R/E/P Community
R/E/P => Mastering Dynamics => Topic started by: Gold on March 21, 2011, 10:29:39 PM
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I just had this puppy made for me by Daniel Zellman and John French. It is a preview (pre-listen) tape machine for lacquer cutting. I believe it is the only 1" preview deck in existence. If I am wrong about the exclusivity please let me know!
I have three of these A80 preview decks. One set up as a 1/4", another as a 1/2" and now this to complete the collection. This deck was pieced together from what was my "parts" deck and another 1" transport from a layback machine. I realized that most parts could still be bought new. There was no reason to pull anything off that machine.
I sourced a NOS 1" capstan motor so that went in. It has new brake drums, bands and dashpots. The electronics were gone over with a fine tooth comb by Dan Zellman. Each of the Flux Magnetics head sections had widely varying impedance. Dan tweaked each channel to match the heads. He recapped and put in an 8DIP socket for modern opamps. He also removed some unnecessary circuitry for a playback only machine like the bias trap.
There were other nice touches that I wanted. The gain range on the level pots was always to large. I had him tweak it so there is good resolution for common levels centered around 250nW/M. I also had him install a light indicator for CCIR. He found LED lamps that look like the original Studer lamps.
John French made the head stack. He was able to source the extra rollers needed. He ended up with ceramic rollers. It's nice because they won't wear out.
Both Dan and John were very excited about the build. Dan has a test tape (BASF?) that has tons of frequencies on it. It is remarkably flat at 15ips. It was +/- .5dB from 20Hz-20KHz (except the head bump). The azimuth looked rock solid too. He didn't have the same multitone test tape for 30ips. He contacted MRL but he isn't doing custom tapes anymore. No way to check if 30ips is as good as 15ips but he thinks it's probably is.
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/a80-1s.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/a80-2s.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/a80-3s.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/a80-4s.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/a80-5s.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/a80-6s.jpg)
Here is a look at the A/B path cutting console I'm building. Obviously not done but despite the unfinished look it it well on it's way.
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/shakerdesk-1.jpg)
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awesome - nice works
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Wow, that is awesome, Paul. The deck is a work of art, can you tell us more about the new console as well?
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Wow. . that is genuinely lovely.
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That looks fantastic Paul. I'd also like to know more about the new console.
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Thanks guys. I still have yet to hear program on it. I know someone who has some mixes on 1" but he has to dig them out of a storage space. If anyone in NY has some 1" masters and wants a free acetate, act now! I want to take it for a spin!
I've been working on the console for about five years. I have very little time to work on it. The last time I worked on it was January. I estimate two solid weeks of bench time to finish prototyping everything. I'm planning on taking a one week "vacation" to work on it. It's hard to turn down work to do it, but I'm always booked solid. I think it's the only way.
It's an A/B path console. It has two identical transfer paths with a switch at the output. This is so you can set up path A for song one and path B for song two. When you switch to the B path for song two you set up the A path for song three. You keep flip flopping until the side is over.
The transfer path is: source select/input amplifier - high frequency limiter - insert send - pico compressor - barry porter EQ - DAOC compressor - Sontecish EQ - insert return - HPF/LPF - elliptical EQ - Output Amplifier - A/B switch - to recorders.
The monitor is a full H pad. All Inputs and outputs are balanced. I can select 32 stereo sources. There are 16 buttons but they are stacked with a toggle switch selector. 16 preview sources and 16 program sources. I have Wayne Kirkwood's MS board to do a mono sum and difference. I can monitor passive stereo or active mono, mono L, mono R, and difference.
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That's sick, Paul. Def keep us updated as you are abel to find time to work on it...
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Congrats!
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Nice very nice.
I haven't seen a A-80 since I left Nashville. Looks to be in GREAT condition.
Your custom console also looks GREAT!!!
Are you doing the custom metal work and the electronics?
Best of luck! I can't wait to see the final pictures of the console and hear what you think of the A-80.
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Here are some more shots of console pieces.
Monitor controller. It's a Shallco full H pad. Thirty position switch in 1.5 dB steps. The push buttons control two Broadcast Tools 16x2 relay switchers. The front panel controls are source select, Mute L toggle switch, Mute R toggle switch, and Preview/Modulation select toggle. The rotary switch selects Stereo, Mono, and Difference. L mono is selected by muting R and selecting mono on the rotary switch. The face plates won't look like this.
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/monitor-1s.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/monitor-2s.jpg)
One of two PSU's. Preview and modulation paths have separate power supplies. This one has two +/- 15v, +12v and +5v. The other one will have two +/- 24v, +/- 15v and +12v. Many of the units can take either IC's which typically run +/-15v and discrete op-amps which commonly take +/-24v. I have a bunch of extra connectors on the PSU's so listening tests and experimentation with different op-amps is easy. I thought long and hard about how best to set up the system for listening tests. I am always frustrated at how difficult it is to conduct them. The barrier strip will be replaced by the Phoenix DIN rail power connector on the edge. The banana connections are there so I can monitor/log the power rails. I've always been interested in what happens to the rails under load.
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/PSU-1s.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/PSU-2s.jpg)
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WOW @ that Shallco monitor switch - impressive!
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Double wow. Deeply awesome man.
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Would you be as kind as to explain what "preview" means with the tape deck?
cheers
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Would you be as kind as to explain what "preview" means with the tape deck?
It is the signal that feeds the lathe cutting computer that automatically adjusts the groove spacing and the groove depth. The computer needs to see the audio about 1/2 revolution before the program or modulation signal.
There are two playback heads on the deck. The one furthest to the left is the preview head. Depending on the tape speed and the record speed you wind the tape around the rollers on the head stack differently to maintain the correct delay times for the cutting computer at 33 1/3 rpm and 45 rpm.
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Excellent looking stuff, Paul!
Your Shallco is way bigger than mine. Now can I see that in 5.1?
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Thanks Jaakko. I forgot to mention the monitor attenuator is 10k input impedance 5k output impedance. Shallco could only figure out how to do it as a full T pad. I had asked for a bridged T to save four decks. 12 decks for stereo.
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Love the 1" Studer half-track preview.
Curious about the Shallco... Regular bridged H-pads are 4 decks for 2-channels (balanced). You have preview and program (ergo, 8 decks?)... What are the four extra decks for? Also, why is the output Z different from the input? Thought the T's and H's were symmetrical wrt i/o Z...
Thanks,
Andrew
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Regular bridged H-pads are 4 decks for 2-channels (balanced). You have preview and program (ergo, 8 decks?)...
It's not a bridged H, it's a full H. Four more decks for the same number of channels. I wanted a 10k:5K impedance ratio. It's the best compromise I could think of for a passive attenuator. It presents a bridging load to the monitor source and lowish enough source impedance to the monitor power amplifier.
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Wowee Paul
I thought I had the overengineering bug bad ...
but you are officially the winner .. !
I guess can retire hurt... with pride now :)
Best post I have looked at in a LOOONG time
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It's not a bridged H, it's a full H...
So much for that "confounded bridge!"
Andrew
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I'm a little surprised no one asked the obvious question. "Why would you do something so stupid? No one will ever use it". The answer is "I know, I did it because I wanted to".
Same with the console. Tons of blood and treasure in. Absolutely no resale value out.
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I'm a little surprised no one asked the obvious question. "Why would you do something so stupid? No one will ever use it". The answer is "I know, I did it because I wanted to".
To be fair, I've been trying to rationalize getting a 1" conversion for my A80 for some time now, so while the through crossed my mind, I was shamed into not asking it. hehe
That said, I think I've had one client ever ask if I could handle 1". I've always figured I'd just rent a unit if it ever came up...
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That said, I think I've had one client ever ask if I could handle 1". I've always figured I'd just rent a unit if it ever came up...
I had Mike Spitz add the 1" mechanical conversion to my ATR but I didn't buy the headstack - I rent that when needed from Blackbird (which is not too often).
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Are the knurled knobs behind the heads custom vernier azimuth adjusts or little grab-handles for the assembly?
Laarsų
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Are the knurled knobs behind the heads custom vernier azimuth adjusts?
Yes.
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The answer is "I know, I did it because I wanted to".
Good answer!
GR
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Stupid ?
no Paul
first it looks like a child dream wich is great to realise ! ;)
second there'll be one time where almost no facility will still have AB vinyl transfert console and such tape players with preview and program heads running fine
than you'll be the one !!!
one of my favorite "modern" vinyl is AAA,
LOW, Trust ,
and it's one of the very best sounding in my collection.
I'm a little surprised no one asked the obvious question. "Why would you do something so stupid? No one will ever use it". The answer is "I know, I did it because I wanted to".
Same with the console. Tons of blood and treasure in. Absolutely no resale value out.
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Finally a view of the console! Awesome Paul, i know you have been working on it for a while.
What frame is that?
Btw, you still have that powder gun?
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Custom vernier adjusts?
Yes.
I was only kidding...
Domine spectabilis! This machine should be named, Hrunting (the sword which was used by Beowulf to slay the grim Grendel... Just don't use it to play any tapes by Grendel's mom! (; )
Tell you what, Paul, it aint just Hedwig who's gonna be angry about that inch you just had made...
:D Laarsų
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Finally a view of the console! Awesome Paul, i know you have been working on it for a while.
What frame is that?
Btw, you still have that powder gun?
I had the frame made. It can be filled with sand. The open sides will be plugged up with fabric stretched across frames. The frames will attach to the lip of the cutouts with velcro. It's two sections that bolt together with the arm rest and over bridge length to form the middle section.
I have the powder gun but I don't plan on using it. Setting up a booth/box with good ventilation is work. My workshop is windowless and packed. I've decided my energies are best spent elsewhere. I think I'll give it to the guy who made the frame. I'll want him to make me a matching rack or two eventually. He sent the frame out for powder coating but wanted the gun.
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I had a test run a little while ago. Brendan Brown from Wheatus was kind enough to bring over some mixes on 1". We cut an acetate. All systems go.
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/oneinchbrendan.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/oneinchfront.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/oneinchstudio.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/oneinchwheatus.jpg)
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SWEET, Paul!
How'd it sound?
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Paul,
Thanks for the pictures. it's nice to put a room with a name. Now, how about a face?
;)
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How'd it sound?
It sounded very good. I use a cheap AT cart for playback. When we switched over to playback Brendan got a big ol' smile on his face. I thought it sounded good too. I guess I should say it made me come instantly, but I don't have that kind of hyperbole in me.
The cart is about half way through it's life. Since I often play back as I'm recording acetates the magnets in the cart are weakened by the cutter head magnets. At least that's what I think is going on. After a couple months the cart has no high end. This one is a little dull but not too bad. I order the carts by the dozen.
Allen, there is a face. It's just not mine. I'm ramping up the narcissim. Pictures to follow.
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You are my hero Paul. Nice stuff.
I actually just used our Studer A80VU 2tr. Preview Deck yesterday (we have 1/4" and 1/2" heads) and forgot how good it sounds. I love our Ampex ATR102 (only 1/2" for us) but the Studer has a different sound that's a great alternative to have. Calibrating is so easy with the knobs on top.
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Hi, It's ABOUT TIME someone made a 1" for vinyl mastering!!! This is AMAZING news!. I mix to a 1" ATR @ 15 ips, IEC & have an MRL I could bring so you could look at the response at 30ips as well. I have a few 1" masters I could bring in to NYC as I live just a half hour out. CONGRATS!!!
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Hi, It's ABOUT TIME someone made a 1" for vinyl mastering!!! This is AMAZING news!. I mix to a 1" ATR @ 15 ips, IEC & have an MRL I could bring so you could look at the response at 30ips as well. I have a few 1" masters I could bring in to NYC as I live just a half hour out. CONGRATS!!!
Thanks! I have a three tone test tape. I just bought a multitone 1" MRL from ebay. It's new and sealed. I hope it's in good shape. We'll see...
I've been talking to Mike Spitz about making a custom pinch roller that will pull and center the tape better than the multi section pinch roller that is on there.
You are welcome to stop by and take her for a spin. Your productions have brightened many of my days. I'd like to know what you think of it.
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*temporary bump while thread porting from old forums happens*
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Hi Paul: This is one of the most impressive builds I've seen, congratulations on that 1" deck. Out of curiosity, how much of the cutting work you get comes in on analog? And a couple of questions about the console--is that an A/B desk with preview (four identical signal paths)? What are you using for the high frequency limiter and elliptical eq?
Very inspiring work, thanks for sharing.
Best,
James
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Out of curiosity, how much of the cutting work you get comes in on analog?
Thanks James. I get projects on tape that go to lacquer often. Most of the time they are captured in the DAW and cut form there. I do direct tape to lacquer mastering less often but regularly. I don't have an A/B path setup now so the circumstances have to be right for it to happen. If it's a 7" it's no problem and I do those pretty often.
And a couple of questions about the console--is that an A/B desk with preview (four identical signal paths)?
What are you using for the high frequency limiter and elliptical eq?
Yes both the A and B paths are four channels. I have two Maselec MDS2's. Those are the only commercial units in the build and the only units that are in the program path only. Otherwise the program and preview paths are identical.
For the EE's I had PCB's laid out. It's the Neumann EE77 circuit with some changes. The FET switching was removed. I'm using a rotary switch and I'll have 12 frequency selections. I tacked on THAT balanced In's and Out's and made all the opamps singles.
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What are you using to do the A/B path switching? Is everything else on Shallco rotaries as well? Again, very impressive. Hope to be able to see the console in person one day.
James
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What are you using to do the A/B path switching?
I'm having it built for me. It has three positions. A or B or X fade. The switching is done with SSM2402's. The crossfade circuit hasn't been hammered out yet. It needs to crossfade eight channels so a pot is hard to source.
Is everything else on Shallco rotaries as well?
Shallco's are only in a few select places. I have 45 position switches for both the Input and Output amplifiers, for +/- 11dB in .5dB steps. The 8 pole 5 position transfer path source select switch is also Shallco. Almost all the rest of the switches are Electroswitch C4. For the compressor threshold switches I used Elma 04.
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This past week was console vacation week. No studio work was done except for about six hours of cutting on Thursday which couldn't be avoided.
Below are the Input Amplifier and Output Amplifier. I did most of the work on the Input Amplifier around Christmas. I finished it up this week and did the Output Amplifier and some other stuff this past week.
The top unit is the Input Amplifier. The bottom unit is the Output Amplifier. The Input Amplifier has Source Select, Level Adjusters, and Process Chain Insert. The Output Amplifier has Level Adjusters and Fader.
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/InOutFront.jpg)
It's really hard to get XLR's straight. I spent a lot of time on the Input Amplifier and I'm pretty happy with how straight I got everything. I got a little lazy on the output amplifier. Oh well.
All audio connections are on 5 pin XLR's.
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/InOutBack.jpg)
This is the inside of the Input Amplifier. I'm using JLM Audio Dingo PCB's for both the Input and Output Amplifiers. The Dingo's are a line receiver and a line driver with gain on a single board. They are made to accommodate either 8DIP IC's or discrete opamps in the 2520 form factor. Listening tests are later.
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/InOpenBack.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/InClose1.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/SourceSelect.jpg)
This is the inside of the Output Amplifier. There is much less routing and wiring for this. That's a P&G RF15 for the output fader. Here is a close up of the Shallco T pad attenuators. Each one is two channels.
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/OutClose1.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/OutAtten.jpg)
(http://www.saltmastering.com/a80/P&G.jpg)
I have about another week or two of prototyping and then assembly can begin.
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Wow, VERY nice - did you do all the construction? Those Shallcos look incredibly tedious but awesome.
I'm super impressed.
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Shallco made the attenuators but I did the assembly of the units. It's very time consuming to do all the hand wiring but I enjoy it. The attenuators use IRC 0.1% resistors at almost a buck a pop. I couldn't get every needed value so I hand matched the few values that weren't available with run of the mill resistors and sent all the parts to Shallco. The attenuators are +/- 0.1 dB accuracy.
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Incredible. Marchand sent a (hand written) sheet of paper with the stereo matching with my attenuator, iirc it was matched to 0.1dB as well.
Are those JLM Audio line buffers there? How do you like those?
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Are those JLM Audio line buffers there? How do you like those?
I like the functionality because you can use chips or discrete op amps. I decided I wanted the topology of the Input and Output Amplifiers to be line receiver-attenuator-line driver. I thought it provided the most flexibility for experimentation. I didn't want to box myself into a corner by committing to a topology that would have to be scrapped to be changed. This meant going with the giant switches instead of a less expensive solution.
The boards are clever but utilitarian. Change the amplifier and change the sound. It is a four resistor differential line receiver. John Roberts burst my bubble by saying it is unbalanced if the definition of unbalanced is both legs having a common impedance to ground. Most would call it a balanced receiver because it is differential but the CMRR is not nearly as good as fancier topologies or a transformer.
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How do you like the Electroswitch C4's? The P&G is a nice touch.
Not nearly as elaborate as your console, but here's a picture of mine before it got wired up (gain offset in 0.5dB's, 5 inserts, including one MS loop with variable gain and one pair that can be swapped in order. The Alps pot is for the headphone amp.)
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss186/klangumwandler/Fei_Console_switches.jpg)
And the finished console:
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss186/klangumwandler/Fei_Room.jpg)
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How do you like the Electroswitch C4's?
I like them. I went with them because they were the least expensive switch that was high enough quality. They have a clunkier feel than a Grayhill 54 or Electroswitch C5 but you can run over them with a truck. To do it in C5's or Grayhills would have been about 3k more.
That's a nice looking console.
Edit: That's a nice Wohler Metering unit you have. I like those things.
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Thanks Paul. The meter is actually made by B&B. The scope isn't great if you're used to a good scope (I see you have a HP 1200 as well--which has a very sharp trace), but fine for basic X-Y monitoring. Above it is my Pico compressor.
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss186/klangumwandler/BB_Scope.jpg)
Thought you might get a kick out of this Daven (7 Pole Bridged-T), it was the master fader for an old cinema install. Not as impressive as that full-H Shallco, but the wirewound resistors are nice:
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss186/klangumwandler/Daven.jpg)
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Hey James - I think the earlier versions were made by B&B and the later ones by Wohler? That's my guess. Did Wohler buy B&B at some point? Don't know a thing about a history of these companies. I have three of these units and they all say Wohler on the front and B&B on the back panel. Also looking for a manual - ever seen one? For other parts, the festoon bulbs for the VUs are easy to find but have you ever had to replace the CRT?
If anyone's looking, the trick for buying a used one is to make sure none of the scope positioning knobs are broken off. One always seems to be broken off - the past 10 I've seen on eBay have been that way. I guess you could replace it but it's pretty packed inside that enclosure and I'm lazy. Sorry for the miniature distraction - back to worshiping the 1" Studer!
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Hey James - I think the earlier versions were made by B&B and the later ones by Wohler? That's my guess. Did Wohler buy B&B at some point? Don't know a thing about a history of these companies. I have three of these units and they all say Wohler on the front and B&B on the back panel. Also looking for a manual - ever seen one? For other parts, the festoon bulbs for the VUs are easy to find but have you ever had to replace the CRT?
If anyone's looking, the trick for buying a used one is to make sure none of the scope positioning knobs are broken off. One always seems to be broken off - the past 10 I've seen on eBay have been that way. I guess you could replace it but it's pretty packed inside that enclosure and I'm lazy. Sorry for the miniature distraction - back to worshiping the 1" Studer!
As far as I know, these things were always made by B&B systems.
B&B systems are still in business and will repair the AM series meters.
http://www.bandbsystems.com/ (http://www.bandbsystems.com/)
I have an AM3B and all 4 pots were broken off. Funny thing is that once I calibrated the scope , it hasn't been touched in almost 5 years. I was lazy like you so rather than replace the pots, I just took out my dremel and cut a groove in the broken shaft so I could tweek the pot with a greenie. I actually find that it is better without the adjustments on the front panel for somebody to accidentally change.
All the best,
-mark
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Hey James - I think the earlier versions were made by B&B and the later ones by Wohler? That's my guess. Did Wohler buy B&B at some point? Don't know a thing about a history of these companies. I have three of these units and they all say Wohler on the front and B&B on the back panel. Also looking for a manual - ever seen one? For other parts, the festoon bulbs for the VUs are easy to find but have you ever had to replace the CRT?
Hi Josh: I've never seen a Wohler branded version of the scope meter (mine is the AM-2B), and don't know the relation of those two companies. Also, thankfully, I've never had to repair the scope portion. The pots are easy to replace, but I'd watch out for dead CRT's if buying used, it might not be worth the cost of repairs at this point. You probably know this already, but there are a set of trim pots to calibrate the levels for the peak/vu meters and x-y.
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just wandered onto this thread. Nice work Dan, and great job Paul.
a note re cartridges, you should try demaging the carts to see if they aren't getting magged by the way you use them. Various ways to do this, including running a ramped 5hz or lower tone thru them (with plenty of level), ramp the turn on and off. If you have a hp200cd, try that as your source.
also thought I should add these pictures of an old school disc mastering console that I have kicking around here, the guy I got it from said it was from United Western, but I can't necessarily believe him. Definitely from LA.
Alan Garren
Waltzing Bear Audio
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you should try demaging the carts to see if they aren't getting magged by the way you use them. Various ways to do this, including running a ramped 5hz or lower tone thru them (with plenty of level), ramp the turn on and off.
That's a very good idea. It could save me some money and the time fiddling with tiny mounting screws. I just installed a new cartridge yesterday. I can probably dig the old one out of the trash and try it.
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In the last two weeks I've done five albums direct from tape to lacquer. That's way more than usual. None from 1" but that's not too surprising. It's so much more fun than the regular way.
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That's awesome new, Paul.
Do you have a full A/B path now or is that still a work in progress?
Very cool rig you have...
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No A/B console yet. A few weeks ago I made some good progress on redoing the BP EQ. I had wanted to make it as a six band EQ by splitting out the shelving sections. The bus became too long and oscillated so I'm redoing it as intended. I hope to get to work on it this weekend but that's what I say almost every weekend. Work intrudes. When I get that prototyped that's everything except for the A/B switch which I'm contracting out. Then I'll start doing systems inteface type stuff to see if my plan is going to work.
I'm doing them now with my regular two channel setup. Changes on the fly. Preview offsets to pack the grooves. Gotta be on my toes.
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Sounds fun. You should shoot some video of yourself cutting a side sometime so we can watch - I know I'd enjoy it.
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I'll try to make that happen. I think it would have to be someone else. For these I have to keep focused even while I'm twiddling my thumbs waiting for the next song.