Post by: carne_de_res on January 25, 2006, 11:55:55 AM
very fast drumming. tu-pa-tu-pa-tu-pa...you know.
i have a hard time recording kick and snare on this type of music.
most of the songs alternate fast passages, where the drummer hits the things relatively lightly, to slower ones, and in those the drummer pounds much harder.
compressing the kick and snare while tracking only helps me so much.
fact is, i want the kick and snare to be very clear and present on fast passages without having to resort to superheavy compression and/or triggered samples (triggers seem to be the norm on records of this type of music).
any suggestion about drum tuning, mic choice and placement and everything else is much appreciated.
thank you in advance.
Post by: redfro on January 25, 2006, 12:38:39 PM
) and I had to treat the two parts differently. Like two separate drum sounds. The best thing I found is a 91 for attack and bring that up on the fast kick parts. You also will find that at mix down you'll automate the shit outta that snare. But if the guy's worth a shit you should me able to even out the snare.And samples are the norm for this kinda thing. For a reason. Cause most of these guys can't play that fast with any consistency at all.
Good luck....
Post by: Klokkern on January 25, 2006, 01:53:29 PM
I have recorded and mixed a few albums in this genre, and done a lot of live sound for metal bands over the years (i.e. Darkthrone (super lo-fi) Susperia (with the first dimmu borgir drummer), Red Harvest, Satyricon, Enslaved, Arcturus (with the drummer from Mayhem) and a few more) and I am afraid most of what redfro says is true. Even though I have had the pleasure of working with some quite technically flawless drummers, there are limits to physics when they play blast beats or faster, and it is almost impossible to not to play lighter on both kick and snare.
Most of these drummers use triggers.
Lately I have gotten to love Drumagog drum replacing plug in (www.drumagaog.com) . Which gives you a whole different approach than triggers. Wont do you too much good on analouge tape, though....
It is no secret that most extreme metal bands use triggers to have better control over the dynamics. All the above mentioned use triggers, exept from Darkthrone (of course.... The recorded AND mixed the 2 albums I did for them in 26 an 31 hours respectivly.... The shitty sound they have is well thought through....)
I also know that a lot of bands who are not fortunate enough to have drummers of the quality of all the bands I have mentioned, record midi from the triggers into cubase, and the quantisize the hits to be perfect on time before rendering the files back and blending them with the overheads. Again, a trick that only works in the digital domain.
So I am sorry to say that unless your drummers name is Dave Lombardo or someone of equal fame, chances are you will be automating til the end of the day....
PS; Be careful in compressing the kicks too much. You might end up actually enhancing it´s decay, which again might lead to a sound reminding of one constant bass tone with clicks on top of it to identify the hits during the fastest parts....
Good luck, though...
Regards,
larsK
Post by: Slipperman on January 25, 2006, 02:53:20 PM
| carne_de_res wrote on Wed, 25 January 2006 11:55 |
lately i have been recording a few bands that are into the death/speed/black/whatever metal genre. very fast drumming. tu-pa-tu-pa-tu-pa...you know. i have a hard time recording kick and snare on this type of music. most of the songs alternate fast passages, where the drummer hits the things relatively lightly, to slower ones, and in those the drummer pounds much harder. compressing the kick and snare while tracking only helps me so much. fact is, i want the kick and snare to be very clear and present on fast passages without having to resort to superheavy compression and/or triggered samples (triggers seem to be the norm on records of this type of music). any suggestion about drum tuning, mic choice and placement and everything else is much appreciated. thank you in advance. |
If you plan on fulfilling the common production expectations of the genre(s) you are going to end up with some sort of sample replacement/reinforcement scheme.
As an observation.... If the drums don't sound positively BIZARRE and WHOLLY INORGANIC playing by themselves, you are doomed. You will never get the mixes to 'hit' without scaling down the other instruments to the point that they will lose their basic effectivity.
If you manage to find a way to do this without making any and every 'organic' component in mix an enemy of impact.... Please post your results and methods.
I have been recording this type of music since it's inception 2 decades ago and I have never found anything which results in a truly satisfactory workaround for this common problem without resorting to a legion of variations on the aforementioned 'triggering/sampling' tom-foolery.
I'd be interested to hear if any of my peers are under the impression that they have succeeded where I have failed.
Best regards,
SM.
Post by: Vertigo on January 25, 2006, 05:08:09 PM
For the snare I'll usually mult the track and replace one of the tracks with samples (removing about 30% of the dynamics), which I'll then mix in just behind the original snare.
I always make gog file samples of their own drums - public libraries suck and the more "off" the samples are from the real kit the lower you'll have to put the overheads in the mix.
Also - for blast beat drummers you're MUCH better off using two kick drums instead of a single pedal, it doesn't matter if the two kicks don't sound the same. You'll be replacing them anyway and you'll save hours of hand editing when the blasts are split between two tracks. Otherwise you'll usually wind up looking at an almost square waveform on the kick during the blast parts, which Drumagog won't handle elegantly...
-Lance
Post by: dikledoux on January 25, 2006, 06:04:57 PM
Of course the musician in me says "If you can't play it in such a way that it can be recorded easily, then you need to grow up and practice. A lot. Or maybe think about your writing approach." But that's just me. What do I know?
dik
Post by: electrical on January 25, 2006, 06:23:07 PM
Conventional acoustic recording techniques are appropriate for the slow- and mid-tempo parts of this music, where the drums generally sound pretty good, and I would encourage you not to capitulate to triggering in these parts. In the blasting parts and the 16th-note bass drum passages however, the acoustic sound is often little more than a patter. Not a "blast," but a rattle. It is worth it to set-up a contingency for these parts, if you can record the rest of the music acoustically.
You can use contact mics for the bass drum and snare drum, recorded to two spare tacks, and use them to trigger sounds for those moments. It is rare that there will be a gradual accelerando up to the fast tempo, where the change in sound would need to be faded-in. Usually these passages just happen at a compositional change. You can get away with murder there.
Don't fear triggers in those places where they're necessary, but also don't use them to replace all the acoustic drums, unless the band prefers the electronic sound. It is not as unlikely as in other styles of music that they might prefer the triggers all day.
Post by: Vertigo on January 25, 2006, 10:18:47 PM
-Lance
Post by: redfro on January 25, 2006, 10:40:30 PM
| electrical wrote on Wed, 25 January 2006 17:23 |
It is not as unlikely as in other styles of music that they might prefer the triggers all day. |
Yes, the kick drum fight was long and brutal. But, as has been stated here MANY times, I'm just the facilitator not the artist. So it's Drumagog and no low end on the kick...
(what kind of kick drum has no low end?!?)
Post by: Adam P on January 25, 2006, 10:56:32 PM
| dikledoux wrote on Wed, 25 January 2006 18:04 |
I have a question... If the typical methodology requires sample replacement or some such thing, why don't most of these drummers use electronic drums? |
Very many of the metal bands I've seen that have incredibly fast drum parts use triggers for their kick drum(s), and sometimes snare as well. Just put the trigger "brain" in a small rack case, patch it into a direct box to the board, and you're good to go.
| Vertigo wrote on Wed, 25 January 2006 22:18 |
Avenged Sevenfold's "Bat Country" is a pretty good example of the contrast between triggered drums in the heavy parts and acoustic drums in the softer parts. It's also a good example of how you wind up having to bury the overheads when you use samples that don't match the "real" kit. -Lance |
I'd also argue that its an excellent example of all-around no-good-ness, but that's just my opinion.
Post by: craig boychuk on January 26, 2006, 01:13:16 AM
The biggest difference in the sound of a hard hit vs a quieter one is in the transients. If you can even out the transients, you'll have a more consistent sound.
Here we go...
Slap a de-esser first in line on your kick channel. If you have more than one track for the kick, you'll probably want to subgroup them. If the drummer has two kick drums, you'll need two de-essers.
Set the sidechain of the de-esser to be a shelf, and set the cutoff freq as low as it can go. Most dessers don't go any lower than about 2khz, but the lower the better. (this is why a MBC may be a better choice)
Adjust the threshold so that the unit is working the most when the drummer is hitting harder. A ratio control can be really useful, and a soft knee slope is preferable. When he/she is playing lighter - usually during blast beats or fast double pedal stuff - the de-esser should only be kicking in a bit. The settings depends on the player and the sounds you have to work with. Experiment. Every time I do this I have it set up differently. Try to match the sound of the transients on the harder hits to the lighter ones by adjusting the gain reduction of the de-esser.
You may end up removing so much HF that things sound real bad. Don't worry. The key here is to match the transients as best as possible, even if it means being a little extreme with the de-esser.
Patch in an EQ after the de-esser, with a HF shelf set to the same cutoff freq and Q as the side chain in the de-esser. Boost the HF shelf to replace the highend you've removed.
Now you can slap a comp in after the EQ to even things out some more. The comp will be much more useful now that the transient content of the sound has been smoothed out.
This isn't an exact science, but it can work very well in some situations. It's saved me from triggers many times.
-craig
Post by: electrical on January 26, 2006, 02:09:26 AM
| craig wrote on Thu, 26 January 2006 01:13 |
Here's a neat trick with a de-esser that works well on kick drum in some situations... |
I'm going to remember that. Nice idea.
I have a similar solution to a different problem with the snare track in really fast thrashy playing. The hi-hat bleed in the snare channel can be quite a bit louder than the snare in these moments, and I sometimes use a de-esser to keep it at bay.
Hi-hats, I shit 'em. I wish they'd never been invented. If there were a negative microphone I could use to take hi-hats out of a recording, I'd use one most of the time. Truly satanic instrument.
Post by: Klokkern on January 26, 2006, 03:45:19 AM
And I totally agree that recording drums for this kind of music has got little or nothing to do with recording drums for most other kinds of music. Sadly, it is either triggers or automation/bleeding/loose hits with no power and similar problems.
regards,
larsK
Post by: Greg Thompson on January 26, 2006, 07:50:13 AM
The running joke that my friends and I have regarding metal drums is that what you hear on the record has no relation to the acoustical event that transpired when the drummer struck his instrument.
Cheers,
Greg
Post by: George_ on January 26, 2006, 08:27:34 AM
| Quote: |
The running joke that my friends and I have regarding metal drums is that what you hear on the record has no relation to the acoustical event that transpired when the drummer struck his instrument. |
I dont agree.. depends on the record.. the swedish productions, thats true mostly doesnt sound like what happend there, because kick and snare are right in your face.. for example the latest nevermore-record.
compare it to darktranquillity or the latest OPETH.. these drums sound like "real drums in a real room":
Post by: Vertigo on January 26, 2006, 10:20:42 AM
[Edit - Oops, sorry George - I misread your post. Ignore the above, I agree with you]
-Lance
Post by: carne_de_res on January 26, 2006, 10:21:30 AM
in the past i've tried to take a good sample of the real kick and snare on the kit and re-use them as triggers without having to resort to an external sample library.
it kinda worked, so maybe i'll keep going with that in the future.
Post by: redfro on January 26, 2006, 10:59:37 AM
| craig wrote on Thu, 26 January 2006 00:13 |
Here's a neat trick with a de-esser that works well on kick drum in some situations.... snip |
Great idea. Wish I would have thought of it when I was recording drums for this last project...would have saved me a TON of work. Oh well, the next project in the door is going to be kinda the same deal, so I'll definitely give it a whirl.
Thanks!
Post by: craig boychuk on January 26, 2006, 02:23:47 PM
| electrical wrote on Thu, 26 January 2006 01:09 |
...Hi-hats, I shit 'em... Truly satanic instrument. |
Agreed, fuck.
Post by: rankus on January 26, 2006, 04:11:09 PM
I always try to think of metal drum sounds as similar to a stapler (for stapling two pieces of paper together)...
Imagine a stapler being hit really fast and hard ... ka-chuk, ka-chuk, ka-chuck ....
I even sampled a smaller handheld plastic sewing machine that I play for some of the metal heads... "see, your drums sound just like a sewing machine..." (they are usually not impressed;)
My point? .... um.. well, I guess I don't have one....
I agree with the poster that suggested two kik drums on seperate tracks when using Drumagog to trigger... I just went through hell on my last metal project, trying to get that damn thing to track the blasts on a single track...
Post by: George_ on January 26, 2006, 11:18:39 PM
| Quote: |
I agree with the poster that suggested two kik drums on seperate tracks when using Drumagog to trigger... I just went through hell on my last metal project, trying to get that damn thing to track the blasts on a single track... |
that's only a compression/EQ & Soundwork-thing for me if it does work or not. I use only triggered kickdrums. the Sourcefile is sampled from a DW-kit. I use ha smack and a booooum sample loaded into battery (NI). (adapted from MARSH)
trick 2 is internal reamping. just make a nuke-group and send the things you dont hear on this group again (with the sends). that works great!(adapted from mixing eng. handbook)
trick 3 is: make a highcut on the kick at about 5khz (depends), but the range between 240 and 370 (depends on the mix, on the sample, blahblah) with 3 to 6dB and add those 3 to 6dB to the bass. (learned from TIK, thanx!!)
trick 4 is: highcut the guitars at 9 to 12khz (thanx ross hoghart)
that works nicely:) oh, and I am doing only demos so my produced farts sound better but it's still a fart;)
cheers
Post by: t(h)ik on January 27, 2006, 07:06:51 AM
| rankus wrote on Thu, 26 January 2006 22:11 |
My point? .... um.. well, I guess I don't have one.... |
LOL...
I think it is a reiteration of Slipperman's point.
Fukk man, Desser huh? Thank you. I will try it but I think as S-man points out it seems obvious that it will take away the attackedness....
There is no way to do this shit with one bass drum....unless they wanna pay me six bills a day to edit....FUKK THAT!
Maybe some of you are getting six bills a day anyway...
Q: What is wrong with automation?
I mean when I run tape the drummer has to be good enough to keep up, but when I have twenty-four mics on his kit it's in Nuendo.....
Melodic Part <snip> Blast Beat! Grab the fukken volume tab and jerk it on up there! <snip> Guitar solo...
Am I missing something...
I don't know if I will ever get good at this shit but without the room you lose all the Black Sabbathness and Slayerness....
I can't imagine trying to do an album where the goal is Nevermore...
Thanx to everyone great thread...
lemme nough
Post by: Vertigo on January 27, 2006, 09:35:09 AM
-Lance
Post by: xonlocust on January 27, 2006, 11:09:06 AM
| Slipperman wrote on Wed, 25 January 2006 13:53 |
<snip> If you plan on fulfilling the common production expectations of the genre(s) you are going to end up with some sort of sample replacement/reinforcement scheme. <snip> I have been recording this type of music since it's inception 2 decades ago and I have never found anything which results in a truly satisfactory workaround for this common problem without resorting to a legion of variations on the aforementioned 'triggering/sampling' tom-foolery. |
SM-
i'm curious, could you talk a little bit more about how this was done in your pre-DAW days? would you basically record the trigger live to tape? as well as the acoustic kick and blend to taste?
i have absolutely no experience in the genre but play drums, so it's interesting to me. i've enjoyed reading the responses of how contemporary DAW users approach it but clearly the genre has been around longer than DAWs.
thanks,
nick
Post by: craig boychuk on January 27, 2006, 03:28:09 PM
| sixtiksix wrote on Fri, 27 January 2006 06:06 |
Fukk man, Desser huh? Thank you. I will try it but I think as S-man points out it seems obvious that it will take away the attackedness.... |
Ah, but it won't...
...if you add the HF back in with an eq after the desser.
This is a crucial step, otherwise your kik will indeed sound like poo.
Post by: Bernardo on January 27, 2006, 05:25:09 PM
| Klokkern wrote on Wed, 25 January 2006 13:53 |
exept from Darkthrone (of course.... The recorded AND mixed the 2 albums I did for them in 26 an 31 hours respectivly.... The shitty sound they have is well thought through....) |
Holy shit, you did Darktrhone records? Which ones?
Post by: Nama on January 27, 2006, 07:03:28 PM
| dikledoux wrote on Wed, 25 January 2006 18:04 |
I have a question... If the typical methodology requires sample replacement or some such thing, why don't most of these drummers use electronic drums? I guess that wouldn't look as hardass in live situations, but it would eliminate a ton of pain in the recording process, no? |
You answered your question. Looks are important.
Post by: Fenris Wulf on January 27, 2006, 07:10:47 PM
| craig wrote on Thu, 26 January 2006 06:13 |
Here's a neat trick with a de-esser that works well on kick drum in some situations. Using the HF band of a multi band comp will work too, and it may even be more useful than a de-esser if it gives you lots of control over the crossover points. |
Alternatively, I've discovered that I can get all the "click" I want without EQ, by using a transient designer followed by an LA2A (plug-ins). It actually creates high frequencies out of nothing. Remember, time domain and frequency domain are two names for the same thing.
On one occasion, I was able to rescue a very badly recorded kick with tons of cymbal leakage. I band-passed it so that it was just a dull thump, and created an attack with the aformementioned technique.
When it comes to drum sound manipulation, Cubase/Nuendo is rather brilliant, because you can run "strip silence" on a kick or snare track, select all the hits at once, and apply Envelope, Normalize, complex Fade curves, or even varispeed to all the hits at once. Thus, I can manipulate the drum hits as if they're samples.
To reduce the hat leakage on the snare, I use a dynamic EQ technique. I run "strip silence," mult the track, lowpass the second track, and adjust the fade handles so that the first track fades into the second track on every hit. You need a linear-phase EQ and Nuendo-type editing to do this.
Alternatively, I might use an envelope follower with the kick or snare modulating itself. It creates a nice, clean sound with a good attack. Unfortunately, it exaggerates any inconsistencies in the drummer's hitting and you have to follow it with an L1.
So the upshot of all this is, I hate samples and I go to great lengths to avoid using them.
Post by: t(h)ik on January 28, 2006, 06:25:17 PM
| Fenris Wulf. wrote on Sat, 28 January 2006 01:10 | ||
Alternatively, I've discovered that I can get all the "click" I want without EQ, by using a transient designer followed by an LA2A (plug-ins). It actually creates high frequencies out of nothing. Remember, time domain and frequency domain are two names for the same thing. On one occasion, I was able to rescue a very badly recorded kick with tons of cymbal leakage. I band-passed it so that it was just a dull thump, and created an attack with the aformementioned technique. When it comes to drum sound manipulation, Cubase/Nuendo is rather brilliant, because you can run "strip silence" on a kick or snare track, select all the hits at once, and apply Envelope, Normalize, complex Fade curves, or even varispeed to all the hits at once. Thus, I can manipulate the drum hits as if they're samples. To reduce the hat leakage on the snare, I use a dynamic EQ technique. I run "strip silence," mult the track, lowpass the second track, and adjust the fade handles so that the first track fades into the second track on every hit. You need a linear-phase EQ and Nuendo-type editing to do this. Alternatively, I might use an envelope follower with the kick or snare modulating itself. It creates a nice, clean sound with a good attack. Unfortunately, it exaggerates any inconsistencies in the drummer's hitting and you have to follow it with an L1. So the upshot of all this is, I hate samples and I go to great lengths to avoid using them. |
Uh,
Holy Shit!
Thanks
I guess it will take about a week to figure all this out....throw in the de esser....see you guys next year
Post by: Slipperman on January 28, 2006, 11:19:26 PM
| xonlocust wrote on Fri, 27 January 2006 11:09 |
SM- i'm curious, could you talk a little bit more about how this was done in your pre-DAW days? would you basically record the trigger live to tape? as well as the acoustic kick and blend to taste? i have absolutely no experience in the genre but play drums, so it's interesting to me. i've enjoyed reading the responses of how contemporary DAW users approach it but clearly the genre has been around longer than DAWs. thanks, nick |
Oh boy.
What a GIGANTIC can of wormies.
Well... I'll say this...
IMAGINE something and we did it.
Super early days.... Spiking 'pips' to tape with gates after the fact. Record on seperate track(s).
Drive Publisons, Wendall Jr's.
I have fond memories(I jest) of laboriously spot erasing false triggers and the dreaded 'chatters' off the 2" master. Even flipping the tape over and bouncing thru digital microdelays(like the Infernal 90) to get the pips supposedly 'realigned' with the original signal on the jobs with the budget for such madness.
Later....
Contact triggers taped or glued on membranes.
Driving Eventides, TC's.
Later still...
Ddrum brains. DrumKats. D4's off membrane or shell triggers.
Record the outputs to tape in addition to the real sounds.
Even more latency tom-foolery since some of the units had a tendancy to work slower in generating sound files during the denser sections of drumming.
And let's not forget MIDI.
Lock a hardware, or later a software, sequencer to SMPTE and generate triggers during or after recording(as described above). Err to the side of caution... 'collect too much' and later troubleshoot all the false/late bullshit in MIDI and regenerate with a SMPTE offset or MIDI track slip to eliminate latency.
Really got a budget...?
Rent a 3324 and totally lose mind.
Ohhh God.
The BAD OLD DAYS.
I could go on for weeks.
So I won't.
Hope this has been helpful.
Best regards,
SM.
Post by: t(h)ik on January 29, 2006, 03:04:07 AM
| Fenris Wulf. wrote on Sat, 28 January 2006 01:10 | ||
Alternatively, I've discovered that I can get all the "click" I want without EQ, by using a transient designer followed by an LA2A (plug-ins). It actually creates high frequencies out of nothing. Remember, time domain and frequency domain are two names for the same thing. On one occasion, I was able to rescue a very badly recorded kick with tons of cymbal leakage. I band-passed it so that it was just a dull thump, and created an attack with the aformementioned technique. When it comes to drum sound manipulation, Cubase/Nuendo is rather brilliant, because you can run "strip silence" on a kick or snare track, select all the hits at once, and apply Envelope, Normalize, complex Fade curves, or even varispeed to all the hits at once. Thus, I can manipulate the drum hits as if they're samples. To reduce the hat leakage on the snare, I use a dynamic EQ technique. I run "strip silence," mult the track, lowpass the second track, and adjust the fade handles so that the first track fades into the second track on every hit. You need a linear-phase EQ and Nuendo-type editing to do this. Alternatively, I might use an envelope follower with the kick or snare modulating itself. It creates a nice, clean sound with a good attack. Unfortunately, it exaggerates any inconsistencies in the drummer's hitting and you have to follow it with an L1. So the upshot of all this is, I hate samples and I go to great lengths to avoid using them. |
I've tried to use the trasient designer, it's great for tracking so the drummer has something to listen to but I didn't find anything that had me salivating. It's not so technical with just two knobs that turn a thisaway and a thataway.
What about deessers?
I am flat on my ass right now but have some plug-ins. Do you need a hardware unit?
Thank you
tik
Post by: adamcal on January 29, 2006, 07:11:23 AM
I always split the tracks of kicks and snares, then gain eq compress whatever differently.
the faster kicks always need the tops and LESS bass, the faster snares need to be louder, smaller, spikier.
As much as I love 2", fast metal styles for me are worse on analog(well the drums anyway), I need those spiky transients intact, cutting through the wall to wall carpet of guitars and bass. Transient designer spiking them even more!!!!
Its almost the opposite what we do for fat rock. where as slipperman says its about the "creative destruction of transient information", but in speed metal both exist in the same song!!!!, its up to us to get it all working and sounding coherent
Post by: Fenris Wulf on January 29, 2006, 05:19:21 PM
| sixtiksix wrote on Sun, 29 January 2006 08:04 |
I am flat on my ass right now but have some plug-ins. Do you need a hardware unit? |
For a transient designer, I use DigitalFishPhones Dominion. Nasty sounding but it does the job. For the envelope follower, I drag the mono kick or snare onto a stereo track and insert MDA Envelope. If I want a stereo envelope follower, for instance to emphasize the snare in the room mics, I use NDC Amplitude Imposer on a quad group. All freeware.
Post by: George_ on January 30, 2006, 07:29:19 AM
http://www.morningstarrec.com/
I am talking to you Fenris Wulf
Post by: Klokkern on January 30, 2006, 11:24:39 AM
....and yes, they use triggers (the d-drum brain and d-drum triggers), even if Frost is one of the absolute more powerful drummers from the scene....
larsK
Post by: George_ on January 30, 2006, 03:00:07 PM
thanx for the info!
Post by: Fenris Wulf on January 30, 2006, 04:06:33 PM
| noGearslut wrote on Mon, 30 January 2006 12:29 |
I am talking to you Fenris Wulf |
I'm an American ... I got the name "Fenris" because of the way I eat a pizza.
Post by: Adam P on January 30, 2006, 08:24:34 PM
| Klokkern wrote on Mon, 30 January 2006 11:24 |
I guess that means they do sell lots of albums.... |
When some guys I know toured with Satyricon they said all their singer did was bitch at people and say "back home I drive a BMW!" as if people were supposed to care. So, I guess they sell enough records for him to buy a BMW.
Post by: t(h)ik on January 31, 2006, 04:38:18 AM
| Adam P wrote on Tue, 31 January 2006 02:24 | ||
When some guys I know toured with Satyricon they said all their singer did was bitch at people and say "back home I drive a BMW!" as if people were supposed to care. So, I guess they sell enough records for him to buy a BMW. |
A singer bitching?
I don't believe it!
That never happens...
Post by: Klokkern on January 31, 2006, 06:32:05 AM
By the way, the BMW is long since gone, he has been driving a porsche 911 Carrera which he bought new for the past year or so... (Cars is part of our common interest, I have owned both a BMW, two Alfas and a Maserati, but never really thought of it as something people should look up to me for, more as something I could talk to other people with an interest in cars about....)
before I go on, I can post part of the private message i sent to noGearslut after he asked who I was...
....I am just an Oslo based sound engineer who has worked as a live engineer since 1990 and who built a little home studio in 2003... Living in Oslo and being a former metalhead (I actually hardly ever listen to "real" metal anymore, and havent´t done so since.... 1990-ish) I have worked with a lot of the norwegian metal bands, among them a bit of monitor work at festivals for Satyricon.
I have also recorded 3 albums for Satyrs label Moonfog (2 x Darkthrone and Khold´s "Morke gravers kammer") 2 of them in my home studio, so in a way you could say that Satyr has helped finance me moving to a bigger studio in in rented facilities....
OK, back to THIS message again....
I have also heard stories of Satyr being a dickhead, full of himself etc etc etc, but until he proves the storytellers right by being an asshole to me, I chose not to join the people shoutintg about how lame he is etc. And having worked with him on lots of occations and screwed up on some, I honestly have to say that I have met more rock stars who would beat Satyr in the "be an asshole" competition than I can count. I screwed up BIG TIME during the first song Satyricon / Nocturno of Darkthrone played at Wacken, and he had about a 1000 reasons for being pissed of at me since this was the most important cue of the whole show, and since we went throught it thorougly before the show. He was clearly not satisfied, but he did have the chance of blaming it on me on national norwegian television who made a 30 minute documentary on the event. All he said was that "one of the guys working for us could probably have done a better job, but whats done is done...." (or something like that)
Before any of you think I am a friend of his defending him, I do not concider him a friend since I hardly ever see him in non work related situations.
However, I have to say that I have met about a hundred rock stars who were bigger assholes than Satyr. Actually, I have never thought of him as an asshole at all, despite rumours saying what has been said here in this post. My feeling is that some peolple get very jealous when they meet a rock star with credibility and a godlike status for some, especially when they are not fans themselves. Some of these people seem to have a hard time understanding that the rock stars are also humans who will treat you like you treat them....
During the years I have been warned about rock stars who are supposed to be assholes more times than I can count. Most of them turned out to be perfectly nice.... I have met very few real assholes, the ones I have met are often "up and coming" stars that are later remembered for never getting past the "up and coming" stage....
OK, a big rant about something not even related to the threads original theme, but.... Well, I think I had to say this....
Regards,
larsK
Post by: t(h)ik on January 31, 2006, 10:43:43 AM
I hope no one would form an opinion about someone based on a forum.