbs I like Lexicon 60's 70' 80's SPX 90's are ok too. Even a cheap Alesis Midi-Verb will work if the subject matter is up to snuff.
Post by: Otitis Media on September 12, 2010, 06:10:48 PM
| Kurt Foster wrote on Sun, 12 September 2010 17:56 |
Too much emphasis on gear and not enough emphasis on content makes for bad records. Great gear doesn't make great recordings. You have to have a reason to record something decent in the first place. Recording for the sake of recording in my experience, never works out. If you have that you really don't need the latest and greatest. A decent or even a bad recording of a great performance recorded for release will sound better than the best recording of a hack song and musicians recorded for vanities sake. Wouldn't you prefer to gaze at a lo res pic of a beautiful sun set than a hi res pic of a puss riddled turd pile? All reverbs are artificial. Springs, plates and digital verbs all have limitations and can sound horrific if mis used. Which artificial sound is the best is subjective and you will never get a conclusive answer that all agree on. If you are really serious then build some reverb chambers. Then you can ask everyone "What's the best mics and speakers for my echo chamber?" What did people do before there was "the intra-net" to get information? For cheap verbs I like Lexicon 60's 70' 80's SPX 90's are ok too. Even a cheap Alesis Midi-Verb will work if the subject matter is up to snuff. |
Yep.
SPX90s are noisy, in my experience. I'm tellin' ya - "reamp" your tracks in a REAL space. It's so much cooler.
Or build your own chambers like Kurt said.
Post by: breathe on September 12, 2010, 07:36:24 PM
Nicholas
Post by: Wireline on September 12, 2010, 08:03:22 PM
| Quote: |
People who disagree with that should not be posting on this forum. |
Well then.
Before you delete my post, please at least give a bit of credence to the notion that the perfect note takes precedence EVERY TIME over the perfect reverb...without the perfect note, the rest is moot.
Post by: jetbase on September 12, 2010, 08:04:19 PM
Nicholas, you could also have a look at TC Electronic hardware reverbs. I use the M2000 all the time & I like it.
http://www.tcelectronic.com/studioreverb.asp
Post by: Gio on September 12, 2010, 08:23:02 PM
| jetbase wrote on Sun, 12 September 2010 20:04 |
I agree, gear is important. Not any more important than songs, performances, instruments & acoustics, but it is our job as engineers to take the responsibility of ensuring that the gear does not hold back the potential of anything else. Nicholas, you could also have a look at TC Electronic hardware reverbs. I use the M2000 all the time & I like it. http://www.tcelectronic.com/studioreverb.asp |
I agree. But at what point do we stop chasing tail and get it done? Eventually we have to work with what we have, and not let that hold back the potential of the tune. How many have an unlimited gear budget?
That said, I rather like the TC M3000 I have kicking around....
Post by: rphilbeck on September 12, 2010, 10:34:05 PM
Any thoughts on the UAD Software EMT 250?
Post by: Tom L on September 12, 2010, 10:44:28 PM
I like the simplicity of the controls but have not had an opportunity yet to hear one first hand (ear).
Post by: breathe on September 13, 2010, 01:16:10 AM
Nicholas
Post by: Kurt Foster on September 13, 2010, 02:15:01 AM
| breathe wrote on Sun, 12 September 2010 16:36 |
I'm tired of people saying it's all about the song and the gear doesn't matter. FUCK that! I am recording good artists now and I want my records to sound the bomb, and gear matters. There are guitar sounds I'm getting with my API 527's that I could have never got before I had them. I'm really digging the Distressors with the British mod. Gear is important! People who disagree with that should not be posting on this forum. Nicholas |
I am happy for you that you are enjoying your gear. Good for you.
Sometimes great gear is wasted if the content sucks and I for one would rather hear an artist with talent and chops recorded with a radio shack mic and a Behringer preamp onto an midi disc than a no talent hack /time is dragging ass song recorded with Neves and Neummans API's , Distressors onto a Studer or MCI or whatever. The music comes first. Sorry there's no magic tuning or magic bullet.
I am a proponent of great equipment. I really dislike cheap gear for a number of reasons. But sometimes you can get the cart before the horse you rode in on.
| Quote: |
"Don't ask what I think of you, I might not give you the answer that you want me to." |
Post by: Tomas Danko on September 13, 2010, 06:16:32 AM
| breathe wrote on Sat, 11 September 2010 23:40 |
I have been looking at this: http://www.yamahacommercialaudiosystems.com/product_detail.p hp?prodID=1034 and this: http://www.eventide.com/AudioDivision/Products/Harmonizers/E clipse.aspx Has anyone used either of these? Can you give any feedback? Best, Nicholas The Eclipse has a beautiful and lush sound. I'm just not sure that's what you're looking for. Use Altiverb or similar and download a bunch of impulse responses taken from all these reverberation units, have a go and see if anyone floats your boat. Cheers, Danko |
Post by: PookyNMR on September 13, 2010, 02:07:53 PM
For OTB, I like a lot of the reverbs in the Ensoniq DP/4. Those can be had for cheap now on e-bay.
Post by: C.Cash on September 13, 2010, 02:17:28 PM
| meverylame wrote on Sun, 12 September 2010 10:09 |
I just got a STEAL on a pair of Lexicon 224s. They're jamming. And you can get them fixed now. Buy'em while they're cheap! |
Hi, who or where is fixing them?
Thanks.
Post by: zakco on September 13, 2010, 11:40:46 PM
| rphilbeck wrote on Sun, 12 September 2010 19:34 |
Any thoughts on the UAD Software EMT 250? |
I have never compared it to hardware (nor do I care to...), but I find the UAD 250 REALLY useful.
Post by: cgc on September 17, 2010, 08:43:10 AM
| C.Cash wrote on Mon, 13 September 2010 13:17 | ||
Hi, who or where is fixing them? Thanks. |
I would also like to know a good Lexicon repair place.
Post by: Nick Sevilla on September 18, 2010, 10:34:23 PM
| breathe wrote on Sun, 12 September 2010 16:36 |
I'm tired of people saying it's all about the song and the gear doesn't matter. FUCK that! I am recording good artists now and I want my records to sound the bomb, and gear matters. There are guitar sounds I'm getting with my API 527's that I could have never got before I had them. I'm really digging the Distressors with the British mod. Gear is important! People who disagree with that should not be posting on this forum. Nicholas |
But the mix you sent us for critique sounds HORRIBLE.
And that was before you pushed the record button...
Really Nicholas, you need to learn to stop posting so much, and start learning how to use the equipment you actually have, instead of masturbating on this forum about stuff you know nothing about.
You are one of the reasons I don't come over here nearly as often as before. Like 10% of the postings are crap from you.
I wonder why the moderators decided to let you back in. I guess they like your kind of kooky entertainment.
Cheers
Post by: breathe on September 19, 2010, 01:24:53 AM
Nicholas
| Nick Sevilla wrote on Sat, 18 September 2010 19:34 | ||
But the mix you sent us for critique sounds HORRIBLE. And that was before you pushed the record button... Really Nicholas, you need to learn to stop posting so much, and start learning how to use the equipment you actually have, instead of masturbating on this forum about stuff you know nothing about. You are one of the reasons I don't come over here nearly as often as before. Like 10% of the postings are crap from you. I wonder why the moderators decided to let you back in. I guess they like your kind of kooky entertainment. Cheers |
Post by: breathe on September 19, 2010, 01:41:02 AM
Nicholas
Post by: QUEEF BAG on September 19, 2010, 02:04:14 AM
work with better and better musicians, you learn to appreciate
more types of music. and maybe even like them.
most studio people i know can listen & enjoy well crafted, and well done music of most any genre.
Post by: CWHumphrey on September 19, 2010, 02:20:03 AM
Try this:
Set up an aux. send connected to a powered speaker and put the speaker in the bath tub (or shower) and hang two mics off axis of the speaker.
I think you'll agree that as a snare verb, this has more depth than any of the digital crap that has been made in the last 30 years!
If you really like the sound of what your getting, shoot an impulse response and use in your favorite convolution reverb.
Use your imagination.
Cheers,
Post by: tom eaton on September 19, 2010, 08:29:52 AM
I hope you're not suggesting that having actual "moving air" is part of making a record sound real. I think that's outrageous and bad advice. Everyone knows that taking things direct and then using plugins is the way all of the best classic records were made.
Thank god Geoff Emerick didn't have the internet at his disposal.
t
Post by: Otitis Media on September 19, 2010, 09:38:56 AM
| tom eaton wrote on Sun, 19 September 2010 08:29 |
Thank god Geoff Emerick didn't have the internet at his disposal. t |
Pfft, Geoff Emerick. He's admitted to micing the edge of Ringo's cymbals. That's not what they teach at Full Sail. Besides, everyone knows Ringo is a crappy drummer, I mean, he doesn't even have Roto-toms or a double bass pedal. There's just ONE drum solo from him on all the Beatles albums. Meh
The above was tongue in cheek.
Carter's advice is great. Reverb that's beautiful and interesting doesn't have to be expensive. Read back where I said that my favorite "hardware" reverbs are actual rooms. You can take your mix with you on a laptop and use a powered speaker to excite the room.
Post by: Kurt Foster on September 19, 2010, 02:44:01 PM
| breathe wrote on Sat, 18 September 2010 22:41 |
Actually, I don't know if ANYONE on this forum likes the music I like and record, so that may be a point of disconnect. Nicholas |
Don't be so hard on yourself. It's been too easy for you. You have been handicapped by the times and technology. You can't just buy your way to good recordings.
Early recordists had to improvise. Many had the advantage when they started of not having anything even available to them for sale, let alone the newest and or the best.
They were blessed in that there was not any ready information available at the stroke of a key. They had to dig deep to find materials on the subject.
They learned (and this part is important) to appreciate content. The song first, then performance, performance, performance.
They learned when asking advice, not to gloss over parts they didn't agree with only taking the parts that appealed to them.
It was an expensive proposition even for those who were using what was termed, "semi-pro" gear at the time. A new TEAC 4 track system cost 6 to 10 grand equivalent to 3 times that in todays Dollars. This resulted in a weeding out process. Only people who really wanted it, got into recording and only those who were really talented advanced in the business.
Now days any idiot with a few hundred bucks and a lap top is a "producer". This is the reason I used to go on and on about cheap gear (it turned out to be a losing battle on my part). I think there needs to be a "price" for admission.
My ex-wife used to ask me, "Why do you keep reading those (articles, owners manuals, equipment pamphlets, magazines, whatever) over and over?" There wasn't anything else to read. I was obsessed and I absorbed every nugget of info I could get my hands on. I learned that sometimes, wanting is better than having. Dreams are always better than the reality.
I started learning recording on cassette decks recording my band live. Then I began bouncing between cassette decks for overdubs. I didn't even understand what the bias switches were for or how to use the Dolby NR but I figured it out on my own, not by getting on the computer and asking Fletcher.
When I cobbled together my first real recording rig (and I was in heaven) it was a little Dokorder 4 track a TEAC SX 3300 2 track and a TEAC Model 2A mixer (I still have the mixer wrapped up in plastic out in my shop). I had an Ibanez analog delay I borrowed, a bi amp quad limiter, Shure and EV mics from my bands PA and JBL monitors set up in a spare bedroom in an old house with 12 foot ceilings. I figured out how to record 4 tracks on the Dokorder, mix those to one or two tracks to the 3300, take the tape off the 3300 and put it back on the Dokorder and record 3 or 4 more tracks. I learned that I had to keep one track open at the end and to wait to record the bass last or it would get mushy from all the bounces. I learned many years later this was what The Beatles did too. RATS! I thought I came up with that first.
I used the living room for a live room. The bathroom and kitchen were my echo chambers. People came from miles around to get recorded in my little home studio.
I was forced to learn how to make recordings based first on content. I learned that if the song and /or the band sucked, there was no hope. My equipment was a handicap. I couldn't "fix it in the mix". I am thankful for that.
The best advice I have read here recently is for learning recordists to limit themselves in track count. Start learning how to make a decent recording with only 4 tracks. Learn how to get sounds from the drums and amps with mics from the room at capture, and not with processers. We did stuff like tune the snare so low the head was wrinkled, tape a wallet to it and adjust the snares so the was lots of sizzle. We didn't just turn to an EQ or a sample replacement.
If you rely on plug ins and distressors and API's you will only be getting sounds that any idiot with plug ins, API's and distressors can get.
Stop stressing over what mp3 converter sounds best. I have Beatle and Merle Haggard mp3s that I love to listen to in spite of the mp3 process. The songs are great and the performances are stellar. Don't need much more than that.
Be original and innovative.
I think the biggest handicap you face is you have too many resources available to you. You have been overwhelmed by the gear and technology. You have swallowed the hook line and sinker in regards to what equipment sales people have sold you. These things are only tools. Make it simple.
And stop insulting people. This is a people business. You never know when you will be forced to work with someone you said something rude to. The web forums are a double edged sword that can cut you deep. Not every one can pull off insult humor and caustic replies like Fletcher does. Leave that to him. You do not endear yourself to people being rude. Good manners a little humor and some humility will take you a long way. I know, I learned the "hard way".
Speaking of the hard way, check out Sharon Jones and The DAP Kings recording, "I Learned the Hard Way". 8 tracks!!!!!
http://www.sharonjonesandthedapkings.com/
| Fleetwood Mac |
Don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to |