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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Fletcher => Topic started by: breathe on March 18, 2010, 06:37:40 PM

Title: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 18, 2010, 06:37:40 PM
I am fucking serious.  I WILL OVERTAKE YOU.  I may be naive but I have a value system that drives everything that I do.  If you seriously feel that everything that could be done has been done before then fucking check out of this situation and check into a retirement home.  There is NO USE for cynicism in the facilitation of art.

Nicholas




Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 18, 2010, 06:52:54 PM
Brian Paulson seems like he still gives a fuck.  Steve Fisk is totally lost in Pro Tools mixing bullshit.  HAVE  A FUCKING VALUE SYSTEM.

Nicholas



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: meverylame on March 18, 2010, 07:01:08 PM
"To accept the things I cannot change .... and the wisdom to know the difference."

Seems that this never sunk in huh?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 18, 2010, 07:17:18 PM
Martin Bisi is still doing good shit.

Nicholas



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 18, 2010, 07:20:38 PM
Why is it so obvious who is doing good shit and why is this obviousness lost on so many engineers?

Nicholas



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jetbase on March 18, 2010, 07:29:28 PM
Sounds like you're getting cynical about engineers Nicholas. Just switch your computer off & get out there & do your thing while you have the energy. Music is a healer. Don't forget to breathe.

G
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: danickstr on March 18, 2010, 07:41:10 PM
All my bases are belong to you.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: leonardo valvassori on March 18, 2010, 07:45:18 PM
Too busy to worry about it really.

and I'm way over 40.

Ta.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: KB_S1 on March 18, 2010, 07:53:21 PM
I am reminded of the bosses office scene in Fight Club.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on March 18, 2010, 08:50:11 PM
Thank you for warning everyone that you are in Austin.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: grantis on March 18, 2010, 09:02:13 PM
i work for one.  nicest guy you'll find anywhere too.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on March 18, 2010, 09:16:27 PM
Use the left lane when passing, remember to use turn signals.  
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: John Ivan on March 18, 2010, 09:39:50 PM
Funny you should mention all this..

I'm just coming through a period where I had a pretty cynical view of nearly everything. I thought Music had changed so much that what I had to offer didn't matter anymore.. This was just me being lazy though... Sure, there are things about record making that I don't like these days.. But who said I have to work that way? Why does this mean I have to take a dim view of MY part in all this..

I took a long break.. Sat down in a chair, did a lot of reading, a lot of talking and listened to a lot of music.. I'm starting some gigging again and feel really great... It's still true!! If you walk on and truly give 100% and show people the love you have for music, share the music you have in your heart with them, they will respond in a positive way. I have proof ;-}

I have to remember, the average listener doesn't burden themselves with all this crap about "over editing" and "ottotune" or what ever else I don't like about some records. They still want me to do what I've always done.. Make music my way. Sing my way. Make a recording that sounds like me, my way.. Cover this or that with my own twist..

As a 45 year old who has done nothing but music his whole life, I can say the following: If I don't like what I'm hearing sometimes out there in radio land or where ever. I can do my part to change it by simply writing tunes and recording them. This wont change how others do it, but why sit on the side lines? Again, people want great tunes and great performances. They aren't wrestling with "method".. I believe I can still move them.. They don't care whether I do it "The old way" or not.. They just want to be moved by it..

I see it as my job to do this..Write and record things I love so I can share it with other people. Period.. That's why I'm here..


If what I have to say to young people about all this is true, I should be able to play it for them! Show them.. "see, this is why a band sounds great when they play as a band"..and so on.. Show them how/why.. Help them..

Long winded.. Sorry.

Ivan.......................
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dale Francis on March 18, 2010, 10:30:08 PM
breathe wrote on Thu, 18 March 2010 18:37

I am fucking serious.  I WILL OVERTAKE YOU.  I may be naive but I have a value system that drives everything that I do.  If you seriously feel that everything that could be done has been done before then fucking check out of this situation and check into a retirement home.  There is NO USE for cynicism in the facilitation of art.

Nicholas







damn myopic and jaundice viewpoint
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on March 18, 2010, 10:38:51 PM
Nicolas, in all seriousness, you need to understand that this music recording "business" is full of people who think as you first posted here...by definition.

If one does not think what you are working on RIGHT NOW is great, then why are they there at all?


Every single day I wake up and say to myself, "Great, I am 18 years old, I love making music, and I get to go do it again today!"

Most people I know in this biz (but not all) have a similar attitude.  If they didn't love it, didn't give it their all, they would probably find something else to do.

I think I have done some of my best work ever this year.  Time will tell of course.  But I learn something new and exciting almost every day in the studio. And I have done this now for a few years...and am "almost" forty...

Your attitude is a good thing to have.

Just be sure it does not go to your head, and that you also learn to recognise when you have gone astray.

Best of luck.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Fletcher on March 18, 2010, 11:05:55 PM
danickstr wrote on Thu, 18 March 2010 19:41

All my bases are belong to you.


Dude-- you're showing your age!!  Its been like 10 years since that was floating around the internet!!  

Heh - found it!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hank Alrich on March 19, 2010, 12:58:31 AM
breathe wrote on Thu, 18 March 2010 15:37

I am fucking serious.  I WILL OVERTAKE YOU.  I may be naive but I have a value system that drives everything that I do.  If you seriously feel that everything that could be done has been done before then fucking check out of this situation and check into a retirement home.  There is NO USE for cynicism in the facilitation of art.

Nicholas




I don't think I understand what you're going on about. I'm not at all cynical about my work. My work is not like your work. I have my own first product out (at age 65), and we cut it head-on sans cans, no overdubs, and used all of nine tracks, including the stereo pair.

It has nothing at all to do with pop music, or much of anything mainstream. It's not a big deal. It's a little deal. I produced, played, sang (for some value of "singing"), wrote some of the material, and worked with my trio mates on the arrangements. The music is acoustic, straightforward, not complicated. We used some wonderful gear out at Fred Remmert's place in your new home town, and had a blast.

I like the way it came out. I look forward to doing something like it again.

The hardest part these days is being able to afford a decent space, one that has a good acoustical environment, is nicely isolated from intrusive noise, and is large enough to put everyone together in a room, playing the way they'd normally play. These days home "studios" offer almost none of these virtues, so people figure out all kinds of highly unnatural approaches to tracking. From the gitgo, these approaches almost always preclude a group of musos going about it in a manner approaching the way they'd do it live. So it becomes all about the recording. Please think about that.

There are plenty of ways to go about this. Enjoy your way. Let others enjoy theirs. Understanding a little about what has been done, and how, can help one define a basis from which to develop one's own approach. Understanding how people in groups make real, live music, is a big help if one seeks to get a sense of inspiration across to a listener.

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 19, 2010, 12:37:53 PM
Really?

Here's a little piece of advice:

If you even think you have a shot of overtaking me, then you're going to need to turn off your computer and actually do something.

Everybody's tough on the internet, but it's in the marketplace--that's where I compete.


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 12:46:36 PM
There are some engineers who do something so good that they get a permanent 'pass' no matter how lame they might become later.  I'm listening to Steve Albini's recording of Low's "Secret Name" and I have to pull my jaw off the floor.

Nicholas




Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 12:48:35 PM
CW, so it's the marketplace (ruled by the lowest common denominator of the record buying public) that determines the value of your work?  I'm so sorry.

Nicholas




CWHumphrey wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 09:37

Really?

Here's a little piece of advice:

If you even think you have a shot of overtaking me, then you're going to need to turn off your computer and actually do something.

Everybody's tough on the internet, but it's in the marketplace--that's where I compete.




Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 12:55:04 PM
We totally need to get Tony Robbins involved here.

Nicholas




Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 12:57:53 PM
I don't exist to deride and belittle, I exist to motivate and inspire.  Your ego is like this bank in your gut that you invest into, motivating you to take chances and do your best work.

Nicholas




Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: pete andrews on March 19, 2010, 01:34:55 PM
Quote:

I exist to motivate and inspire.


... and entertain.


-pete
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 19, 2010, 01:38:57 PM
breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 09:48

CW, so it's the marketplace (ruled by the lowest common denominator of the record buying public) that determines the value of your work?  I'm so sorry.

Nicholas



I see how it is, kiddo, you're trying to piss me off.

Well, today is YOUR LUCKY DAY!!

Nicholas, you want to show everybody what you've got?

Let's have a little mix off, right here in Fletcher's forum!

I'll even let you pick the material.

So sonny, put up or shut up.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Tim Halligan on March 19, 2010, 01:52:07 PM
breathe wrote on Sat, 20 March 2010 00:48

CW, so it's the marketplace (ruled by the lowest common denominator of the record buying public) that determines the value of your work?  I'm so sorry.

Nicholas





I suspect very strongly that you don't even realise which marketplace Carter is referring to...


Cheers,
Tim

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: johnR on March 19, 2010, 02:03:46 PM
Nicholas, there are a lot of over-40 engineers on this forum. Surely their presence here (where music is valued more highly than on several other recording fora I can think of) indicates that there are quite a few who remain non-cynical.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hank Alrich on March 19, 2010, 03:40:22 PM
breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 09:48

CW, so it's the marketplace (ruled by the lowest common denominator of the record buying public) that determines the value of your work?  I'm so sorry.

Nicholas




CWHumphrey wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 09:37

Really?

Here's a little piece of advice:

If you even think you have a shot of overtaking me, then you're going to need to turn off your computer and actually do something.

Everybody's tough on the internet, but it's in the marketplace--that's where I compete.







No, he said that to overtake him, or even get close to catching up you will have to DO something. Something besides "talk" it on the Innernetz.

He appreciates the marketplace because he is a professional. He makes a living at this work. Few who pursue it as a sideline will get enough done to make much progress, regardless of their own definition of success.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hank Alrich on March 19, 2010, 03:41:48 PM
Tim Halligan wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 10:52

breathe wrote on Sat, 20 March 2010 00:48

CW, so it's the marketplace (ruled by the lowest common denominator of the record buying public) that determines the value of your work?  I'm so sorry.

Nicholas





I suspect very strongly that you don't even realise which marketplace Carter is referring to...


Cheers,
Tim




Bet it's not where you get your Vegemite.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: danickstr on March 19, 2010, 04:09:24 PM
I am cynical about a signal path altered by gear with cheap components, a mix that does not translate, muddy eq bands full of too much sonic goo, bad levels on record, and takes that should have been re-done.

With those things there to bug me, I am most likely going to be distracted enough to miss the message of the band.

IF the young engineer is not careful enough to beat those and other issues,then ... AYBABTU -   Smile
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 04:41:53 PM
I relish being an agitator, but I don't intend to hurt anyone's feelings.  I would be open to a mix-off.  It would have to be material that I felt passionate about.

Nicholas




CWHumphrey wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 10:38

breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 09:48

CW, so it's the marketplace (ruled by the lowest common denominator of the record buying public) that determines the value of your work?  I'm so sorry.

Nicholas



I see how it is, kiddo, you're trying to piss me off.

Well, today is YOUR LUCKY DAY!!

Nicholas, you want to show everybody what you've got?

Let's have a little mix off, right here in Fletcher's forum!

I'll even let you pick the material.

So sonny, put up or shut up.

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 04:50:50 PM
What is the trajectory of this art???  What defines the "quality" of the product?  Is there some consensus, any consensus, as to what constitutes quality?  As I write this I am recording the San Francisco poet/comedian/motivational writer Bucky Sinister in my home.  I have invited him here because I liked his writing.  I don't think there's anything better to qualify a project other than that you care about it.  The ego is just a promotional device for this.  I could talk loud or be timid and it's just the same.

Nicholas



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 05:05:25 PM
Extroversion is just a device.  It's like a technology.

Nicholas



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on March 19, 2010, 05:25:51 PM
Yo Catwoman,  You can't overtake shit with your puddle in your hand.....

Why would you want to overtake anything anyway?  Is there some prize I am unaware of..  
Insulting people based on their age  --Did you think it would make people feel better?  

I will give you advice too---learn from the older people they know more.... and did not come up in a powder puff world like some of us did....

And really,      insulting Carter....   rethink your moves you only have to inform everyone whom you are once,  

It would be cute that you are enamored with art if you were not so offensive and random about it -  it must be scary to have everything changing all the time.

Sincerely best of luck,  


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: DarinK on March 19, 2010, 05:47:03 PM
breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 13:50

I don't think there's anything better to qualify a project other than that you care about it.


So how do you justify constantly making assumptions about whether other people are passionate or cynical or whatever?  You behave as though you have this perfect inner sense of such things, but I am certain that the vast majority of stuff that you find soul-less did not seem that way to those involved in its creation. It just doesn't happen to resonate with you.

As for your original question, I think a much tougher one would be, "Are there any cynical audio engineers over 40?", because very few would stick it out for that long if they were cynical about it.

As a fellow bi-polar who has mellowed with time, I hope you don't take this as a personal insult, but maybe you are confusing "passion" with "mania."

-Darin  

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on March 19, 2010, 06:27:00 PM
breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 13:41

I relish being an agitator, but I don't intend to hurt anyone's feelings.


Not to piss you off - but this is patent bullshit.  Your intent is obvious.

And I'm probably the least cynical person you'll ever meet.

JW

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cynical
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 06:33:17 PM
That's a good point.

Nicholas



DarinK wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 14:47

breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 13:50

I don't think there's anything better to qualify a project other than that you care about it.


As a fellow bi-polar who has mellowed with time, I hope you don't take this as a personal insult, but maybe you are confusing "passion" with "mania."

-Darin  



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 06:44:37 PM
What's frustrating is how obvious things seem now.  Condescension is just a guilty pleasure, impressing this illusion of an ego onto the physical world.  I'm shocked that Steve Fisk even gives a fuck about what I say, but I'm coming up in the world.  I know what I like and I have the tools to realize my vision.  It just really disappoints me when my idols become jaded by sentimentality.  I would hate to think idealism was ever afforded by innocence.

Nicholas



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jrmintz on March 19, 2010, 06:58:45 PM
breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 18:44

What's frustrating is how obvious things seem now.  Condescension is just a guilty pleasure, impressing this illusion of an ego onto the physical world.  I'm shocked that Steve Fisk even gives a fuck about what I say, but I'm coming up in the world.  I know what I like and I have the tools to realize my vision.  It just really disappoints me when my idols become jaded by sentimentality.  I would hate to think idealism was ever afforded by innocence.

Nicholas



I'm shocked at where I find cynicism and incompetence, and it usually has nothing to do with age one way or another. It is disappointing when your idols prove fallible, but that happens more and more as you get older. You realize your idols are just people trying to deal with their lives. Sometimes that can make you respect them even more, sometimes you realize they're not very talented and they stepped in shit. I think it's unfair to hold your idols responsible for your idealism. Cherish your vision.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 06:59:48 PM
Or originality, for that matter.

Nicholas





breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 15:44

What's frustrating is how obvious things seem now.  Condescension is just a guilty pleasure, impressing this illusion of an ego onto the physical world.  I'm shocked that Steve Fisk even gives a fuck about what I say, but I'm coming up in the world.  I know what I like and I have the tools to realize my vision.  It just really disappoints me when my idols become jaded by sentimentality.  I would hate to think idealism was ever afforded by innocence.

Nicholas





Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 19, 2010, 07:00:20 PM
Based on the majority of the questions he asks, I'm not sure Nicholas knows which end of the cable to plug in, let alone how to outmix Carter.  

Nicholas, Carter didn't get to be Brian Wilson's personal engineer by knowing only what he's learned from Internet forums.  Sometimes it's best to know what you don't know, and then follow the soup's advice.

index.php/fa/14464/0/
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 07:07:10 PM
I agree.  It would be like calling my father "bullshit".  I understand the troubles he's been through at this point.  But I think there has to be some mutual understanding of what the dividing line is for integrity.  I think I've found it as far as engineering goes, and I think I have the competence to understand the variables that someone had to work with to make a project happen.  Seeing Shellac play this summer was really inspiring, because Albini et al really had it going on, complete investment into what they were doing, and every person in the room knew it.

Nicholas




jrmintz wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 15:58

breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 18:44

What's frustrating is how obvious things seem now.  Condescension is just a guilty pleasure, impressing this illusion of an ego onto the physical world.  I'm shocked that Steve Fisk even gives a fuck about what I say, but I'm coming up in the world.  I know what I like and I have the tools to realize my vision.  It just really disappoints me when my idols become jaded by sentimentality.  I would hate to think idealism was ever afforded by innocence.

Nicholas



I'm shocked at where I find cynicism and incompetence, and it usually has nothing to do with age one way or another. It is disappointing when your idols prove fallible, but that happens more and more as you get older. You realize your idols are just people trying to deal with their lives. Sometimes that can make you respect them even more.


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 19, 2010, 07:14:40 PM
Anyone notice how much easier it was to call people cynical sellouts when you didn't have to feed kids, make mortage and insurance payments, pay alimony, etc?  

Ever notice how many more of those responsibilities you have when you're 40 or over?

Oh, and I forgot something ... Carter is a Grammy
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 07:25:20 PM
J.J., did you make that soup yourself?  I'm impressed!

Nicholas




J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 16:00

Based on the majority of the questions he asks, I'm not sure Nicholas knows which end of the cable to plug in, let alone how to outmix Carter.  

Nicholas, Carter didn't get to be Brian Wilson's personal engineer by knowing only what he's learned from Internet forums.  Sometimes it's best to know what you don't know, and then follow the soup's advice.

index.php/fa/14464/0/

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 07:28:03 PM
I've heard the recent Brian Wilson stuff, which sounds nice, but I don't think I own any of Carter's records.

Nicholas



J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 16:14

Anyone notice how much easier it was to call people cynical sellouts when you didn't have to feed kids, make mortage and insurance payments, pay alimony, etc?  

Ever notice how many more of those responsibilities you have when you're 40 or over?

Oh, and I forgot something ... Carter is a Grammy
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 07:29:42 PM
And what the hell does having to pay for a mortgage have to do with making real art, J.J.?

Nicholas




breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 16:28

I've heard the recent Brian Wilson stuff, which sounds nice, but I don't think I own any of Carter's records.

Nicholas



J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 16:14

Anyone notice how much easier it was to call people cynical sellouts when you didn't have to feed kids, make mortage and insurance payments, pay alimony, etc?  

Ever notice how many more of those responsibilities you have when you're 40 or over?

Oh, and I forgot something ... Carter is a Grammy
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 07:31:18 PM
I noticed John Goodmanson started talking about his mortgage payments when his craft became shit.

Nicholas



breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 16:29

And what the hell does having to pay for a mortgage have to do with making real art, J.J.?

Nicholas




breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 16:28

I've heard the recent Brian Wilson stuff, which sounds nice, but I don't think I own any of Carter's records.

Nicholas



J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 16:14

Anyone notice how much easier it was to call people cynical sellouts when you didn't have to feed kids, make mortage and insurance payments, pay alimony, etc?  

Ever notice how many more of those responsibilities you have when you're 40 or over?

Oh, and I forgot something ... Carter is a Grammy
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on March 19, 2010, 07:34:43 PM
Egad.

OK.  The only person worthy of being called out in this thread is the originator.

Got it?

JW
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 19, 2010, 07:36:34 PM
Sleater-Kinney's "Call The Doctor" is a GREAT fucking record.  John fucking rocked that shit.

Nicholas




breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 16:31

I noticed John Goodmanson started talking about his mortgage payments when his craft became shit.

Nicholas



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 19, 2010, 07:50:24 PM
Nicholas, if you are still in Santa Monica, there's a really talented psychopharmacologist there, to whom I've referred several friends.  They've all thanked me.  Let me know if you're interested.  

You might want to hit some AA meetings at 26th and Broadway, while you're at it.  Manic depression and chemical dependency are a lethal combination.  
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on March 19, 2010, 07:57:50 PM
“Profanity is the common crutch of the conversational cripple.”

David Keuck

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on March 19, 2010, 08:29:18 PM

Nicholas ( breathe )

Can i ask you please your Bio. what have you record, play or produce , and if
your income are in the music business,

Thank you

JN
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 19, 2010, 09:03:57 PM
I'm letting the computer do its thing, which is going to take a while.

Everybody, the time for talking is done.

Nicholas, you said a mix off would be great, so I guess we can consider this thing on?

Like I said, you pick the material so I'd assume you'd pick something you're passionate about.

J.J. tried to spook you by teasing my some of my resume.  Don't let  him rattle you.

"You only as good as your latest project."  So, I'd consider this my latest project and you and I are on equal footing.

Let's do this.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 19, 2010, 09:10:27 PM
I see this in Nicholas' future:

index.php/fa/14466/0/
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 19, 2010, 09:12:29 PM
J.J., you need to be nice.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on March 19, 2010, 09:16:29 PM
CWHumphrey wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 20:12

J.J., you need to be nice.

Cheers,


No, he doesn't.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: grantis on March 19, 2010, 09:21:13 PM
I wish there was a similar feature to that of Facebook's "Like" link.  But since there isn't (that I know of).

I "like" this thread.

Can't wait to hear these mixes.

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Gio on March 19, 2010, 10:09:08 PM
breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 18:44

What's frustrating is how obvious things seem now.  Condescension is just a guilty pleasure, impressing this illusion of an ego onto the physical world.  I'm shocked that Steve Fisk even gives a fuck about what I say, but I'm coming up in the world.  I know what I like and I have the tools to realize my vision.  It just really disappoints me when my idols become jaded by sentimentality.  I would hate to think idealism was ever afforded by innocence.

Nicholas


And ego you seem to have...

Ambition will get you far.

Respect and humility will get you the rest of the way.

Remember.... we're making music here, along with countless others. Odds of changing the world?

Perspective.

Turn brain off.

Make music you like.

Be happy.

Not a competition........
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: grantis on March 19, 2010, 10:17:40 PM
Gio wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 21:09

breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 18:44

What's frustrating is how obvious things seem now.  Condescension is just a guilty pleasure, impressing this illusion of an ego onto the physical world.  I'm shocked that Steve Fisk even gives a fuck about what I say, but I'm coming up in the world.  I know what I like and I have the tools to realize my vision.  It just really disappoints me when my idols become jaded by sentimentality.  I would hate to think idealism was ever afforded by innocence.

Nicholas


And ego you seem to have...

Ambition will get you far.

Respect and humility will get you the rest of the way.

Remember.... we're making music here, along with countless others. Odds of changing the world?

Perspective.

Turn brain off.

Make music you like.

Be happy.

Not a competition........



Believe in the force, we must.

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Gio on March 19, 2010, 10:30:10 PM
grantis wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 22:17


Believe in the force, we must.


Mock all you want, whippersnapper......

Very Happy
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: grantis on March 19, 2010, 11:26:51 PM
Gio wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 21:30

grantis wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 22:17


Believe in the force, we must.


Mock all you want, whippersnapper......

Very Happy


Nah man, not mocking, just jokin around.

Sorry.....back to the mix war with cw and nicky.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: danickstr on March 20, 2010, 12:06:51 AM
If you watch any of the great artistic works of this century, such as "my Super Ex-girlfriend", you will come to one of the great truths of the universe; people who are cynical and jaded are that way because inside of them is a child that had a dream, and for whatever reason that dream did not come true, but they still want to believe in that dream.

In order to function in the world that has denied them their dream, they must believe that the dream is not attainable in general.  But they really don't believe that at all, at least not the little child in them that never gave up on the dream.

So even the jaded people are capable of going for the dream, whether as an engineer or artist, or some other part of a team, but they have to rekindle their child-like passion, or have it rekindled for them.  Maybe by a magic meteor.  
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Fenris Wulf on March 20, 2010, 12:47:29 AM
breathe wrote on Thu, 18 March 2010 22:37

If you seriously feel that everything that could be done has been done before


Well, yes, I do.

All the fundamental advances in audio were made before WWII. Sound-wise, recording technology reached its peak before 1960. There has been NO fundamental improvement since that time, with the single exception of high-output tape formulations, and that was 20 years ago. Today's best equipment designers spend their time struggling to approximate the quality of old equipment, which is very difficult to do, because the electronic components available today are much lower in quality and come in fewer variations.

Musical instruments, ditto. I've recorded maybe 100 different models of guitar amps at KDVS, and the best-sounding ones were invariably 20 years old or more. The so-called "reissues" of classic guitar amps have no resemblance to the real thing.

I spend all my time researching and re-creating obsolete recording techniques, fixing up old equipment with discrete transformer-balanced circuitry, recording non-mainstream music played by competent musicians who don't need extensive digital editing, and discouraging aspiring AE's from going into the field unless they're prepared to acquire real electrical engineering skills that will distinguish them from the horde of unemployable "recording school" grads.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hank Alrich on March 20, 2010, 01:00:51 AM
breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 16:29

And what the hell does having to pay for a mortgage have to do with making real art, J.J.?

Nicholas




I'm not JJ, but I think it is now reasonable to ask you what you do for a living. You disparage professionals, their marketplace, their passion, integrity, and on, and on. They are professionals because they make their living doing this work. What is your real work, as in how do you pay your bills?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 20, 2010, 01:09:48 AM
grantis wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 20:26



Sorry.....back to the mix war with cw and nicky.


My name is Carter and this is not a war.

In fact, this is a challenge...and maybe even an opportunity.

I'd hope that the general snarkiness this thread has devolved into would end and we could get on with some actual mixing.

So everybody, be cool and we'll see how this plays out together.

Cheers,



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on March 20, 2010, 01:18:37 AM
As long as you don't cheat by using a desk and outboard.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 20, 2010, 01:47:09 AM
If this happens, I'll be mixing in the box.  

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: grantis on March 20, 2010, 02:08:25 AM
CWHumphrey wrote on Sat, 20 March 2010 00:09

grantis wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 20:26



Sorry.....back to the mix war with cw and nicky.


My name is Carter and this is not a war.

In fact, this is a challenge...and maybe even an opportunity.

I'd hope that the general snarkiness this thread has devolved into would end and we could get on with some actual mixing.

So everybody, be cool and we'll see how this plays out together.

Cheers,






Sorry man...I have a habit of referring to people by their internet usernames...if not abbreviated.

Is CW the initials of your first and middle name?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 20, 2010, 03:02:26 AM
Carter William Humphrey

It's the whitest name in show business!

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on March 20, 2010, 06:55:03 AM
CWHumphrey wrote on Sat, 20 March 2010 03:02

Carter William Humphrey

It's the whitest name in show business!

Cheers,



Damn, that made me laugh.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Nizzle on March 20, 2010, 12:45:57 PM
compasspnt wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 22:18

As long as you don't cheat by using a desk and outboard.



because that just makes everything better?

-t
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Blas on March 20, 2010, 12:50:45 PM
JJ, Where the heck do you come up with all those pictures?  
Now back to the Mix-Off.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: grantis on March 20, 2010, 01:12:23 PM
Nizzle wrote on Sat, 20 March 2010 11:45

compasspnt wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 22:18

As long as you don't cheat by using a desk and outboard.



because that just makes everything better?

-t


yes
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Nizzle on March 20, 2010, 05:00:14 PM
grantis wrote on Sat, 20 March 2010 10:12

Nizzle wrote on Sat, 20 March 2010 11:45

compasspnt wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 22:18

As long as you don't cheat by using a desk and outboard.



because that just makes everything better?

-t


yes



settle down, Francis.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 20, 2010, 05:24:38 PM
Blas wrote on Sat, 20 March 2010 09:50

JJ, Where the heck do you come up with all those pictures?  
Now back to the Mix-Off.


I just find them.  Here's another good one:

http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/16879/original/noob_ville.jpg
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jchristopherhughes on March 21, 2010, 12:15:48 AM
breathe wrote on Thu, 18 March 2010 17:37

I am fucking serious.  I WILL OVERTAKE YOU.  I may be naive but I have a value system that drives everything that I do.  If you seriously feel that everything that could be done has been done before then fucking check out of this situation and check into a retirement home.  There is NO USE for cynicism in the facilitation of art.

Nicholas








ok.  i just called the retirement home...they told me they already have a house engineer.

shit.  i suppose i have to keep in the situation.

for the record.....what situation are you referring to ?

best,

jchristopherhughes
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: John Ivan on March 21, 2010, 12:35:42 AM
CWHumphrey wrote on Sat, 20 March 2010 01:47

If this happens, I'll be mixing in the box.  

Cheers,


HEY!! Can I get the files too? I mean, just for fun? No contest, but it would be fun to see who comes up with what mix wise.. Lots of fun , actually.

Ivan...................
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: mixwell on March 21, 2010, 09:34:20 AM
breathe wrote on Thu, 18 March 2010 17:37

 I WILL OVERTAKE YOU.


So!!!! You're the dude who stole the KAZOO ENSEMBLE gig from me.

Guess I better fall back on the Yodeling Quintet I've been putting off.

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on March 21, 2010, 10:17:05 AM
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 21, 2010, 02:09:42 PM
I'm not interested in taunting, I'm interested in DOING!

Everybody be cool.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hallams on March 21, 2010, 07:36:04 PM
breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 09:37

I am fucking serious.  I WILL OVERTAKE YOU.  I may be naive but I have a value system that drives everything that I do.  If you seriously feel that everything that could be done has been done before then fucking check out of this situation and check into a retirement home.  There is NO USE for cynicism in the facilitation of art.

Nicholas






 Just found this little gem of a thread.
Breathe, I like the having a value system bit however, there is even less use for your attitude eg; "I WILL OVERTAKE YOU" and the facilitation of art. Your post to me is one of contradiction. Your passion seems to be sadly smoke screened by the implied assumptions you sadly grovel in. In some cases a picture says a thousand words and in this case I will choose Johnny Cash to do the talking for me, a passionate over 40's audio engineer:

index.php/fa/14476/0/
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rankus on March 22, 2010, 01:08:32 AM

I'd love to get into the mix-off as well!  We could make it a party!

How about posting some tracks Nicholas?

Ps: I'm well past 40 (by about a decade or more)

But it looks like Terry may have to be disqualified as he's barely 40.



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on March 22, 2010, 01:33:38 AM
I said "almost."
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Podgorny on March 22, 2010, 09:27:32 AM
rankus wrote on Mon, 22 March 2010 00:08


I'd love to get into the mix-off as well!  We could make it a party!





What a novel idea!  PSW's own REP forums could host files, and then anyone who wished to participate could mix them, and post their results for everyone to discuss.

We could call it IMP (INCREDIBLE MIXING PROJECT).

Anybody?


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Tim Halligan on March 22, 2010, 09:38:53 AM
Podgorny wrote on Mon, 22 March 2010 21:27

rankus wrote on Mon, 22 March 2010 00:08


I'd love to get into the mix-off as well!  We could make it a party!





What a novel idea!  PSW's own REP forums could host files, and then anyone who wished to participate could mix them, and post their results for everyone to discuss.

We could call it IMP (INCREDIBLE MIXING PROJECT).

Anybody?






Shit-stirrer!  Laughing


Cheers,
Tim
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on March 22, 2010, 11:01:06 AM
breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 15:41

I relish being an agitator, but I don't intend to hurt anyone's feelings.  I would be open to a mix-off.  It would have to be material that I felt passionate about.

Nicholas




CWHumphrey wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 10:38

breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 09:48

CW, so it's the marketplace (ruled by the lowest common denominator of the record buying public) that determines the value of your work?  I'm so sorry.

Nicholas



I see how it is, kiddo, you're trying to piss me off.

Well, today is YOUR LUCKY DAY!!

Nicholas, you want to show everybody what you've got?

Let's have a little mix off, right here in Fletcher's forum!

I'll even let you pick the material.

So sonny, put up or shut up.




Which Material are you going to choose for the mix?

I like how this angle took something that was almost starting to be negative into a fun exercise that will surely benefit all.  Good work guys.  Now what for material?

sounds like theirs a few more guys wanting to play with it around too,
This should be informative and interesting-

-j


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Sean Eldon Qualls on March 22, 2010, 01:19:00 PM
What is the internet equivalent of popcorn and beer?

Whatever it is, can you e-mail it to me?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 22, 2010, 01:58:37 PM
This is a direct challenge, which I think, has run out of gas.

Nicholas, I let you get under my skin, but we're cool.  I'm in a crappy frame of mind since Bill Dooley's death, so any more snarkiness out of the rest of you and I'm going to call for a lock on this thread.  If you want to do this, we're on.  But if you don't, then you don't.

Anymore snarkiness out of the rest of you, I'm going to call for the lock.  

To quote Dave Hecht: If I want shit out of you, I'll just squeeze your head.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: arbogast on March 22, 2010, 03:03:39 PM
me, i'm not cynical. having an excellent time, learning, creating, grateful for good songwriters and loving to birth their good music.
fuck me, i just wish it paid for my investment in gear... Mad
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 22, 2010, 04:09:17 PM
I think Nicholas is going to throw down his spoken word stuff for the mix off.  
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on March 22, 2010, 04:35:38 PM
J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 22 March 2010 16:09

I think Nicholas is going to throw down his spoken word stuff for the mix off.  


I see a lock in the future........LOL
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 22, 2010, 07:03:24 PM
The hard problem with doing a mix-off is what trajectory it is based on.  Indie?  Pop?  Garage punk?  Indie pop?  Who decides what is good???

Nicholas

P.S. My MCI mixer is still not wired up!  I would be mixing this through a Speck X-Sum being amplified through Great River MP-500NV amplifiers!  Randy Blevins is still busy.

Nicholas



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 22, 2010, 07:07:10 PM
Do I get to blast shit out of a speaker in my living room to create the Phil Spector effect???  I need time to set this up!!!

Nicholas



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 22, 2010, 07:11:59 PM
I don't even know where my one working KRK V8 is.

Nicholas




Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 22, 2010, 07:13:56 PM
Do I get to take marijuana for the mix?   Is that allowed???

Nicholas



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hallams on March 22, 2010, 07:15:36 PM
breathe wrote on Tue, 23 March 2010 10:07

Do I get to blast shit out of a speaker in my living room to create the Phil Spector effect???  I need time to set this up!!!

Nicholas






breathe wrote on Fri, 19 March 2010 09:37

edited.....  If you seriously feel that everything that could be done has been done before then........

Nicholas







......Don't bother with the Phil Spector effect, I'm looking forward to you applying a few approaches that are uniquely yours to the mix.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on March 22, 2010, 07:25:15 PM
Nicholas,

/if I understand correctly,  pick something you like (and have) and you can do whatever you want..
-j
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 22, 2010, 07:29:15 PM
I'll mix-off with you guys even though I've only had sex with 6 different women, and I don't have herpes.

Nicholas




Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on March 22, 2010, 07:32:42 PM
yet. perhaps.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Sean Eldon Qualls on March 22, 2010, 09:45:32 PM
J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 22 March 2010 16:09

I think Nicholas is going to throw down his spoken word stuff for the mix off.  


http://www.celebrationsound.com/images/blahblah3.jpg
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on March 22, 2010, 11:49:40 PM
Hallams wrote on Mon, 22 March 2010 19:15

breathe wrote on Tue, 23 March 2010 10:07

Do I get to blast shit out of a speaker in my living room to create the Phil Spector effect???



...Don't bother with the Phil Spector effect, I'm looking forward to you applying a few approaches that are uniquely yours to the mix.



No please, I really want to hear his version of "the Phil Spector effect."
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jetbase on March 23, 2010, 12:00:27 AM
compasspnt wrote on Tue, 23 March 2010 14:49

Hallams wrote on Mon, 22 March 2010 19:15

breathe wrote on Tue, 23 March 2010 10:07

Do I get to blast shit out of a speaker in my living room to create the Phil Spector effect???



...Don't bother with the Phil Spector effect, I'm looking forward to you applying a few approaches that are uniquely yours to the mix.



No please, I really want to hear his version of "the Phil Spector effect."



I imagine it would sound very much like mud hitting a wall.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 23, 2010, 01:48:10 AM
breathe wrote on Mon, 22 March 2010 16:29

I'll mix-off with you guys even though I've only had sex with 6 different women, and I don't have herpes.



Ummm ... exactly what do you think we mean by a "mix off"?  

No wonder you don't know how to engineer - you've been doing it wrong.  
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 23, 2010, 02:11:14 AM
seedyunderbelly.com wrote on Mon, 22 March 2010 16:25

Nicholas,

/if I understand correctly,  pick something you like (and have) and you can do whatever you want..
-j


Yes, exactly.

Nicholas, you're picking the music, so YOU decide how this is going to go.

I really wasn't terribly interested in formal rules.  I was just thinking we'd both mix the same thing and listen to each other's work.  If you don't want other people to listen and critique, fine.  If you want to make this public, and even involve others as judges, fine.

In other words, I'm giving you the opportunity to kick my ass in public or private...if you can.  This is your chance "OVERTAKE" me.  

You set the parameters, you pick the material.  Build yourself an inherent advantage if you want.  Just tell me where I can pick up the files.

Cheers,


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Ross Hogarth on March 23, 2010, 02:43:01 AM
this is a gem of a thread

only on the internet

i am wondering what cred (if any)
does our friend Nick have here for dissing legitimate pros's ?
or is your glass house fogged up with crack smoke ?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Larrchild on March 23, 2010, 07:13:00 AM
Talk
It's only talk
Babble
Burble
Banter
Bicker bicker bicker
Brouhaha
Boulderdash
Ballyhoo
It's only talk
Back talk
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Skullsessions on March 23, 2010, 08:51:15 AM
I don't give a shit about who mixes it the "best".  That's a bit like judging dancing or gymnastics.

I wanna know who can pay the rent with the final result.

THAT'S my winner.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: marcel on March 23, 2010, 09:44:19 AM
Nicholas:

If I were you, I'd do this.  It's a unique and golden opportunity to learn something about how records really get made from a real professional.  

But I guess that's the fundamental problem here, you're maybe not interested in learning about that.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 23, 2010, 09:45:37 AM
You guys are so ridiculous.  I'm only cocky/asshole-ish on this forum cause I think it's funny.  The way I represent myself here has nothing to do with my "real life" personality.  I suspect that is true for a lot of you.  I don't take any of this seriously.  I love working with music though.

So are we still going to have this pissing contest?  What are the rules now?  If I have to mix in the box then it's all off because I think that sounds like shit.  And I do get to use the Phil Spector effect!!!

Nicholas

p.s. send any/all files to my Dropbox.com account.  My account e-mail is horatioalgiers@gmail.com.


Best.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 23, 2010, 10:05:41 AM
Also, someone asked me where I get off being so disrespectful to audio "professionals".  My day job is forensic audio restoration.  I may be the best engineer in this field in America, and it pays the bills.  Music is what I do to keep from killing myself.  I get paid for that too, but for example with the Bucky Sinister record I paid for his air faire to get here because I'm putting it out on my vinyl-only record label.  I seriously believe that decisions in music production made because of a desire to make money are almost invariably the wrong ones.  In my record label, the artist gets total creative freedom.  I started off working in audio recording indie house shows in Santa Cruz and I have always seen myself as strictly a documentarian.  The records I put out I only put out because I want there to be a physical document of what an artist actually intended with their God-given creativity and inspiration.  I use the best mastering, pressing, and printing services in America to facilitate this.

Nicholas



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Podgorny on March 23, 2010, 10:33:17 AM
You're goofy.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jchristopherhughes on March 23, 2010, 10:53:52 AM
gotta love the internets [sic]

best,

jchristopherhughes



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: ziggy on March 23, 2010, 11:09:34 AM
i totally agree with marcel! i would be grateful for such an opportunity to compare my (very modest) mixing-skills with a pro from this forum. think about how much you could learn from that experience!!!

this thread and the one about tla made me think about how cool this would be. maybe i should start insulting people.... juuuuuuust kidding.

greetings from basel
luc
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: danickstr on March 23, 2010, 11:57:34 AM
I think it's OK to stir up the nest, and if a big hornet comes along, well, just try to "mix" it up with them, and the worst that can happen is you walk away with a stinger in yer hiney.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Ross Hogarth on March 23, 2010, 01:13:30 PM
breathe wrote on Tue, 23 March 2010 06:45

You guys are so ridiculous.  I'm only cocky/asshole-ish on this forum cause I think it's funny.  The way I represent myself here has nothing to do with my "real life" personality.  I suspect that is true for a lot of you.  I don't take any of this seriously.  I love working with music though.

So are we still going to have this pissing contest?  What are the rules now?  If I have to mix in the box then it's all off because I think that sounds like shit.  And I do get to use the Phil Spector effect!!!

Nicholas

p.s. send any/all files to my Dropbox.com account.  My account e-mail is horatioalgiers@gmail.com.


Best.

i suggest carter mix off in the box and let our friend nick use any console he wants ...let him have at it .. cause he should put up and shut up no matter what the tool
a good carpenter never blames his tools
and
i kinda think our buddy is a tool
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 23, 2010, 01:19:44 PM
breathe wrote on Tue, 23 March 2010 06:45

You guys are so ridiculous.  I'm only cocky/asshole-ish on this forum cause I think it's funny.  The way I represent myself here has nothing to do with my "real life" personality.  I suspect that is true for a lot of you.  I don't take any of this seriously.  I love working with music though.

So are we still going to have this pissing contest?  What are the rules now?  If I have to mix in the box then it's all off because I think that sounds like shit.  And I do get to use the Phil Spector effect!!!




Yes, this is on.

I'll make this easy, no rules...

...except, you actually have to do something, rather than just talk about it.  Am I right, you have nothing to mix?  I'm sure somebody here can cough up something we can mix.

I think its very odd that you say how you represent yourself here has nothing to do with how you are outside of PSW.  This is who I am, so again: put up or shut up.

By the way, the person who asked you where you get off being so disrespectful to audio "professionals" is Ross Hogarth, one of the moderators.  

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on March 23, 2010, 01:23:35 PM
N Wrote Selections:

I am fucking serious. I WILL OVERTAKE YOU. If you seriously feel that everything that could be done has been done before then fucking check out of this situation and check into a retirement home. There is NO USE for cynicism in the facilitation of art. HAVE A FUCKING VALUE SYSTEM. Why is it so obvious who is doing good shit and why is this obviousness lost on so many engineers?

so it's the marketplace (ruled by the lowest common denominator of the record buying public) that determines the value of your work? I'm so sorry.

I don't exist to deride and belittle, I exist to motivate and inspire. Your ego is like this bank in your gut that you invest into, motivating you to take chances and do your best work.
I relish being an agitator, but I don't intend to hurt anyone's feelings. I would be open to a mix-off. It would have to be material that I felt passionate about.

What is the trajectory of this art??? What defines the "quality" of the product? Is there some consensus, any consensus, as to what constitutes quality? anything better to qualify a project other than that you care about it. The ego is just a promotional device for this. I could talk loud or be timid and it's just the same. What's frustrating is how obvious things seem now. Condescension is just a guilty pleasure, impressing this illusion of an ego onto the physical world. I'm shocked that Steve Fisk even gives a fuck about what I say, but I'm coming up in the world. I know what I like and I have the tools to realize my vision. It just really disappoints me when my idols become jaded by sentimentality. I would hate to think idealism was ever afforded by innocence. The hard problem with doing a mix-off is what trajectory it is based on. Indie? Pop? Garage punk? Indie pop? Who decides what is good???

Nicholas

P.S. My MCI mixer is still not wired up! I would be mixing this through a Speck X-Sum being amplified through Great River MP-500NV amplifiers! Randy Blevins is still busy.
Do I get to blast shit out of a speaker in my living room to create the Phil Spector effect??? I need time to set this up!!! I don't even know where my one working KRK V8 is.
Do I get to take marijuana for the mix? Is that allowed?


I'll mix-off with you guys even though I've only had sex with 6 different women, and I don't have herpes.
You guys are so ridiculous. I'm only cocky/asshole-ish on this forum cause I think it's funny. The way I represent myself here has nothing to do with my "real life" personality. I suspect that is true for a lot of you. I don't take any of this seriously. I love working with music though. I have always seen myself as strictly a documentarian

So are we still going to have this pissing contest? What are the rules now? If I have to mix in the box then it's all off because I think that sounds like shit. And I do get to use the Phil Spector effect!!!

-----------------------

I have been studying this text any help understanding this  would be appreciated and,

I think I have noted that
1. Strictly Documentarian means different things to different people (the amount of contradictory information is scary)
2. There are 6 'luckiest girls' in the world who should do a charmed documentary of their own

This shite is so whack---
 
Be lucky you live in your mind with your words and meanings people.

And to N:  There is a lovely world out there--  I see you recognizing some of it go into that and try to stay positive!  There are other ways to come up against ideas that are potentially more productive and enjoyable --  And remember that some of those 40+ year olds just saw a whipper snapper put it away after shaking it all around jumping up and down..............  Now go conquer the world with a smile not a sneer young man!  Don't forget to keep that thing in your pants son.


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on March 23, 2010, 01:35:54 PM
I'm perfectly OK with being funny and provocative.

Or being funny OR provocative.

But it's simply bad form to call out someone's integrity in a forum like this.

So OK you're cute and smart and funny and you confuse us with the "White-collar conservatives" pointing our "plastic fingers".

I'll stand my work and ethics up to anyone's - but that's not news.

What I don't do is call out the work and ethics of others in an internet forum.

Because that's just stupid.

Good luck

JW
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: el duderino on March 23, 2010, 01:41:41 PM
i would love to hear these mixes.

i'd offer some tracks, but somehow i don't think the "passion" would be there for nicholas.


even though it's different, something about this reminds me of ADRIAN GOZUN
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: John Ivan on March 23, 2010, 02:25:12 PM
Larrchild wrote on Tue, 23 March 2010 07:13

Talk
It's only talk
Babble
Burble
Banter
Bicker bicker bicker
Brouhaha
Boulderdash
Ballyhoo
It's only talk
Back talk


My pal had a Stick back then. He tried, for a while, to learn that tune.. Ouch!!

Great stuff though..

Ivan..........
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on March 23, 2010, 02:34:41 PM
I dunno...Every once in a while I'll throw out a product that I know was absolute trash, just to keep people's opinions of my work at an all time low...can't have any positive reputation or anything.  


Its difficult to maintain a modicum of mediocrity.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Skullsessions on March 23, 2010, 03:12:46 PM
I can offer up the tracks to Find Your Groove!

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/30236/0/0/ 13978/#msg_num_25

You can't tell me you're not passionate about that one.

Remember, "all you have to do is make it sound like a good singer in a good studio."

That's what I was told anyway.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on March 23, 2010, 03:35:22 PM
If you still have the trax for find your groove  can I have them too???  Awesome stuff!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 23, 2010, 05:20:45 PM
When this is done, Nicholas, bring a thousand bucks over, and we'll play some heads up poker.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: tripit on March 23, 2010, 06:45:07 PM
Wow, gem of a thread. Destine to become an instant classic.

Nicholas reminds of my 22 year old nephew - who argues passionately about aliens from space among us and the 911 conspiracy. He also doesn't know that Catholic's are Christians and that you can't mix bleach with drain cleaner....among other things.

Jeeez .... to be young.

Here's yer wall of sound:
index.php/fa/14498/0/
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: John Ivan on March 23, 2010, 07:49:47 PM
Well, my room isn't what I would ultimately want to be tracking in, but I'll write and print a tune, Drums, Bass ,Guitar, Piano, Hammond sound and Vocals if you want tracks that neither of you have heard. It would be a "rock song".. Maybe we'll chart;-}......

The sounds will certainly be usable..

Ivan.............
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hallams on March 23, 2010, 07:52:19 PM
couldn't resist........


index.php/fa/14499/0/
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Ross Hogarth on March 23, 2010, 07:57:53 PM
Hallams wrote on Tue, 23 March 2010 16:52

couldn't resist........


index.php/fa/14499/0/


AWESOME !!!!!!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 23, 2010, 08:16:50 PM
John Ivan!  Totally post some tracks!  I believe you are a soulful brother!

Nicholas




Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on March 23, 2010, 08:39:22 PM
Chris Hallums...does this kid track triads?  Square waves?  Tears for Fears?  What?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: BestMixerEver on March 23, 2010, 10:45:45 PM
Uhhh, nope
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dale Francis on March 24, 2010, 11:02:43 AM
Hallams wrote on Tue, 23 March 2010 19:52

couldn't resist........


index.php/fa/14499/0/


I ask you if this is re inventing the wheel or just busting your balls??
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 24, 2010, 01:02:28 PM
So, tracks?

I'm ready to go.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on March 24, 2010, 05:20:25 PM
Carter, I don't have anything I can provide for this test. You seem like you have good taste and I trust your judgement for the music selection.

Nicholas




CWHumphrey wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 10:02

So, tracks?

I'm ready to go.

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 24, 2010, 05:42:25 PM
I have some Rod Stewart multis we can use.   Rolling Eyes
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jchristopherhughes on March 24, 2010, 06:29:40 PM
tripit wrote on Tue, 23 March 2010 17:45


Nicholas reminds of my 22 year old nephew - who argues passionately about aliens from space among us and the 911 conspiracy. He also doesn't know that Catholic's are Christians and that you can't mix bleach with drain cleaner....among other things.

Jeeez .... to be young.





the internets....its one hell of a drug.

best,

jchristopherhughes

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hallams on March 24, 2010, 08:36:05 PM
Dale Francis wrote on Thu, 25 March 2010 02:02

Hallams wrote on Tue, 23 March 2010 19:52

couldn't resist........


index.php/fa/14499/0/


I ask you if this is re inventing the wheel or just busting your balls??


..... in this post modern society it's deconstructing the wheel and He's got no balls!

....oh, and no one is busting my balls!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hank Alrich on March 24, 2010, 08:50:29 PM
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 14:42

I have some Rod Stewart multis we can use.   Rolling Eyes


No, you don't. <har har>
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 25, 2010, 02:06:23 AM
OK, so we need some tracks.

Anyone?

And no, J.J. I don't need any of THAT kind of drama resurfacing.  There's been enough drama right here!

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dale Francis on March 25, 2010, 06:15:48 AM
Hallams wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 20:36

Dale Francis wrote on Thu, 25 March 2010 02:02

Hallams wrote on Tue, 23 March 2010 19:52

couldn't resist........


index.php/fa/14499/0/


I ask you if this is re inventing the wheel or just busting your balls??


..... in this post modern society it's deconstructing the wheel and He's got no balls!

....oh, and no one is busting my balls!



given the look on the _young_ mans face, his balls were busted!
opps ... no the look is of deconstructed balls,
tis more painful.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 25, 2010, 11:38:00 AM
Hank Alrich wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 17:50

J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 14:42

I have some Rod Stewart multis we can use.   Rolling Eyes


No, you don't. <har har>


Actually, not only do I have them, but some of them, I own, since I never got paid for a few!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 25, 2010, 03:21:40 PM
Nicholas, put up some trax! You have to have something from one of the 1000 important, passionate, non-mortgage-paying-indie bands you've recorded.

TRAX OR STFU!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on March 25, 2010, 03:34:55 PM
Don...be nice - its the Jedi way.


Scratch that.  I forgot we revoked your knighthood status.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 25, 2010, 05:10:01 PM
Wireline wrote on Thu, 25 March 2010 12:34

Don...be nice - its the Jedi way.

Scratch that.  I forgot we revoked your knighthood status.


Oh, my status is WAY revoked.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 25, 2010, 05:17:43 PM
With the exception of Rod Stewart, I'll gladly take any tracks J.J. has kicking around.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Sean Eldon Qualls on March 25, 2010, 05:27:13 PM
If we wait 'til early next week I can give you guys a session of me on drums/bass/two electric guitars/one acoustic/clavinet/vocal.

Confusingly enough, it's a "band in a room" recording even though there's only one of me. All electric instruments DI'd, then reamped simultaneously while I play drums with no headphones.

The music is "somewhat out there" so Nicholas might even like it, and the tracks are pretty damn good and VERY basic (two mics on drums, for instance), so all you'd be able to do is either screw it up horribly or take it to a better place via magic.

Or you guys can mix Rod Stewart...
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on March 25, 2010, 05:51:05 PM
Sean,
Even if there is no bake-off, I'd like to hear that project.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 25, 2010, 06:51:16 PM
Would any of these tracks work for y'all? I've got the 48/24 tracks recorded on a RADAR24 Nyquist in BWAV.  Upright Bass, acoustic drums, acoustic guitar, some elec gtr, violin, all live with a few vox overdubs.

Check out my website for my rough mixes:  http://www.lonelygrange.com/
Pics of the setup here:     http://kbanning.smugmug.com/Music/Recording/Lonely-Grange-Re corders-Fossil/11395595_vxFDF#800946330_cHQJG


Adam Samuels and I recorded and rough mixed these a few weeks back in little ol' Fossil, Oregon....samples on the site.

Keith
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 25, 2010, 07:53:29 PM
CWHumphrey wrote on Thu, 25 March 2010 14:17

With the exception of Rod Stewart, I'll gladly take any tracks J.J. has kicking around.

Cheers,


I should give you guys some Mother Superior stuff.  
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 25, 2010, 08:13:16 PM
Mother Superior rocks!  

But JJ, cut it out! I'm trying to get some free mixing done here

Twisted Evil



Seriously though, my goods are more acoustic/alt-country-ish. But whatever Nicholas wants.....

PS-JJ, I know not to play Poker against you, I was at The Village this summer  Shocked
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Nizzle on March 25, 2010, 10:01:37 PM
Sean Eldon Qualls wrote on Thu, 25 March 2010 14:27

 

All electric instruments DI'd, then reamped simultaneously while I play drums with no headphones.




I LOVE that:

A:You got yourself high enough to brainstorm such a fantastic idea

2: You actually executed said idea

III: No headphones. Bleed. Bless you.

You're a beast.

-t
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hank Alrich on March 25, 2010, 11:28:44 PM
Ain't there IMP tracks from over in Mr. Hall's forum?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 26, 2010, 02:05:54 AM
Spindrift wrote on Thu, 25 March 2010 15:51

Would any of these tracks work for y'all? I've got the 48/24 tracks recorded on a RADAR24 Nyquist in BWAV.  Upright Bass, acoustic drums, acoustic guitar, some elec gtr, violin, all live with a few vox overdubs.

Check out my website for my rough mixes:  http://www.lonelygrange.com/
Pics of the setup here:      http://kbanning.smugmug.com/Music/Recording/Lonely-Grange-Re corders-Fossil/11395595_vxFDF#800946330_cHQJG


Adam Samuels and I recorded and rough mixed these a few weeks back in little ol' Fossil, Oregon....samples on the site.

Keith


I think we have a winner.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on March 26, 2010, 02:21:41 AM
So, I just found out that you mixers will be using speakers to actually HEAR what you are mixing.

Wimps.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 26, 2010, 02:34:44 AM
compasspnt wrote on Thu, 25 March 2010 23:21

So, I just found out that you mixers will be using speakers to actually HEAR what you are mixing.

Wimps.



Call me old fashioned, but I like to hear the music.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: itsapleasure on March 26, 2010, 07:46:35 AM
Terry, I think you should give us a "monitor-off mix" of this one.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Peter Beckmann on March 26, 2010, 07:55:05 AM
Spindrift wrote on Thu, 25 March 2010 22:51


Pics of the setup here:      http://kbanning.smugmug.com/Music/Recording/Lonely-Grange-Re corders-Fossil/11395595_vxFDF#800946330_cHQJG



Keith


Keith, lovely pics on your site from all your sessions.

I've done a couple of projects like that, recording in different spaces. It can be a little nerve wracking, but a lot of fun too.

Peter
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on March 26, 2010, 08:32:33 AM
CWHumphrey wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 02:05

Spindrift wrote on Thu, 25 March 2010 15:51

Would any of these tracks work for y'all? I've got the 48/24 tracks recorded on a RADAR24 Nyquist in BWAV.  Upright Bass, acoustic drums, acoustic guitar, some elec gtr, violin, all live with a few vox overdubs.

Check out my website for my rough mixes:  http://www.lonelygrange.com/
Pics of the setup here:        http://kbanning.smugmug.com/Music/Recording/Lonely-Grange-Re corders-Fossil/11395595_vxFDF#800946330_cHQJG


Adam Samuels and I recorded and rough mixed these a few weeks back in little ol' Fossil, Oregon....samples on the site.

Keith


I think we have a winner.

Cheers,



Carter i think you are waisting your time, he will never participate in that mix match.....
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Sean Eldon Qualls on March 26, 2010, 11:46:28 AM
Well if we have a winner (great tracks, Keith!) then I won't bother finishing up so early!

Here's a dry-run, "proof of concept" anyway for anyone who is curious. I'll be doing this song again with baritone guitars instead of "standards" and moving the vocal melody up, so the guitars and vocals aren't fighting for the same real estate throughout the entire song.

Up for 7 days or 100 downloads: https://www.yousendit.com/download/THE1QndFdVVEbUx2Wmc9PQ
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: pete andrews on March 26, 2010, 12:36:45 PM
bigbone wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 08:32

CWHumphrey wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 02:05

Spindrift wrote on Thu, 25 March 2010 15:51

Would any of these tracks work for y'all? I've got the 48/24 tracks recorded on a RADAR24 Nyquist in BWAV.  Upright Bass, acoustic drums, acoustic guitar, some elec gtr, violin, all live with a few vox overdubs.

Check out my website for my rough mixes:  http://www.lonelygrange.com/
Pics of the setup here:         http://kbanning.smugmug.com/Music/Recording/Lonely-Grange-Re corders-Fossil/11395595_vxFDF#800946330_cHQJG


Adam Samuels and I recorded and rough mixed these a few weeks back in little ol' Fossil, Oregon....samples on the site.

Keith


I think we have a winner.

Cheers,



Carter i think you are waisting your time, he will never participate in that mix match.....



agreed.

-pete
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 26, 2010, 12:44:44 PM
bigbone wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 05:32


Carter i think you are waisting your time, he will never participate in that mix match.....



Nope, not a waste of time.  

Part of the recipe for winning is showing up.

Maybe some of you guppies haven't learned that one.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 26, 2010, 12:46:26 PM
Thanks for the kind words guys. I'll be posting the tracks later this morning.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 26, 2010, 02:57:48 PM
OK, files are posted here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?lzzyzwq3wax

Files & Recording are Copyright 2010 Lonely Grange Recorders. Song
written and copyrighted by Alex James.

PM me for the file password, this way we can see/track who's participating. Let me know if you have any problems retrieving this.

Trk1  Kick - D12E into a 512C Pre
Trk2  Snare - 57 into a Wunder PAFour+ Pre
Trk3  Hat - 58 into a Wunder PAFour+ Pre
Trk4  OH - Coles 4038 into a 512c Pre
Trk5  FlrTom - 421 into a Wunder PAFour+ Pre
Trk6  Acoustic Bass - Wunder CM7 into a 512c Pre -> CL1B
Trk8  Violin - 77DX into a 512c Pre
Trk10 Acoustic Gtr - Mojave MA201 into a Wunder PEQ2R Pre
Trk11 Acoustic Gtr - 441 into a Wunder PAFour+ Pre
Trk12 Ld Vox - Wunder CM7 -> Vintech X81 -> Neve 33609J/D
Trk15 Harmony Vox - Wunder CM7 -> 512c -> CL1B
Trk19 Room Mic - Coles 4038 -> Wunder PAFour+ Pre -> Buzz Essense Opto-Compressor
Trk20 Elec Gtr - ES125 - Old little Silvertone Tube Amp - MD409 -> Wunder PAFour+ Pre

One weakspot was the drum hardware and cymbals. I lined up this nice vintage Ludwig kit from Jose of Revival Drum Shop in Portland, but a miscommunication forced us to scrounge up whatever hardware and cymbals we could in the little town of Fossil (pop. 300?).  They were the worst sounding cymbals Adam and I had ever heard and the kick beater was all fluff and no thump!

How about we set a deadline of end of night Saturday Apr 3rd with listens on Easter Sunday?  I'll work on a place to upload the finals.  No mastering, deliver at -6db

Enjoy.

Participant list now CLOSED.

Thanks,
Keith
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 26, 2010, 03:01:41 PM
Running Mixoff Participants Listing. I'll edit/update as more participants join in.

Nicholas (Breathe)
Carter William Humphrey (CWHumphrey)
Keith Banning (Spindrift)
Rick Welin (rankus)
Don Gunn (bleen)
Philip DuMont (Fiasco)
Chris Hallam (Hallums)
Keith Bird (KB S1)
Luc Montini (Ziggy)
Ken Morgan (Wireline) (maybe)
Harvey Gerst (hargerst) (maybe)
James Hook (skullsessions)
Dan-O of Snakeoil recording (Dan-O)
rollmottle (rollmottle)
Daniel Walker (DanDigby)

Participant list now CLOSED.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Podgorny on March 26, 2010, 04:00:27 PM
This is getting silly.
I understand Carter and Nick having their mix-off, for the sake of this thread.
But allowing everyone to participate?  Are you guys unaware of the IMP over at J.Hall's forum?  There's been like twenty of them.

Perhaps we should create a second Saloon for people who just can't be bothered with scrolling down to the bottom.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 26, 2010, 04:03:21 PM
Hmmm, if you read the whole thread, there's plenty of folks that indicated they wanted to participate too.

Chill out...if you don't want to do it, that's cool.

Keith
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Podgorny on March 26, 2010, 04:08:12 PM
Keith, you're missing the point.

I couldn't care less whether people want to mix other people's music for free.
I'm saying that this "mix competition" already exists on REP.  It's in J.Hall's forum.  It's called IMP and it has been happening for years.  In fact, it is one of the best parts of the REP forums.

I guess it goes to show that perhaps the IMP should be hosted in Whatever Works, because clearly there is a large number of individuals that would love to participate, but have never bothered to visit J.Hall's forum.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 26, 2010, 04:20:26 PM
I see.  Didn't know that part of the board existed.  We can move this if it's necessary....but I thought this was sorta part of this zany thread.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Podgorny on March 26, 2010, 04:28:45 PM
It is part of this thread.  And upon re-reading my posts.  I didn't intend for them to sound hostile or bitter.  Sorry if I came across that way.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on March 26, 2010, 04:30:35 PM
itsapleasure wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 07:46

Terry, I think you should give us a "monitor-off mix" of this one.



I actually thought of doing that, but as it's not on tape, that would be the first major handicap (not counting being speakerless...)
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rankus on March 26, 2010, 04:46:56 PM
Spindrift wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 12:01


Who else is in?


Sent you a PM Keith.

What will the deadline be?  I may have time next week to mix, so I'm hoping you give us a week to hand in the completed mixes ?
This is pretty standard over at J Hall's IMP

PS:  Great fun to test my mettle against the pro's whom I am fairly confident will kick my *ss  

PPS:  We'll need somewhere to upload the final mixes as well.  And is mastering/limiting allowed or should they be handed in at -6db ?... this is always an issue with IMP: Some folks master, some don't, making it a little tough to compare.

It might be a good idea to keep it buried here on this long thread rather than giving it it's own thread or you'll end up with 25+ participants. lol

(I've been involved in about 17 IMPs so far)


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 26, 2010, 04:54:51 PM
No worries Kyle, we cool...we cool.

I edited the above posts with participants and the track info.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: DarinK on March 26, 2010, 05:29:53 PM
Podgorny wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 13:08

Keith, you're missing the point.

I couldn't care less whether people want to mix other people's music for free.
I'm saying that this "mix competition" already exists on REP.  It's in J.Hall's forum.  It's called IMP and it has been happening for years.  In fact, it is one of the best parts of the REP forums.

I guess it goes to show that perhaps the IMP should be hosted in Whatever Works, because clearly there is a large number of individuals that would love to participate, but have never bothered to visit J.Hall's forum.


J. Hall's forum is called, "Indie Rock, In Practice and In Theory."

I'm guessing that those not particularly interested in the "Indie Rock" genre do not check it out very often.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on March 26, 2010, 06:14:22 PM
compasspnt wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 16:30

itsapleasure wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 07:46

Terry, I think you should give us a "monitor-off mix" of this one.



I actually thought of doing that, but as it's not on tape, that would be the first major handicap (not counting being speakerless...)




Please, please... for the sake of coolness, I think it'd be fantastic if you would jedi a mix.

Perhaps speakerless cancels any advantage to tape?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hallams on March 26, 2010, 06:51:34 PM
Spindrift wrote on Sat, 27 March 2010 06:01

Running Mixoff Participants Listing. I'll edit/update as more participants join in.

Carter William Humphrey (CWHumphrey)
???? Nicholas (breath)
Keith Banning (Spindrift)
Rick Welin (rankus)
Don Gunn (bleen)
Philip DuMont (Fiasco)


Who else is in?

Count me in.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: KB_S1 on March 26, 2010, 07:14:21 PM
I need to evaluate a new room and some new speakers so I would be up for a shot please.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on March 26, 2010, 11:46:39 PM
CWHumphrey wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 12:44

bigbone wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 05:32


Carter i think you are waisting your time, he will never participate in that mix match.....



Nope, not a waste of time.  

Part of the recipe for winning is showing up.

Maybe some of you guppies haven't learned that one.

Cheers,



Carter i learn that i don't waist my time with some loud mouth on the net.

Hope you learn that one also.

JN
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: danickstr on March 27, 2010, 12:32:18 AM
Podgorny wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 16:00


Perhaps we should create a second Saloon for people who just can't be bothered with scrolling down to the bottom.


Heck ya.  that is the hardest part of my day, scrolling to the Saloon.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 27, 2010, 12:44:32 AM
Podgorny wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 13:00

This is getting silly.
I understand Carter and Nick having their mix-off, for the sake of this thread.
But allowing everyone to participate?  Are you guys unaware of the IMP over at J.Hall's forum?  There's been like twenty of them.

Perhaps we should create a second Saloon for people who just can't be bothered with scrolling down to the bottom.


I don't care if everybody on PSW participates.  This is good times.

Come and OVERTAKE ME....if you can.

Fletcher hasn't nixed this, so it's on.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 27, 2010, 12:54:56 AM
CWHumphrey wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 21:44


I don't care if everybody on PSW participates.  This is good times.

Come and OVERTAKE ME....if you can.

Fletcher hasn't nixed this, so it's on.

Cheers,



This will be pretty fascinating for me as I've setup my rig mainly for tracking. My mixes up on the site are run through what outboard I do have a cheap A&H ZED-428 board that I bought mainly to build cue-mixes on for the artists.  I think it sounds pretty alright because getting the source sounds right is my goal from the outset.

How will other's more experienced mixes sound through much superior iron (or even PT)??? I can't wait to see!

Nothing heard from Nicholas....
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hank Alrich on March 27, 2010, 10:54:16 AM
Fiasco wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 15:14

compasspnt wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 16:30

itsapleasure wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 07:46

Terry, I think you should give us a "monitor-off mix" of this one.



I actually thought of doing that, but as it's not on tape, that would be the first major handicap (not counting being speakerless...)




Please, please... for the sake of coolness, I think it'd be fantastic if you would jedi a mix.

Perhaps speakerless cancels any advantage to tape?


A Manning Meter Mix?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hank Alrich on March 27, 2010, 10:57:22 AM
bigbone wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 20:46

CWHumphrey wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 12:44

bigbone wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 05:32


Carter i think you are waisting your time, he will never participate in that mix match.....



Nope, not a waste of time.  

Part of the recipe for winning is showing up.

Maybe some of you guppies haven't learned that one.

Cheers,



Carter i learn that i don't waist my time with some loud mouth on the net.

Hope you learn that one also.

JN



Some people might want to go play golf in slack time. Others might enjoy doing a quick mix. Carter said he has some time to spare right now. I think he intends to have fun mixing. Time spent on fun isn't often wasted. <g>
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on March 27, 2010, 11:23:59 AM
No intention of engaging in a mix-off, but the title of the thread has been weighing on my mind heavily...


since we watched "Logan's Run" on DVD last night...maybe nicholas is really on to something.  I sense the jewel in my hand is darkening as I type this.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on March 27, 2010, 11:41:44 AM
Hank Alrich wrote on Sat, 27 March 2010 10:57

bigbone wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 20:46

CWHumphrey wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 12:44

bigbone wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 05:32


Carter i think you are waisting your time, he will never participate in that mix match.....



Nope, not a waste of time.  

Part of the recipe for winning is showing up.

Maybe some of you guppies haven't learned that one.

Cheers,



Carter i learn that i don't waist my time with some loud mouth on the net.

Hope you learn that one also.

JN



Some people might want to go play golf in slack time. Others might enjoy doing a quick mix. Carter said he has some time to spare right now. I think he intends to have fun mixing. Time spent on fun isn't often wasted. <g>


That pissing match is more like '' i can beat you , you can't beat me  ''  that a fun time mixing a song.........
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on March 27, 2010, 12:25:43 PM
It is as light or heavy as people make it -  I do not see Carter getting heavy-   and there is one fellow out there who is happy to have his song mixed by whomever--  

To Clarify  it started with Carter and nick  and other people wantto jump in precisously because it is a fun idea and not to compete with Carter  more of a learning thing---

so lets not make it heavy  and let the boys run!

Nicholas?  
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 27, 2010, 12:29:51 PM
I want to be involved for the pure joy of mixing something. Nothing more, nothing less, and I have a day open this week. Cool
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on March 27, 2010, 12:33:24 PM
seedyunderbelly.com wrote on Sat, 27 March 2010 12:25

It is as light or heavy as people make it -  I do not see Carter getting heavy-   and there is one fellow out there who is happy to have his song mixed by whomever--  

To Clarify  it started with Carter and nick  and other people wantto jump in precisously because it is a fun idea and not to compete with Carter  more of a learning thing---

so lets not make it heavy  and let the boys run!

Nicholas?  


John you are the voice of the reason...LOL


JN
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rankus on March 27, 2010, 01:40:28 PM
seedyunderbelly.com wrote on Sat, 27 March 2010 09:25

I it is a fun idea and not to compete with Carter  more of a learning thing---
 


Exactly.  I would be be daft think of this as a competition.  I am in it for fun and I am confident I will learn from comparing my mix to Carter's (and hopefully a couple more pro's ?  c'mon Terry)

Thanks for doing this Carter!


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 27, 2010, 03:11:06 PM
Hank Alrich wrote on Sat, 27 March 2010 07:57


Some people might want to go play golf in slack time. Others might enjoy doing a quick mix. Carter said he has some time to spare right now. I think he intends to have fun mixing. Time spent on fun isn't often wasted. <g>


Actually, I don't have any spare time at all.  This was not the smartest week to pick a battle.

But, I've carved out some time in the next while.

In a way, I need to stay busy right now.  Bill Dooley was a good friend of mine, and his passing (the same day as the start of this mess), weighs on me.

Also, I like mixing.  Some of you guys act like I'm going to handle snakes or something.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on March 27, 2010, 05:42:37 PM
Leave Snakehandling to the young p/b/ros! They seem busy enough handling snakes here on PSW already-

Thanks Jean! Of course not really  but I would rather not let this slither away due to that -  

crickets........
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dan-O on March 27, 2010, 06:59:03 PM
Snakes are handled here all the time.


Is this mix off now open to the public? I admit to jumping around on this thread.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 27, 2010, 07:02:43 PM
I'm going through the tracks today; everyone here should take a stab at this. It's a perfect song to practice the art of "staying out of the way".
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Tom L on March 27, 2010, 07:34:54 PM
danickstr wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 20:32

Podgorny wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 16:00


Perhaps we should create a second Saloon for people who just can't be bothered with scrolling down to the bottom.


Heck ya.  that is the hardest part of my day, scrolling to the Saloon.



crawling out of it is mine
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 28, 2010, 02:07:39 AM
Dan-O wrote on Sat, 27 March 2010 15:59

Snakes are handled here all the time.


Is this mix off now open to the public? I admit to jumping around on this thread.


Yeah, I'm comfortable sharing it with long-timers on here (even though I'm new).


PARTICIPANT LIST IS NOW CLOSED

bleen will be providing the participant list with some info regarding where to upload the mixes for comparison.

Thanks,
Keith
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: ziggy on March 28, 2010, 09:37:44 AM
hi

i was just doing my first mix. its great to be able to mix an english song without heavy swiss accent Smile

i love the tracks, fabulous. i'll post pics of the tools i use, just in case anyone is interested...

luc


index.php/fa/14528/0/
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: ziggy on March 28, 2010, 09:39:59 AM
reverb 1

index.php/fa/14529/0/
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: ziggy on March 28, 2010, 09:42:05 AM
reverb 2

index.php/fa/14530/0/
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dan-O on March 28, 2010, 10:02:23 AM
bleen wrote on Sat, 27 March 2010 19:02

I'm going through the tracks today; everyone here should take a stab at this. It's a perfect song to practice the art of "staying out of the way".



Have the tracks been posted somewhere? Again sorry if this is already general knowlage.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dan-O on March 28, 2010, 10:03:48 AM
Dan-O wrote on Sun, 28 March 2010 10:02

bleen wrote on Sat, 27 March 2010 19:02

I'm going through the tracks today; everyone here should take a stab at this. It's a perfect song to practice the art of "staying out of the way".



Have the tracks been posted somewhere? Again sorry if this is already general knowlage.



Oi Vey...nevermind... Embarassed

Edited: PM'd
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: leonardo valvassori on March 28, 2010, 10:56:56 AM
DarinK wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 17:29

J. Hall's forum is called, "Indie Rock, In Practice and In Theory."
I'm guessing that those not particularly interested in the "Indie Rock" genre do not check it out very often.



I don't post there often, but I check it out regularly;--lotsa good stuff.
All the PSW forums have so much to offer that I have to use PSW time management to get keep from getting sucked in again and again and getting nothing done.


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 28, 2010, 12:13:49 PM
Wow ziggy! That setup looks great. I can't wait to hear the reverb you're getting out of that concrete hallway.

Keith
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Skullsessions on March 28, 2010, 12:27:35 PM
Podgorny wrote on Fri, 26 March 2010 15:00

This is getting silly.
I understand Carter and Nick having their mix-off, for the sake of this thread.
But allowing everyone to participate?  Are you guys unaware of the IMP over at J.Hall's forum?  There's been like twenty of them.

Perhaps we should create a second Saloon for people who just can't be bothered with scrolling down to the bottom.


Actually, I was unaware of the IMP.  Thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: meverylame on March 28, 2010, 04:43:07 PM
ziggy wrote on Sun, 28 March 2010 09:37

hi

i was just doing my first mix. its great to be able to mix an english song without heavy swiss accent Smile

i love the tracks, fabulous. i'll post pics of the tools i use, just in case anyone is interested...

luc


index.php/fa/14528/0/

What desk is that?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 28, 2010, 07:50:58 PM
Ok everyone,

This thing is a go!

Nicholas contacted me and I forwarded him to Keith for the files.

The time for talking is over.  Let the mixing commence!

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: ziggy on March 28, 2010, 08:17:14 PM
wooohoooo, i'm so gona have "my ass handed to me" on  this thing, but i know i'm gonna learn a thing or 234907894357.

the desk is an "alice the silk" console, made in the early 80'ies. we bought 2 of them for our studio. history of the desk is very hard to find, but here's some

http://www.ibs.org.uk/files/08_The_Neve_66_Series.pdf

it's an all analog console, with digital switches and a motorized master fader hehehe. it sounds great, but we have a lot of work to do on the channel-modules, some of them  don't work properly.

ted fletcher was involved with its development, i tried to get in touch with him via his website, but didn't get an answer.

it has a very basic eq, high's 7,5k, 10k or 12k, parametric mids and low 60, 120, 240, 4 mono aux, 2 stereo aux, a volume pot and a fader Smile

again, its so much fun to work with those tracks!!! i think i will do every imp from  now on, because it's almost impossible to have a mentor in switzerland. all i do is learing by doing (and reading), i wish i had someone to show me how to do it properly.

greetings
luc

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Skullsessions on March 28, 2010, 08:29:01 PM
Ok...before Breathe does, I'm gonna start the excuses.

When I first downloaded the .zip, it was corrupted.  Had to download it a second time.  FML!

Then, when I sat down to load up the files, the power went out in my area....at this point I'm not sure if I got the work I started SAVED.

I doubt it.  And MAN....THAT MIX WAS THE ONE!

Next mix will probably suck.  And that's the one you get to hear.  Too bad you missed the good one before the power outtage.

Seriously though...these tracks sound killer just buy pulling up faders.  Good stuff!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 28, 2010, 09:00:15 PM
Everyone that's on the participant list should now have the FTP info for uploading your mix; if you did not receive it, please send me a PM and I'll get it to you ASAP.

Thanks!
don
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 28, 2010, 11:20:11 PM
Thanks bleen...got my upload info!

We need some way of judging / critique. For an experienced fellow, this will take a relatively small amount of time.

May I be so bold as to throw out some suggestions?

Fletcher?
John Whynot?
JJ?
Terry Manning?


Are any of you guys interested?  I think you could take about 10 mins per mix to listen and hack out some comments and preferences per mix.

The files should be blind and numbered so the judge evaluator doesn't know who's mix he's listening to.

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on March 29, 2010, 06:43:19 AM
I think it may take them 1-2.5 minutes/20 seconds----(to judge)  as the start of the song is in the first portion of the program material.

The second half is usually not as important as the first.  I would be interested in contrary examples as I am sure a myriad exist.  

We can all judge for ourselves any examples people are nice enougth to share,  if our kind friends are wise enough to dodge the conversation_  then God Bless the Beast and the Children

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Skullsessions on March 29, 2010, 11:40:48 AM
DAMN THAT "CREEEEAAAKKY" STOOL in the first verse!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: ziggy on March 29, 2010, 12:04:01 PM
i loved that creaking, made me smile, somehow  Smile

i just uploaded my mix, upon listening at home, i would change some things already, but we have a recording session tomorrow,so that mix has to be it.

great fun, as i said, i think i start doing the imps from now on!

thank you guys for making this possible.
luc
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 29, 2010, 12:23:13 PM
Skullsessions wrote on Mon, 29 March 2010 08:40

DAMN THAT "CREEEEAAAKKY" STOOL in the first verse!



Tell me about it.....it was me   Confused   You can actually hear me trying to STOP....and then letting the rest of my weight down during a little louder part. So embarrassing!

But it was still, hands down, the best take of that song. I may play with gain/fading it on the RADAR when I remix it this week. I'm pretty sure that it's mostly in the Lead Vox (Trk12) and the AcousticGtr (Trk10). With acoustic music and so many open mics, a lot gets picked up. Not like a rock band recording.

Here's how I helped remember where to not sit/step.  It was RIGHT in front of the board too  Sad

http://kbanning.smugmug.com/photos/800948403_pE4JF-M-1.jpg

What a beautiful old growth dougfir floor.....with a lot of stories to tell I imagine.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 29, 2010, 12:34:31 PM
I'm sure it's obvious, but when you upload your mix, please put your username in the file name. I'm not calling anyone out, just want to make sure it happens before it happens, y'know.  Very Happy
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 29, 2010, 06:35:28 PM
Done.

I'd like to thank everyone here for their participation.  

I'd especially like to thank Spindrift for the tracks and Breen for the upload site.

Let me also thank Fletcher and all the moderators here @PSW for putting up with this.

And finally, I'd like to thank Nicholas for showing me that I'm still dumb enough and immature enough to not resist getting baited into some sort of silly battle-in the middle of an incredibly busy time for me.

Cheers,

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 29, 2010, 06:36:42 PM
BTW, I put my intials in the file name: CWH.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on March 29, 2010, 07:15:42 PM
Uploading now...rushed, as we are tracking the rest of the week ourselves, with a couple of live things for the Easter weekend to prep for...

Minimal mix, at best.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rankus on March 29, 2010, 08:34:20 PM


Oh boy.  I'm busy up to the eyeballs but am hoping to carve out Wed evening to get mine done.. so hopefully up by Friday..

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Skullsessions on March 29, 2010, 10:48:36 PM
heather-skullsessions.wav is up
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hallams on March 30, 2010, 06:32:24 AM
My mix is up: Heather_Hallams.aif
Thanks to all who set this up, especially the players and songwriters. Took me a while to settle into this mix but i love the song and performance.
Been quite busy here as well but made time for this bit of fun.....it's all about the song, after all is said and done.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dan-O on March 30, 2010, 09:43:40 AM
Mix went up this morning 4am, vocals a bit forward and all. PSW was down for some reason so I couldn't post. It's been said here many times already but its worth repeating, thank you to all involved on this.

Edit: Mix is labled (Dan-O)
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 30, 2010, 09:57:17 AM
7 mixes up on the server!

Keith, you should add Nicholas/breathe to the list of participants on pg11 - after all, this is in his honor. Razz

He informed me that he "stylistically objects to this music". Gee, hope he can see through that and make a mix that will OVERTAKE US ALL! Twisted Evil

Thanks again for providing the tracks, Keith! There's nothing to hide behind with the minimalist approach and so much bleed - but real easy to make it sound like Music.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on March 30, 2010, 10:41:43 AM
That creak....I thought is was my neck.  I've been hearing that for months.  

Don - thanks for hosting the mixes (or reasonable facsimiles there of)
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 30, 2010, 10:51:21 AM
Where is the mix by the star of the show?  I want to hear the mix that oozes an aura of bold mystery.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 30, 2010, 11:02:01 AM
bleen wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 06:57

7 mixes up on the server!

Keith, you should add Nicholas/breathe to the list of participants on pg11 - after all, this is in his honor. Razz

He informed me that he "stylistically objects to this music". Gee, hope he can see through that and make a mix that will OVERTAKE US ALL! Twisted Evil

Thanks again for providing the tracks, Keith! There's nothing to hide behind with the minimalist approach and so much bleed - but real easy to make it sound like Music.


I've PM'd Nicholas the password and URL but the stats page hasn't shown him downloading anything yet.

Stylistically speaking, I don't know anything that could be more "true to the music" than a singer-songwriter sitting down for :20 mins and teaching all these other players his song and them nailing it LIVE w/o overdubs (sans the BG vox) in 4 takes.  That's pretty real music making there and I thought we did a decent job in capturing some magic.

Happy to help with the tracks and coordination...thanks to bleen for serving it up too!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: MoreSpaceEcho on March 30, 2010, 12:18:12 PM
will the mixes be available for the peanut gallery to check out?

*hopes*
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 30, 2010, 12:35:41 PM
Um yeah,

Here's my indirect reply to the whole objecting to this style of music thing.

It's really quite ironic, actually.  Here we are, working on what I would classify as an "Americana" track (I realize some would say there are more accurate classifications, but go with me folks).  I periodically work on this style of music, though less and less.  It just so happens that later today, I should be getting some Country tracks from back East.  They're produced by Big Kev, whose full time gig happens to be DJ'ing on, you guessed it, an Americana format station.

So, you gotta believe he's going to get the whole story and, with Spindrift's (Keith's) permission, this track.

Serendipity is an amazing thing.  You youngins may have to look that one up.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 30, 2010, 12:38:30 PM
In reply to the creak:

You couldn't have a better track for that creak to live in!

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Skullsessions on March 30, 2010, 02:31:47 PM
I have an abhorrent, deeply rooted disdain for the CREAAAKK!  Stylistically speaking, of course.....

But you're right...having seen the photos of the place, and understanding the mood of the tune, it works just fine.

I still tried - with no luck - to get rid of it.  For about 30 seconds.

This was a fun exercise, this whole deal.  Enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: KB_S1 on March 30, 2010, 03:07:03 PM
What a lovely treat it was to play with this song last night after finishing up.
Proved a very useful exercise in evaluating new speakers (Focal BE6 twins) and getting my new control room sorted out.

Thank you very much to all who made it happen.

Stylistic objections? That never helps pay the bills.

I liked the creak and left it in all its glory.

Will have a listen tonight and upload later.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: hargerst on March 30, 2010, 03:26:55 PM
While I was listening to the tracks, some A&R guys and record executives happened to come in and hear the tracks.  They all said that Americana is a limited format and they made a few "minor" suggestions to help the song reach a wider audience.  

I've incorporated their small suggestions into my mix. I tend to agree with them that this might appeal to a larger audience.  I think I've still managed to retain much of the original flavor of the song.

All I know is that the A&R guys and the record execs loved it, so how bad could it be?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on March 30, 2010, 03:36:17 PM
I never let those people in my shop.

Unless they have brought lunch.

Smile

JW
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on March 30, 2010, 04:02:16 PM
Spindrift wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 11:02

I've PM'd Nicholas the password and URL but the stats page hasn't shown him downloading anything yet.



He is probably very busy mixing right this minute.

In between dancing around and flailing his arms and peeling off layers of flannel to get the vibe.

Can't wait for it.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: leonardo valvassori on March 30, 2010, 05:25:40 PM
compasspnt wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 16:02


In between dancing around and flailing his arms and peeling off layers of flannel to get the vibe.




Laugh of the day for me.


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: MI on March 30, 2010, 05:35:57 PM
Leonardo Valvassori wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 17:25

compasspnt wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 16:02


In between dancing around and flailing his arms and peeling off layers of flannel to get the vibe.




Laugh of the day for me.





Same here...

And I'm certain he's hiding under all that flannel hoping this mess he's gotten himself into will all just go away...and he can continue shooting his mouth off...

I can't wait to hear the excuse for not submitting the mix...
Since the Console was not plugged in, the dog must've ate his DAW...or "I had TOO much work"...so did Carter, amongst other real life problems. But he still showed up.


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rollmottle on March 30, 2010, 05:49:55 PM
Either my ignore button is working really well or, once called on his shit, it seems Mr. Breathe has actually stopped posting...

My mix is going up tonite.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on March 30, 2010, 05:58:44 PM
hargerst wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 15:26

They all said that Americana is a limited format and they made a few "minor" suggestions to help the song reach a wider audience.  

I've incorporated their small suggestions into my mix.


Ooh, did you beat detective, vocalign, autotoon, melodyne, celemony, hegemony, bring in Timb'land and phatten that mother up?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: hargerst on March 30, 2010, 06:16:13 PM
Fiasco wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 16:58

hargerst wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 15:26

They all said that Americana is a limited format and they made a few "minor" suggestions to help the song reach a wider audience.  

I've incorporated their small suggestions into my mix.


Ooh, did you beat detective, vocalign, autotoon, melodyne, celemony, hegemony, bring in Timb'land and phatten that mother up?


Hey, I'm just doing a mix and trying to incorporate some of their suggestions.  Do you really think they don't know what they're doing?  They're major label people, getting big bucks for their opinions, so they must know what they're doing, right?

It MAY be a little "phatter".
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: KB_S1 on March 30, 2010, 07:32:23 PM
Two things.

First, what file format are we submitting? I have 24/48 and 16/44.1 both ready.
I think the mix is peaking around -6.

Second, for those who like to know these things.
My mix was all ITB on Pro Tools.
Focal BE6 Twin monitors.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 30, 2010, 07:41:27 PM
Go ahead and post the 24/48. I can SRC/dither if necessary.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 30, 2010, 07:43:03 PM
Nicholas has been MIA since I handed him ass in another thread, and he responded with, "I was just kidding," or some such nonsense.  Actually, what I did was just use his own words.  You have to be careful about that information you put out on the Internet.  Just ask Adrian Gozun.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: mdbeh on March 30, 2010, 08:50:13 PM
MI wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 16:35

And I'm certain he's hiding under all that flannel hoping this mess he's gotten himself into will all just go away...and he can continue shooting his mouth off...


Maybe this is petty, but if he's really chickening out of mixing -- and it sounds like he is -- I don't think he should post anymore.

This forum's a great resource because it's not an Internet circle jerk -- people bring real world experience.  It's amazing, really, how often I've asked a question and heard from people who actually worked on that session, helped design that piece of gear, etc.

Internet legends-in-their-own-mind, on the other hand, are a dime a dozen.  It's hard for me to imagine anything less interesting than what he's posted here.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on March 30, 2010, 09:02:39 PM


That mixing match should have never happen on the first place on a serious
audio forum like here..........

JN
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 30, 2010, 09:35:55 PM
bigbone wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 18:02



That mixing match should have never happen on the first place on a serious
audio forum like here..........


But it sure was fun to have some really excellent tracks to spend just a little time on as a break from my other sessions this week, as well as get to hear how other folks approach the same song. I couldn't care less about the reason this all began.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rollmottle on March 30, 2010, 09:53:26 PM
My mix is up on bleen's server. Bleed city, but the violin recording gave me the most hassle.

I'm holding off listening to the rest until everybody else is done. Great excercise...looking forward to hear what everybody came up with.

Cheers,
Anthony
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 30, 2010, 09:55:54 PM
Look out!

J.J.'s a ringer!

I'm going to out him, and say that he produced June Carter recording in the same way these tracks were recorded--and he won a Grammy for it.

Thankfully, he hasn't indicated that he's entering a mix.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 30, 2010, 10:04:32 PM
I just finished mixing a live DVD - I'm so entrenched in bleed that this mix was nuthin'!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 30, 2010, 10:08:11 PM
rollmottle wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 18:53

Bleed city, but the violin recording gave me the most hassle.



Trouble I'm having is reigning in the bass/kick to get some good definition on the low end vs murkiness.

I should have mine posted tomorrow.

Thanks,
Keith
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on March 30, 2010, 10:12:10 PM
CWHumphrey wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 20:55

Look out!

J.J.'s a ringer!

I'm going to out him, and say that he produced June Carter recording in the same way these tracks were recorded--and he won a Grammy for it.

Thankfully, he hasn't indicated that he's entering a mix.

Cheers,



WTF????
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hallams on March 30, 2010, 10:21:22 PM
Wireline wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 13:12

CWHumphrey wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 20:55

Look out!

J.J.'s a ringer!

I'm going to out him, and say that he produced June Carter recording in the same way these tracks were recorded--and he won a Grammy for it.

Thankfully, he hasn't indicated that he's entering a mix.

Cheers,



WTF????



....all in jest,.....surley you can tell there is nothing too serious going on here, but i'm sure we are all trying to pull a good mix.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 30, 2010, 10:23:04 PM
I'm not joking about J.J.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hank Alrich on March 31, 2010, 12:56:37 AM
compasspnt wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 13:02

Spindrift wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 11:02

I've PM'd Nicholas the password and URL but the stats page hasn't shown him downloading anything yet.



He is probably very busy mixing right this minute.

In between dancing around and flailing his arms and peeling off layers of flannel to get the vibe.

Can't wait for it.



Good thing, because if you could wait for it, you might be waiting a while.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hank Alrich on March 31, 2010, 12:58:05 AM
hargerst wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 15:16

Fiasco wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 16:58

hargerst wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 15:26

They all said that Americana is a limited format and they made a few "minor" suggestions to help the song reach a wider audience.  

I've incorporated their small suggestions into my mix.


Ooh, did you beat detective, vocalign, autotoon, melodyne, celemony, hegemony, bring in Timb'land and phatten that mother up?


Hey, I'm just doing a mix and trying to incorporate some of their suggestions.  Do you really think they don't know what they're doing?  They're major label people, getting big bucks for their opinions, so they must know what they're doing, right?

It MAY be a little "phatter".



Harvey, Fritos help get the phat.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hank Alrich on March 31, 2010, 12:59:55 AM
bigbone wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 18:02



That mixing match should have never happen on the first place on a serious
audio forum like here..........

JN


Sir,

Have you no sense of humors??
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: danickstr on March 31, 2010, 02:02:40 AM
here's a good laugh for those doing the mix and listening to the same song a million times:

http://home.comcast.net/~ndellos/Hedderglitch.mp3
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: KB_S1 on March 31, 2010, 05:57:19 AM
bigbone wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 02:02



That mixing match should have never happen on the first place on a serious
audio forum like here..........

JN



For me it was a nice way to spend 3 hours after a recording session.
A bit of fun.
A useful exercise.

After listening at home there are changes I would like to make.
Too busy for that now but I think I know where I need to work on my room acoustics better for the experience.

In no way was I treating it as a match, or any competitive element.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dan-O on March 31, 2010, 07:47:41 AM
KB_S1 wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 05:57

bigbone wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 02:02



That mixing match should have never happen on the first place on a serious
audio forum like here..........

JN



For me it was a nice way to spend 3 hours after a recording session.
A bit of fun.
A useful exercise.

After listening at home there are changes I would like to make.
Too busy for that now but I think I know where I need to work on my room acoustics better for the experience.

In no way was I treating it as a match, or any competitive element.



I'd love to make a quick tweak(s)to the mix if it was permitted. Vocals are bit forward but oh well. Really nice voice so it's showcased some. There's a mouth noise I failed to get as well.  


As for the bleed.......let it. Love it. Real.

That said, if there wasn't as much bleed I would have taken to the mute button here and there. I don't think it would have strayed from the feel or intent.


And I as well in no way consider this a match or competition.

Good times.

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on March 31, 2010, 07:55:22 AM
I tried to keep things as much as "being in the room with them' as possible...warts and all.  I tried to add some aroma of the wooden floor and sawdust wafting in the reverb wash, just could not quite get it though.

Now THAT would be a great hardware/plug in feature...

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dan-O on March 31, 2010, 08:46:20 AM
Wireline wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 07:55

I tried to keep things as much as "being in the room with them' as possible...warts and all.  I tried to add some aroma of the wooden floor and sawdust wafting in the reverb wash, just could not quite get it though.

Now THAT would be a great hardware/plug in feature...




Dialing in the amount of "contaminants" would be a great feature on a verb. Dial in dirt, sawdust, dust bunnies, spider webs, mold, animal dander, beer swill, last nights party...oh I could go on.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on March 31, 2010, 08:50:36 AM
No dust bunnies...they are evil and scare the s**t out of me.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on March 31, 2010, 09:34:54 AM
Hank Alrich wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 00:59

bigbone wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 18:02



That mixing match should have never happen on the first place on a serious
audio forum like here..........

JN


Sir,

Have you no sense of humors??


Yes i do Sir....

It's not the mixing match itself, it's the way it start with someone who obviously
dont know anything about recording.

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on March 31, 2010, 09:41:30 AM
KB_S1 wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 05:57

bigbone wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 02:02



That mixing match should have never happen on the first place on a serious
audio forum like here..........

JN



For me it was a nice way to spend 3 hours after a recording session.
A bit of fun.
A useful exercise.

After listening at home there are changes I would like to make.
Too busy for that now but I think I know where I need to work on my room acoustics better for the experience.

In no way was I treating it as a match, or any competitive element.


And you need a free mixing song on the net to find about your room acoustic


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: KB_S1 on March 31, 2010, 10:14:08 AM
bigbone wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 14:41

KB_S1 wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 05:57

bigbone wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 02:02



That mixing match should have never happen on the first place on a serious
audio forum like here..........

JN



For me it was a nice way to spend 3 hours after a recording session.
A bit of fun.
A useful exercise.

After listening at home there are changes I would like to make.
Too busy for that now but I think I know where I need to work on my room acoustics better for the experience.

In no way was I treating it as a match, or any competitive element.


And you need a free mixing song on the net to find about your room acoustic





No paying client with expectations.
I did it in my own time after a paying session.
I will now be spending at least another 2 days working on the room. Some proper science stuff will be employed.
I will then invite a friend and his band down for a couple of days to record so that I can have more no-pressure material to work on.
It is very rare to get a chance to mix something that will also be mixed by other, much more experienced mixers. This is the sort of thing that used to happen with assistant/junior engineers and the head guys. Unfortunately that apprenticeship vibe is all but gone.
I see this as a great opportunity to learn. This is a serious place. I am serious about what I do. This is a serious bit of fun.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dan-O on March 31, 2010, 10:19:04 AM
bigbone - I believe what some of us feel ,and I think it's been said before, is this is an opportunity. We don't care about the OP as much as we care about bettering our craft. In this case we all had access to Carter's skills. Something I value highly.

I'm not interested in shooting it out. I'm interested in a person who is accomplished in his field and what he brings to the table. I've already taken away insight and I've let Carter know as much.

I think this is the perspective most here have with this.  
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 31, 2010, 10:34:05 AM
Nine mixes up on the server!

Bigbone, yours isn't there yet - oh, right, you weren't participating, just armchair quarterbacking. We have 17 pages of a thread that actually evolved from playground taunting to some actual mixing/learning/sharing of information, and then you're going to jump in and start questioning the participants' abilities/studios/etc?

I don't get it.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hank Alrich on March 31, 2010, 11:18:41 AM
Last time we cleaned under the refrigerator my wife said, "Wow, dust rhinoceroses!" Terrifying.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hank Alrich on March 31, 2010, 11:19:51 AM
bigbone wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 06:34

Hank Alrich wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 00:59

bigbone wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 18:02



That mixing match should have never happen on the first place on a serious
audio forum like here..........

JN


Sir,

Have you no sense of humors??


Yes i do Sir....

It's not the mixing match itself, it's the way it start with someone who obviously
dont know anything about recording.




But see, Grasshopper, that it will end with someones who do know some things about recording. <g>
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on March 31, 2010, 11:58:07 AM
Although this is not ultimately about our intrepid friend,
I wonder if he might be paying someone to mix his submission?

He talks as though he purchases lots o' gear...

I'm just sayin'.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 31, 2010, 12:01:57 PM
Fiasco wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 08:58

Although this is not ultimately about our intrepid friend,
I wonder if he might be paying someone to mix his submission?

He talks as though he purchases lots o' gear...

I'm just sayin'.


I wonder if Keith can check the server stats and see if Nicholas has downloaded the tracks yet...
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 31, 2010, 12:15:34 PM
CWHumphrey wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 18:55

Look out!

J.J.'s a ringer!

I'm going to out him, and say that he produced June Carter recording in the same way these tracks were recorded--and he won a Grammy for it.

Thankfully, he hasn't indicated that he's entering a mix.

Cheers,


Were these tracks recorded in a log cabin, onto black faced ADATs, monitoring on headphones, while in the same room as the musicians?  Can you say "nightmare"?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on March 31, 2010, 01:04:02 PM
bleen wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 12:01

Fiasco wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 08:58

Although this is not ultimately about our intrepid friend,
I wonder if he might be paying someone to mix his submission?

He talks as though he purchases lots o' gear...

I'm just sayin'.


I wonder if Keith can check the server stats and see if Nicholas has downloaded the tracks yet...


Maybe J.J. is mixing for Nicholas.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on March 31, 2010, 01:06:11 PM
bleen wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 10:34

Nine mixes up on the server!

Bigbone, yours isn't there yet - oh, right, you weren't participating, just armchair quarterbacking. We have 17 pages of a thread that actually evolved from playground taunting to some actual mixing/learning/sharing of information, and then you're going to jump in and start questioning the participants' abilities/studios/etc?

I don't get it.



It's not my problem if you '' don't get ''. you don't have to, and by the way, i don't  '' question the  participant abilities, studio etc ""   some peoples here can seriously mix, but some other hmmmmmm ...... end of that tread for me here.

I wish all the best to those who mix and hope that he will be a fun
mixing session, as all session should be.

JN
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dan-O on March 31, 2010, 01:39:16 PM
What is it about this thread...?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 31, 2010, 02:08:11 PM
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 09:15

Were these tracks recorded in a log cabin, onto black faced ADATs, monitoring on headphones, while in the same room as the musicians?  Can you say "nightmare"?


All "yes" with the exception of the ADATs and we had powered monitors for playback/rough mixing.  

It was a lot of work but we had a lot of fun doing it. We loaded in from my trailer, setup, practiced/tracked, rough mixed, cursorily mastered & burned CDs, tore down and loaded up from Friday afternoon until Sunday 7pm.  I was SPENT!  24 songs...all usable.  Adam Samuels was a huge help in so many ways...I couldn't have done that being the sole engineer.  A fun memory for me for sure.

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 31, 2010, 02:45:58 PM
No additional downloads. I haven't seen anyone download the file since I PM'd Nicholas the PW.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Sean Eldon Qualls on March 31, 2010, 03:02:01 PM
Can't we just imagine what his mix sounds like?

As of now, it's certainly the most transparent.

I wonder, if he just imported the files into the DAW and bounced...would he win?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dale Francis on March 31, 2010, 03:09:37 PM
if the post was to challenge and stimulate ... Breathe won!
If _this_ was to call a troll out ... ??
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 31, 2010, 03:21:59 PM
Mix posted in 24/48k   MD5 hash: f358988af5282c02285d0aad03bb1bea

Bleen, who's left to post?  Maybe we can wrap it up early if everyone who's gonna submit a mix has already.

Thanks,
Keith
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 31, 2010, 03:26:08 PM
Here's the current list of mixes:

bleen
KB_S1
Dan-O
Hallams
rollmottle
skullsessions
spindrift
CWHumphrey
wireline
ziggy
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on March 31, 2010, 03:49:08 PM
Should have mine tonight.

It should be 'hopefully not too painfully' obvious I am a novice.

I look forward to hearing everyones' submissions.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Skullsessions on March 31, 2010, 04:17:02 PM
bleen wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 14:26

Here's the current list of mixes:

bleen
KB_S1
Dan-O
Hallams
rollmottle
skullsessions
spindrift
CWHumphrey
wireline
ziggy


BTW, Mr. Gunn.  You shouldn't just let ANYONE onto your FTP site.

All I did was listen, find the mix I liked best, copied it and renamed it.  While I was at it, I changed the names on some of the other files.  Can't recall which ones.  I have a bad memory.

Twisted Evil
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on March 31, 2010, 04:44:36 PM
Skullsessions wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 13:17


BTW, Mr. Gunn.  You shouldn't just let ANYONE onto your FTP site.

All I did was listen, find the mix I liked best, copied it and renamed it.  While I was at it, I changed the names on some of the other files.  Can't recall which ones.  I have a bad memory.

Twisted Evil


That's why I've got a local version on my studio computer of everyone's mix as soon as they upload it. Razz
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Skullsessions on March 31, 2010, 04:51:24 PM
Eh....just as well.

I didn't like anyone else's mix anyway.   Shocked
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Skullsessions on March 31, 2010, 04:55:48 PM
I almost turned in my mix with everything deleted except for that floor creaking.

That's the kind of thinking that will allow me to overtake you.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 31, 2010, 05:15:25 PM
Skullsessions wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 13:55

I almost turned in my mix with everything deleted except for that floor creaking.

That's the kind of thinking that will allow me to overtake you.



LOL!!!!!!!



This file renaming silliness is where the MD5 hash is handy!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Md5
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 31, 2010, 05:16:53 PM
Fiasco wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 12:49

Should have mine tonight.

It should be 'hopefully not too painfully' obvious I am a novice.

I look forward to hearing everyones' submissions.



Philip, don't worry about it....Listen, Do, & Learn!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rankus on March 31, 2010, 06:20:55 PM

Trying to get mine done this evening (Wed.)for an upload tomorrow noon (ish) ...

I admit that this material is WAY outside my normal loud bashy, and may be about to make a fool of myself... but, then again I seem to always do that around here anyway hah

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 31, 2010, 06:25:16 PM
Peter Beckmann has volunteered to do the mix evals and will do the bulk of the work tomorrow. Any straglers (up until Sat eve) will be eval'd on Tues of next week.

Thanks Peter!
Keith
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: KB_S1 on March 31, 2010, 06:49:26 PM
Will we be able to listen to the others too?

Is it just a case of accessing the ftp page?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on March 31, 2010, 07:16:28 PM
KB_S1 wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 15:49

Will we be able to listen to the others too?

Is it just a case of accessing the ftp page?


When we get all the mixes in, I'll put them up on my website for listens.

Thanks,
Keith
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hallams on March 31, 2010, 08:44:20 PM
18 pages and still going....well done breathe. Sort of reminds me of that other thread"How long is a piece of string? ". I suppose we will know when it's all over when Helen gets to tell us how it ends........
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Peter Beckmann on April 01, 2010, 02:22:56 AM
Its 7.15 AM here in the UK.

I'm just getting ready to leave and go to my mastering studio to download the mixes and start listening. I've got some time this morning before a session this afternoon.

Not sure if there's anymore mixes to come, but if they aren't here this morning they'll have to wait until Tuesday when I'll be back in the studio.

Keith, should I post comments on today's batch of mixes now, or wait till Tuesday in case of more submissions?

For those who are  interested, you can take a look at my set-up here:
http://www.technologyworks.co.uk

Looking forward to it

Peter
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on April 01, 2010, 02:37:54 AM
Despite the desire for feedback now, I think it's prudent to wait until all the mixes are in.......after all, I show that we have another download happening right now.  Nicholas, is that you?

Keith
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rankus on April 01, 2010, 03:23:04 AM


I'm uploading right now Don / Keith / Peter.  Should be up in about 20 mins or less.

In case anyone is interested the gear was:

Nuendo > Apogee DA16x > Toft ATB console > API2500 Bus Comp > Apogee AD16x > Nuendo...

The only effect was an old Korg rackmount verb unit. A couple of tracks got a UAD La2a ITB to tame some lumps.

In other words: Manual mix on the Toft ATB

Keepin it real yo


Thanks again guys!

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Peter Beckmann on April 01, 2010, 05:48:28 AM
Anybody uploading now, please don't announce in this thread 'cos it means I can identify your mix. PM Keith and Don instead

Don has given me unidentified files so I'm listening blind.

May I say what a great way to start my day just listening to honest from the heart music.

Really enjoying the mixes thus far.


Peter
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on April 01, 2010, 07:50:50 PM
Anyone else on the list planning on uploading? Harvey? Nicholas?If so, please PM me when you have so I can grab them from the server.

Thanks!
don
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: TotalSonic on April 01, 2010, 09:22:50 PM
breathe wrote on Thu, 18 March 2010 19:17

Martin Bisi is still doing good shit.

Nicholas




Martin is an awesome guy and has a very long track record of making super cool sounding recordings.  But ironic to your post's intent he's actually been taking a slight sabbatical on engineering these days in order to focus on his own band's music.
Smile

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Ross Hogarth on April 02, 2010, 02:52:18 PM
wheres adrian gozun ...er .. i mean breath ....?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: KB_S1 on April 02, 2010, 02:59:15 PM
Ross Hogarth wrote on Fri, 02 April 2010 19:52

wheres adrian gozun ...er .. i mean breath ....?


Choking?


In all seriousness he should get back in here. A great learning opportunity.
For all of us.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on April 02, 2010, 04:03:49 PM
A breath of hot air.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Peter Beckmann on April 02, 2010, 05:39:56 PM
Hey Terry.

How's your meters only mix coming along


Cool  Laughing  Cool

Peter
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on April 02, 2010, 07:34:34 PM
Peter Beckmann wrote on Fri, 02 April :39

Hey Terry.

How's your meters only mix coming along?



Actually, I would love to have done one this way.

Two things though...

Firstly, very very busy here, just no time.

And secondly, the one I did was based on the music coming from 24 track tape. Part of the deal for me was having a pretty good idea which tracks most people would put what instruments on, and knowing the ballistics of the VU meters on my Studer so well in relation to my SSL's VU meters.  I would not have attempted it even then if the desk had light meters.

So I was reticent to attempt this with no time, and from Protools.

But I will try it, when I can!


http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/4307/6490/


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on April 02, 2010, 07:53:37 PM
Know what?  I'm pretty busy too but howzabout I try one with an eggtimer - say…
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on April 02, 2010, 09:26:59 PM
Speakerless you mean?

One prerequisite is that you have never heard the song before in any form, so hopefully that hasn't happened.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on April 02, 2010, 10:43:01 PM
I was thinking just really fast.

Wanna make it 10 minutes?

JW

PS - oh and I haven't heard the track
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on April 03, 2010, 12:59:37 AM
OK, you guys wanna use the same track everyone else has been working on? I'll PM you the PW.

Keith
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dan-O on April 03, 2010, 01:01:05 AM
PLEASE both of you DO A MIX! I don't care if the deadline is extended a day or so. Not the point for me personally.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on April 03, 2010, 02:02:45 AM
Yeah I'll do one - but I can't guarantee I'll get to it tomorrow (Saturday).  But I'll pull down the files just in case.

And the deal is I will set a timer and do it extremely fast.

I figure print after 1/2 hour should do it?  And I won't listen to any of the audio until I have the files in my Mac Pro and start the timer.

Agreed?

JW
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on April 03, 2010, 02:41:59 AM
jwhynot wrote on Fri, 02 April 2010 23:02

And the deal is I will set a timer and do it extremely fast.

I figure print after 1/2 hour should do it?  And I won't listen to any of the audio until I have the files in my Mac Pro and start the timer.

Agreed?

JW



I have a sinking feeling I'm in for an ass-kicking......
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on April 03, 2010, 03:19:56 AM
Now… don't be sellin' yourself short Keith!

Got the tracks - but I won't unzip anything until I'm looking at an open Pro Tools session Smile

JW
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Peter Beckmann on April 03, 2010, 07:14:41 AM
Regarding the deadline, I've checked out the first 11 and I was going to wrap it all up late Monday / Tuesday morning [UK time]

Don will hopefully send me any more annonymous files between now and then.



Peter
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dan-O on April 03, 2010, 09:19:02 AM
Peter Beckmann wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 07:14

Regarding the deadline, I've checked out the first 11 and I was going to wrap it all up late Monday / Tuesday morning [UK time]

Don will hopefully send me any more annonymous files between now and then.



Peter



Peter with my extended deadline comment I didn't intend to disregard your time that you've graciously given here.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dan-O on April 03, 2010, 10:00:41 AM
Nor anyone's valuable time here.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on April 03, 2010, 10:48:45 AM
Here's what I find sad about this thread. Nicholas is missing out on an opportunity to experience the pleasure of mixing this (or ANY) song. I don't give a flying monkey whether he's "stylistically opposed" to the music or not. No one else here seemed to care and it may not be the first kind of music they'd put on for their listening pleasure - it never came up because it DOESN'T MATTER.

It's the perfect song for him to do his "documentarian" style of mixing - a bunch of folks in one room with a single overdub. Doesn't get much more real than that.

I think I can speak for everyone that participated that none of us care who makes the "best" mix. The only person who could decide that is the artist and they aren't involved. Of course, I'm not worried about Nicholas "overtaking" me since I'm not over 40. Very Happy

I'm stepping off my soapbox now because I have to go to the studio and enjoy recording music all day.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Sean Eldon Qualls on April 03, 2010, 01:18:58 PM
With all this talk of no-listen phantom mixing, I'm inspired to make an attempt at no-listen phantom judging before my session today.

All mixes need more 650Hz. Universally. Every track and across the 2.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: ziggy on April 03, 2010, 01:26:38 PM
damn you're good!  Smile
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Gold on April 03, 2010, 01:47:45 PM
bleen wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 10:48

Here's what I find sad about this thread. Nicholas is missing out on an opportunity to experience the pleasure of mixing this (or ANY) song. I don't give a flying monkey whether he's "stylistically opposed" to the music or not. No one else here seemed to care and it may not be the first kind of music they'd put on for their listening pleasure - it never came up because it DOESN'T MATTER.




"No one pays me to like it".
-Me
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on April 03, 2010, 01:52:53 PM
bleen wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 07:48



I think I can speak for everyone that participated that none of us care who makes the "best" mix. The only person who could decide that is the artist and they aren't involved. Of course, I'm not worried about Nicholas "overtaking" me since I'm not over 40.


I'm over 40, and my original point was that to overtake me, you'd have to meet me out in the marketplace, the "battlefield", if you will.  Cyberspace is not the battlefield.

That's when this whole spectacle began.

Nicholas, wherever you are, you've missed out on a great opportunity-namely, to do it and then show your wares.

So, I guess we're going to mark this as a win for the over the hill crowd.

Cheers,


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on April 03, 2010, 02:11:10 PM
breathe wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 09:54

I was insulted by the music selection for the mix off.  It was patently boring, which goes completely against my music tastes.  Maybe whoever chose it did so to prove that a good engineer can work with any kind of music material.  I guess I just need to be inspired by the music I work with, which is why I only work with music I'm inspired by.

If people really want me to take a stab at the music that was provided I'll do it but maybe not for two weeks, I'm totally slammed right now.

Best,
Nicholas





...a little tidbit in the saloon...

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: John Ivan on April 03, 2010, 02:24:39 PM
What he wrote here is truly amazing. I wish I had down loaded the tracks. It's a nice tune, and well recorded. {Based on the stuff at his site}..

This is all very sad.. The up side is that I hope to hear some fine mixes..

Ivan...............
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on April 03, 2010, 05:01:58 PM
I'm operating on the theory that Nicholas can't help himself.

So I'll leave him be.

Meanwhile - I thought it would be fun to mix something.

JW
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: breathe on April 03, 2010, 07:26:50 PM
Okay dudes, I will only mix this material if I can make it like a Richard Simmons dance record.  Can I do that?

Nicholas




Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on April 03, 2010, 07:47:37 PM
breathe wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 19:26

Okay dudes, I will only mix this material if I can make it like a Richard Simmons dance record.  Can I do that?

Nicholas







Ok i will be the none PC here.... you are full of shit and can't even mix anything beside your mind............



Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on April 03, 2010, 07:49:23 PM
I am under the assumption that you can't do anything.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Kassonica on April 03, 2010, 09:24:49 PM
No wonder your online name is breathe as you are all hot air.

Get some help, seriously dude.................

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on April 04, 2010, 12:46:30 AM
breathe wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 16:26

Okay dudes, I will only mix this material if I can make it like a Richard Simmons dance record.  Can I do that?

Nicholas







I personally would prefer that you didn't. Everyone else made a solid professional effort with this material....
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Ross Hogarth on April 04, 2010, 01:24:38 AM
this guy is everything thats sucks about the Internet
here someone who would not even be let into the vestibule of any real studio anywhere but we let him into our living rooms or dens or studios and give him the time of day and respect
he deserves none of it and makes us all seem like his inside joke

hey Breathe ....... you are disrespectful and should not be dignified anymore with another minute of time

CWHumphrey wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 11:11

breathe wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 09:54

I was insulted by the music selection for the mix off.  It was patently boring, which goes completely against my music tastes.  Maybe whoever chose it did so to prove that a good engineer can work with any kind of music material.  I guess I just need to be inspired by the music I work with, which is why I only work with music I'm inspired by.

If people really want me to take a stab at the music that was provided I'll do it but maybe not for two weeks, I'm totally slammed right now.

Best,
Nicholas





...a little tidbit in the saloon...

Cheers,

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on April 04, 2010, 07:10:32 AM
Indeed.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Larrchild on April 04, 2010, 01:27:05 PM
Seldom does a person actually work toward eventually being or becoming the other person they invent on the internet. That would take effort.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on April 04, 2010, 01:47:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMLjv3pxc3M

All I can say is "wow."  Birkenstocks and a unibrow?

To quote Dean Wormer: "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rankus on April 04, 2010, 03:10:40 PM

Somebody should be voted off the island imo.

But perhaps not till Wed.

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: danickstr on April 04, 2010, 06:47:02 PM
testing one two - three?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: tripit on April 04, 2010, 09:29:54 PM
Breathe, don't be such a loser. Go back to your pot smoke filled cave and imagine you are all that, because that's about as far as you'll ever get.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on April 04, 2010, 09:56:45 PM
Too many ad hominem attacks.  Let's cool it.

JW
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on April 04, 2010, 10:02:45 PM
jwhynot wrote on Sun, 04 April 2010 18:56

Too many ad hominem attacks.  Let's cool it.

JW


Quoted for emphasis.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on April 04, 2010, 10:03:41 PM
jwhynot wrote on Sun, 04 April 2010 20:56

Too many ad hominem attacks.  Let's cool it.

JW


Agreed.  Can't hurt anyone to just let the hosts deal with the dude now.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: marcel on April 04, 2010, 11:05:21 PM
Breathe Dominant.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: J.J. Blair on April 05, 2010, 12:25:24 AM
marcel wrote on Sun, 04 April 2010 20:05

Breathe Dominant.


Sorry, but that's really funny.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on April 05, 2010, 09:15:53 AM
Lets invite Nicholas back-   I feel fine about the legitmacy of my request as I have probably dealt the ugliest blow.   I want to remind us all_____ as it has been a nice lesson to me --  that people can get better and I always hold that open best I can  ---    there has been a few examples of not say exellence -but better after the fact(s)  --  and to continue Carters throw _show up - mix this song--  if you want a different one pick it.      no evaluative comparisons  but for fun --  and lets watch us all get better.  xj

ps__do not read the subtext I do want want to say it______

we all love each other love best!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Larrchild on April 05, 2010, 09:26:15 AM
No, I think it is good to examine the broader view here. If this is what it took to eliminate these daily tweaked-out posts about nothing on Fletcher's forum, then maybe it wasn't all for naught.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on April 05, 2010, 09:48:18 AM
Of course you are right,

but there has been that 1% of the time people rise to the occasion...  call me a cynic and a sucker parading as a believable fool as I want and know this is not it-  it is likely something else,     but the invatation was made..  and death dealt be laid_ unles life let it spring from ding a long to ding a ling as that is all that is left we are rolling tip to tip at best

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on April 05, 2010, 09:52:57 AM
to re-iterate I do think you are right Larry-  sometimes being a cheerleader and coach is misapplied sorry!  I was offering my unwanted assistance_ but it takes two to tango -and this is unlike tango.     this is like 30 not to tango.....

edit. I will try my best to take no bait 2010          second try.........................
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on April 05, 2010, 10:32:22 AM
To address the title of the post in true Breathy style to follow my post with 3 of my own self......

For whatever it is worth,    I have been lucky enough to work with ---rather work for
some fantastic people and I would say that If I had to gauge cynicism I would say it would be more often found on the under 40 side.....   not to imply I have an opinion but empirically, not only have the older gents been the source of knowledge  they are in fact more young at heart and kind and as impossible as it may sound less cynical

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on April 05, 2010, 07:22:23 PM
Here is breathe talking about his mixing prowess...

http://www.youtube.com/user/mindbreathe#p/a/u/0/1HIc_tNQDI8


And here he is pealing off layers of flannel as he prepares to mix...

http://www.youtube.com/user/mindbreathe#p/a/u/1/fMLjv3pxc3M


And I finally understand all of this. One thing tips it off:

S & S!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on April 05, 2010, 07:30:50 PM
compasspnt wrote on Mon, 05 April 2010 19:22

Here is breathe talking about his mixing prowess...

http://www.youtube.com/user/mindbreathe#p/a/u/0/1HIc_tNQDI8


And here he is pealing off layers of flannel as he prepares to mix...

http://www.youtube.com/user/mindbreathe#p/a/u/1/fMLjv3pxc3M


And I finally understand all of this. One thing tips it off:

S & S!



this dude is seriously sick..............
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rankus on April 05, 2010, 08:38:45 PM

ahh, now I get the "dancing while stripping off flannel" comment.  But I wish I didn't (get it)

My animosity has become pity.

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: danickstr on April 05, 2010, 10:22:23 PM
I think I had a post disappear, but I am not sure.  Anyway, I was saying that the best part of this forum is the dignity with which it conducts itself.  I am always glad I can count on the forum to take the high road.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hallams on April 05, 2010, 10:27:37 PM
well  i'm not going to sling any more crap in his direction,.....i'm just hoping he might move his desk out of the corner of his room and decide to submit a mix of heather. I'ts a good opportunity to see how his mix translates to the outside world.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rollmottle on April 05, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
danickstr wrote on Mon, 05 April 2010 19:22

 I am always glad I can count on the forum to take the high road.


Unfortunately I don't think you can say that in this case. It's gotten uncharacteristically ugly in here.

I'm looking forward to getting this thread back on track and seeing the outcome of our impromptu mix-off. I'm excited to hear what everybody else did and learn what I maybe could have done differently.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rankus on April 05, 2010, 10:46:37 PM


Yes, I regrettably lost my cool in one of the other B threads and used some rather harsh language.

I just couldn't take some drug addict troll getting his jollies by mocking the good folks around here any more.

Thankfully the Mod has deleted my post and many many others like it.

I hope B has been permanently banned, and the forum can get back to it's usual high standards.

I apologize to anyone (except B) who may have read my post and been offended by it.


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on April 05, 2010, 11:39:20 PM
Peter is scheduled to have the final listens on Tuesday. When he's finished and posts his comments, I'll make all the mixes available on my site.

Keith
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Peter Beckmann on April 06, 2010, 12:52:27 PM
The REP mix off!!

This whole thing has morphed somewhat from its original aim, a mix off between Nicolas and all the people he seemed to regard as washed up has-beens over forty.
What it seems to have become is just people enjoying the art of mixing, and just enjoying the music.

Anyhow, I foolishly put myself forward to listen to all these mixes. I didn't realise there would be quite so many. I often get a vocal up or maybe guitar/snare up mix as alternatives when I'm mastering, but I've never been given 13 or 14 different versions to choose from!

So thanks to everyone who put in the time and effort to mix the track. Thanks to Keith for supplying the multis and to Don for coordinating the mixes.

The gory details.


Don has disguised all the file names so I have no idea who's is who's. All I have is numbers.

There wasn't a standard set for file delivery, but as it turns out nearly everyone delivered 48KHz  24bit files. There was one 44.1Khz file so I did have to make a decision how to deal with it. However, since I got the 1st 10 mixes in one zip, and 9 of them were 48KHz, I made the decision to up-sample any that were at 44.1KHz. NB: Obviously I wouldn't do this in a real mastering situation

I did the resample twice incidentally. one with RX and one with Barbabatch. The files don't totally null, they do to about -70 so I picked the one Iiked the sound of best. It was RX in the end.

I wanted to level match the tracks before I heard anything, so I loaded them all onto separate tracks in my HD rig WITH MY MONITORS MUTED and used a variation of the patented Terry Manning
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: ziggy on April 06, 2010, 01:00:45 PM
which is mine, which is mine???

hahaha

thank you very much for doing this. i have a suspicion which mix is mine, looking forward to knowing for sure!

luc
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: hargerst on April 06, 2010, 01:10:35 PM
Peter Beckmann wrote on Tue, 06 April 2010 11:52

The REP mix off!!

10.   The most 'produced' of the first batch. Bass and drums working well. For me, the vocal maybe a little too much fx. Remind me, who had the A&R man making suggestions...

Peter

That was me who made the "A&R guy" joke (as a setup for my mix entry), but in the end, I didn't submit a mix, since I was gonna completely redo all the tracks - in a heavy metal format, as a novelty entry.

At the last minute (on Sunday), I decided to stay out of the competition and just see how things turned out.  It would have been funny, though.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on April 06, 2010, 01:18:15 PM
OK, here are 2 minute clips of the mixes.  Don will post the answer key on Thursday.

http://www.lonelygrange.com/pswmix/pswmix.html

It takes a little bit for the buffer to fill in between tracks, there is a little buffer meter at the top so be patient when clicking between songs. If you wanted to, you could simply click on each song and buffer them all to your local cache, then play through them in a more rapid fashion.  Unfortunately, these streams are not level matched so you'll need to do a bit of work to keep the volumes consistent via your local monitoring setup.

Thanks for the effort & feedback Peter!

Anyone else....comments are welcome on the mixes!

Thanks,
Keith
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rollmottle on April 06, 2010, 01:54:23 PM
Thanks for your time and comments Peter.

I know which one is mine but I'll let Don do the reveal. Would be curious to know everybody's signal chain and methodology (console, ITB, hybrid, summed, etc) once the cat is out of the bag and how (if) that relates to people's listening preference.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on April 06, 2010, 02:05:14 PM
Nu-uh, dude...you first
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Kris on April 06, 2010, 04:01:24 PM
If I was forced to pick one after a single listen it would be mix 7 or 8...
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on April 06, 2010, 04:50:31 PM
Wow!

Peter, thanks for the time you put into this!

Nicholas, you're missing it!

I'm amazed at what this grudge match has morphed into.  

So cool!

Cheers,  
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: ziggy on April 06, 2010, 05:00:41 PM
Peter, i have a question: can you explain what you mean by "lumpy"?

not a native english speaker here...  Smile

thanks!
luc
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on April 06, 2010, 05:24:31 PM
Peter and Keith, thanks so much for the tracks, time, energy, etc.

I had a lot of fun, and I always learn something any time the opportunity presents itself.

I am pretty sure I know mine, and Peter's crits ring true.

First listen, I like #12.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Peter Beckmann on April 06, 2010, 06:20:56 PM
ziggy wrote on Tue, 06 April 2010 22:00

Peter, i have a question: can you explain what you mean by "lumpy"?

not a native english speaker here...  Smile

thanks!
luc


I usually mean sticking out in a not very pretty way. Think of it like a sauce in a restaurant. Instead of a smooth bechamel you have lumps in it, spoiling the texture.


Peter
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on April 06, 2010, 06:30:09 PM
Certainly reveals shortcomings in one's listening environment, when one's hardware is up to snuff...
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Peter Beckmann on April 06, 2010, 06:36:10 PM
CWHumphrey wrote on Tue, 06 April 2010 21:50

Wow!

I'm amazed at what this grudge match has morphed into.  

So cool!



Exactly.

Peter
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bigbone on April 06, 2010, 08:03:11 PM

That's nice

All the mix sound good and have the mixer personality in it.

Bravo to all the participant

JN
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on April 06, 2010, 09:53:26 PM
And bravo! to Peter.

Knock-out effort my friend!

And - I agree with every comment.

I know which is mine so I won't pick a favorite.

Nice goin' everyone.

JW
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: danickstr on April 06, 2010, 10:54:06 PM
I am vocals fixated, and the best shaping of the lead vox for me is 13, but the effect isn't great for me - too abrupt of an ending on the echo. 2, 5, 9 have a nice vocal shape, but so dry.  3 has a nice air on  vox, but not enuf comp. 4 has nice comp, but lost some lows.  A few made the vocal too muffled, and a couple others shaped it well - ran it through some nice boxes - but nothing dramatic.  They are all nice treatments of a well-crafted tune.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Steve Hudson on April 06, 2010, 11:22:26 PM
That was fun, first time I'd heard the song. There were a lot of nice approaches. I noticed a few entrants were able to hide the creaky floor under some other business going on while others let it stand out like a creaky floor. Good work, everybody!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Skullsessions on April 07, 2010, 07:13:15 AM
Thanks, Peter for listening to all of that, and your play-by-play.  Lots of work, for sure.  I've listened to all of the mixes as they were posted as well...and the differences were quite a bit more extreme than I had imagined they would be when I was mixing.

My mix was easy to find in the list.  #5.  Drums on the Left.  I pushed the room mic to the right side and brought out the natural decay with a little compression to hopefully add some space to the single sided drum thing.

I've always been a fan of that sort of thing...and it's rare that I get to try it in a mix.  This song sent me that direction from the first listen.

Electric Guitar was hard right with a subtle reverb on the left.  Violin was not quite all the way left with a subtle reverb on the right.  Acoustic tracks - one up the middle, the other hard right.  And, of course, vocals and bass up the middle.

I'm not hearing the low end out of balance as you mentioned...but you're the man with the ears and the gears...so I won't doubt you.  I suppose I might have gotten a little aggressive with the low end on the kick...trying to add a little oomph to it.  I wonder if that's the problem you're hearing?  This is a classic case of trusting your first judgement.  I mixed it one day, listened to it the next, and that's when I started pumping up the drums a bit.

The only thing that I didn't like about the tracking was the upright bass.  I just wish that would have had less bleed in it.  I felt like I could have made it sit better if the track would have been a little more isolated.

I was actually surprised at some of the vocal effects in the mixes.  This one just screamed to be pretty dry to me.  But it's cool to get so many takes from so many different mixers on the same song.

I mixed all ITB, but summed out through a pair of Daking preamps.

I enjoyed the song a lot.  But I'm a sucker for a sad ballad.  Thanks for the exercise...I had a good time with it!

Consider yourselves OVERTAKEN!   Razz
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on April 07, 2010, 08:27:08 AM
My feeble attempt was OTB using only the Wheatstone SP5 EQ...Things happened as follows

- Acoustic gtrs EQ differently to give a tad more space and spread, pair compressed 2:1 with RNC on
- Elec gtr ->
- Fiddle (note: I thought of it as fiddle, not violin - two different beasts, really) <- highs rolled way back
- Drums pulled waaaaaaaay back and limited with another RNC on supernice
- Ambience added with TC M2000 supplementing natural room

Whole mess washed thru Samplitude's Ammunition 2 buss

In retrospect, I hear a lot of things I wish I would have done, and a lot of things I wish I would not have... Confused
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: KB_S1 on April 07, 2010, 08:51:37 AM
I know my mix and agree with Peter's comments fully.
Overall I was very pleased with the result I got as it was done on the first day of trying brand new monitors in my room which has only temporary acoustic treatment.
The room has a long way to go yet.
As have I.

I really enjoyed listening through the other mixes and hearing similarities/differences/approaches throughout.

There were a couple that I enjoyed more than others: 12 and 10 each had things I liked. Drums on 10 were great but not so keen on vocal treatment.


My workflow was pretty simple. About 2.5hrs from open to print. No listen/recall as I had clients from then on.
All ITB PT HD8 - SPL monitor control - Focal BE6 Twins.
TL space reverb (I think a plate - need to check)
Minimal Plug ins.
Polarity flip on vocal as the acst guitar seemed to thin it out.
Tel Ray delay on electric guitar - varying amounts for verse/chorus/solo
Light compression on drums - HH track off - Slight Tape Flange snd/rtn
Sonnox Comp on vocal
SPL transient designer on dbl bass to bring out attack a little.
Mix through (BombFactory) Fairchild 660 with just a hint of GR on peaks.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hallams on April 07, 2010, 08:54:45 AM
  Thanks Peter for putting in the time for the listens and mix comments. I was initially going to go for a drier mix but something in the mood of the song swept me along into a different feel. I will wait for Don's "answer key" on Thursday before giving details of my mix and gear etc, but i'm really enjoying listening to the other mixes. I liked Skulsession's mix with the drums on the left, and have been doing a few similar "extreme panning" things with a project i'm recording at the moment. Reminds me of those early recordings of Stan Getz.
We have some trouble with he internet at the moment so it's proving quite slow to get an uninterrupted listen to the mixes.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Kris on April 07, 2010, 08:59:25 AM
Took one more peek at track 7 and 8.  If I had to make a choice today, I'd go with 8... but I really think mix 7 was a good fit for the song with the bass and drums laid back.  

Track 5 was my third favorite yesterday.  Nice job.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dan-O on April 07, 2010, 09:46:01 AM
Thank you again Peter for the work on this. Great perspective. Mine was #2 (yes you can go ahead and make the joke you know you want to) with the vocal too forward which I defiantly knew. The phase issues I'm still trying to track down.

Anyway, I PM'd Peter to ask for a little more detail on how it was translating in his room other than just the vocal. He'll be getting to me when he can with his notes. I look forward to hearing from him and really can't thank him enough.

Everyone did a fantastic job with this and I'm so glad I took part.

My favortie is #2.....  Laughing

....#8
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: compasspnt on April 07, 2010, 09:59:51 AM
Dan-O wrote on Wed, 07 April 2010 09:46

Mine was #2 (yes you can go ahead and make the joke you know you want to) with the vocal too forward which I defiantly knew.



Wow, you knew it, and you are still defiant about it.

Good on ya.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Skullsessions on April 07, 2010, 10:20:54 AM
Dan-O wrote on Wed, 07 April 2010 08:46

 ... Mine was #2 (yes you can go ahead and make the joke you know you want to)...



LOL...
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on April 07, 2010, 11:59:23 AM
I'll tell you what impressed me the most… though I don't know what if any evidence was used in making his conclusion…

Mine is indeed number 13.

And I was 32 minutes from loading files into Pro Tools to printing.

The extra 2 were a phone call that came just before I took the screenshot of the pre-print  Smile

So mea culpa - I didn't make my goal.

I felt a kind of "Nebraska" treatment was suitable... I also liked the starkness of leaving most of the electric guitar out of the first verse or so.

I thought everyone did great.

JW
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Peter Beckmann on April 07, 2010, 01:44:01 PM
jwhynot wrote on Wed, 07 April 2010 16:59

I don't know what if any evidence was used in making his conclusion…

Mine is indeed number 13.

JW


It was a hunch. I knew you were going to do a very quick mix, which really means balance. As Terry says, level is the only tool in the box really.
So 13 was simple, well balanced and I think it was the slap echo on the voice too, because working quickly means quick solutions: need a vocal treatment? BINGO! slapback now move on...

Incidentally, did you ride the acoustic guitar up and down in between lines of vocal?


I think the answers come out tomorrow, but I have quite a busy day and then I'm off for a week so I might miss the denouement! Hope not.

Thanks everybody. I really enjoyed listening to all the mixes.

Peter
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: ziggy on April 07, 2010, 01:51:09 PM
hi

i think mine is number 9, number 9, number 9

i mixed it on a morning, 3 - 4 hours, did a revision the next day.

mixed on our desk (alice the sik), all eq are desk eq, exception is the voice, which went speck asc - mc77 - desk eq, and bass speck - drawmer dl 251 - desk.

i compressed the whole drumset with a joe meek compressor, one of the early ones, the acoustic guitar with an rnc 1773 and the violin with  another drawmer dl 251. compression was never more than 3 -4 db. i did a little bit of fader-pushing during the solos.

i did not use the room mic, i tried to get my "own" roomsound by using our hallway. speaker was a behringer the truth active monitor, the mic an omni groove tubes-tube mic.

the voice reverb is our plate, a stoctronics rx 4000.


monitoring adam s3a, room designed by wsdg europe  Smile

also, i completely agree with peters points. if anyone has some tips on how to do it better, hit me hehehe.

this was fun!
luc

PS: i thought the hardest thing was the violin, don't know why...
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on April 07, 2010, 02:48:41 PM
Anyone asked the artists which mix they liked?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Dan-O on April 07, 2010, 02:55:14 PM
As I indicated I had PM'd Peter to ask about helping track down the phase problem he mentioned. I also asked if he would comment on how the mix translated in his room. He's offered to allow me to post this here:

Quote:

Hi Dan.

Sorry been very busy here.

Since you pm'd me I thought I'd reply the same. If you want to post into the forum that's fine by me.


Any how, really for me the only real problem is the vocal. I suppose the combination of it being loud in the mix and the eq on it is not very flattering. Also the reverb is quite boxy which accentuates the issue.

Otherwise the rest of the track is nicely balanced, bass isn't too boomy or pokey and is sitting well with the drums.

Cheers

Peter


------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------
Peter Beckmann
Technologyworks
http://www.technologyworks.co.uk




So I get to save a small amount of face  Very Happy

And I'm certain with time Peter will come to realize the brilliance of the mix decisions I made with the vocal.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on April 07, 2010, 02:56:03 PM
Anyone have an issue with me posting the key today?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on April 07, 2010, 03:01:52 PM
bleen wrote on Wed, 07 April 2010 13:56

Anyone have an issue with me posting the key today?



I thought it was in G
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on April 07, 2010, 03:05:24 PM
Wireline wrote on Wed, 07 April 2010 12:01

bleen wrote on Wed, 07 April 2010 13:56

Anyone have an issue with me posting the key today?



I thought it was in G


Rolling Eyes

Oh, Ken....
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rollmottle on April 07, 2010, 03:08:58 PM
Key it up. How come we were waiting until tomorrow in the first place?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on April 07, 2010, 03:09:49 PM
sorry.. Very Happy


It is fine with me.  I've already embarrassed myself aplenty, so one day early won't change anything...
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on April 07, 2010, 03:11:15 PM
Okey dokey. Here's the poop:

1 - wireline
2 - Dan-O
3 - rollmottle
4 - bleen
5 - skullsessions
6 - KB_S1
7 - spindrift
8 - CWH
9 - ziggy
10 - hallams
11 - rankus
12 - fiasco
13 - johnwhynot
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on April 07, 2010, 03:22:30 PM
I concur with Peter's comments.  Purposely under processed and such..bass and drums held back by design (bluegrass influence I guess...)

Also demonstrated what he meant by muffled - lots more work needed here.

Folks, this has been an absolute treat for me, an honest evaluation, and a real humbling experience.  Thanks
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: bleen on April 07, 2010, 03:22:50 PM
My mix (#4) was done in Logic Pro 9 and summed out via SSL converters to a Rascal Audio ToneBuss. I had a Foote Control Systems P3S post-ToneBuss for 2-bus compression.

I used an Overstayer stereo comp on a parallel drum bus and everything else was plugs in Logic. Lots of URS Saturation (each track - first insert, set to 15IPS tape and also used to flip polarity if necessary) and Nomad Factory British NEQ-1272 for EQs. The bass also had a Stillwell Rocket comp to help with the definition. No other channel compression was used (very unusual for me!)

Three mono delays (EchoBoy) panned L, C, & R as short prime number slaps. The electric gtr was panned hard right and fed the L slap along with a 1/4-note delay for some movement. The violin was hard left and fed the R slap. Vocals fed the C delay and a short room verb. The Bvox also hit a hall verb lightly.

The acoustic guitar was split between hard L for the 441 and just left of center for the Mojave; both fed the right slap a bit and the Mojave also went to the room verb. The 441 was -6dB down from the other mic and helped to add some dimension.

I think that's it! I spent less than an hour on the mix as it wasn't crying to be belaboured over.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Skullsessions on April 07, 2010, 03:47:06 PM
I feel I need to be honest about something, and take my flogging like a man.

I used Autotune on the BG vocal.

Sorry...pitch was out just enough in a couple of parts that I felt like I had to do something....
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rollmottle on April 07, 2010, 03:54:35 PM
Number 3 was mine.

I tried to make the mix as "real" as possible. I left the vocal noises at the intro because I thought that seemed more real. In hindsight, I'd probably ditch that.

After listening back and then reading Peter's comments, I wanted to tame the bass a bit more as it pokes out in a couple places. I have a new Compex 2 that I didn't have when I mixed that would have been perfect on the bass. Oh well!

Some of the nitty gritty details for anybody who cares:

My mix was summed out of my Black Lion modified 002 via a Folcrom summing box. Make up gain by a pair of Great River 500 pres into a Foote Control Systems P3S bus comp at 1.3:1 and a db or so of GR. A pair of API 550B's was in that chain doing nothing but adding heft. Monitored on a pair focal CMS 65's.


Bass was compressed ITB with a URS 1970 comp. I EQ'd a little bit of top into the finger plucking region of the bass with a Digi III. "Fixed" some of the timing of some notes, especially in the intro I thought stuck out as sounding "off." That was a challenge given the bleed everywhere, but I felt I got by without negative impact.

Drums were parallel processed with a URS Phat C and then it was all sent out to a Transient Designer where I dialed out a bit of the room. Tried to EQ a bit of of that bass drum up with the URS N12.

Lead vox had a little TL Space plate on it. Heavily EQ'd it in the low mid and added some air with a URS Fultec. Sent out to an RNC in super nice mode.

I doubled the BG vocals. One was delayed with a Massey TD5 and and the other verbed to the plate. Compressed with a URS 1970.

Also doubled the electric guitar. Panned them off each other. Hit one fairly hard with the Massey Tape Head and some TD5 and tucked it under the main one. Some automation throughout the song to poke it in and out.

I thought the violin recording was the most troublesome. A lot of scratchiness in the mids/upper mids. Had to carve that up pretty good. I automated it pretty far down in the mix for most of the song and during the solo section, it got doubled with a compressed room mic that I left out for all of the song except for that part. I thought it sounded pretty nice...sounds strong and natural. I like how the electric solo dishes off to the violin solo.

Finally, the acoustic guits were sent out to a PRO VLA.  

I'm sure I'm missing something. Happy to field questions and if anybody has any thoughts, feel free to let'er rip.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on April 07, 2010, 04:15:32 PM
Fiasco wrote on Tue, 06 April 2010 17:24


I am pretty sure I know mine, and Peter's crits ring true.

First listen, I like #12.


I guess I didn't know mine listening blind, all along I was #12.

I favored my own... what does that say?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on April 07, 2010, 04:22:46 PM
Peter Beckmann wrote on Tue, 06 April 2010 12:52


12.   I like this. Good balance and all the sounds sit together nicely, nice build and the mix is definitely serving the song. Only comment might be the violin solo seems a bit distant.


Peter, you don't know how happy this makes me.
Trust me, I don't live or die by someone's opinion, but I value yours, and it's nice to get positive reinforcement.

I have got a long, long way to go, and this energizes me.

BTW, this song was approximately the sixth entire song I have mixed.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on April 07, 2010, 05:46:35 PM
When I get to the studio this afternoon I'll put up screenshots of what I did…

Believe it or not I spent some time working on the vocal slap - because there is a little cloud of 'verb around it that comes in when the band does and I wanted it to be subtle enough that it was not noticed…
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: CWHumphrey on April 07, 2010, 05:49:48 PM
That was fun.

I can breathe a little easier now.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on April 07, 2010, 05:57:44 PM
CWHumphrey wrote on Wed, 07 April 2010 16:49

That was fun.

I can breathe a little easier now.

Cheers,


Oh, sure...

And I get called out for bad jokes.

You wearing flannel? Shocked
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Hallams on April 07, 2010, 08:07:49 PM
I'ts been a few years now since i've had an A&R man in the studio...yes, mine is #10.
My desk was set up for other work as i was in the middle of mixing a 10 song project, so i mixed ITB using Logic Pro 8 and Logic and free plugins only. The drums had the roughrider comp for paralell compression and i also had the vox on a seperate  bus with roughrider fairly heavily compressing under the uncompressed main vox. Roughrider was used as channel comp on the kick, snare OH, bass and room tracks. I put a slight tremelo on the electric, and had space designer for reverb; Bricasti room - precussion for the drums, just a smidge of large plate for the accoustic & electric guitar and a bit more of it for violin. Two reverbs where on the vox, a logic impulse called shadows and the snare chamber.
  Instead of doing an internal bounce, i recorded the mix back into logic by way of the apogee ensemble converter and through my Avalon 747. I put logic's eq on the stereo outs to shape the energy of the bottom end and used a combo of the 747's eq and comp to get the kick and bass working the way it felt right.
The mix was done on two one hour sessions in the evening with a couple of short visits to the mix in between. I did think after submitting my mix that i should have automated the vox rev in intro in the spots when stood out. I think for the sake of the exercise i will do a remix leaving everything as is but reducing the reverb and go for a drier sound.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on April 07, 2010, 08:58:06 PM
Now I reveal the ineffable secret of my fabulous mix.

No… no secret.

index.php/fa/14616/0/

I know people have issues with Bomb Factory stuff but I find this setup gets me there right quick.  I rang out a bit of low mids on the EQ, then I pushed that 550 range (which is much lower than I usually grab) for projection purposes.  There was something in the texture there I liked so …
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on April 07, 2010, 09:10:45 PM
Those who are crazy enough to really zoom in will also notice that the Room channel has an interesting setup on it…

index.php/fa/14617/0/

I had 1/2 an hour and wanted a bit of glue - and didn't want to kill a horse to get it.

So this is another quick trick I turn to - not that anyone would ever want to emulate what I do…

Anyway - I'll pick a track that has a few sounds in it - a room or overhead or even sometimes a printed rough mix - and smash the living daylights out of it with something.  SansAmp plugin sometimes does the trick…

Then I hide it somewhere in the wayback of the mix - on this mix it comes in, like the reverb on the voice, when the drums start.  I also have a bunch of that EchoPlex model on it.

Listening to it now I don't really hear the effect - but I sure miss it when it's gone.

I like the chaos in the room of this track - I just wanted a bit more and had no time…  I look for chaos whenever things are too organized sonically.  I've done things like hide a bullet mike near the podium on a scoring date - and then later run it through a Korg A3.

Not a good idea to solo that with the director in the room - but man it sure gives a medium-sized ensemble some muscle in the final mix.

A good box for this is a Roland Space Echo - the one with spring reverb in it.  I've on occasion put all the vocals through and blown the living shit out of the input - then put it back in the mix, low enough that you'd never spot it.  Soloed, it sounds like a highschool PA system from way down the hall - very spooky.

Mmmmm chaos.  A healthy alternative to drugs and alcohol.

JW
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jetbase on April 07, 2010, 10:19:27 PM
I just had a chance to listen to mixes. Only on little speakers unfortunately, but I gotta say that I really enjoyed listening to this beautiful song over & over for the past half hour. I love listening to this kind of music, I love even more to be able to work on this kind of music. What a shame I only have time to work on material I get paid for (being a devoted husband & father).

Thank you to all of you non-cynical engineers, no matter what age, for taking time out of your busy schedules to do what you love & for enriching my listening experience of today. And, not that it needs to come from me but, well done!

JW, thanks for sharing those screenshots. I gotta say that I wasn't keen on the echo (my taste), but I otherwise loved the tight vocal sound. I haven't been game to try the Bomb Factory Fairchild plug, but now I'll have to. Interesting to learn of your use of the Sansamp plug on room. Last time I saw that on a PT session the result was horrible (& the client came to me to remix the entire album, lots of thing were wrong), but hearing how it can actually work when done properly has taught me something.

Cheers to all.
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: rollmottle on April 07, 2010, 10:33:20 PM
I really like the idea of the Smash & Tuck™ JW. I'll have to give that a shot on my next mix!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on April 08, 2010, 01:27:52 PM
Please don't let this thread slip - I think the learning here has been the most valuable on PSW in some time...

And it does tend to separate the sheep from the goats, the doers from the talkers, the cattlemen from the hat-acts.

Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on April 08, 2010, 01:36:22 PM
Baaaaaaaaaaa.  Where does that leave me?

JW
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on April 08, 2010, 01:39:56 PM
Over forty and cynical?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: jwhynot on April 08, 2010, 01:42:34 PM
from wiki:

The Cynics rejected all conventions, whether of religion, manners, housing, dress, or decency, advocating the pursuit of virtue in a simple and unmaterialistic lifestyle.

Not me.

I don't reject decency and manners, and I wear clean clothes most days.

JW
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Wireline on April 08, 2010, 01:45:07 PM
You wear clothes?

Wow..who knew?
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on April 08, 2010, 03:35:34 PM
OK, my mix was my favorite (go figure?) but I also liked a lot of the others!

Peter's comments on the mix "telling a story" are very spot on in my mind. I've listened to this track probably 100+ times and I spent a lot of time mixing it. I'm a rank amateur and have a pretty bad listening environment (untreated 20lx20wx10h drywall room) but if I monitor quietly and cross check on my hi-fi at home, some of those bad acoustics issues are negated I hope.

I had the hardest time with the bass, muddy, murky and undefined. I'd be very interested in how some of you tightened up that lowend!

My mix setup was:

Ld Vox, RADAR -> CL1B -> 550A EQ -> A&H ZED-428 -> RADAR
Bass,  RADAR -> 33609JD -> VT X81 EQ -> A&H ZED-428 -> RADAR
Kick,  RADAR -> VT X81 EQ -> A&H ZED-428 -> RADAR
Violin, RADAR -> 550A EQ -> A&H ZED-428 -> RADAR
Acoustic (Mojave) -> RADAR -> Wunder PEQ2R EQ -> A&H ZED-428 -> RADAR
The rest....RADAR -> A&H ZED-428 -> RADAR

Mixed right back to trk 23,24 of the RADAR which makes punch-ins on the mix easy & seamless if you mess up midway.  I didn't use the 441 on acoustic or the room mic.  All OTB.  Some EQ done with the board's channel strips. No 2buss compression.  

I had a ton of fun and it is wonderful to see all the different approaches to this and to learn some new tricks.

Thanks to Don and Peter for all their efforts in making this happen too.

Best to all!
Keith

PS - Peter did a test master of my Heather mix and it really brings it alive!!  Great job Peter!
Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Peter Beckmann on April 08, 2010, 06:32:30 PM
Well thanks everybody that was very cool.
I'm off for a few days in the mountains of Scotland, and I don't know if I'll have any internet access.

I know there's the IMP in J Hall's forum, but this was kinda different. If people want to do it again I'm happy to do the listening.

One thing though.  Nicolas ducked out of the mixing, and one of his lame excuses was he was too busy for the next couple of weeks

Yeah, RIGHT. So busy he's cluttering up the forum some more with his ridiculous threads which he answers almost immediately himself.
I mean, some of you guys mixed this track in the time he spends debating with himself about some meaningless tangential issue.

Its disrespectful, really.
And you know what. Every single one of those mixes is better than his, COS HE NEVER TURNED UP TO THE GIG.
That's the first step in being a professional. BE THERE, DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

Peter


Title: Re: Are there any non-cynical audio engineers over 40???
Post by: Spindrift on April 09, 2010, 03:10:15 PM
Dan Digby submitted a late mix so I posted it up on the site for a listen. Sounds pretty good on just my MacBook Pro speaks.  Thanks Dan.

Keith