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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Brad Blackwood => Topic started by: Vladislavs Korehovs on June 19, 2006, 10:44:45 AM

Title: Loudness Recepies
Post by: Vladislavs Korehovs on June 19, 2006, 10:44:45 AM

i would like everybody to post their recepies for Loudness, please include as much details as possible:

My recepies are (from simplest to more advanced):

(Wavelab)PeakMaster -> EQ -> Puncher -> PeakMaster -> Dither

3 Band Compressor -> Tube saturation (warmth) distortion in middle band mostly -> Sony Oxford Inflator -> Dither (POWr)

3 Band Compressor+Parallel Compression with Waves C1 (in Upward Compression mode)-> Tube saturation (warmth) distortion in middle band mostly-> Sony Oxford Inflator -> Dither (POWr)

Title: Re: Loudness Recepies
Post by: MASSIVE Mastering on June 19, 2006, 02:35:32 PM
1) A really good mix that can handle and has the potential for "hot" levels.

2) Stay out of the way.

Seriously - I can't think of a "recepie" for attaining volume.  Some mixes handle it easily and with style.  Others fall apart with only a slight adjustment.  It depends solely on the potential of the mix and the M.E.'s aptitude to exploit the potential in that particular mix.  

You can chain compressor after maul-the-band compressor and limiter after limiter after cutting and boosting different frequencies and paralleling on one mix - And simply apply a little limiting to the next.  

Are we going to be over this soon...?
Title: Re: Loudness Recepies
Post by: Pingu on June 19, 2006, 02:58:03 PM

Are we going to be over this soon...?

  It dont look good.
Title: Re: Loudness Recepies
Post by: Bob Boyd on June 19, 2006, 10:45:15 PM
The best solution for loudness...

Title: Re: Loudness Recepies
Post by: Ben F on June 19, 2006, 10:46:50 PM
Sorry mate but the "recepie" varies in accordance with the engineers experience and tools.

You should concentrate on sound quality, dynamics, and stereo image first, and lastly loudness. Trying to make a master louder will adversley affect the previous qualities, and that's what you have to listen for, and no chain of plug-ins without experience will save you.

Get the track sounding right first. Use a quality EQ to solve problems and enhance the sound. The mastered version without limiting should be more open and controlled, with the compression adding to the punch and groove of the track, not destroying it.

After this has been achieved, a light amount of limiting is all that should be required, no more than 3dB. Once again, listen, how is the attack of the kick and snare affected? Is the limiting adding harshness? Are there parts of the mix that are overly limited? Do the vocals sound better or worse?

Trust your own ears and judgement.

Title: Re: Loudness Recepies
Post by: Patrik T on June 20, 2006, 07:44:25 AM
Bob Boyd!

DUDE!  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

You made my day!

Best Regards
Title: Re: Loudness Recepies
Post by: lagerfeldt on June 20, 2006, 09:14:41 AM
Bob you're cracking us up
Title: Re: Loudness Recepies
Post by: Viitalahde on June 20, 2006, 01:16:04 PM
Bob Boyd wrote on Tue, 20 June 2006 03:45


Damn, how warm and punchy you would get if you chose "analog 1" from the right and turned it up..!  Shocked
Title: Re: Loudness Recipes
Post by: Thomas W. Bethel on June 20, 2006, 09:47:28 PM
My take on how to get more level my recipe, if you will, is to listen with your ears,

Some material can be made super loud with out half trying some material is as loud as it is going to get and if you try and make it louder it is all going to fall apart. Some material because of the way it was recorded and mixed will be impossible to make super loud it just is what it is.

One problem that I see is that everyone is looking for the "holy grail" the one plug in the one technique the one piece of equipment that will make everything sound the way they think it should sound or in some cases just a whole lot louder.

The HOLY GRAIL OF MASTERING LOUD DOES NOT EXIST and if it did EVERYONE WOULD HAVE ONE so we would have to do what we do now and that is rely on our experience and our ears that have the training to do what needs to be done.

So there is no one recipe for loudness and never will be one.

I see on a lot of the forms....how can I get it really loud....how can I make my stuff Grammy winning....how can I do my own mastering and make it sound like (insert name of current band/artist that everyone is trying to emulate). It is like everyone thinks that there is some magic formula some magic box some magic piece of software that we are all hiding so that we can do something that no one else is able to do.

I use to do Magic and everyone always wanted to know how to do the illusion but if they knew how the illusion was done it would no longer be an illusion. Mastering is NOT the same thing a magic show. There are no tricks, on illusions, no slight of hand. It is just plain hard work and using what God gave you to do what needs to be done.

Now if you want my recipe for Yorkshire Pudding I would be happy to post it.

Title: Re: Loudness Recipes
Post by: cerberus on June 21, 2006, 12:03:19 AM
it may not be magic, but it sure is tricky.

i guess magic often hinges on the operation of one device... but making music louder for me is a series of incremental steps. i use every technique i've ever learned all at once.

things can go wrong, i have run into mixes that could not stand my bending them into the shape i thought they could. fell on my face; last week. it's tricky, maybe more like kung fu than magic, but the mystique is deserved, imo.

one "trick" i learned is to work through a limiter, start with it in, even though it's eventually going to sit near the end of the chain. find out what's the result of straight smashing; then take care of all the other things that get screwed up from smashing. like dynamic range for starters (i like to attempt to recover some of the natural dynamic range by manipulating the dynamics near the noise floor.) and the more obvious stuff.

if you find you aren't making good progress towards any of that, then you could back off on the smashing.  i like this stategy because it gives one an out, a way to avoid a disaster. it's what i didn't do when i fell on my face.


a few of the wump participants seem to be having a bit of fun trying to see if they can slip in a very loud or quiet master and get away with it. for me, a kind of experimentation that wouldn't be so wise to try on real clients. so i'd urge anyone interested in progressing themselves in this general area to participate in wumps, wimps and womps when they happen.

jeff dinces
Title: Re: Loudness Recepies
Post by: Ali Moniack on June 21, 2006, 01:04:34 AM
Even with my own fairly limited understanding of mastering it seems obvious that any adherence to recipes would pointlessly limit your options and seriously risk doing unnecessary things. You'd have to be always mastering your own stuff or something, which can be another recipe for disaster...

Just print "Play Loud" on the back of the sleeve. Use the power of suggestion.
Title: Re: Loudness Recepies
Post by: masterhse on June 21, 2006, 03:07:31 PM
Simple recipe, reduce dynamic range and make up the difference.

How much of the former is up to the generally accepted value for the style of music and tastes.

Is loudness that same thing as volume/level/intensity? I've always thought of loudness as more perception, like the loudness button on some stereo systems, Fletcher-Munson curves, phons, and all of that.
Title: Re: Loudness Recepies
Post by: J.J. Blair on June 21, 2006, 04:27:02 PM
Perceived loudness is for chumps who can't spell "recipes".  

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
Title: Re: Loudness Recepies
Post by: masterhse on June 21, 2006, 06:22:52 PM
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 21 June 2006 16:27

Perceived loudness is for chumps who can't spell "recipes".  

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Maybe he meant to say Reeses pies? If so here is the recipe: