Post by: rnicklaus on September 07, 2007, 03:59:30 PM
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 07, 2007, 04:32:29 PM
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 07, 2007, 04:37:07 PM
"The thing had more short-circuits than a mixing board with a bong spilled on it."
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 07, 2007, 07:22:45 PM
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 08, 2007, 06:58:01 PM
Post by: compasspnt on September 09, 2007, 01:33:10 AM
Post by: mgod on September 09, 2007, 11:56:32 AM
And the Lambo jeep had a 72-gallon gas tank!
DS
Post by: rollmottle on September 09, 2007, 02:18:20 PM
| mgod wrote on Sun, 09 September 2007 08:56 |
Aahhh, these guys are just cruel. Some of these are the grooviest cars of all time too! I mean, really, who wouldn't want an Amphicar? And the Lambo jeep had a 72-gallon gas tank! DS |
because it got a mile a gallon?
some serious dogs on this list. growing up i had the pleasure of cruising in my dad's Pintos (yes multiple) for years and years. and then he got the corvair. he drove that from L.A. to Santa Barbara and back every day for a year no problems at all. he's an airplane mechanic, so that probably helped.
Post by: CHANCE on September 09, 2007, 05:14:48 PM
With regards to the "Corvair". When I dabled in automotive design in the 80's, I tried using the transaxles from the corvair before switching to the "ZF" used by "Pantera" (not the band) We discovered that the reason the corvair trans axels kept going bad was because the bevels on the ring gear were manufactured BACKWARDS ! Yes backward. Instead of the force being applied to the concave cut on these gears, the torque was applied to the oppisite side. Fortunately the Offy engines we were using, ran in a CCW direction and the Corvair engine ran in a CW direction. We contacted GM and they agreed that those gears were indeed an overlooked design flaw. Kenedy engineering products manufactured replacment gears for the corvair that corrected this flaw
Post by: Mike Peake on September 09, 2007, 08:30:27 PM
Post by: max cooper on September 09, 2007, 08:42:20 PM
| Steve Hudson wrote on Fri, 07 September 2007 15:37 |
My favorite description of the bunch, referring to the 1975 Triumph TR-7: "The thing had more short-circuits than a mixing board with a bong spilled on it." |
My dad always had English cars. There was a joke:
Q: Why do the English drink warm beer?
A: Because they have Lucas refrigerators.
Post by: PaulyD on September 09, 2007, 10:32:48 PM
Post by: Tim Halligan on September 10, 2007, 12:55:24 AM
| max cooper wrote on Mon, 10 September 2007 08:42 |
My dad always had English cars. There was a joke: Q: Why do the English drink warm beer? A: Because they have Lucas refrigerators. |
There was also a joke that did the rounds for years...particularly whilst British cars had the worst electrical systems on the planet...
"I bought a British car...because I like walking"
Cheers,
Tim
Post by: CHANCE on September 10, 2007, 08:10:56 AM
| max cooper wrote on Sun, 09 September 2007 17:42 |
Q: Why do the English drink warm beer? A: Because they have Lucas refrigerators. |
Again when I designed my car, the then editor of "Road and track" magazine, Bob McClurg who did a story on my car, told me some of his horror stories with Lucas electronics in the British machines.(no affiliation with Terry's gear I hope). He told me that he flew the "Concord" overseas and when he landed, he got a tour of the cockpit and on every guage was the word Lucas. Bob said he nearly passed out. Lucas was very popular with the old British motorcycles too, such as Triumph, BSA, AJS/Matchless, Norton, Greeves, Volicette, Royal Enfield, etc. To this day when I occasionally tinker with a vintage Brittish bike, I still wonder what the method to their madness was.
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 10, 2007, 12:50:47 PM
| max cooper wrote on Sun, 09 September 2007 19:42 | ||
My dad always had English cars. There was a joke: Q: Why do the English drink warm beer? A: Because they have Lucas refrigerators. |
About 20 years ago, my dad gave me his '73 MGB (the last year with metal bumpers) and warned me about the "Lucas, Prince of Darkness" electronics. I lucked out as the drummer in my band at the time was a full-time Brit sports car mechanic who lived two blocks away.
Post by: jwhynot on September 10, 2007, 02:23:00 PM
I think that car was molded out of shit. And none too carefully.
I guess quality is Job 2.
JW
Post by: ssltech on September 10, 2007, 03:32:49 PM
The (dealer-converted) Morgan Plus-8?
The Jaguar X-type? -Hell, the text even says:
<<It hardly matters that the X-Type was not that bad a car.>>
-Well, If you're listing the 50 WORST cars... then I VERY much beg to differ! Small, yes. and AWD standard? -Only in the states, mi amigo. I even drove a 2WD DIESEL X-type once... if you have a hard time dealing with the nicely-fitted 4WD US car, the Diesel will completely bake your noodle!
Much of this is plagiarised semi-directly from "crap cars" which I think may be the work of those wags over at http://www.sniffpetrol.com -Except that crap cars is rather better, and doesn't have the Shaguar on it. No, it has space for the Morris Marina. in fact, I think that it even makes a second case for it with the Morris Ital.
The author however, seems to have spent some time as an electronics service engineer in some capacity; since he deems otherwise average-for-the-time cars like the '81 caddy Fleetwood and the Ferrari Mondial to make the list because of spotty electronics... likewise the Lagonda (although that really WAS s nightmare) although he even lists multimeters and O'scopes in that review... underscoring my suspicions still further.
Anyhow, if you REALLY wanted to make the "worst cars ever" complitation, you'd simply HAVE to include a few more British efforts, like the 'Allegro' ("All-Aggro") -in fact an awful lot of BMC/British Leyland/Austin-Rover product would be tough to cut... http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/ is a great place to look at some of the failures...
I can't EVER disagree with the inclusion of the TR7 though: that thing was an utter piece if steaming crap! -Now if you (as many people have) put the Rover (formerly Buick) V8 in the Stag (which British Leyland considered... hindsight tells us that this was the wrong decision!) it would have NO place on that list... A beautiful car which came so close to getting a worthy motor... (sigh!)
Keith
Post by: Barkley McKay on September 10, 2007, 03:51:42 PM
All still working fine, but then again, it is all point to point wiring...
barks
Post by: Barkley McKay on September 10, 2007, 03:55:19 PM
| ssltech wrote on Mon, 10 September 2007 20:32 |
Anyhow, if you REALLY wanted to make the "worst cars ever" complitation, you'd simply HAVE to include a few more British efforts, like the 'Allegro' ("All-Aggro") -in fact an awful lot of BMC/British Leyland/Austin-Rover product would be tough to cut... http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/ is a great place to look at some of the failures... Keith |
I drove an Allegro a couple of times. The steering wheel was nearly square surrounded by dark brown and tan trim...nice.
They had a reputation of popping out the rear windscreen if you jacked the car up in the wrong place.
barks
Post by: ssltech on September 10, 2007, 10:06:28 PM
Seems that British Leyland wasn't content with the concept of using the same shape as everyone else...
| Barkley McKay wrote: |
...40 year old Humber Hawk... |
Two-tone, I DO hope... with the "jam-butty" pattern, where the roof-top is the same as the lower body, with the "filling" in the middle? ...-A slight forward lean on the A-pillar? -A car with character, if ever there was one sir. -Won't win many races, but it makes a lovely gentle statement wherever you park it.
Hats off to you, sir!
Keith
Post by: RSettee on September 10, 2007, 11:00:58 PM
I agree that the Pontiac Fiero should have made that list.
Some of the cars on this list weren't bad perse, more like ineffective, like the 1980 California 305 Corvette, which may have been anemic and not up to Corvette standards, but still it wasn't that bad. Not Mustang 2 type bad.
I had no idea that the "Iron Duke" was that bad! 90 goddamned horsepower?? In a Camaro!? This one made me laugh alot:
"There was a time when 90 horsepower was a lot, and that time was 1932. Fifty years later, it was bupkis, especially under the hood of Chevy's beloved Mustang-fighter, the Camaro. As the base engine for the redesigned 1982 Camaro (and Pontiac Firebird), the 2.5-liter, four-cylinder "Iron Duke" was the smallest, least powerful, most un-Camaro-like engine that could be and, like the California Corvette, it was connected to a low-tech three-speed slushbox. So equipped, the Iron Duke Camaro had 0-60 mph acceleration of around 20 seconds, which left Camaro owners to drum their fingers while school buses rocketed past in a blur of yellow."
Other ones they should have had on the list:
--mid 60's Valiant with the big glass dome on the back that eventually became the early template for the very earliest versions of the Barracuda. Ugly as sin.
--K-Car. This missed this!? Come on.
--Dodge Caravan. These things always smoked oil...I think the oil seals always went, and most of the ones that I saw (and still see!) always have a cloud of blue smoke behind 'em. Plus, they helped pave the way for the SUV trend (along with the Bronco and Jimmy, which were more sport than utility).
--Dodge Rampage...the Omni/ Charger front with a truck bed on the back. Nice if you want to haul a couple of twigs.
--Dodge Charger in the 80's. Based on the Omni, the Charger went from the 70's equivalent of an Incredible Hulk muscle car to a Bruce Banner styled compact vehicle.
--80's Hyundai's. I believe their first option was "rust".
--70's Honda Civics.
--Hurst Olds in the 80's. (Note to Olds--monogrammed seats don't make you go faster...what was the car's output, 180 HP?)
--Rambler Ambassador
--Ford Maverick
--Geo Metro
--lest we forget Lada cars?
--Dodge Aspen (mediocre styling, appalling fake woodgrain on some station wagons....didn't Chrysler resurrect the fake woodgrain trend in the 70's? Though we had an Aspen, and the engine kept on going and going)
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 10, 2007, 11:52:58 PM
Post by: ssltech on September 11, 2007, 08:05:40 AM
However, the Italians really WERE formidable contenders.
The Ritmo (Strada in the UK). Ad slogan:
<<Designed by computers, Built by robots>> ...Bought by morons.
The Alfasud. -Promising sporty handling, but its achilles heel was that it was actually made out of rust.
Actually, pretty much the entire output of Turin came with 'disregard' colour-option swatches... -It didn't matter what colour you paid for, it ALWAYS turned a familiar cratered-brown colour and texture, usually within a couple of years.
The bond bug.
The Reliant Robin.
Legal loopholes (3-wheelers in Britain could be driven by younger drivers, using a motorcycle licence) are responsible for a LOT of crap.
Some cars are built crap, others have crapness thrust upon them... but some achieve crapness through a determined and relentless effort...
The Moskvitch Lada.
What's the difference between a Lada and Kylie Minogue's bra?
-You'll feel a PROPER tit in a Lada!
Oh, but Harris Mann, the design genius who gave us the TR7 was obsessed with wedge shapes. The 18/22 series Princess is a classic:
He originally shaped the Allegro also, (at first flush they may not look too similar, but hide everything from the A-pillar forward on the Allegro, and you might see similarities: the C-pillar-into-trunk transition bears a strong resemblance) but it wasn't felt to LOOK crap enough, so a team stepped in, insisted upon a taller engine (which killed the 'wedge' shape) and then shoved a litle piggy face on the front. Souple that with the quartic steering wheel, and you've got a REAL winner!
Keith
Post by: Barkley McKay on September 11, 2007, 09:10:41 AM
Funnily enough, I am sure there was an ad at the time that had a swathe of Austin Metros charging toward the edge of the White Cliffs of Dover...
barks
btw, Keith, my Humber is sadly, not a two tone, but metallic gun metal grey.
Heres a quick snap of it this morning on the way to work:
Awaiting a new set of callipers and a hydrolics bleed having gone hydroscopic(?) It makes a good sofa to look at the garden though, whilst listening to Radio 4 and enjoying a cuppa.
b
Post by: ssltech on September 11, 2007, 12:08:31 PM
| Barkley McKay wrote |
...1980 Austin Metro... ...Funnily enough, I am sure there was an ad at the time that had a swathe of Austin Metros charging toward the edge of the White Cliffs of Dover... |
Ah yes, the "Buy British" campaign: -I remember it well.
It was a very dark time when the ONLY argument you can make to get people to buy your cars is that they are built in a country that so desperately needs your support... yet there we were on the cusp of the 1980s, with no better thing to say for a car than: 'Well, it isn't foreign...'
You may as well put it this way, though:
-And yet... and yet...
One might think that having watched a country squirm while its auto industry expires due to the executives thinking that "there'll always be a healthy demand for domestic cars, this import thing is just a fad", or some such nonsense. -When they get to the stage where they fall back on pariotism to sell sub-standard engineering to the presently-undscerning-but-not-for-long masses, it's the beginning of the end.
Of course that would never happen here...
I hope someone is reading this in Detroit.
A few years ago, -by chance- my wife and I were eating breakfast at a 4-seater table at the Duke University cafeteria one morning. Rick Wagoner came over and asked if he could sit at our table... ("Hey," he said; "Aren't you SSltech???"... -kidding!!!-just kidding!) -Anyhow, when I was sure that he wasn't irritated by chatting about a couple of things automotive, I asked about his general thoughts as to the way forward. -At the time, I REALLY thought that he might have been someone to take the GM behemoth into the 21st century... but it now appears that he is absorbed into the general molasses-slow-and-heavy approach which means I'm seeing and hearing the same things that I heard all those years ago.
Oh, and Rick...
Tell GM to STOP quoting 'miles-per-gasoline-gallon' numbers for a f
Post by: Barkley McKay on September 11, 2007, 12:36:11 PM
| ssltech wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 17:08 |
Ah, -might have been the earlier 1950's version with the lean-forward A-pillar... Make sure that you get a FLUSH rather than just a bleed, if the fluid has fulfilled it's hygroscopic duty... it'll go back to work corroding the new caliper cylinder/pistons otherwise... then a flush every 2 years, whether the car is driven or not. I flush all of our cars' fluid every 24 months, or -in the case of track-going vehicles- before EVERY track event. Keith |
Ah, that would be the Series I-111 (1957-63) models. Mine is a Series IV (1964-68). Same car but with a flatter roof and slightly higher windscreen. The A and B posts are more or less the same 'rake' but the series I-III had a curved rear windscreen. The Hawks, Snipe and Imperial all had the same body, just posher trim and fittings repectively.
Thanks for the advice. I'll make sure my mechanic does it. Sadly I am not 'allowed' to work on it myself (was a real escape!) that much anymore due to a progressive hand condition. It was either the car or the piano playing
barks
Post by: Barkley McKay on September 11, 2007, 12:38:44 PM
ahem, back on topic as these are NOT in the 50 worst cars of all time.
barks
Post by: ssltech on September 11, 2007, 12:51:54 PM
now for some entertainment:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5SDYzw60jjg
Keith
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 11, 2007, 10:15:27 PM
Post by: ssltech on September 12, 2007, 07:53:49 AM
The X1/9 had a backwards (counterclockwise!) rev counter, because the Italians were running out of ideas to compete with British Crapness, and were having to resort to just being silly. The fact that their car was just fundamentally better left them at a significant disadvantage in the crapness challenge.
In the end, superior British inferiority was just too much for the Italians, and -as a reward- the British got to sell their car companies to the Europeans, and the Italians -by way of punishment- got to keep theirs.
...It's a funny old world...
Keith
Post by: jimmyjazz on September 12, 2007, 10:45:08 AM
Post by: Jay Kadis on September 12, 2007, 10:50:21 AM
My dad almost bought a Humber Super Snipe in 1961 but opted for a Peugeot 403 instead. It replaced a Renault Dauphine. There seems to be a pattern emerging here.
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 12, 2007, 10:53:41 AM
Post by: ssltech on September 12, 2007, 02:13:15 PM
In the case of the 914-6, those balls are big, fat, throbbing and rather hairy.
They rust out like crazy -specially in the battery area- but the mid-engined layout is a sleeper.. if you can find one that hasn't been eaten by the tin-worm. Weld a roll-cage into a semi-solid one and you have a bit of a monster... specially if you can get the 914-6.
Easy to maintain, cheap as buttons -just buy one in Arizona or somewhere else with no rain and no salt.
Otherwise yes... the 914 "Pizza-box" is a rustheap with no sex-appeal, and the intrinsic ability to make widows out of girls who married owners.
My friend races a 914, and a 951. -For his day job he owns a large metalworking plant. That's the kind of backup you NEED to look after a 914!
True, the 914 is looked upon by Porsche as a bit of a wayward effort, -and perhaps they'd be happier if they had never gone that way- but like the X1/9 it doesn't really match up to the same level of ultimate crapness.
Most 914's BECOME crap. When they were new, they weren't really very crap... even the 911 of the day wasn't the snorting beast that springs to mind when someone says "Porsche nine-eleven" nowadays...
The TR7 however WAS crap from the second it rolled off the production line. Every single last example to roll out of Speke (later on out of Canley) was a rotting pustule on the scrotum of automotivity.
Mark my words, the Boxster is the 914 of the future. -Not in terms of rust, but the comparisons are many: It's the "entry-level" P-car. It's favoured by hairdressers and poseurs. However, it's a BEAST at auto-cross. Get yourself a later Boxster-S, and you can work up a serious grin! Depreciation on the Boxster is about to hit free-fall, because there are SO many out there, and the 'cachet' of owning "a Porsh" is tarnished as a result.
The 924/944 also suffered the same disdain, and -like the Boxster- they were less-expensive Porsches. Like the Boxster, they too had almost no luggage spage due to engine and transmission placement, with weight distribution given priority over practicality. -The Boxster however excels at Autocross, whereas the last of the 944 turbos are stunningly fast on the track... For one brief year, Porsche forgot to keep the top-of-the-line 911 turbo as its quickest/best-performing offering. The 88 944 Turbo-S and the 1989 951S were faster in a straight line, quicker around the twisties, better balanced and MUCH less likely to kill you. Porsche quickly stopped selling the 944T/951S, before the 911 'cachet' was irrepairably damaged. -It wasn't until about 1996 that they ever built a production car which was faster in any measure.
While the current Cayman model has the distinct capability to outperform the current 911 model, you can bet your ass that Porsche has learned from the 914 (which -like the Boxster- significantly outsold the 911)... NEVER let a car challenge the boss.
Keith
Post by: mgod on September 12, 2007, 02:40:38 PM
I believe it got sold to someone in Chicago in the 90s.
http://dhost.info/thesupercars/supercars/bertone/carabo/68ca rabo.html
http://www.bertone.it/en/scheda_60_carabo_en.htm
DS
Post by: mgod on September 12, 2007, 02:43:32 PM
Post by: mgod on September 12, 2007, 02:45:25 PM
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 12, 2007, 11:21:43 PM
Post by: mgod on September 12, 2007, 11:59:40 PM
DS
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 13, 2007, 12:08:46 AM
Post by: ssltech on September 13, 2007, 10:38:24 AM
...But I HAVE blown a Porsche.
OTOH, Most European car drivers say something awfully similar about 'Vette owners!
Keith
Post by: mgod on September 13, 2007, 10:53:10 AM
DS
Post by: ssltech on September 13, 2007, 11:20:09 AM
May be different elsewhere, but 'round these parts, if a girl says "my new boyfriend drives a Camaro" to her parents, the first image that springs to mind for dad is probably of a skinny. shirtless, bearded trailer-park punk with a mullett and an oil-smeared baseball cap... The next thing that falls to hand is usually a shotgun!
Possibly regional, but that's whatcha get here...
In fact, if you run a yahoo image search and search for the words trailer + park + mullet" (click to run the search) then you get some silly haircuts, TWO pictures of F-body cars, and no other road-going vehicles (I don't count golf carts!) -So I hope nobody thinks that it's my own personal bias; i'm just reflecting what seems to be a prevalent impression.
Keith
Post by: phantom309 on September 15, 2007, 07:06:37 PM
LOVE that one....errr...this one!
Post by: mgod on September 15, 2007, 07:23:51 PM
DS
Post by: phantom309 on September 15, 2007, 07:56:48 PM
| mgod wrote on Sat, 15 September 2007 17:23 |
Well, that's where it was in 1982. Maybe I can still buy it and have my shins shortened, like the guy on King of the Hill. DS |
This is my favorite:
1970 Lancia/Bertone Stratos prototype.
My vote for WORST car ever built is a 1973 Fiat GL sport coupe. Nearly drove me to MORE drink. What a hunk of junk....amazing that I still love Italian cars enough to buy them.
Post by: max cooper on September 15, 2007, 10:40:35 PM
Post by: ssltech on September 16, 2007, 09:35:22 AM
| phantom309 wrote |
amazing that I still love Italian cars enough to buy them. |
Post by: Jon Hodgson on September 16, 2007, 10:00:20 AM
| max cooper wrote on Sun, 16 September 2007 03:40 |
Okay, just for fun, since it made the list in it's rubber-baby-buggy bumper version. |
Now that's what I call quality engineering with beautiful curves.
But what's that car doing in the picture?
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 16, 2007, 07:40:40 PM
What does "FIAT" stand for?
"Fix it again, Tony."
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 16, 2007, 07:47:41 PM
Post by: maxdimario on September 17, 2007, 04:35:23 AM
Post by: ssltech on September 17, 2007, 12:30:03 PM
HEAVEN is where:
The police are British
The chefs Italian
The mechanics are German
The lovers are French
and it's all organised by the Swiss
HELL is where:
The police are German
The chefs are British
The mechanics are French
The lovers are Swiss
and it's all organised by the Italians.
Keef
Post by: PRobb on September 17, 2007, 05:35:21 PM
| max cooper wrote on Sat, 15 September 2007 22:40 |
Okay, just for fun, since it made the list in it's rubber-baby-buggy bumper version. |
All kidding aside, that has got to be one of the most beautiful cars ever built.
Post by: ssltech on September 17, 2007, 08:33:34 PM
Keef
Post by: phantom309 on September 17, 2007, 09:05:40 PM
Post by: max cooper on September 17, 2007, 09:08:38 PM
All kidding aside, that has got to be one of the most beautiful cars ever built.[/quote]
Even better with the darn roof on it.
Post by: ssltech on September 18, 2007, 09:33:42 AM
Post by: Jon Hodgson on September 18, 2007, 09:50:57 AM
| ssltech wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 14:33 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Actually, I know that the coup Post by: Tidewater on September 18, 2007, 12:19:01 PM Jags? E-Type is uuuuglee. I like the D's.  M Post by: ssltech on September 18, 2007, 12:55:25 PM
My old boss had a couple of D-types which he used to race... Prettier than an 'E'? -I don't think even HE would back you on that one... and he loved them! Keith Post by: Tidewater on September 18, 2007, 01:14:37 PM  57 below (be low me) hah Most beautiful car of all time is the 65-67 F-car GTBs. Va rooom M Post by: phantom309 on September 18, 2007, 01:47:09 PM Post by: mgod on September 18, 2007, 01:56:29 PM DS Post by: phantom309 on September 18, 2007, 02:05:55 PM
Nope. I owned this car for 5 years, restored it and drove the bejeezus out of it. 175 MPH is moving pretty well across any surface. Only your shoulders are against the firewall, which is 4 inches of insulation...the back glass is argon filled two pane 1/4. Knees for my 6' 2" frame are a bit askance, but not a problem for many 3-400 mile treks in it. Ask anyone that's restored an Espada how they feel about the: brakes, cooling system, shift linkage, nose lift and simple carb adjustments. The Miura is a complete blast to drive...just don't get off the gas at the wrong time in a curve at speed and you'll have no problems. THAT problem was completely cured with the Countach. Post by: Barkley McKay on September 18, 2007, 02:13:17 PM You are ALL wrong...with due respect of course. This is the most beautiful car of all time: followed by Humbers of course, which are just fat, slower versions. barks Post by: Tidewater on September 18, 2007, 02:24:29 PM I can actually drive 55, now. (puts on helmet, and depends) You have quite a bit of valve train noise in one of those, that with your arms to the horizon, and your knees in your throat, then there is the gear mesh... it's a great car, thank Nick Cage for making that unaffordable. M Post by: phantom309 on September 18, 2007, 02:44:30 PM
Valve noise when the lash isn't set properly. The values have REALLY gone crazy in the last 2 years. The Cage car that really went for the big bucks (at the time) was the former Shah of Iran car, he also had an SVJ that went for insane money in 2003. Now, an SV will set you back 800K US pretty easily. Gandini had a good day that day. The only complaint I had with the car, and the biggest reason I sold it is the parts supply...which is dwindling rapidly. You can't get some parts at all anymore. Water pump seals for example.....carb jets (no more Weber)....windshield wipers that aren't to long, speedo drive units. On and on. At least with the E type (my vote for number 2) you can still get most anything you need. And I agree with Keith, that car was born to go topless. Post by: mgod on September 19, 2007, 11:28:54 AM
But its just you and one passenger - lets not forget we're musicians after all, need space. The biggest reason I didn't go for the Espada was that I can't get one into my driveway - so that means garaging it elsewhere, and driving to it in order to drive it - stupid. DS Post by: phantom309 on September 19, 2007, 11:43:47 AM
Yeah...4 inches of clearance and your driveway would NOT get along well, Dan. Beautiful house tho...and you can keep a lot more basses in it than an Espada. Post by: mgod on September 19, 2007, 01:38:07 PM An old friend of mine gutted his brand new NSX the first time he came over. Well, that's why god invented street parking. DS Post by: PRobb on September 19, 2007, 02:17:53 PM Post by: PRobb on September 19, 2007, 02:19:24 PM Post by: mgod on September 19, 2007, 02:30:18 PM Went to an EYE-talian car concourse here a few years ago and Mr. Leno pulled up in something like that first one, a 37 blue one. He stopped right next to me and when he stepped out, I said "Hi Batman!" He looked at me with his eyebrows raised and I nodded at the car, and he got it. We had a nice talk about Lamborghinis - he really encouraged me to buy an Espada, insisting that I could drive it every day. I asked if he did, and he said "I've got 85 cars, I don't drive anything every day." He's got 2 Muiras and an Espada, but that Buggatti of his might be the most stunning car I've ever seen. DS Post by: Berolzheimer on September 19, 2007, 03:32:05 PM
Mythbusters did some serious injustice to an X1-9. It took a bit of searching but I finally found this video online: http://www.asemblr.com/player.php?id=770 Post by: mgod on September 19, 2007, 05:14:56 PM http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/25_most_beautiful _cars/0609_talbot_lago_figoni_falaschi_coupe http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2861/Talbot-Lago-T150C-SS -Figoni-%2526-Falaschi-Teardrop-Coupe.html DS Post by: J.J. Blair on September 19, 2007, 08:08:57 PM 
Post by: PRobb on September 19, 2007, 08:26:33 PM
Great Leno story. the guy is a serious collector. P.S.- although Ettore Bugatti was Italian, the company was French. Post by: mgod on September 19, 2007, 08:36:31 PM DS Post by: ssltech on September 19, 2007, 08:50:07 PM
180MPH? -I don't think they went quite THAT fast. -There WAS a one-off with twin-superchargers (one on each cylinder bank) that did go faster, but it was called soemthing different, and I don't think an Avanti EVER went that fast. -Don't get me wrong, they were quick though!!! However, lotsa people tell me how pretty that car is. There's a cream one two streets over and a black (series II) one which I see at the light here from time to time... I really don't ever see any 'beauty' in the car. -I keeptrying to see what people see as 'pretty', but I just can't see it. One man's meat, I suppose. Leno: Boyoboy... He may love cars, but he damn near killed himself in a CGT last year... that car gets VERY front-light at speed, and he did the unthinkable in a corner. -Seriously... when the world is going pear-shaped, I know your instincts may say hit the brakes, but there's video of it, and what he did next was something NO race driver would EVER do... -almost killed himself AND one other driver. He may like cars, but he's not race driver! Keith Post by: dcollins on September 19, 2007, 11:55:34 PM http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ssM-xjp--rg In a 6.9L Merc!? DC Post by: J.J. Blair on September 20, 2007, 02:34:02 AM
OK, I was off by 10 mph. Sue me: "During the summer and fall of 1962, Granatelli took several Studebakers to the Bonneville Salt Flats, including an R-3 Avanti in which he reached a record speed of 170.78 mph. By the time he was done, Granatelli had set or broken 34 U.S. land speed records in the Avanti, allowing Studebaker to proudly proclaim it the "World's Fastest Production Car"." Post by: max cooper on September 20, 2007, 08:09:28 AM http://www.raymondloewy.com/about/career.html Post by: ssltech on September 20, 2007, 08:45:33 AM Usually you start by removing unnecessary weight like the spare tyre, the jack, everything inside except for the driver seat. -Next etc, just as you would for any 'normal' race. nest you take off the antenna, the door mirrors and -on that car- probably tbe chrome trim etc, then you run aero-tape over all of the shut-lines. It's also not uncommon to try and reduce the radiator aperture, which provides a more 'slippery' front end and is a REALLY big deal up at super-speeds, but with the downside that the car will overheat and destroy an engine (specially if it has a lot of aluminium in it!) in under ten minutes if it isn't pulled off RIGHT at the end of the run! -none of which is usually helped by the fact that manufacturers tend to do a few things like tricks with the ignition for published speed runs... Generally speaking, an all-or-nothing "balls out" 170MPH best effort on salt translates to a real-world top speed of around 160... I'll see if I can dig up the link to some video of Jay Leno's 'incident'... The event was a good example of how a manufacturer (in thei case Porsche) does things to help show their vehicle in the best possible light! Keith Post by: phantom309 on September 20, 2007, 10:33:13 AM Some cars don't make any sense, handling wise, until you get up past 3 digits (the Countach is one good example) but at speeds they feel supple, confident and sure footed. Parallel parking, on the otherhand, is a circus act. The Countach feels like it's on rails at 190. Post by: ssltech on September 20, 2007, 11:08:24 AM http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/index.shtml?vidID=117612 Basically, when the "fat hits the shin" Jay lifts suddenly, and when the cat starts to rotate, he hits the brake... you can even see the brakelights. Then, because of the rise in the track meaning there's no way to see the spot where the spin happened, David Donahue goes out in the OTHER Carrera GT, to see if Leno's even still alive... only to encounter a speeding Leno coming the WRONG WAY down the pit lane! Now they had two CGT's set up for that event; one for drivetrain endurance testing, and the other for sheer flat-out speed testing. On the high-speed (silver) car, even David Donahue said that there was NO front-end downforce at 170MPH, and that all sense of 'weight' in the steering disappeared... and that's in a CGT!!! Basically he was giving steering input and praying that it was the right amount. -If a CGT struggles up there, I know for certain that the Avanti's driving seat would be a UBER-laxative! Actually, it also kinda shows how a manufacturer will set up a car SPECIFICALLY to get a single number. -Not the usual "appliance" cars, -like Camrys or Accords- but any super-high performance car which sells on legally untestable (in most countries) numbers will usually be set up specifcally for the one number. -Lateral -G test cars will have 'optional' sticky tires, selected springs and happen -just by chance- to sit a little lower: Flat-out speed cars will coincidentally have sagged a little at the front... Nice little video which underscores the Coutach's dynamic performance dichotomy: http://youtube.com/watch?v=QbjIBr1CRRM (Jeremy Clarkson... -always good entertainment- from back in the days when the BBC still had him on a shorter leash.) -There's also a video somewhere of him demonstrating how to reverse in one... with the door open, and STILL guessing what's behind! which also underscores the "circus act" commment. -Summed-up nicely, I feel. Keith Post by: phantom309 on September 20, 2007, 05:08:31 PM
Clarkson cracks me up. The ONLY way to backup a countach is with your ass on the sill, door up. It's not as hard as it looks. When you're driving the car, it's no big deal....nothing going on back there but pissed off farmers, ruffled chickens and BMW owners with their fists in the air.
Post by: mgod on October 02, 2007, 12:57:00 PM Post by: ssltech on October 02, 2007, 01:20:01 PM I adore the D Post by: danickstr on October 03, 2007, 10:12:40 PM Post by: mysteron on October 04, 2007, 05:19:25 AM  Here's mine (although it needs a bit of TLC since this pic was taken a couple of years ago) Post by: ssltech on October 04, 2007, 09:14:42 AM -I regularly trawl eBay looking for a garage-queen D Post by: mgod on October 04, 2007, 01:37:52 PM Cost him an arm and a leg to keep it running, but that's OK - he's got another of each. DS Post by: mysteron on October 04, 2007, 02:40:04 PM The gas has been good. I've needed to get a couple of the spheres recharged once in about 9 years. Mechanically it's been surprisingly reliable although I don't use it daily. The bodywork is where they suffer but thankfully mine was stored for 7 years in a dry barn before I bought it and ever since I've owned it I've made sure it's kept dry. It's just a car that makes people smile and there ain't many of those around any more. The only thing that beats it for me is the convertible version. I've looked at a couple but sadly they're way out of my price range.  Post by: PRobb on October 04, 2007, 04:30:44 PM
I love those things. You either think they are beautiful or the ugliest car ever, and that's part of what I like. Nobody looks at that and says "eh". Post by: mgod on October 05, 2007, 10:48:20 PM DS Post by: compasspnt on October 05, 2007, 11:04:17 PM Post by: phantom309 on October 05, 2007, 11:17:22 PM
I think they're Czech. Post by: mgod on October 06, 2007, 12:05:42 AM DS Post by: Tomas Danko on October 06, 2007, 08:28:32 AM Post by: mgod on October 06, 2007, 10:44:28 AM DS Post by: PRobb on October 06, 2007, 10:46:35 AM Post by: PRobb on October 06, 2007, 10:47:52 AM javascript:%20insertTag(document.post_form.msg_body,%20' Post by: phantom309 on October 06, 2007, 10:50:03 AM Post by: PRobb on October 06, 2007, 10:51:49 AM javascript:%20insertTag(document.post_form.msg_body,%20' Post by: mgod on October 06, 2007, 11:10:42 AM (THERE - I SAID IT!) DS Post by: compasspnt on October 06, 2007, 01:23:25 PM
And here is Boadicea herself, in her 2HP "chariot" of choice. http://transsexy.geophys.mcgill.ca/~olivia/BOUDICA/ Post by: mgod on October 07, 2007, 06:01:17 AM http://youtube.com/watch?v=OS-jpEETdFo and: http://youtube.com/watch?v=9i_KyLkKjWE Here's my friend's older Tatra, undergoing restoration in the Czecho-Republica: Post by: mgod on October 07, 2007, 06:02:39 AM Post by: PRobb on October 08, 2007, 01:52:36 PM Post by: theremin on October 09, 2007, 12:39:40 AM  Jason Post by: Tomas Danko on October 12, 2007, 12:22:46 PM I give you, the Phantom Corsair! 
Post by: mgod on October 12, 2007, 01:26:49 PM I saw a 30s Phantom Corsair 6 in a museum show in the 80s, quite obviously Bob Kane's inspiration for the Batmobile. DS Post by: ssltech on October 12, 2007, 03:27:59 PM "23: Ankle-Slicer, (LH/RH N/A)"
Post by: mgod on October 12, 2007, 11:45:58 PM http://www.flyingwombat.com/flyingwombat/index.html Post by: Jay Kadis on October 13, 2007, 12:04:54 PM Dude, are those curb feelers on the Batmobile? Post by: mgod on October 13, 2007, 12:21:51 PM DS Post by: Jay Kadis on October 13, 2007, 12:58:33 PM But he rarely hit the curb while parking. Post by: cerberus on October 20, 2007, 01:18:43 AM design by giorgetto giugiaro, ghia (1966) http://www.qv500.com/detomasoregistrymang0670.php Post by: cerberus on October 20, 2007, 01:50:25 AM design by jason castriota, pininfarina (2006) http://www.supercars.net/cars/3456.html Post by: mgod on October 20, 2007, 11:35:49 AM I need help - I've been saving all these car images, but I downloaded a new version of Firefox, and I can no longer save web images. Wha' happen? DS Post by: compasspnt on October 20, 2007, 01:19:30 PM It was really an amazing vehicle. The later DTM's didn't come up to that one. Dan, it must be some preference that is set wrong. Or just download Opera, and get happy. Post by: mgod on October 20, 2007, 04:00:25 PM Still can't click and save on images though, and I've been through all the prefs, both of Opera and Firefox. Maybe its something else coincidental. DS Post by: compasspnt on October 20, 2007, 04:20:15 PM Post by: ssltech on October 20, 2007, 06:51:54 PM There's no doubt however that a concours-condition Italian supercar in scarlet is like a super-hot mistress. Expensive, dangerous (could cost you EVERYTHING!) but irresistible! I dragged my wife to Maranello one time... She actually enjoyed it! (she's a keeper!) Keith Post by: mgod on October 20, 2007, 10:47:49 PM
Well thanks for that. Weird, but in all my years on a Mac, which is quite a few, I've never had to do that. Since OS X I've just single-clicked on the image and held the button and the "save" option came up - Netscape or Firefox. So it must be a mouse pref that changed itself. I noticed this with OS X. My audio settings will mysteriously alter themselves, panning to right or left and out of center, all by itself. Am I alone in this? Thanks again. DS Post by: cerberus on October 21, 2007, 01:47:03 AM
can you id the car behind the tree? i'm not sure why it belongs there. jeff dinces Post by: ssltech on October 21, 2007, 08:52:43 AM My instinct suggests that it May have the lines of a Triumph, but that makes me wonder why it'd be in such august company... -Then again, there's what looks like an MG-C next to it... but again, -hard to tell with any certainty. Keith Post by: compasspnt on October 21, 2007, 09:31:54 AM That particular Mangusta is the rarest of all the 400 ever made. It belongs to Dick Ruzzin, who used to work at GM. All Mangustas for the US were built with 215 HP Ford 289 CI V8 engines. The Mangusta had a ZF 5 speed transaxle as used in Grand Prix cars; the body was designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro at Ghia. The name Mangusta was given to the car as it was originally seen as a challenger to the Ford Cobra. The Mongoose of course is the natural enemy of the Cobra. When Bill Mitchell, Vice president of Design for General Motors saw the car at the Turin Auto Show in 1968 he spoke to Alesandro DeTOMASO about buying one, but he wanted an engine from GM instead of a Ford. When Mitchell returned to the US, he called Zora Arcus Duntov for an engine and a yet to be released 350 HP Corvette engine was specially built, tested and sent to Italy where it was installed in Mangusta MA-670 at the factory. It is the only car known that was not built with a Ford engine. The one we were privileged to drive had the Ford, and it was certainly fast enough for us! Post by: mgod on October 21, 2007, 01:28:09 PM DS Post by: mgod on October 21, 2007, 01:42:23 PM Post by: cerberus on October 21, 2007, 03:53:31 PM who made those models? are they easy to find now? jeff dinces Post by: mgod on October 21, 2007, 06:29:14 PM DS Post by: PRobb on October 21, 2007, 09:54:27 PM Post by: cerberus on October 22, 2007, 12:02:22 AM
did not reach my local toystore. unfortunately, mom repo'd my mangusta; "you're too old to play with that!"
jeff dinces Post by: ssltech on October 22, 2007, 09:37:04 AM
Could be a 'B' OR a 'C'. The same body, but the 'C' had a straight-six engine instead of an inline-4, and a slight hood bulge to accomodate it, and one or two VERY subtle front end distinguishing features, but most people would nontheless still look at it and say "MGB". Straight-line power was VASTLY improved over it's near-identical twin the 'B', but understeer was the watchword. On damp roundabouts I could damn-near guarantee sphincter-tentioning understeer at anything north of 7MPH! Here's an MG-C:  and a similar-age 'B':  In the photo in question, I thought I could detect the merest shadow of a hood bulge rather more along the lines of a 'C' than a 'B', but it's RIGHT at the crop line, so I wouldn't swear to it. The car behind the tree is DEFINITELY not an XJ-S: I'd swear to it in court. Good thought with the Tiger/Alpine, but two features on the rear fender appear to rule that out: The rear side-reflector portion of the tail light, and -just below it- the 'wrap-around' on the rear bumper looks way too long. The Alpine and Tiger both had more "sweep-away" trailing lines on the rear wheel-arches, whereas the TR5 and 6 were more closely "tucked-in". The TR-6 is the more likely candidate, methinks. Tiger:  TR5:  TR6:  If I had to, I'd put money on the TR6, -and I'm not a gambling man... Keith Post by: cerberus on October 22, 2007, 04:01:06 PM lovely mgs and triumphs thanks keith! jeff dinces Post by: rnicklaus on October 22, 2007, 04:17:28 PM I see the occasional Alpine, or Tiger, TR3, MGA, MGB, Midget, Sprite, AH 3000 but I can't remember when I noticed a TR4 or 6 in a long while. I even saw a Jensen Healy recently. Post by: PRobb on October 22, 2007, 04:20:45 PM Post by: tatraphile on November 08, 2007, 11:36:54 PM ps thanks for the photo plug, I saw it on the dutch tatra site Post by: cerberus on April 24, 2009, 10:09:54 PM  bertone mantide: design by jason castriota, (2009) hmm. took some getting used to, but i've been staring at the pictures for plenty long enough now. bertone fans will know the dna. jeff dinces Post by: ssltech on April 25, 2009, 09:29:08 AM "Inside Project 'M'" http://www.motorauthority.com/....html i understand that it's a concept, but I have some questions about the 'hidden agenda' of some parts of the design: Screengrab of rear:  ...looks like a pissed-off version of this to me:  Keith Post by: phantom309 on April 26, 2009, 12:00:30 AM
Stratos a little miura...a little rounder countach information Post by: ssltech on April 26, 2009, 07:54:32 AM
-In this thread I also posted the following two pictures:
-I wonder if one Mantide would command an army of clone Amperas... -The anticipated production quantities certainly seem to support the possibility... Keef Post by: ssltech on April 27, 2009, 11:49:39 AM    Keith Post by: ssltech on August 09, 2010, 01:31:24 PM Possibly restored in the same place as we saw earlier... You never know! Keith Post by: RSettee on August 09, 2010, 06:50:08 PM
Man that's cool! I didn't know about the Tatra. Sounds like he got a bargain if he put 60 grand into it, considering that they were going for 125 grand by the time that he finished restoring it. A big dorsal fin on the back--definetely weird. But a neat car. |
