Post by: studiojimi on May 26, 2008, 11:13:08 AM
A medical professional recently shared this email
with a friend in which there is a fascinating story about laminin.
Recently in a sermon,
Louie Giglio was talking about how inconceivably BIG our God is...
how He spoke the universe into being...
how He breathes stars out of His mouth that are huge raging balls of fire...etc. etc.
Then He went on to speak of how this
star-breathing, universe creating God ALSO knitted our human bodies together
with amazing detail and wonder.
At this point I am LOVING it
(fascinating from a medical standpoint, you know.)
...and I was remembering how I was constantly amazed during medical school
as I learned more and more about God's handiwork.
I remember so many times thinking...
'How can ANYONE deny that a Creator did all of this???'
Louie went on to talk about how we can trust that the God who created all this,
also has the power to hold it all together when things seem to be falling apart...
how our loving Creator is also our sustainer.
And what absolutely stunned me was when Giglio started talking about laminin.
I knew about laminin. Here is how Wikipedia describes them
'Laminins are a family of proteins that are an integral part of the structural scaffolding
of basement membranes in almost every animal tissue.'
You see....laminins are what hold us together ...LITERALLY.
They are cell adhesion molecules.
They are what holds one cell of our bodies to the next cell.
Without them, we would literally fall apart. And I knew all this already.
But what I didn't know is what laminin LOOKED LIKE.
But now I do. And I have thought about it a thousand times since (already)....
Here is what the structure of laminin looks like...
AND THIS IS NOT a 'Christian portrayal' of it....
if you look up laminin in any scientific/medical piece of literature,
this is what you will see...
Now tell me that our God is not the coolest!!!
Amazing.
The glue that holds us together....
ALL of us....
is in the shape of the cross.
Immediately Colossians 1:15-17 comes to mind.
'He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
For by him all things were created;
things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible,
whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities;
all things were created by him and for him.
He is before all things,
and in him all things HOLD TOGETHER.'
also interesting to me that the color scheme - even if coincidental
is red (blood/life), blue (faith) and green (new life) metaphysically designated to these colors i've learned from my studies.
Post by: Larrchild on May 26, 2008, 11:27:44 AM
So like, a DNA nucleotide is five-sided.
What do you read into that, Jimi?
Coincidence? I think not!
Post by: studiojimi on May 26, 2008, 11:37:07 AM
| Larrchild wrote on Mon, 26 May 2008 08:27 |
So like, a DNA nucleotide is five-sided. What do you read into that, Jimi? Coincidence? I think not! |
it looks like you've posted a very small hand gun.
Post by: MagnetoSound on May 26, 2008, 02:10:29 PM
I want you to say the first thing that comes into your mind ...."
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 26, 2008, 02:40:46 PM
"Mr. Jones, what do you see?"
"I see two people having sex."
"What about this next one?"
"It's two people having sex."
"OK. And this one?"
"It's two people and they are having sex."
"Mr. Jones, you seem to be thinking an awful lot about sex."
"Well you're the one showing me the dirty pictures."
Post by: Bill_Urick on May 26, 2008, 06:33:09 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Mon, 26 May 2008 11:37 | ||
it looks like you've posted a very small hand gun. |
Silly Jimi, that's a duck.
For those that regard the Duck as a deity, I have
capitalised it in this sentence.
Post by: Berolzheimer on May 26, 2008, 08:40:14 PM
"Well", says the doctor, "I can clearly see your nuts."
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 26, 2008, 10:46:34 PM
| Leto II wrote on Mon, 26 May 2008 17:33 | ||||
Silly Jimi, that's a duck. For those that regard the Duck as a deity, I have capitalised it in this sentence. |
So your new duck god has changed your avatar and your name to Leto II? Hmmmmmm... Sounds like a cult to me.
A man walks into a dentist's office and says, "I think I'm a moth." The dentist replies, "I'd like to help you, but shouldn't you be seeing a psychiatrist?" The man replies, "I am seeing a psychiatrist." The dentist says, "Well then what are you doing here?" The man says, "Your light was on."
Post by: studiojimi on May 28, 2008, 12:38:57 PM
this is no joke.
Post by: Jessica A. Engle on May 28, 2008, 01:04:34 PM
As you can see, under an electron microscope, the bonds can be found in any configuration.
It's a nice bit of imagery to make a point.
Now quit your bickering, or there'll be no recess and extra homework for the lot of you.
J
Post by: PRobb on May 28, 2008, 01:09:43 PM
Post by: PRobb on May 28, 2008, 01:22:48 PM
Post by: studiojimi on May 28, 2008, 01:45:01 PM
the whole point is touchstones...whether real or not
have power to reaffirm consciousness awareness that
we are one with all men
all life
all living things
we are one with The One.
and again...it is a source of bliss for me and countless others.
and not really a joke to me.
Post by: PRobb on May 28, 2008, 02:42:00 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 13:45 |
whatever. the whole point is touchstones...whether real or not have power to reaffirm consciousness awareness that we are one with all men all life all living things we are one with The One. and again...it is a source of bliss for me and countless others. and not really a joke to me. |
Great. So if I look into the sky and think the clouds look like a kitty cat, I can think I have proof that God must be a kitty cat.
Post by: studiojimi on May 28, 2008, 02:59:15 PM
but it's "probb"ably not a bagel
Post by: PRobb on May 28, 2008, 03:48:35 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 14:59 |
you won't believe it but there is a cloud up here right now and it looks like a bagel. but it's "probb"ably not a bagel |
Not if it's over LA it ain't.
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 28, 2008, 03:53:17 PM
Post by: PRobb on May 28, 2008, 04:07:36 PM
Just one, but the lightbulb really has to want to change
Post by: Larrchild on May 28, 2008, 04:47:41 PM
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 28, 2008, 06:08:33 PM
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 28, 2008, 06:12:19 PM
I still see a kitty.
Post by: jetbase on May 28, 2008, 08:15:50 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 29 May 2008 08:12 |
I still see a kitty. |
Well that just reminds me of being in the delivery room a month ago.
I don't wanna go back there.
Post by: maxim on May 28, 2008, 09:01:42 PM
surely, these were created in god's image...
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 28, 2008, 09:16:07 PM
Repeat after me:
People created in God's image. Animals created for Mankind's use and pleasure. People created in God's image. Animals created for Mankind's use and pleasure. People created in God's image. Animals created for Mankind's use and pleasure. People created in God's image. Animals created for Mankind's use and pleasure.
Post by: maxim on May 28, 2008, 09:26:02 PM
Post by: studiojimi on May 28, 2008, 09:35:52 PM
how do we really know where your lil lammy pie has been
i'm scared to find out?
Post by: maxim on May 28, 2008, 10:28:45 PM
Post by: Hallams on May 28, 2008, 10:47:05 PM
| maxim wrote on Thu, 29 May 2008 11:01 |
i thought this thread was about lamingtons surely, these were created in god's image... |
This picture is dam right sacrilegious.......I love lamingtons!
Post by: PRobb on May 28, 2008, 11:01:33 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 18:12 |
I still see a kitty. |
I see a...wait...what's that other word for kitty?
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 28, 2008, 11:22:05 PM
Post by: Bill Mueller on May 29, 2008, 12:04:34 AM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 21:16 |
Max, Repeat after me: People created in God's image. Animals created for Mankind's use and pleasure. People created in God's image. Animals created for Mankind's use and pleasure. People created in God's image. Animals created for Mankind's use and pleasure. People created in God's image. Animals created for Mankind's use and pleasure. |
Sorry Barry,
This is a GRAND conceit. The most grand conceit in all history.
Where it counts, at the DNA level that actually defines living beings (and not the physical traits of how we eat, reproduce, walk or swim) man and mouse are 85-90% IDENTICAL. Not similar, IDENTICAL.
I believe that God created LIFE in his image. Not the fragile and fleeting physical universe we call home. Especially not our gross human form. I mean c'mon man, have you seen Jimi's avatar?
Sorry Jimi, I had to do it.
Best Regards,
Bill
Post by: Larrchild on May 29, 2008, 12:18:27 AM
| Quote: |
man and mouse are 85-90% IDENTICAL |
"Man: Are you a man or a mouse?
Groucho: Put a piece of cheese on the floor and you'll find out."
~Groucho in "A Day at the Races"
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 29, 2008, 12:50:07 AM
I for one then will thank God for the 10-15% difference.
And we have been down this road already.
Post by: maxim on May 29, 2008, 12:54:37 AM
bill,
good point, but, imo, the only fragile and fleeting thing is our perception of the physical universe, aka our psyche
the universe usually takes care of itself...
"I for one then will thank God for the 10-15% difference."
barry,
do you really think that you are happier than a hamster?
Post by: MagnetoSound on May 29, 2008, 05:17:35 AM
| Bill Mueller wrote on Thu, 29 May 2008 05:04 |
I believe that God created LIFE in his image. Not the fragile and fleeting physical universe we call home. Especially not our gross human form. |
Thanks Bill, you got there before me.
Post by: phantom309 on May 29, 2008, 06:32:53 AM
I see.....um.....MONEY.
Post by: Tomas Danko on May 29, 2008, 09:19:30 AM
I think the way we are made is an incredible thing no matter what, though. Life is an amazing thing.
Post by: studiojimi on May 29, 2008, 09:46:42 AM
| Bill Mueller wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 21:04 |
Sorry Barry, This is a GRAND conceit. The most grand conceit in all history. Where it counts, at the DNA level that actually defines living beings (and not the physical traits of how we eat, reproduce, walk or swim) man and mouse are 85-90% IDENTICAL. Not similar, IDENTICAL. I believe that God created LIFE in his image. Not the fragile and fleeting physical universe we call home. Especially not our gross human form. I mean c'mon man, have you seen Jimi's avatar? Sorry Jimi, I had to do it. Best Regards, Bill |
yes bill "sorry"
God doesn't make sorry.
yes bill God created LIFE
I AM one with LIFE.
LIfE EXPRESSES ITSELF IN ME!
and yes bill....YOU too!
so stop seeing yourself as sorry.
breathe life...live, love...see love in all.
you've been commanded to do this.
step up to the plate.
keep your eye on the ball.
mitch miller is dead.
Post by: vegas4ever on May 29, 2008, 12:21:21 PM
Science vs. God
God was sitting in heaven one day when a scientist said to Him, "God, we don't need you anymore. Science has finally figured out a way to create life out of nothing - in other words, we can now do what you did in the beginning."
"Oh, is that so? Tell Me..." replies God.
"Well," says the scientist, "we can take dirt and form it into the likeness of you and breathe life into it, thus creating man."
"Well, that's very interesting...show Me." So the scientist bends down to the earth and starts to mold the soil into the shape of a man.
"No, no, no..." interrupts God, "Get your own dirt."
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 29, 2008, 01:37:42 PM
Post by: p.mento on May 29, 2008, 07:13:34 PM
devil: 'hello mortal, i'm sure you know why you're here so let's not waste any time. let me show you around this place.'
the devil shows him hell: a world that looks like a mixture of compasspoint studios and playboy mansion, endless beaches, endless barbecues, free drinks everywhere...
the atheist is very pleased and adjusts to the situation quickly, getting a straw hat, a hawaii shirt and a drink.
after a few days of wandering around, participating in various parties etc. he walks upon a huge wall. at first he doesn't think too much of it but after a while he starts to really wonder what it is and why it is there. he goes back to the devil and asks him.
devil: 'oh, i didn't have time to show you that part but most people find out about it sooner or later anyway. let's have a look!'
they take a huge ladder, climb to the top of the wall and look on the other side.
there, one can see a world of fire, everything is covered in lava, there's mortals being burnt and tortured constantly by demons, crying out lout in pain, all in all a really horrible sight.
atheist: 'but i don't understand, why didn't i get there? after all i wasn't religious, not even moslem or buddhist or anything but even worse, i was an atheist all my life!'
devil: 'well, this is not for everybody! we provide this service exclusively for christians. they want it that way.'
Post by: maxim on May 29, 2008, 07:55:42 PM
The first hell is very hot and he sees a lot of people burning in fire. The next hell is freezing cold and he sees people shivering and clamoring. In the third hell, he sees people standing in shit up to their waist but they look quite happy. They are smoking, drinking coffee and are chatting with each other. So the priest says to Peter, "I choose the third hell with all the people standing in shit up to their waist."
So Peter admits him to the third hell. He gets a cup of coffee and a cigarette and feels quite comfortable. Suddenly, the loudspeaker comes on:
"Attention. The break is over. It's time to stand on your head now.""
Post by: PRobb on May 29, 2008, 08:26:50 PM
Post by: Berolzheimer on May 29, 2008, 09:31:03 PM
BTW that Lamington looks a lot like the critters that have ended up in my traps over the years. I remember the first time we had them in the house, they turned up shortly before we went to Germany for a while, so I told my friend who was housesitting to look out for them & try to do something. a week or so later Italked to hm on the phone & he said, "well I saw one but I don't think it's a rat; it's kind of cute."
Post by: jetbase on May 29, 2008, 09:35:12 PM
http://www.aussie-info.com/identity/food/lamington.php
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 30, 2008, 12:06:32 AM
So to the first sister he asks, "What is the name of the first man God created?" The nun thinks for a second and says, "Oh! I know! Adam!" "That's right sister," says Peter, "Come on in."
To the second he asks, "And what is the name of the first woman?" Thinking for a moment or two the nun replies "Why, I believe her name was Eve." "Yes that's correct as well. Please enter."
To the Mother Superior he asks, "Well Mother here's your question, 'what did Eve say to Adam when she first saw him?'" Positively stumped by the difficulty of the question, she says "Oh... wow... That's a hard one..."
"Right Mother, come on in."
Post by: Berolzheimer on May 30, 2008, 02:43:51 AM
| jetbase wrote on Thu, 29 May 2008 18:35 |
The Lamington is the cake, not the rodent. If you've never tried one you're missing out. http://www.aussie-info.com/identity/food/lamington.php |
D'Oh! Stupid Americans.
That does look tasty, I love chocolate & coconut togther, but what's "castor sugar"?
Post by: maxim on May 30, 2008, 02:52:24 AM
you don't have to use that exact recipe
basically, they are cubes of sponge cake, the size of a rubik's cube (or 2 pieces stuck together with icing, if you want fancy), rolled in chocolate ganache and dessicated coconut
yum, yum, yum!!!
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 30, 2008, 09:43:01 AM
Post by: Fig on May 30, 2008, 11:39:38 AM
| studiojimi wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 12:45 |
and not really a joke to me. |
Is THAT so!!!???!!!
I thought EVERYthing was a big joke to you.
Someone mark this date!
Jimi finally offers something up that he takes seriously and then wonders why everyone else pokes fun at it.
Show me that other cheek, bro...
<smack!>
I noticed that all the telephone poles here in Chicago are in the shape of the cross, too - I wonder what kind of senseless conclusion I can draw from that?
Too much!
Fig
Post by: CHANCE on May 30, 2008, 12:14:10 PM
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 30, 2008, 01:35:17 PM
Matthew 12:39-40.
Post by: PookyNMR on May 30, 2008, 02:53:32 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 30 May 2008 11:35 |
May I offer a friendly caution to my Christian brothers and sisters |
Sure. Go ahead. You have my permission.
Post by: studiojimi on May 30, 2008, 03:08:55 PM
| Fig wrote on Fri, 30 May 2008 08:39 |
I noticed that all the telephone poles here in Chicago are in the shape of the cross, too - I wonder what kind of senseless conclusion I can draw from that? |
that you are right in the middle of one of the hell holes of the earth.
and you have enough time on your hands to be noticing telephone poles.
i just find it a nice thought to see the cross in one of the molecular symbols of life.
either He came so you can have life and more of it in abundance in your consciousness which will seriously affect your life, your world and your affairs..... or not.
nothing you can joke about or poke at can shake my light and my faith...and i'm not even a hard core christian..i'm a true metaphysician.
i look beyond the appearance of anything to the spiritual truth of the matter for me....but not for you...you'll have to do your own spiritual work.
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 30, 2008, 04:01:56 PM
| PookyNMR wrote on Fri, 30 May 2008 13:53 | ||
Sure. Go ahead. You have my permission. |
Whew! Load off my mind.
I didn't know what I was going to do if you said no.
Post by: PRobb on May 30, 2008, 04:08:38 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Fri, 30 May 2008 15:08 |
[ i just find it a nice thought to see the cross in one of the molecular symbols of life. |
Whether it's there or not.
Post by: vegas4ever on May 30, 2008, 04:31:45 PM
That’s what I’m, Im hard core, I believe, feel, and can clearly prove spiritual wonders, if you cant do the same for what you believe them why do believe in that? I found that 100% of people that critique Christianity do it without having done any type of research, never explore the Who/when/how/why? evermore I find most of the people that critique religion do it out of discomfort, classical Pastor JOE was seen with another women, or stealing the money from church, or doing this and that, or I was raise this way and look what happened… well let me tell the sad true NO other man on this earth will be a true example of Christianity ALL the time, except of course the Savior of this world Jesus. With that said I took a year of my life (actually 8 months to get the conclusion and 6 to try to prove wrong) to find what I believe in, I recommend you do the same. If your going to go toe to toe with Christian believes make sure you know what YOU believe in.
PS: Atheist? Yeah, get in a car wreck and will see if you don’t believe there is a God out there that can help. There is no Atheist in this world just a whole bunch of people that try to deny the truth.
PS2: Did you know that the bible it’s the only Non fiction book in the world never proven wrong by science? Can you do that with your “book of believes”?
I don’t mean to offend anyone with these statements this is purely what I believe, I respect, NOT AGREE, but respect all religions and believes.
God Bless
Latino Heat that’s me
Post by: Jay Kadis on May 30, 2008, 04:53:54 PM
Post by: Fig on May 30, 2008, 04:59:42 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Fri, 30 May 2008 14:08 |
that you are right in the middle of one of the hell holes of the earth. |
Do tell. From whence does this opinion come from? Ever been here? I find it to be paradise - and I'm not alone.
| Quote: |
and you have enough time on your hands to be noticing telephone poles. |
Well, they don't require an electron microscope to notice their shape!
| Quote: |
i just find it a nice thought to see the cross in one of the molecular symbols of life. |
Yup. And DNA spirals are in the shape of serpents -- WTF!?!
| Quote: |
either He came so you can have life and more of it in abundance in your consciousness which will seriously affect your life, your world and your affairs..... or not. |
Oddly, between Him and me - not you and me.
Fig
Post by: studiojimi on May 30, 2008, 05:37:50 PM
| Fig wrote on Fri, 30 May 2008 13:59 |
I find it to be paradise - and I'm not alone. |
enjoy it.
i can't have a snowball fight witcha
i can't be cool with you if you get all personal like you did today
that's not acceptable to me.
and it will always get the appropriate response....
and guess what cheek will be turned?
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 30, 2008, 07:18:52 PM
Post by: studiojimi on May 30, 2008, 07:55:16 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 30 May 2008 16:18 |
Someone turn the air conditioning on. Damn it's hot in here. |
it's those bless-ed laminins again
see how powerful they are?
....negativity rise up hard to challenge it but the light always defeats it.
Post by: PRobb on May 30, 2008, 10:35:22 PM
| vegas4ever wrote on Fri, 30 May 2008 16:31 |
PS: Atheist? Yeah, get in a car wreck and will see if you don’t believe there is a God out there that can help. There is no Atheist in this world just a whole bunch of people that try to deny the truth. |
Hi there- third generation atheist here. I respect anyone who has a different view as long as the respect is returned. I'm really tired of arrogant self righteous assholes who think there is such a thing as THE truth.
| Quote: |
PS2: Did you know that the bible it’s the only Non fiction book in the world never proven wrong by science? Can you do that with your “book of believes”? |
That is absolutely meaningless. It can be neither proved nor disproved. You can't conclusively disprove Lord of the Rings either.
Post by: J-Texas on May 31, 2008, 12:06:03 AM
| Jay Kadis wrote on Fri, 30 May 2008 15:53 |
When did the saloon become the chapel? |
If we could turn the Saloon into music, it would sound like "The Devil Went Down To Georgia".
...wait. The Christian wins in that song.
talk amongst yourselves... I'm verklempt.
Post by: Electric Warrior on May 31, 2008, 07:48:57 AM
| PRobb wrote on Sat, 31 May 2008 04:35 | ||
That is absolutely meaningless. It can be neither proved nor disproved. You can't conclusively disprove Lord of the Rings either. |
Neither can you prove or disprove the existance of the flying spaghetti monster or the pink invisible unicorn. You can hardly prove the non-existance of anything fictional. Not being able to prove something's non-existance is not necessarily an indication for it's existance.
I wouldn't call the bible a non fiction book, btw..
Post by: studiojimi on May 31, 2008, 10:27:42 AM
| Electric Warrior wrote on Sat, 31 May 2008 04:48 |
I wouldn't call the bible a non fiction book, btw.. |
perhaps the Truth of the
B asic
I nstruction
B ringing
L ife
E ternal
is NOT meant for you.
that's cool
maybe in the next life...i hope you like to read and laugh in warmer climates.
why not think of it as "The Cookbook for Life"
you can cook now or be cooked later.
Post by: studiojimi on May 31, 2008, 10:38:26 AM
| PRobb wrote on Fri, 30 May 2008 19:35 |
Hi there- third generation atheist here. I respect anyone who has a different view as long as the respect is returned. I'm really tired of arrogant self righteous assholes who think there is such a thing as THE truth. |
wow man you really do talk like a lawyer
the best defense is a good offense.
perhaps you might wanna take a look at your postiion
you don't agree with someone
so you call them names in a public forum
kinda childish really
who exactly were you throwing the word atones at bro
oh...and by the way... a little Truth you might wanna plant in your subconsciousness
YOU are a a child of God.
YOU are created in His image likeness. (SPIRIT)
HE is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient.
and HE has planted all of that in your heart.
what are you planting?
because what you plant will grow because of the above power you have within.
Let your light shine man. "Before men"
Love one another.
"think on these things."
(just a suggestion counselor)
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 31, 2008, 11:52:16 AM
Post by: studiojimi on May 31, 2008, 12:20:15 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Sat, 31 May 2008 08:52 |
Kids we've been down this road so many times even the ruts have ruts. Let's say something new or move on. |
barry it's daily maintainance for me and some others to affirm and re-affirm
i require this.
Post by: Jay Kadis on May 31, 2008, 12:26:02 PM
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 31, 2008, 12:38:57 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Sat, 31 May 2008 11:20 | ||
barry it's daily maintainance for me and some others to affirm and re-affirm i require this. |
Okey dokey.
Post by: CHANCE on May 31, 2008, 08:47:56 PM
Back to the discussion with my non believing friend. I told him "of the great fun filled life I have had (and am having), and when I check out, I KNOW where I am going. If I was wrong in my beliefs, what have I lost? Nothing! I still had a great life"
His reply was "We turn into worm food when we die nothing more". I again told him "Now,, If I am wrong, I have lost nothing. If I am right,, Look what YOU lose! Eternal life is a long time. His reply was "WOW" I never heard it put that way before.
Post by: studiojimi on May 31, 2008, 09:19:42 PM
| CHANCE wrote on Sat, 31 May 2008 17:47 |
I recently had a cool discussion with a non believer. We shared our life styles and they are quite similar. I am convinced that Christianity is NOT a religion. Christianity is a relationship with God. I know many who say they're Christian, but there is no evidence of it in their life. Back to the discussion with my non believing friend. I told him "of the great fun filled life I have had (and am having), and when I check out, I KNOW where I am going. If I was wrong in my beliefs, what have I lost? Nothing! I still had a great life" His reply was "We turn into worm food when we die nothing more". I again told him "Now,, If I am wrong, I have lost nothing. If I am right,, Look what YOU lose! Eternal life is a long time. His reply was "WOW" I never heard it put that way before. |
A BIG FAT FOUREYED AMEN!
Post by: vegas4ever on May 31, 2008, 09:57:30 PM
| PRobb wrote on Fri, 30 May 2008 21:35 | ||||
Hi there- third generation atheist here. I respect anyone who has a different view as long as the respect is returned. I'm really tired of arrogant self righteous assholes who think there is such a thing as THE truth. Did you read my post? the whole thing, or just the words after atheist? by you saying "third generation" you shot yourself in the foot, here its a word of advice, go back read my post and them ask yourself, Do I know what I believe or don't believe? or I just have the same believes as my family?
That is absolutely meaningless. It can be neither proved nor disproved. Are you kidding, there is a tool something call "GOOGLE" try it! they are millions upon millions of studies proving the bible is scientific truth, all the dates, events, coincide and are coherent. You can't conclusively disprove Lord of the Rings either. MAYBE your family told you that, but if you go to a library (building with books inside), you will find that LOTR its in the fiction category and the BIBLE is in the NON-FICTION, more over there was no prove ever of a "middle earth" existing. Do the research if you want I can help (not being sarcastic at all) I have some books left from my research let me know... |
Post by: studiojimi on May 31, 2008, 10:14:16 PM
my position remains
let those who have eyes see
let those who have ears hear
it is necessary to own it if you have it and want to keep it.
ya gotta put oil in the ol' engine
i will continue to state...God is my healer, restorer, sustainer,
my supply...my ALL in ALL. and because i state that so elequently to the Universe...the Universe....mother/father GOD continues to bless me and nurture and protect me.
i am happy beyond expression and it shows in my music, my life and ALL my affairs whether anyone in here thinks they see that or not. i've tapped into something that defies science or books or reason....spirit...God....eternal....breath of life....amen.
is it as necessary to those who don't want it to rebuke it
if so in the name of who and what?
dylan sang the old blues..."your gonna have to serve somebody"
ok then...who will you serve?
Post by: Barry Hufker on May 31, 2008, 10:24:17 PM
I'll serve anyone in formal attire, as long as she's attractive and orders off the menu. Unless it's not my table, then screw it.
Post by: malice on June 01, 2008, 02:38:57 AM
| CHANCE wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 02:47 |
Back to the discussion with my non believing friend. I told him "of the great fun filled life I have had (and am having), and when I check out, I KNOW where I am going. If I was wrong in my beliefs, what have I lost? Nothing! I still had a great life" His reply was "We turn into worm food when we die nothing more". I again told him "Now,, If I am wrong, I have lost nothing. If I am right,, Look what YOU lose! Eternal life is a long time. His reply was "WOW" I never heard it put that way before. |
Someone made the exact same "bet" in 1670, his name was Blaise Pascal.
One of the many flaws of this is that, doing this, you are trying to convince your friend to embrace christianity out of fear of losing eternal life wich is not, imho, a noble enough faith.
That this mean that a good man that doesn't have faith in God (or practice another religion) goes straight to hell ?
malice
Post by: studiojimi on June 01, 2008, 10:50:12 AM
| malice wrote on Sat, 31 May 2008 23:38 |
One of the many flaws of this is that, doing this, you are trying to convince your friend to embrace christianity out of fear of losing eternal life wich is not, imho, a noble enough faith. That this mean that a good man that doesn't have faith in God (or practice another religion) goes straight to hell ? malice |
perhaps eternal life is not a good thing for you.....
you have options...
some of us just share information
understand what you can and go within to find the ultimate
answers which eternally live inside of you
i support your right of free choice.
who would want to deny you what God has given you?!
Post by: malice on June 01, 2008, 11:06:47 AM
| studiojimi wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 16:50 | ||
perhaps eternal life is not a good thing for you..... |
Perhaps not, perhaps it is not meant for you either. I think God is the only judge about my or your eternal life anyway, it would be extraordinary presomptuous to decide about this by ourselves, don't you think ?
| Quote: |
you have options... |
I certainly hope so
| Quote: |
some of us just share information |
And that is exactly wht I'm doing. You have read Blaise Pascal ?
| Quote: |
understand what you can and go within to find the ultimate answers which eternally live inside of you |
What I'm doing right now.
| Quote: |
i support your right of free choice. |
That is awfully nice of you.
| Quote: |
who would want to deny you what God has given you?! |
Not you, I suppose
So tell me : A good man that is not a believer goes to hell ?
Or does a not so nice man (like some sorta sinner that repents on last minute before dying) has more chance to go to heaven than, hmmm, let's say
Gandhi ?
malice
Post by: studiojimi on June 01, 2008, 11:35:37 AM
if you'll shut-up long enough.
happy seeking!
Post by: malice on June 01, 2008, 12:24:56 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 17:35 |
you can find all the answers you seek for you in the silence of your being..... if you'll shut-up long enough. happy seeking! |
hmmmm,
I see,
I thought you wanted to discuss theology. I wasn't even addressing to you in the first place, I responded to another poster. Then only you addressed me.
All I can see now is vacuity, cheap insults, ovious baiting and someone that doesn't live by his own words when he speaks about God.
I had no doubt you wouldn't respond to my legit questions anyway. You don't have what it takes. All you do is provoking, beeliteling, and hide your behaviour behind your faith when you are short on better arguments.
Faith has nothing to do with comfort, Jimi.
You should know about that.
You can trick us, you can trick yourself, but you can't trick ...
You know Who I'm talking about, don't you ?
malice
Post by: studiojimi on June 01, 2008, 01:06:28 PM
you are not listening . . . . .
Post by: CHANCE on June 01, 2008, 01:31:45 PM
| malice wrote on Sat, 31 May 2008 23:38 |
One of the many flaws of this is that, doing this, you are trying to convince your friend to embrace christianity out of fear of losing eternal life wich is not, imho, a noble enough faith. |
Nothing could be further from the truth. Many years ago people tried to convince me to embrace Christianity, but it only drove me further away. It doesn't work like that. When I was speaking to my friend, I was only sharing my retirment plan after I check out, and it's free for the asking
Post by: danickstr on June 01, 2008, 02:15:52 PM
Post by: malice on June 01, 2008, 02:27:08 PM
| CHANCE wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 19:31 | ||
Nothing could be further from the truth. Many years ago people tried to convince me to embrace Christianity, |
same her
| Quote: |
but it only drove me further away. |
Up to there, we're on the same page, believe me....
| Quote: |
It doesn't work like that. |
My point, really
| Quote: |
When I was speaking to my friend, I was only sharing my retirment plan after I check out, and it's free for the asking |
Don't get me wrong, I was merely bringing some french philosophy into the discussion as I found it relevant to your remark, I don't feel like I'm totally in disagreement here.
That said, again, lemme ask you guys :
| Quote: |
A good man that is not a believer goes to hell ? Or does a not so nice man (like some sorta sinner that repents on last minute before dying) has more chance to go to heaven than, hmmm, let's say Gandhi ? |
Simple question, really
malice
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 01, 2008, 02:56:40 PM
And we can't say who are the ones who go to Heaven. We can only say "The Good News", which is there is a guaranteed means of reaching Heaven. This is faith in the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ. When that faith comes in life doesn't matter as long as it comes through true repentance of personal sin.
As Chance said, this isn't religion. This is about a personal relationship with God. Do you let strangers into your house when you have no idea who they are or why they are there? Do you let them use your house as your family does? Well, that's God too.
God says, in essence "come to my house. I'd like to get to know you and have you get to know me." But then someone says, "I don't know who is speaking. There is no such person and there is no such address". How then can you have a relationship with him?
Two cars are traveling to the same city. Car A's driver starts out by asking for directions. Told about the city, the driver is also told there is only one road in and out of the city. It is the highway. So Car A starts out taking the highway. Car B's driver barely believes there is a city and doesn't believe there is a highway, so he takes an endless number of side roads in the hope of ending up someplace, maybe at the city. While doing so Car B gets stuck in the mud, gets a flat tire, picks up nicks in the paint and has bugs splattered all over the windshield. Car B has essentially wandered aimlessly almost the entire trip.
In the meantime, Car A has gone up and down hills, through tunnels, through short detours but now can see the city on the horizon. Car B has just about given up hope of arriving anywhere. The car is beaten, broken and all but out of gas. Seeing someone on the roadside, Car B's driver asks for directions. The person says to Car B's driver, there is a city nearby. There you will find all the help you need and everything you want, but you have to take the highway. Finally realizing there is no other way and at last receiving clear directions, Car B, on its last wheels and almost completely on empty takes the highway and finds the city. In the meantime, Car A and its passengers have been in the city for days enjoying all the sites and attractions.
While one driver set out immediately for the city at the beginning and the other driver didn't, don't both drivers get to enter the city if they both took the highway? And does it matter when they took the highway if they both got to the city?
So isn't the same true for the person who accepted salvation early in life and for the one who accepted salvation on his deathbed?
Post by: CHANCE on June 01, 2008, 04:47:07 PM
An example of last resort is the thief on the cross.
I only wish I had found this earlier in life. I missed out on so many more blessings.
Post by: PRobb on June 01, 2008, 07:50:11 PM
| vegas4ever wrote on Sat, 31 May 2008 21:57 |
Are you kidding, there is a tool something call "GOOGLE" try it! they are millions upon millions of studies proving the bible is scientific truth, all the dates, events, coincide and are coherent. |
I have no idea what you're talking about. Garden of Eden? Life created in its current form 6,000 years ago? Noah's flood? Moses parting the red sea?
| Quote: |
MAYBE your family told you that, but if you go to a library (building with books inside), you will find that LOTR its in the fiction category and the BIBLE is in the NON-FICTION, more over there was no prove ever of a "middle earth" existing. Do the research if you want I can help (not being sarcastic at all) I have some books left from my research let me know... |
I didn't say you could prove middle earth existed, I said you can't conclusively prove it didn't.
Post by: PRobb on June 01, 2008, 07:52:21 PM
| CHANCE wrote on Sat, 31 May 2008 20:47 |
I recently had a cool discussion with a non believer. We shared our life styles and they are quite similar. I am convinced that Christianity is NOT a religion. Christianity is a relationship with God. I know many who say they're Christian, but there is no evidence of it in their life. Back to the discussion with my non believing friend. I told him "of the great fun filled life I have had (and am having), and when I check out, I KNOW where I am going. If I was wrong in my beliefs, what have I lost? Nothing! I still had a great life" His reply was "We turn into worm food when we die nothing more". I again told him "Now,, If I am wrong, I have lost nothing. If I am right,, Look what YOU lose! Eternal life is a long time. His reply was "WOW" I never heard it put that way before. |
That argument doesn't really work. What if you're wrong about Allah? Or Buddha? Or Odin? What if Judaism is right and God is annoyed that it got sidetracked?
Post by: maxim on June 01, 2008, 08:13:25 PM
mahatma gandhi was christ-like, benito mussolini was christian
which one gets to "heaven" first?
Post by: Andy Peters on June 01, 2008, 08:31:32 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 18:16 |
Max, Repeat after me: People created in God's image. |
As Frank Zappa once said, "if we are made in God's image, then God must be dumb all over, and a little ugly on the side as well."
Anyways, it's obvious that God was created in man's image.
-a
Post by: malice on June 01, 2008, 08:43:44 PM
| maxim wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 02:13 |
there's a BIG DIFFERENCE between being christian and being christ-like mahatma gandhi was christ-like, benito mussolini was christian which one gets to "heaven" first? |
Thanx for helping me here, brotha
I still have hopes to get a clear answer
malice
Post by: studiojimi on June 01, 2008, 08:52:19 PM
if you can get still enough and open enough to receive them
you won't get my answers but you will get the ones that are right for you
which is why i say shhhhhhh
Post by: jetbase on June 01, 2008, 09:11:30 PM
| malice wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 10:43 | ||
Thanx for helping me here, brotha I still have hopes to get a clear answer malice |
You don't go to hell for doing something bad, you don't go to heaven for doing something good. Regardless of who you are or what you have done, God's grace is enough to "get you to heaven". I'm not 100% sure, but I think it is a separate issue that we are all responsible for our actions in life. Our actions are, however, an indication of where our heart lies.
You want to know if Mahatma Ghandi went to heaven (from the "christian" viewpoint)? I think you would need to prove whether or not he loved & accepted Jesus at his core, regardless of whether or not his "theology" was accurate (again, from the "christian" viewpoint). How do you do that?
Post by: studiojimi on June 01, 2008, 09:16:45 PM
| jetbase wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 18:11 |
You want to know if Mahatma Ghandi went to heaven (from the "christian" viewpoint)? I think you would need to prove whether or not he loved & accepted Jesus at his core, regardless of whether or not his "theology" was accurate (again, from the "christian" viewpoint). How do you do that? |
i'd have to say the "nature of Christ Jesus" from the core of his being.
which can transcend the picture of a man or the man who walked and healed the miracled.
and even then
jesus the man would be setting the example
saying:
"i must be about my Father's business"
i would say ghandi, me and malice and the rest of you have the journey to find what that means for each of us as individuals.
the thing we are talking about is a personal relationship with the Christ.
it's a take it or leave it thing.
i can't have malice's and he can't have mine
i can't have bill mueller's experience
he can't have mine.
i wouldn't want their's.....that would be covetousness
that's a mistake to covet.
i'm very happy with mine and understand that to keep it is to give it away freely as a take it or leave it testimony
the lamb? or the laminim?
Post by: maxim on June 01, 2008, 09:28:06 PM
i can't imagine that gandhi would have any issues with christ, just as i'm sure christ would have no problems with gandhi
what differentiates them from mussolini and bush, is that they truly UNDERSTOOD what they' were talking about
FAITH or UNDERSTANDING
you can't have both...
Post by: Fox on June 01, 2008, 09:29:17 PM
Post by: PRobb on June 01, 2008, 09:34:42 PM
| Fox wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 21:29 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFGrQMD6Uqc |
The devil welcoming the crowd to hell. Brilliant.
I posted it about 4 pages ago.
Post by: PRobb on June 01, 2008, 09:38:35 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 21:16 |
the lamb? or the laminim? |
You get that that is a diagrammatic representation, right?
I still think the actual picture looks like a guy jerking off.
Post by: jetbase on June 01, 2008, 09:41:58 PM
| maxim wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 11:28 |
FAITH or UNDERSTANDING you can't have both... |
Now that I most definitely disagree with! You can certainly have one without the other, but you can certainly have both, e.g. Jesus.
Post by: Fox on June 01, 2008, 09:44:02 PM
| PRobb wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 21:34 | ||
The devil welcoming the crowd to hell. Brilliant. I posted it about 4 pages ago. |
whoops... how'd I miss that?
Post by: studiojimi on June 01, 2008, 10:38:23 PM
| jetbase wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 18:41 | ||
Now that I most definitely disagree with! You can certainly have one without the other, but you can certainly have both, e.g. Jesus. |
faith and understanding are but a beginning of the list of faculty spiritual gifts
love, imagination, wisdom, life, elimination, zeal, strength...
there are a bunch
and we all have them
whether we choose to realize them with our real eyes- our spiritual eyes in any given moment is up to us individually
Post by: maxim on June 02, 2008, 12:00:50 AM
even then you have the option to remain skeptical...
Post by: studiojimi on June 02, 2008, 12:17:47 AM
| maxim wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 21:00 |
you only need to believe if you don't understand even then you have the option to remain skeptical... |
do you mean to say "I" or "you"
is it you that has the option or me?
Post by: Andy Peters on June 02, 2008, 12:44:09 AM
| jetbase wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 18:11 |
You don't go to hell for doing something bad, you don't go to heaven for doing something good. Regardless of who you are or what you have done, God's grace is enough to "get you to heaven". I'm not 100% sure, but I think it is a separate issue that we are all responsible for our actions in life. Our actions are, however, an indication of where our heart lies. You want to know if Mahatma Ghandi went to heaven (from the "christian" viewpoint)? I think you would need to prove whether or not he loved & accepted Jesus at his core, regardless of whether or not his "theology" was accurate (again, from the "christian" viewpoint). How do you do that? |
So, in other words, an obvious living symbol of peace, forgiveness and kindness such as Gandhi won't get to "heaven" because he doesn't submit to Christ.
But an obvious living symbol of hate, intolerance and evil such as Jerry Falwell gets to go to "heaven" because he said the magic words?
See, that's what's just so WRONG about Christianity. In a fucking nutshell.
-a
Post by: jetbase on June 02, 2008, 02:32:33 AM
| Andy Peters wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 14:44 | ||
So, in other words, an obvious living symbol of peace, forgiveness and kindness such as Gandhi won't get to "heaven" because he doesn't submit to Christ. But an obvious living symbol of hate, intolerance and evil such as Jerry Falwell gets to go to "heaven" because he said the magic words? See, that's what's just so WRONG about Christianity. In a fucking nutshell. -a |
Maxim called Ghandi "christ-like" in an earlier post. That description doesn't sound to me like someone who has rejected christ, even if they don't call themselves a christian, nor does the description of someone who is a "living symbol of peace, forgiveness & kindness". In regards to Ghandi I can only talk hypothetically - I don't know what he thought about Jesus & I don't know how God judges him.
Likewise, someone who is a "symbol of hate, intolerance & evil" is obviously no friend of God (I have no idea who Jerry Falwell is though).
There is plenty wrong with christianity. At it's worst it has nothing to do with God. But there are plenty of christians with the best qualities of Ghandi too (or, more accurately, of Jesus). I wish there were different terms to define them.
Anyway, the point of my previous post was not to say "these people get in & these people don't", but to say that God's grace makes it near impossible for even the most educated theological scholar to judge. The more I learn about it the more I get the impression that, without letting anybody off the hook, God is more generous than most people would expect.
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 02, 2008, 03:19:11 AM
God's salvation is a GIFT. It is offered to ALL. All you have to do is believe there is a gift (whole-heartedly) and accept it with humility and faith. There is NOTHING special about a Christian except we believed there is a gift and accepted it. That's it. That's all there is to it. No more. No less. Can't say what anyone else has done.
EDIT: Jetbase, you can't go through life not knowing who Jerry Fallwell is/was/is. A major ass and one of the most repressive Republican conservatives. But you have to read it all for yourself. This guy was a MAJOR player in U.S. politics and has had an international effect. I for one am glad he's gone to meet God. I'm sure there is much to talk about.
Post by: MagnetoSound on June 02, 2008, 05:50:51 AM
While I am not a religious person myself, I have my own concept of God, and the thing that jumps out at me is that we pay very little attention to what the word itself actually means to us.
Ask any class of primary school children what they think the word 'God' means, and most of them will describe a man in a long white robe, with a long white beard, who created everything and lives up in the sky looking down on everyone. Strangely, this concept rarely seems to be challenged openly in adult life and it seems quite possible that the residue of this image actually persists for many.
| Andy Peters wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 01:31 |
As Frank Zappa once said, "if we are made in God's image, then God must be dumb all over, and a little ugly on the side as well." Anyways, it's obvious that God was created in man's image. |
I like this, so I've quoted it.
But it represents only my reaction to the Christian God, and the various deities of other religions, that are seen as an external power and judiciary, to whom 'His' followers must be subservient and obsequious.
As far as I am concerned, 'God', if it exists, is not a being, nor an external authority. Neither is it a 'He', and should NOT be expressed as such. It is more like an approach or an attitude. An extension of kindliness to fellow sentient beings, and a recognition of that spirit in all beings, whatever species they may be. It is NOT judgemental.
I feel as though it is with me some days, and some days it is not. I can best define it for myself as 'the force for good'.
As nature, and life itself, exhibits chaotic characteristics whilst being subject to genetic order, so the forces of good, evil and indifference flow through all of us all of the time and are each constantly exerting their influence over our conscious and unconscious minds whether we like it or not.
I hold these beliefs without embracing any form of organized religion whatsoever - in part because I have found that religion is susceptible to state manipulation, which tends to divide and separate peoples according to national and political interests which, in turn, invariably leads to war and oppression - and in part because any religion, by definition, believes that it must propagate itself by indoctrination in order to undermine individual freedom of thought and collective spiritual development.
As far as I am concerned, this is not good.
The idea that some people are more worthy of consideration than others, due to their adherence to a particular doctrine or scripture is, to me, blasphemous and obscene.
Moreover, the idea of 'God' as some kind of a judge, deciding who is and who isn't deserving of a pleasant afterlife, is utterly preposterous to me and is plainly rooted in the concept of manipulation by fear.
Of course, this is just me expressing my opinion. I am not trying to convert anybody, nor do I necessarily expect anyone else to share my views, but I am entitled to say it.
Dan
Post by: malice on June 02, 2008, 06:37:05 AM
| MagnetoSound wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 11:50 |
Moreover, the idea of 'God' as some kind of a judge, deciding who is and who isn't deserving of a pleasant afterlife, is utterly preposterous to me and is plainly rooted in the concept of manipulation by fear. |
Great post Dan, I quoted my favorite part, but I like the rest just as much.
malice
Post by: PRobb on June 02, 2008, 10:07:35 AM
The pre-Christian Jewish scholar Rabbi Hillel said "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary". That sounds good to me.
Post by: Jay Kadis on June 02, 2008, 10:19:05 AM
| PRobb wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 07:07 |
My views are pretty close to Dan's, although I don't see the need for a supernatural force. "Heaven" and "hell" are conditions we create for ourselves through our actions. Nice people get to live in a world full of nice people. Nasty judgmental people live in a world full of nasty judgmental people. The pre-Christian Jewish scholar Rabbi Hillel said "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary". That sounds good to me. |
Post by: mgod on June 02, 2008, 10:28:18 AM
| Larrchild wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 21:18 |
"Man: Are you a man or a mouse? Groucho: Put a piece of cheese on the floor and you'll find out." ~Groucho in "A Day at the Races" |
If Groucho said it, I believe it. End of discussion.
DS
Post by: mgod on June 02, 2008, 10:39:34 AM
| studiojimi wrote on Mon, 26 May 2008 08:13 |
Looks like a sword, the Roman implement of death and domination.
Phil Dick was right - the empire never ended.
DS
Post by: MagnetoSound on June 02, 2008, 10:40:12 AM
| PRobb wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 15:07 |
My views are pretty close to Dan's, although I don't see the need for a supernatural force. |
I didn't mention a supernatural force. Just a natural one.
I don't sense any disagreement so far.
Post by: mgod on June 02, 2008, 10:43:34 AM
| vegas4ever wrote on Fri, 30 May 2008 13:31 |
A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in the New Testament[2] and interpreted by Christians to have been prophesied in the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament |
Actually, a Christian is a Jew. The proof is in Mark 12:29. ANY other interpretation is false and an attempt to discard what Jesus meant us to know. This is fact.
OK kids, have at it!
DS
Post by: mgod on June 02, 2008, 10:48:11 AM
| Jay Kadis wrote on Sat, 31 May 2008 09:26 |
Electron micrographs do not necessarily show the actual 3-dimensional shape of molecules in aqueous solution. In order for tissue to be imaged it must be fixed and chemically prepared. Since the internal bonding is altered, we get only an approximate idea of how the molecule looks in a living cell. |
In others words for the molecule to actually resemble Jimi's cross, it has to be dead.
DS
Post by: mgod on June 02, 2008, 10:53:35 AM
Post by: PRobb on June 02, 2008, 11:02:35 AM
| mgod wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 10:53 |
No Message Body |
But the body that doesn't exist is in the shape of a cross.
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 02, 2008, 11:08:59 AM
Everyone must work out his life/afterlife with seriousness and good will. It's great so many here lead an introspective life.
Post by: PookyNMR on June 02, 2008, 11:27:12 AM
| mgod wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 08:43 |
Actually, a Christian is a Jew. The proof is in Mark 12:29. ANY other interpretation is false and an attempt to discard what Jesus meant us to know. This is fact. OK kids, have at it! |
Jesus quoting the Shema. Nice.
You're right. Christ is the fulfillment of Judaism, where all nations are able to be included in the family of God. Jesus was a Jew. So were all his disciples.
But to say that a Christian is a Jew is not correct - especially so if you're a Gnostic 'Christian,' whom are decidedly very anti-Jewish. Mainline orthodox Christians have a lot in common with Jews for sure, but there are a few key differences that distinguish the two.
But I would agree with the point, that one cannot be a Christian and reject the Jewish foundation and the Jewish story.
Post by: studiojimi on June 02, 2008, 11:36:44 AM
| MagnetoSound wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 02:50 |
Of course, this is just me expressing my opinion. I am not trying to convert anybody, nor do I necessarily expect anyone else to share my views, but I am entitled to say it. Dan |
i totally agree.
and i am focused on being that way in my expressions
even though it appears many here make presumtions regarding what they read into rather than allow me to simply state and express my testimony, affirmations and expressions.
nothing can tie me down from doing that.
Post by: Fig on June 02, 2008, 11:37:18 AM
| studiojimi wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 10:35 |
if you'll shut-up long enough. |
Back atcha
Post by: studiojimi on June 02, 2008, 11:43:52 AM
| mgod wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 07:43 | ||
Actually, a Christian is a Jew. The proof is in Mark 12:29. ANY other interpretation is false and an attempt to discard what Jesus meant us to know. This is fact. OK kids, have at it! DS |
ahhhh
that cleared it all up for me
no wonder i'm so obnoxious.
Post by: tom eaton on June 02, 2008, 12:35:39 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 11:43 | ||||
ahhhh that cleared it all up for me no wonder i'm so obnoxious. |
Now, I don't know how to read that post without seeing it as anti-semitic. Just my own window on the world, I guess. As an atheist with a Jewish son.
tom
Post by: MDM, on June 02, 2008, 12:52:33 PM
Post by: studiojimi on June 02, 2008, 01:18:19 PM
| tom eaton wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 09:35 |
Now, I don't know how to read that post without seeing it as anti-semitic. Just my own window on the world, I guess. As an atheist with a Jewish son. tom |
tom....spritually my brother.
you
can have as far as you can see.
this is the Truth as God revealed it to Abraham.
you are a decendant of Abe
me too.
so the only question in Truth that you need to ask yourself
is
"how far am i willing to look?"
Post by: CHANCE on June 02, 2008, 01:30:17 PM
Post by: Andy Peters on June 02, 2008, 02:13:54 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 08:43 | ||||
ahhhh that cleared it all up for me no wonder i'm so obnoxious. |
I read that the same was that Tom did ...
Thanks for showing, yet again, the anti-semitism that bubbles under the evangelical Xtianity.
Consider why Xtians want Jews around: to rebuild the temple and hasten Christ's return. At which time, the Jews will be discarded because there is no longer any need to have them around.
Lovely theology, mate.
-a
Post by: Andy Peters on June 02, 2008, 02:15:12 PM
| mgod wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 07:48 | ||
In others words for the molecule to actually resemble Jimi's cross, it has to be dead. DS |
This whole conversation is rather silly, because obviously Jimi doesn't think that science is real or has any value.
-a
Post by: Andy Peters on June 02, 2008, 02:17:18 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 00:19 |
As I said earlier, Christians can't say who is in heaven or not. Only God knows everyone's mind and heart. God's salvation is a GIFT. It is offered to ALL. All you have to do is believe there is a gift (whole-heartedly) and accept it with humility and faith. There is NOTHING special about a Christian except we believed there is a gift and accepted it. That's it. That's all there is to it. No more. No less. Can't say what anyone else has done. EDIT: Jetbase, you can't go through life not knowing who Jerry Fallwell is/was/is. A major ass and one of the most repressive Republican conservatives. But you have to read it all for yourself. This guy was a MAJOR player in U.S. politics and has had an international effect. I for one am glad he's gone to meet God. I'm sure there is much to talk about. |
Hopefully he found that his God is of the Old Testament smiting type.
if I believed in Hell, I'd guess that jerry's being roasted on Satan's spit.
As it is, he's merely giving some worms a mighty case of indigestions.
-a
Post by: PookyNMR on June 02, 2008, 02:28:16 PM
| Andy Peters wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 12:17 |
Hopefully he found that his God is of the Old Testament smiting type. |
Have you read the OT?
Post by: studiojimi on June 02, 2008, 02:34:39 PM
| Andy Peters wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 11:15 | ||||
This whole conversation is rather silly, because obviously Jimi doesn't think that science is real or has any value. -a |
you will be much more in tune with this discussion if you tell us what you think and instead of telling the thread what i think
only I can do that ...please...a little respect.
Post by: PRobb on June 02, 2008, 04:03:07 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 14:34 | ||||||
you will be much more in tune with this discussion if you tell us what you think and instead of telling the thread what i think only I can do that ...please...a little respect. |
Well, to be fair, this thread did start with you claim that the way a textbook diagrammed an organic molecule was "scientific" proof of God's existence.
Post by: mgod on June 02, 2008, 05:12:34 PM
But since everybody is a Jew, its all in the mishpacha.
The idea that christianty is somehow the fulfillment of Judaism is a delusion that has been taught by those who sought and still seek to reinterpret the life of Yesua for 2 millenia, but it completely ignores the meaning of "Israel" - "he who struggles with god". Everybody is a Jew, even if they fancy themselves to be somehow the legitimate heirs of judaism. Islam has the same conviction as Nathan. However, its just another way of creating a religion in order to divide, and division is always done for power's sake. ("How can we be in, if there is no outside?")
It disregards that at its heart, the laws and teaching of judaism are meant not as worship, but as daily reminders of what one ought to be paying attention to whilst engaged in survival here on this rock, and that's a description of reality that is perfectly contained in the Shema. Hence Yeshua's answer in Mark 12:29. In this sense the Krishnas have it more on the ball than any religion dominating in the west. They pray all the time, as Yeshua is reported to have done.
People being people, laws get stuck in place, and Yeshua sought to restore the description of reality that Judaism provides in place of religious ritual. But to call it christianity or islam is missing the point. And dividing as usual. Its all Judaism - the teaching of reality as accepted by the people of Judea a long time ago, the people who chose.
Almost needless to say, people, like religions and laws and traditions, get stuck and there are are some people who will never be able to understand where their religion comes from. However, the rest of us can be grateful that understanding is deepening and changing, and that we're not far off from understanding in the larger world that science and religion are converging on the same goal - an understanding of just what the hell is going on. As soon as we get religion out of both science and spirituality we'll be well on the way, and we're already well on the way to that.
DS
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 02, 2008, 05:14:47 PM
| Andy Peters wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 13:13 | ||||||
I read that the same was that Tom did ... Thanks for showing, yet again, the anti-semitism that bubbles under the evangelical Xtianity. Consider why Xtians want Jews around: to rebuild the temple and hasten Christ's return. At which time, the Jews will be discarded because there is no longer any need to have them around. Lovely theology, mate. -a |
And Andy you know this how? Your comments are based on...
You say this because...
You observed this when...
The authority who told you this is...
Just asking for a bit of clarification.
Post by: PookyNMR on June 02, 2008, 05:30:21 PM
| mgod wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 15:12 |
The idea that christianty is somehow the fulfillment of Judaism is a delusion that has been taught by those who sought and still seek to reinterpret the life of Yesua for 2 millennia |
Umm - actually that's what Jesus and the apostles taught... It's not about re-interpretation.
| mgod wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 15:12 |
Islam has the same conviction as Nathan. |
??? That one needs some serious qualification. Right now it's sounding awfully slanderous and misrepresenting.
| mgod wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 15:12 |
.... "Israel" - "he who struggles with god". Everybody is a Jew.... |
But not everyone struggles with YHWY / Yeshua as their 'god.' Many people struggle with other gods. So, no - even in the loosest sense, not everyone is a Jew. The only way to make that work is a Baha'i stance on all gods are the same and all roads lead to God. Is this what you are advocating?
Post by: studiojimi on June 02, 2008, 05:33:55 PM
| PRobb wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 13:03 |
Well, to be fair, this thread did start with you claim that the way a textbook diagrammed an organic molecule was "scientific" proof of God's existence. |
no i posted it because i found it fascinating
| Quote: |
A medical professional recently shared this email with a friend in which there is a fascinating story about laminin. |
and as it turned out
it turned out to be quite a provactive thread
nothing less.
nothing more.
and by the way....
Jesus is known for praying without ceasing!
Post by: mgod on June 02, 2008, 05:34:11 PM
Your use of the word god is subject to your own view - mine is different, and Jewish. YWWH is not a name for god or a god, it is a representation of one of many ideas.
As to the slander, this assumes that you have a negative view of Islam. Islam sees itself as the heir to judaism identically to some christians, as you have confirmed above.
| PookyNMR wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 14:30 | ||
Umm - actually that's what Jesus and the apostles taught... It's not about re-interpretation. |
Umm - this is incorrect. Yeshua did not teach a new religion.
DS
Post by: mgod on June 02, 2008, 05:35:11 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 14:14 |
And Andy you know this how? Your comments are based on... |
Well Barry, its likely that just like you...he read it. I have.
DS
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 02, 2008, 05:37:54 PM
That Christians only want Jews around so they can build a temple?
If so, can they start now so we can "off" all the Jews now??
See how terrible that is to say? There is NO WHERE in the Bible or any place else I know (where people are sane) where it says that kind of statement - and Dan you know better than that.
Post by: mgod on June 02, 2008, 05:40:21 PM
DS
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 02, 2008, 05:43:29 PM
Let's not let extremists determine what we say, do or think. We can't dismiss them but let's admit they are not the majority of Christians.
Post by: mgod on June 02, 2008, 05:50:25 PM
Yeshua most certainly did not teach separation, he taught unity, as did his predecessors. Its his so-called followers and self-proclaimed heirs who use their invented vision of him to divide themselves from others.
DS
Post by: PookyNMR on June 02, 2008, 06:14:51 PM
| mgod wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 15:34 |
Your use of the word god is subject to your own view - mine is different, and Jewish. YWWH is not a name for god or a god, it is a representation of one of many ideas. |
Not if you're speaking of mainline orthodox Judaism...
| mgod wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 15:34 |
As to the slander, this assumes that you have a negative view of Islam. Islam sees itself as the heir to judaism identically to some christians, as you have confirmed above. |
It's slander because I don't advocate Islam. It's slander because anyone can find some vague common idea and try to discredit someone due to the association with something obviously different than the intent of the speaker. It's a straw man argument.
| mgod wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 15:34 | ||||
Umm - this is incorrect. Yeshua did not teach a new religion. |
You're right, he didn't try to start a 'new religion.' But he did make several statements that were exclusive. And within his orthodox Jewish tradition he made several more statements of the ultimate justice of God, which also in a sense are exclusive. Ignoring those things would be a 're-interpretation.'
| mgod wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 15:34 |
Yeshua most certainly did not teach separation |
That's not totally true. He did teach unity. But he also taught that there would be a separation. Matt 10:34-39.
I would agree that how many Christians segregate themselves from others is not what Jesus taught, but to say that he's "all unity" and had nothing to say of separation is not true. The message of Jesus will divide and alienate people from each other. Jesus stated that a number of times.
Post by: mgod on June 02, 2008, 06:36:24 PM
| PookyNMR wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 15:14 |
Not if you're speaking of mainline orthodox Judaism... |
Dude, I come from generations of Orthodox rabbis. The Jewish concept of god is far more complex than either you understand or are willing to see. From everything you've written here, I think you completely misunderstand the faith of the man you call your god. Seems to me and many christians I know that to really get Yeshua you have to really get Judaism.
| PookyNMR wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 15:14 |
It's slander because I don't advocate Islam. It's slander because anyone can find some vague common idea and try to discredit someone due to the association with something obviously different than the intent of the speaker. It's a straw man argument. |
All I said was that Islam advocates the same alleged principle you do. This reaction from you suggests a real problem with Islam. I have no such problem so there's no slander on this end, it all in your eyes. If there's a negative to be associated with ideas that you and Islam have in common its only you that sees the negative, not me. They're the same to me. Maybe you don't understand slander. You've used the expression "ad hominem" before when your ideas are disagreed with. I'm not sure you're clear on the concepts.
| PookyNMR wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 15:14 |
I would agree that how many Christians segregate themselves from others is not what Jesus taught, but to say that he's "all unity" and had nothing to say of separation is not true. |
And I didn't say that.
| PookyNMR wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 15:14 |
The message of Jesus will divide and alienate people from each other. Jesus stated that a number of times. |
And here we have the fulfillment of that lovely smug misinterpretation. Smug because it justifies so much christian but non-christ-like behavior.
DS
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 02, 2008, 06:43:38 PM
If you're going to state extreme cases where "it only takes a well-armed minority" then there can't be discussion after that. We can all state one extreme example after another to no end and to no purpose.
Post by: mgod on June 02, 2008, 06:55:54 PM
Mine is that even if it isn't the majority, it can be quite effective. Shall we ask those generations of Orthodox I come from? Oh wait, we can't - they're incinerated. 15 million of Yeshua's people in the world now. How many non-majority lunatic christians?
DS
Post by: maxim on June 02, 2008, 08:22:56 PM
i just want to point out that there are orthodox jews and there are ultra-orthodox jews
the ultra-orthodox jews (the lubavitch) believe in the messiah, the devil and spirit possession (every religion has its nutjobs)
the orthodox jews are the followers of the gaon of vilna, who rejected the above sentiments as "emotional" and attempted to stay rational
of course, there are also maskilim jews who have embraced the enlightenment and who see the torah as a poem..
Post by: mgod on June 02, 2008, 08:28:56 PM
DS
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 02, 2008, 09:41:03 PM
Again, I asked Andy and you to tell me in what (sane - how often must I emphasize that?) publication or from what (sane) authority you found this. If you want to be dismissive then fine. You can't answer it so you dismiss it. That's fine.
Post by: maxim on June 02, 2008, 10:00:40 PM
aren't we all?
Post by: studiojimi on June 02, 2008, 10:05:10 PM
Post by: PookyNMR on June 02, 2008, 10:49:17 PM
| mgod wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 16:36 |
Seems to me and many christians I know that to really get Yeshua you have to really get Judaism. |
To understand Jesus - First century orthodox Judaism and its forms, yes. Modern Judaism is as different from first century Judaism as Modern Catholicism is from the first century church.
| PookyNMR wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 15:14 |
The message of Jesus will divide and alienate people from each other. Jesus stated that a number of times. |
And here we have the fulfillment of that lovely smug misinterpretation. Smug because it justifies so much christian but non-christ-like behavior.[/quote]
Well if you've got a better interpretation of the numerous sayings of Jesus explaining to his followers that there will be division and persecution because of the message, go for it.
Post by: CHANCE on June 03, 2008, 08:49:14 AM
Post by: studiojimi on June 03, 2008, 09:35:35 AM
| CHANCE wrote on Tue, 03 June 2008 05:49 |
If anyone (that is part of this discussion) would be interested, some time ago Ken Mansfield (Beatles manager) was at our church. He showed his video and spoke. The video shows some scenes and pictures of the Beatles I have never seen before. His story is very humbling (especially the Whitney Houston story) Ken has become a good friend and gave me permission to copy the video of the evening. If anyone (here) would like a copy, send me an E-mail with "KEN" in the subject header with your snail-dress, and I'll be happy to burn a copy for you. |
i played on 2 albums as a drummer around 1980ish for ken when he was a producer...
great great guy....nice to see he's around doing cool stuff!
Post by: mgod on June 03, 2008, 11:05:35 AM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 18:41 |
Again, I asked Andy and you to tell me in what (sane - how often must I emphasize that?) publication or from what (sane) authority you found this. If you want to be dismissive then fine. You can't answer it so you dismiss it. That's fine. |
I can:
http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/MISC/TheLobby/Inside%20 America's%20Powerful%20Israel%20lobby.htm
(Copy & paste)
Excerpt:
"Inside America's powerful Israel lobby
AIPAC's three-day summit included fiery evangelical oratory, adoration for Dick Cheney -- and new plans for going after Iran.
By Gregory Levey
Mar. 16, 2007 | At the annual policy conference of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee this week in Washington, a conservative Christian couple from eastern Tennessee told me that their son had decided to join the Israeli army. It was one of many surreal moments during the three-day gathering hosted by AIPAC, the lobbying group devoted to ensuring close U.S.-Israel ties that remains extraordinarily influential in Washington. "We just love God, and we just love Israel," the couple beamed, when I asked why they had come to the conference.
Amid an energized and at times almost circus-like atmosphere, just about everyone in attendance shared two main preoccupations: the 2008 U.S. presidential election and confronting Iran. And this year's conference saw record attendance: more than 6,000 people, coming from every state in the country and exceeding last year's crowd of around 5,000. Many of them were American Jews, of course, but the evangelical Christian community also made a strong showing. For those feeling apocalyptic about the turmoil in the Middle East, pastor John Hagee was there to greet them. Of the many prominent speakers at the conference, Hagee got one of the most enthusiastic receptions.
"The sleeping giant of Christian Zionism has awoken!" Hagee proclaimed, taking the microphone at the opening dinner reception on Sunday. The electrified crowd -- most of it Jewish -- roared in support, pounding on the tables. Hagee went on to declare the United Nations a "political brothel" and asserted that Israel must never give up land. He agreed with Israeli writer Dore Gold that granting part of Jerusalem to the Palestinians would be "tantamount to turning it over to the Taliban." And, after rebuking Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, he led the crowd in a chant of "Israel lives!" urging them to "shout it from the mountaintops!"
During Hagee's oratory, an AIPAC delegate sitting near me said, "I'm going to vote for him instead of McCain."
...
John Hagee:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErC1IJeHnyc
http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/84043/
More:
http://www.alternet.org/story/39748/
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/8/10/213055/581
http://www.antiwar.com/ips/berkowitz.php?articleid=10192
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/4/4/14144/60039
christian reaction to Hagee:
http://www.pfo.org/jonhagee.htm
Have fun!
DS
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 03, 2008, 11:12:21 AM
Post by: mgod on June 03, 2008, 11:21:55 AM
Here's my response to your insistence on your specific idea of sane: all of christianty is as easy to dismiss as scientology - god is dead and you killed him 2000 years ago by being born a sinner today. Sane? Hardly. Anything can be dismissed. Followers of "insanity" are are just dismissible as followers of "sanity".
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060814/new_christian_zionism
DS
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 03, 2008, 11:35:52 AM
I know of, and understand, "Reverend" Hagee. I know his platform, his politics and his program, which is on tv regularly in STL. What do you want me to say? This is still not the majority of Christians. If find his ministry "notable" in the sense one must keep an eye on it. But remember, the original premise was Andy's that (paraphrasing) "Christians want Jews to build the Temple so they can kill them when it's completed". My point was to have him or someone else show me where any sane group of Christians is doing that. I have yet to have that shown to me.
Again, you can find all the extremist examples you want. I'm not dismissing them or their existence. I just want to be shown where mainstream Christians are doing as Andy suggests. It appears even Andy has backed out of this discussion.
Post by: tom eaton on June 03, 2008, 12:06:35 PM
-tom
Post by: PRobb on June 03, 2008, 12:11:20 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Tue, 03 June 2008 11:35 |
Dan, I know of, and understand, "Reverend" Hagee. I know his platform, his politics and his program, which is on tv regularly in STL. What do you want me to say? This is still not the majority of Christians. If find his ministry "notable" in the sense one must keep an eye on it. But remember, the original premise was Andy's that (paraphrasing) "Christians want Jews to build the Temple so they can kill them when it's completed". My point was to have him or someone else show me where any sane group of Christians is doing that. I have yet to have that shown to me. Again, you can find all the extremist examples you want. I'm not dismissing them or their existence. I just want to be shown where mainstream Christians are doing as Andy suggests. It appears even Andy has backed out of this discussion. |
That's very circular logic. You say show me a SANE group that says that. But your definition of "sane" excludes anyone who says that. I think that's called a tautology.
I'm sure (I hope) that view of the Jews is not Christian mainstream, but it is certainly an idea I have heard very often and for a long time.
Post by: CHANCE on June 03, 2008, 12:30:57 PM
| CHANCE wrote on Tue, 03 June 2008 05:49 |
If anyone (that is part of this discussion) would be interested, some time ago Ken Mansfield (Beatles manager) was at our church. He showed his video and spoke. The video shows some scenes and pictures of the Beatles I have never seen before. His story is very humbling (especially the Whitney Houston story) Ken has become a good friend and gave me permission to copy the video of the evening. If anyone (here) would like a copy, send me an E-mail with "KEN" in the subject header with your snail-dress, and I'll be happy to burn a copy for you. |
I'll be sending them out this weekend. Enjoy.
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 03, 2008, 02:19:15 PM
So far, I've only been presented with extremists.
With regard to another point I also don't agree that the "mainstream" is insane. The mainstream of people, Christians or not are complacent. If not, Bush wouldn't still be in power. Long ago he and Cheney would have been booted out on their asses after a dual impeachment (a "two-fer").
I readily concede right wing Christians have supported and promoted an evil influence on our government. I have no problem saying that.
Back to the original point: Despite all of this, there is no evidence that mainstream Christians, and a majority of them, want to kill off Jews, for any reason. Say whatever else you want at the moment about Christians, Andy's point is what I resent. Even Andy knows it is baseless or else he'd be involved in this part of the conversation. So in the end he expressed an opinion, which is fine, but I'd like him to admit it is a bias rather than an opinion supported by fact. Otherwise it is a slander I resent.
Post by: mgod on June 03, 2008, 04:05:13 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Tue, 03 June 2008 11:19 |
Even Andy knows it is baseless or else he'd be involved in this part of the conversation. |
he might just be busy...
DS
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 03, 2008, 05:11:06 PM
I'm busy too.
Post by: studiojimi on June 03, 2008, 05:54:04 PM
Post by: PRobb on June 03, 2008, 06:30:10 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Tue, 03 June 2008 17:54 |
MORE ON LAMININS (our topic) |
Um.....so?
Post by: maxim on June 04, 2008, 03:53:09 AM
"the structure of and influences upon our current government are NOT sane"
if only it were so...
unfortunately those influences have no more to do with religion as it takes to swing a few right wing voters' opinions
the real influences are very real and very sane and are getting exactly what they wanted from this government
think haliburton, and that's just one of the small fish corporations who were dumb enough to get exposed...
Post by: mgod on June 04, 2008, 09:57:50 AM
By Max Blumenthal
August 8, 2006
Over the past months, the White House has convened a series of off-the-record meetings about its policies in the Middle East with leaders of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), a newly formed political organization that tells its members that supporting Israel's expansionist policies is "a biblical imperative." CUFI's Washington lobbyist, David Brog, told me that during the meetings, CUFI representatives pressed White House officials to adopt a more confrontational posture toward Iran, refuse aid to the Palestinians and give Israel a free hand as it ramped up its military conflict with Hezbollah.
The White House instructed Brog not to reveal the names of officials he met with, Brog said.
CUFI's advice to the Bush Administration reflects the Armageddon-based foreign-policy views of its founder, John Hagee. Hagee is a fire-and-brimstone preacher from San Antonio who commands the nearly 18,000-member Cornerstone Church and hosts a major TV ministry where he explains to millions of viewers how the end times will unfold. He is also the author of numerous bestselling pulp-prophecy books, like his recent Jerusalem Countdown, in which he cites various unnamed Israeli intelligence sources to claim that Iran is producing nuclear "suitcase bombs." The only way to defeat the Iranian evildoers, he says, is a full-scale military assault.
"The coming nuclear showdown with Iran is a certainty," Hagee wrote this year in the Pentecostal magazine Charisma. "Israel and America must confront Iran's nuclear ability and willingness to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons. For Israel to wait is to risk committing national suicide."
...
Might be a minority, might even be a tiny minority, but its a very significant minority. Should we assume that masses of "sane" christians are also getting the ear of the White House? Give me Jeremiah Wright any day over this.
DS
Post by: MagnetoSound on June 04, 2008, 10:46:01 AM
Like I said earlier,
| Quote: |
.... religion is susceptible to state manipulation, which tends to divide and separate peoples according to national and political interests which, in turn, invariably leads to war and oppression .... |
For decades, America (and Britain) sold arms to Iran (and all the other Arab countries at the same time), and presumably still do. Secretly, of course, because this is all about propaganda.
It seems obvious that the US is systematically trying to take over the middle-east by fanning the flames of religious conflict.
If Iraq is not enough of a giveaway, then Israel surely ought to be. Once you remember about the US arms deals with Iran, it becomes fairly obvious, but no-one mentions that anymore, do they? The Saudis are already on side, so that area happens to be mysteriously trouble-free.
Clearly, this is all about oil. So what else is new?
(Sorry Jimmy, I don't think anyone really wants to talk about laminins.)
Dan
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 04, 2008, 11:40:09 AM
| mgod wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 08:57 |
Birth Pangs of a New Christian Zionism(excerpt) By Max Blumenthal August 8, 2006 Over the past months, the White House has convened a series of off-the-record meetings about its policies in the Middle East with leaders of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), a newly formed political organization that tells its members that supporting Israel's expansionist policies is "a biblical imperative." CUFI's Washington lobbyist, David Brog, told me that during the meetings, CUFI representatives pressed White House officials to adopt a more confrontational posture toward Iran, refuse aid to the Palestinians and give Israel a free hand as it ramped up its military conflict with Hezbollah. The White House instructed Brog not to reveal the names of officials he met with, Brog said. CUFI's advice to the Bush Administration reflects the Armageddon-based foreign-policy views of its founder, John Hagee. Hagee is a fire-and-brimstone preacher from San Antonio who commands the nearly 18,000-member Cornerstone Church and hosts a major TV ministry where he explains to millions of viewers how the end times will unfold. He is also the author of numerous bestselling pulp-prophecy books, like his recent Jerusalem Countdown, in which he cites various unnamed Israeli intelligence sources to claim that Iran is producing nuclear "suitcase bombs." The only way to defeat the Iranian evildoers, he says, is a full-scale military assault. "The coming nuclear showdown with Iran is a certainty," Hagee wrote this year in the Pentecostal magazine Charisma. "Israel and America must confront Iran's nuclear ability and willingness to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons. For Israel to wait is to risk committing national suicide." ... Might be a minority, might even be a tiny minority, but its a very significant minority. Should we assume that masses of "sane" christians are also getting the ear of the White House? Give me Jeremiah Wright any day over this. DS |
I think this is interesting. I think it bears paying attention to. Do I think this is going to make a difference? No.
Why? In part because the Bush regime will be out of power in a few months. Because Congress has vowed to impeach Bush immediately if he attacks Iran and Bush doesn't want to be remembered the same way as Clinton. And he doesn't want history to recall him as the worst president ever. All he's thinking about now is his legacy. And it's not attacking Iran.
Further, Haggee is wrong. He says, in essence, that if we (the U.S.) fail to act God's plan for Israel will be undone. That, of course, is stupid. How can God's plan be thwarted by men? It's idiotic and it's an extremist position.
Unfortunately, Haggee has a notable right-wing political base so he must receive some attention from the Bush administration as he helped them get into office and the Republicans need him to put McCain in office.
After what I believe to be a token meeting, Haggee can say he's been heard and the Bush administration can ignore him, just as they have ignored all other "faith-based" initiatives.
Post by: malice on June 04, 2008, 11:46:45 AM
| MagnetoSound wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 16:46 |
For decades, America (and Britain) sold arms to Iran (and all the other Arab countries at the same time). |
So true. They were feeding both camp as a atter of facts. Before Iranian/ Iraquian war, hey did sold Chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein that used them against the Kurds.
This is well documented. They managed both to be the cause of WMD uses against civilians in the area, and take this as an oportunity to declare War against Iraq while they knew he did have them anymore.
Hypocrisy at its finest. Using the religion antagonisms as the fuel for their little organised chaos.
The French are no better believe me.
Sometimes I wanna be Canadian.
Yeah, that's it, I wanna be ...
a lumberjack
malice
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 04, 2008, 11:50:33 AM
(sings)
I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK.
now... where's my lingerie...
Post by: Jay Kadis on June 04, 2008, 11:53:11 AM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 08:50 |
Yes!! A Lumberjack!! (sings) I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK. |
Post by: Tomas Danko on June 04, 2008, 11:55:41 AM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 16:50 |
Yes!! A Lumberjack!! (sings) I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK. now... where's my lingerie... |
I wish I was a W
Post by: malice on June 04, 2008, 12:10:53 PM
malice
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 04, 2008, 12:32:38 PM
Post by: studiojimi on June 04, 2008, 01:05:07 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 08:50 |
Yes!! A Lumberjack!! (sings) I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK. now... where's my lingerie... |
i'm glad you said it so i didn't have to....
all we need is another ghey french canadian
Post by: PRobb on June 04, 2008, 01:27:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCwLirQS2-o
Post by: malice on June 04, 2008, 01:38:46 PM
| PRobb wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 19:27 |
Oh goodie- It's now a Python thread! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCwLirQS2-o |
I can stay on both topics if you like, and I have a good ending to finish this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1loyjm4SOa0
malice
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 04, 2008, 05:21:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xck9FaO_zA4
Post by: Andy Peters on June 04, 2008, 08:10:58 PM
| mgod wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 14:40 |
There are many things available to be read other than one of the many bibles. What I know better is that there is an evangelical movement in this country that wants exactly what Andy described. I suppose the qualifier is sanity... |
Thanks, Dan. Exactly.
-a
Post by: Andy Peters on June 04, 2008, 08:13:13 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 14:43 |
Please reread the section in my posting where the phrase is "where people are sane". Let's not let extremists determine what we say, do or think. We can't dismiss them but let's admit they are not the majority of Christians. |
Well, funny, because these extremists are the ones we see on television: the Pat Robertsons and their ilk.
The fact that every Republican presidential candidate must bow down before these people is just unimaginable. I will never even CONSIDER voting for any Republican, not even for dog-catcher, until that party wholly disavows the Xtian right.
I am not holding my breath.
-a
Post by: Andy Peters on June 04, 2008, 08:14:29 PM
| PookyNMR wrote on Mon, 02 June 2008 11:28 | ||
Have you read the OT? |
Only the parts about the smiting.
-a
Post by: Andy Peters on June 04, 2008, 08:24:53 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Tue, 03 June 2008 08:35 |
Dan, I know of, and understand, "Reverend" Hagee. I know his platform, his politics and his program, which is on tv regularly in STL. What do you want me to say? This is still not the majority of Christians. If find his ministry "notable" in the sense one must keep an eye on it. But remember, the original premise was Andy's that (paraphrasing) "Christians want Jews to build the Temple so they can kill them when it's completed". My point was to have him or someone else show me where any sane group of Christians is doing that. I have yet to have that shown to me. Again, you can find all the extremist examples you want. I'm not dismissing them or their existence. I just want to be shown where mainstream Christians are doing as Andy suggests. It appears even Andy has backed out of this discussion. |
Sorry, been busy actually having a life. It happens.
Anyways, obviously it's not the "sane" Christians who believe in the Armageddon story and the need for the temple to be rebuilt. Really, Revelations was John's peyote ramblings.
However, it's the INSANE Christians I worry about. And while reasonable people can agree that the concept of "Christians want Jews to rebuild the Temple to bring about the events described in John's peyote-fueled trip, and since Jews won't repent and accept Jesus, they're going to be cast aside when the Rapture occurs" is an excellent definition of weapons-grade bullshit, that very meme is out there and some "less than sane" Xtians believe it (after all, if their pastor said it ...).
It only takes one lunatic...
-a
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 04, 2008, 08:50:00 PM
But you've never answered the one and only point I care about -- where do you get that Christians want the Jews to build the temple so they can kill them? That's all I want answered.
I am one of the insane Christians who does believe there will be Armageddon. I am one who believes the Jews will find the ashes of the red heifer and will restore blood sacrifice in the temple. I am one who believes the prophecies in Revelation will come to pass.
But at NO TIME is it EVER mentioned that Christians want the Jews to build the temple so we can kill them. You just don't find that anywhere.
In fact, it will be The Beast, The False Prophet and Satan who will make war with Israel. Three and a half years after the temple is built The Beast will enter the temple, stand on the altar and declare himself to be god. This is followed by three and a half years of (tremendous, worse than Hitler) persecution of the Jews. As The Beast and his forces are attacking Jerusalem, Christ will descend from Heaven and stand upon the Mount of Olives (where he prayed the night before his crucifixion) and will rescue the Jews.
Now, that IS NOT the Battle of Armageddon, which happens just before the Day of Judgment. Armageddon happens at or on the hill of Megiddo, an archaeological site on the plain of Esdraelon, south of present-day Haifa in Israel.
But that is a looooooonnnnnnggggg way off. So we can argue about that later.
Anyway, just because Revelation doesn't make sense to you, that doesn't mean you are free to misinterpret it or deride it in front of Christians. Any place else and to anyone else, have at it.
But you still haven't answered my question...
I know you're busy, stay well.
Post by: studiojimi on June 04, 2008, 08:59:11 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 17:50 |
just because Revelation doesn't make sense to you, that doesn't mean you are free to misinterpret it or deride it in front of Christians. Any place else and to anyone else, have at it. |
Christian scholars can't even agree on this
why not just let Andy be entitled to state his truth a leave it at that.
John had issues late in life.
could have been blood sugar...or even bi polar.
he's human
imagine keeping his ego in check after being one of the son's of thunder
man like that's like being in the stones or a beatle or something
Post by: Jessica A. Engle on June 04, 2008, 09:16:58 PM
Every person is responsible for judging whether or not any given person with a soapbox to stand on is worth listening to.
Television doesn't exist to give equal representation to the extremists and the "boring" Xtians like me. And since when should we believe everything we see on TV?
If we're going to pick on "less than sane" people, why bother limiting ourselves to Xtians? If you're going to spend one second of your time worrying about the crazy ones, at least divide that second in half, and devote the other half to all the crazy secular people around.
Or, you can revel in your good judgement and just dismiss what they have to say. I'm glad noone in my ten years of Xtianity has ever encouraged me to hate Jews. If they did, I would have dissented. Loudly if necessary. Every church, prayer group, bible study I've ever attended has taught this: "If you aren't loving everyone without exception (e.g. Love your Neighbor, Love Your Enemy, Love your God, and Love yourself), you've misunderstood something along the way. We're here to help each other fix our misunderstandings".
This is accountability. Any church worth its salt should be teaching its attendees how vitally important this is to our faith.
Some Xtians don't feel they need to be held accountable. Because accountability is freaking hard work. Those folks might never stray from their "mission first" ideology long enough to figure out it should be "people first". This is pretty sad. Because those people will never grow, or become better, or wiser. They will just continue to drive good folks who have good judgement away from God.
The truth is, you could never win one's faith (politics, religion, marriage (I presume), anything) unless one knows you have the capacity and desire to love them. Then you actually have to do it (love them).
I know it's hard to understand, equally as hard for a "boring" non-incindiary Xtian like me as it is for a lay person. But here it is: those extremists have just got some things wrong that they aren't willing to give up. I mean, isn't that what GWB has going for him? He's got some things wrong. If he changed them, he might be a good guy or even (gasp) a good president. But he doesn't want to examine himself. That's work. And that's admitting he could be wrong, or he could be human.
Turns out, lots of people don't want to admit how ugly they are inside, not just Xtians. Maybe we deserve to be picked on by lay people for a lot of reasons. But some of us take our accountability to God very seriously. We (I) mess up along the way, but we try.
Just because we aren't on TV doesn't mean we're not here.
Chocolate milk is delicious,
Jess
Post by: Bill Mueller on June 04, 2008, 09:31:39 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 20:59 | ||
Christian scholars can't even agree on this why not just let Andy be entitled to state his truth a leave it at that. John had issues late in life. could have been blood sugar...or even bi polar. he's human imagine keeping his ego in check after being one of the son's of thunder man like that's like being in the stones or a beatle or something |
Wow,
I think I agree with Jimi. Crap...Now I'm all confused!
Actually....This mixing of faith and sanity makes me uncomfortable. I have to say that I'm comforted by Barry's assertion that he is insane. At least we have a foundation to work from. Anytime you totally believe in something that patently cannot be proved, it makes me nervous to then assign sanity and insanity to just about any other behavior. It's perfectly fine to revel in your own shared delusions. It just gets scary when they leak out and start causing discomfort for those who do not share your fantasy.
First, I grew up Irish Catholic. That means that ALL Y'ALL ARE GOING TO HELL, because as everyone knows the one true church is the Catholic Church and EVERYBODY ELSE including my beautiful Grandfather (a protestant, what a scandal!) is going to hell. That is what my priestly uncle the Monsignor's assistant told me right before he ran off with his secretary, had five illegitimate children, three of whom were adopted by my loving Aunt and Uncle.
That and the other Monsignor who told me my little sister was so perfect that God just had to take her for himself, kind of turned me off to organized mind control.
So who is more sane, my oldest son who has mild schizophrenia and thinks he hears voices or Barry who read a book (and don't start with the "holy" stuff. That is also part of the delusion) and believes the end of the world will go just so.
In the end it is not my judgment. At all. None. As far as I'm concerned, there are far more important things for me to deal with than what OTHER PEOPLE believe.
I have my own delusions to deal with.
Best Regards,
Bill
Post by: mgod on June 04, 2008, 09:40:14 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 17:50 |
(tremendous, worse than Hitler) |
pffffffffffttttttt!!!!!
'Scuse me, I just sprayed chocolate milk out of my nose.
Worse? How so? He gets all of us instead of 90%?
| Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 17:50 |
Anyway, just because Revelation doesn't make sense to you, that doesn't mean you are free to misinterpret it or deride it in front of Christians. Any place else and to anyone else, have at it. |
OK - put up. Give us the ONE TRUE interpretation. I'll start building your church. (Donations please?)
I always thought the mainstream branch of American Presbo-Lutheranism had the true word.
Edit: btw, of course he's free to deride it, until whatever branch of whatever church wins out in the battle to control free speech. I find judaism derided in here quite often, by well-meaning "christians" who imagine they understand it by reading books. This is free-speech internets!
| Jessica A. Engle wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 18:16 |
Some Xtians don't feel they need to be held accountable. Because accountability is freaking hard work. Those folks might never stray from their "mission first" ideology long enough to figure out it should be "people first". This is pretty sad. Because those people will never grow, or become better, or wiser. They will just continue to drive good folks who have good judgment away from God. |
Just a side-note - its not actually possible for one person to drive another away from god. This assumes that anyone stands closer to god than anyone else, and that is virtually the very definition of arrogance and hubris. I understand that's the opposite of your intent, Jessica.
Imagine that the person in the "driving away" position here is viewed by the "person being driven away" with forgiveness and love - the party of the first part is now driving the party of the second part closer to god, while alienating the party of the second part from the party of the first part's "godly" delusions.
I coulda been a contender!
DS
Post by: Jessica A. Engle on June 04, 2008, 10:07:25 PM
| mgod wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 20:40 | ||
Just a side-note - its not actually possible for one person to drive another away from god. This assumes that anyone stands closer to god than anyone else, and that is virtually the very definition of arrogance and hubris. I understand that's the opposite of your intent, Jessica. Imagine that the person in the "driving away" position here is viewed by the "person being driven away" with forgiveness and love - the party of the first part is now driving the party of the second part closer to god, while alienating the party of the second part from the party of the first part's "godly" delusions. I coulda been a contender! DS |
Well spoken Dan.
However, I think this thread (and countless others like it) are proof that most people in the "person being driven away" position don't respond with forgiveness and love.
That's not a knock on anybody, by the way. Just an observation.... I get angry sometimes too. Lots of times, actually.
If we could all love and forgive each other perfectly, I think we could have realized by now that the only reason we're fighting in this thread is because a couple people got their feelings hurt and noone wants to apologize or move on.
Careful with the choco moo-juice. It'll do you good, but not if it's lodged in your sinuses.
Jessica
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 04, 2008, 10:40:09 PM
I'm not referring to a specific interpretation of Revelation. I am talking about Andy's interpretation that Christians want to kill the Jews after they build the temple. That has been my only point for the last half-dozen postings. I keep telling people that's my one and only point and no one seems to get it. But you can still send me money for my church. My denomination is Frisbeeteryian. We believe that when you die your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down. (I know that's old but I love it so) So please accept my point -- my one and only point. Is it my only point? Why yes it is. I mean, you know, it's my only point.
Of course one is free to deride anything in front of anyone. What I meant and maybe didn't express clearly is that if you're going to say things so as to misconstrue the relationship of Christianity with respect to Jews (such as the outlandish statement that we want to kill them after building the temple), then you're going to get an argument, at least one from me, which I've been pursuing for the last six postings.
So when making any further response to what I've written, please address these points instead of going off on tangents.
Now with regard to Biblical prophecy, please believe what you will. The time of the great tribulation is supposed to fall upon the Jews. It must be true in some fashion as just mentioning it made milk come out of your nose. How much more terrible will the actual thing be?
Post by: mgod on June 04, 2008, 10:43:23 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 19:40 |
My denomination is Frisbeeteryian. We believe that when you die your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down. (I know that's old but I love it so) |
Its new to me! Sign me up!
I can hear the most sacred hymn now...
DS
Post by: Hallams on June 04, 2008, 10:43:47 PM
Sort of an oxymoron isn't it?
An oxymoron (plural oxymorons or, more rarely, oxymora) is a figure of speech that combines two normally contradictory terms. Oxymoron is a loanword from Greek oxy ("sharp" or "pointed") and moros ("dull"). Thus the word oxymoron is, by definition, an oxymoron.
Oxymorons are a proper subset of the expressions called contradictions in terms. What distinguishes oxymorons from other paradoxes and contradictions is that they are used intentionally, for rhetorical effect, and the contradiction is only apparent, as the combination of terms provides a novel expression of some concept, such as "cruel to be kind".
The most common form of oxymoron involves an adjective-noun combination. For example, the following line from Tennyson's Idylls of the King contains two oxymorons:
"And faith unfaithful kept him falsely true"
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 04, 2008, 10:49:27 PM
The first hymn for you to learn is already written. Sing it to the melody of "Bringing in the Sheaves". If you don't know that melody you can come reasonably close with "Hava Nagila".
"Someone's on the roof, someone's on the roof. We will all rejoice now 'cause someone's on the roof."
Hava Nagila's a bit of a stretch between words and music but whatcha gonna do?
Post by: maxim on June 04, 2008, 10:50:31 PM
Post by: Hallams on June 04, 2008, 11:02:21 PM
| maxim wrote on Thu, 05 June 2008 12:50 |
chocolate milk inhalation is known to cause delusions and brain freeze... |
Whereas lamingtons keep you in touch with reality.
Post by: jetbase on June 04, 2008, 11:14:18 PM
Inspired by this thread I decided that, for yesterday's mixing session, I would replace the normal supply of Ginger Kisses & Mint Slices with Lamington Fingers (smaller in size than regular Lamingtons) in order to keep my clients in a good mood so that they would approve my mix with greater ease.
The use of Lamington Fingers achieved it's desired effect, however, there was an unforseen (though in hindsight, quite obvious) side effect. The floor of the control room & the top surface of the 2" MTR (which wasn't actually being used for this session) is now covered in dessicated coconut.
I wasn't able to clean up the dessicated coconut directly, because by the time I had finished the mix, sent the clients on their way & cleaned up all the pizza boxes & coke bottles it was 2am & I wanted to get home in time to grab an hour's sleep before my son's 3:30am feed (to give my wife a break - though I'm not lactating or anything).
Hopefully the dessicate will not act as a dessicant & attract moisture that could decimate the delicate parts inside the MTR.
Anyway, I feel fine now... thank God. I think I'll buy some Milky Ways for the next session.
G
Post by: maxim on June 04, 2008, 11:14:57 PM
"I wasn't able to clean up the dessicated coconut"
just tell your clients you have a bad case of dandruff...
Post by: jetbase on June 04, 2008, 11:18:27 PM
| maxim wrote on Thu, 05 June 2008 13:14 |
direct intraneural lamington implants have been known to elevate consciousness... "I wasn't able to clean up the dessicated coconut" just tell your clients you have a bad case of dandruff... |
I was thinking about telling my dandruff that I have a bad case of clients. Maybe it's my elevated consciousness talking...
Post by: Hallams on June 04, 2008, 11:23:14 PM
Post by: mgod on June 04, 2008, 11:40:12 PM
| mgod wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 19:43 |
I can hear the most sacred hymn now... |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MopbhuZ2Bh0
DS
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 05, 2008, 12:14:04 AM
For me a city roof is tar, pigeon crap and loud noise. It takes a special person to see something so wonderful in a rooftop. It think it's not only a real "city" song but distinctively New York.
Post by: maxim on June 05, 2008, 04:05:45 AM
you don't want to piss off your dandruff...
Post by: maxim on June 05, 2008, 04:10:59 AM
she makes it sound positively romantic...
Post by: studiojimi on June 05, 2008, 04:18:48 PM
great chick songwriter
clearly a songwriter/singer
not the other way around
Post by: maxim on June 05, 2008, 08:27:50 PM
great songwriter
one of the greatest!!!
Post by: studiojimi on June 05, 2008, 08:43:56 PM
perhaps if you let go watch this dance
and just relax ..... you will ponder the power of the Christ within ever waiting ....even fighting for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyheJ480LYA
this is a compelling video....chew on this for a while
Post by: Berolzheimer on June 06, 2008, 12:53:11 AM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 17:50 |
I am one of the insane Christians who does believe there will be Armageddon. I am one who believes the Jews will find the ashes of the red heifer and will restore blood sacrifice in the temple. I am one who believes the prophecies in Revelation will come to pass. ........In fact, it will be The Beast, The False Prophet and Satan who will make war with Israel. Three and a half years after the temple is built The Beast will enter the temple, stand on the altar and declare himself to be god. This is followed by three and a half years of (tremendous, worse than Hitler) persecution of the Jews. As The Beast and his forces are attacking Jerusalem, Christ will descend from Heaven and stand upon the Mount of Olives (where he prayed the night before his crucifixion) and will rescue the Jews. Now, that IS NOT the Battle of Armageddon, which happens just before the Day of Judgment. Armageddon happens at or on the hill of Megiddo, an archaeological site on the plain of Esdraelon, south of present-day Haifa in Israel. |
I'm sorry, but doesn't that all sound just a little too......Hollywood?
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 06, 2008, 11:18:59 AM
Post by: vegas4ever on June 06, 2008, 11:34:31 AM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 10:18 |
You mean like Hollywood existed a couple or thousand years ago and inspired the writing or that Hollywood doesn't have any original ideas so they take them from literature or that Hollywood has used the idea so often that it reminds one of Hollywood? |
On the same topic (Israel and hollywood) anyone going to see:
"You Don't Mess With The Zohan"
Post by: PRobb on June 06, 2008, 03:30:52 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Thu, 05 June 2008 20:43 |
perhaps metaphysically understanding laminins is not for you |
You do understand they don't actually look like that and it's just a.............
Aaah, never mind.
Sure. God put little crosses in our cells.
Has anybody noticed that the intestines look like The Flying Spaghetti Monster? All hail his noodley appendage!
Post by: Berolzheimer on June 06, 2008, 04:39:24 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 08:18 |
You mean like Hollywood existed a couple or thousand years ago and inspired the writing or that Hollywood doesn't have any original ideas so they take them from literature or that Hollywood has used the idea so often that it reminds one of Hollywood? |
Yes that's true of course but I meant that it's just all so pat and melodramatic.
I don't know, I like you, Barry, and agree with you on most all social & political issues, so I hate to say it but believing that that scenario will take place just seems silly to me.
However if it floats your boat, have at it, to each his own.
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 06, 2008, 05:11:36 PM
I don't mind that it seems too pat or melodramatic. And this isn't the half of it! You also get plagues, half the world being wiped out and the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. It's global in scope, dramatic in action. In involves actions in Heaven, Hell and on the Earth. Christ will reign on Earth for 1000 years then Satan will be given time to reign. Then Armageddon. Then judgment of ALL people before God. Then this Earth is burnt to a crisp before a new one is created. Amazing isn't it?! If that's not enough for you we can give it a Hollywood ending - Bruce Willis gets the girl.
If you want to give it a good movie title it could be, "Die REALLY Hard".
But in seriousness, these will be terrible times and frankly I don't want to be on Earth when this all comes to pass. I'd like the Bible to be wrong. Yet, as horrible as it will be I believe it will happen.
But don't worry. You're right - to each his own.
Post by: mgod on June 06, 2008, 05:39:26 PM
But don't ask me for the metaphorical meaning of it. That one's too far out even for me. Noodly appendages make more sense.
DS
Post by: Andy Peters on June 06, 2008, 07:58:00 PM
| mgod wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 14:39 |
Well, if, like the story of Exodus, Revelation can be a story that exists on two levels, than what happens when you look at all the elements of it and imagine them happening inside you? At that point it becomes, rather than "simply" a story of god's wrath that might inspire fear of the future, something which one might use in the present to improve oneself. Revelation now! But don't ask me for the metaphorical meaning of it. That one's too far out even for me. Noodly appendages make more sense. |
Peyote trip is the most reasonable explanation.
-a
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 06, 2008, 08:09:01 PM
While it is a prophecy of the trouble to come, it is ultimately hopeful for all the faithful.
Post by: Berolzheimer on June 06, 2008, 08:39:18 PM
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 06, 2008, 09:04:37 PM
Post by: Bill_Urick on June 06, 2008, 09:10:30 PM
| Hallams wrote on Wed, 04 June 2008 23:23 |
That's it! .........Jetbase has dessicated the temple! |
So, the temple will be...dry?
Won't be any Episcopalians there.
You know, where ever three or four are gathered together....
There's always a fifth?
On a serious note:
If you seek converts to your faith, whatever that faith may be,
I suggest you live a life of humility, compassion and service.
Then when those around you want to know from whence comes this aura of peace with yourself and the world tell them about your faith. It'll mean more.
There used to be a billboard near my house that said:
"God loves you, turn or burn." I'll bet that really filled up the pews, huh?
As the tee shirt says:
"Everyone has to believe something, I believe I'll have another!"
After all, I was raised an Episcopalian.
All the genuflections, half the guilt.
Post by: PRobb on June 06, 2008, 10:33:42 PM
| Berolzheimer wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 20:39 |
Boy, for being all-powerful, this diety sure is insecure- all this needing to be believed in, needing to be worshiped all the time. Sounds like some musicians I know. |
Randy Newman has you covered. Jimi keeps posting that long stuff, well it's my turn.
Cain slew Abel, Seth knew not why
For if the children of Israel were to multiply
Why must any of the children die?
So he asked the Lord
And the Lord said:
"Man means nothing he means less to me
than the lowiliest cactus flower
or the humblest yucca tree
he chases round this desert
cause he thinks that's where i'll be
that's why i love mankind
I recoil in horror from the foulness of thee
from the squalor, and the filth, and the misery
How we laugh up here in heaven at the prayers you offer me
That's why i love mankind"
The Christians and the Jews were having a jamboree
The Buddhists and the Hindus joined on satellite TV
They picked their four greatest priests
And they began to speak
They said "Lord the plague is on the world
Lord no man is free
The temples that we built to you
Have tumbled into the sea
Lord, if you won't take care of us
Won't you please please let us be?"
And the Lord said
And the Lord said
"I burn down your cities--how blind you must be
I take from you your children and you say how blessed are we
You must all be crazy to put your faith in me
That's why i love mankind
You really need me
That's why i love mankind"
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 07, 2008, 12:16:13 AM
| Leto II wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 20:10 | ||
So, the temple will be...dry? Won't be any Episcopalians there. You know, where ever three or four are gathered together.... There's always a fifth? On a serious note: If you seek converts to your faith, whatever that faith may be, I suggest you live a life of humility, compassion and service. Then when those around you want to know from whence comes this aura of peace with yourself and the world tell them about your faith. It'll mean more. There used to be a billboard near my house that said: "God loves you, turn or burn." I'll bet that really filled up the pews, huh? As the tee shirt says: "Everyone has to believe something, I believe I'll have another!" After all, I was raised an Episcopalian. All the genuflections, half the guilt. |
I love what is written in your post. Very funny.
It will never happen with me, but you are correct. The best expression of your faith is love, charity and understanding. People will be so impressed with that you won't have to offer to tell them what you believe, they will ask you.
As I said, that's not going to happen with me. Oddly, this site is the only place where I talk about my faith. I can't tell you the last time it's come up in personal conversation. And to my mind, that's a good thing. I don't want to wear it on my sleeve. But it seems to me I do wear it on my sleeve here. Hmmmmmm....
Post by: Berolzheimer on June 07, 2008, 03:38:04 AM
| PRobb wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 19:33 | ||
Randy Newman has you covered. Jimi keeps posting that long stuff, well it's my turn. Cain slew Abel, Seth knew not why For if the children of Israel were to multiply Why must any of the children die? So he asked the Lord And the Lord said: "Man means nothing he means less to me than the lowiliest cactus flower or the humblest yucca tree he chases round this desert cause he thinks that's where i'll be that's why i love mankind I recoil in horror from the foulness of thee from the squalor, and the filth, and the misery How we laugh up here in heaven at the prayers you offer me That's why i love mankind" The Christians and the Jews were having a jamboree The Buddhists and the Hindus joined on satellite TV They picked their four greatest priests And they began to speak They said "Lord the plague is on the world Lord no man is free The temples that we built to you Have tumbled into the sea Lord, if you won't take care of us Won't you please please let us be?" And the Lord said And the Lord said "I burn down your cities--how blind you must be I take from you your children and you say how blessed are we You must all be crazy to put your faith in me That's why i love mankind You really need me That's why i love mankind" |
Another great song from RN. Love that guy. Almost makes me want to forgive him for "Short People".
(kidding, that's a great song too.)
Post by: Bill Mueller on June 07, 2008, 10:45:46 AM
| Berolzheimer wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 20:39 |
Boy, for being all-powerful, this diety sure is insecure- all this needing to be believed in, needing to be worshiped all the time. Sounds like some musicians I know. |
!I'm seriously considering replacing JJ with this line.
Best Regards,
Bill
Post by: Bill Mueller on June 07, 2008, 11:08:31 AM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 21:04 |
As the world continues and as hearts grow colder, it will take more and more dramatic examples to encourage those on earth to believe and be saved - from themselves and their evil actions. |
Barry,
I want to caution against cultivating despair as a tool for recruitment. Things are not so bad.
We are currently living in what may be the most peaceful period in the entire history of mankind. More people are professing their love of Jesus, God, Yahweh, Buddha, Islam, etc, than ever in history. BILLIONS of them.
I'm not sure what good it's doing, as religion is a VERY sharp two edged sword. But maybe it IS doing some good. It has been nearly sixty years since we killed off 50 million people in a few years time.
I tend to credit global connectedness and economic reliance for the pause in world wide genocide though. When everybody knows what your doing, it is harder to get away with murder. The UN just outed the ENTIRE government of the Sudan for instance. That does not bode well for their tourist trade.
Global connectedness also is a two edged sword, because we all experience everyone else's catastrophes together in Indonesia, New Orleans or Myanmar. We have a few natural disasters and everybody goes running for their End Of The World fallout shelters. Things change. The world changes. During the time when there was more O2 in the atmosphere and biodiversity was at it's greatest, there was no permanent ice to be found anywhere on the Earth.
I see our evolution tied to our ability to see and love ourselves as one people inhabiting one small, incredibly beautiful planet in a sea of inhospitable rocks and fireballs. This is one reason I believe so strongly in the space program to have put everything on the line to join.
Best Regards,
Bill
Post by: Jessica A. Engle on June 07, 2008, 11:27:30 AM
It's not a recruitment tool. Recruitment implies that Christianity exists to serve itself, to grow itself. I'm not sure how true that is..... I think that's more of a goal of humans than a tennant of Christianity. Careful not to confuse the two, because as a function of the shortcomings of humanity, they are usually different. God is more about what is personal and relational.
Some people need a place to turn away from their despair. It might not even be worldly despair, because the world (and the universe) can be as great as you say. Sometimes (a lot of times) it comes from other, more close-to-home places.
We might be more globally connected than ever, but how connected are we to the person we're standing in line with at the megamart? If you are anything like me, the sad answer is "not very". If the space program helps you be closer to that person (and I'm not saying it doesn't for you, it could) then that's great. But God also presents us with another concept of oneness, and a gift of personal evolution in the face of my (or someone else's) own tendency to become immovable and hard, and that is something which can be very comforting in the face of despair.
Jess
Post by: studiojimi on June 07, 2008, 12:17:06 PM
| Bill Mueller wrote on Sat, 07 June 2008 07:45 | ||
!I'm seriously considering replacing JJ with this line. Best Regards, Bill |
are we not God's handiwork
crafted in His spirit image.
"all powerful" and "insecure" simply are NOT handmaidens
Post by: Bill Mueller on June 07, 2008, 12:59:21 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Sat, 07 June 2008 12:17 | ||||
are we not God's handiwork crafted in His spirit image. "all powerful" and "insecure" simply are NOT handmaidens |
Jimi,
Clearly you missed John's irony and humor. He was not talking about GOD, but your self made image of god, created in the form of man, with all our human foibles and frailties. This is the Achilles heal of the fire and brimstone god.
Best Regards,
Bill
Post by: Bill Mueller on June 07, 2008, 01:05:42 PM
| Jessica A. Engle wrote on Sat, 07 June 2008 11:27 |
Bill, It's not a recruitment tool. Jess |
Jess,
Maybe in your very kind heart. But the Church has been using fire and brimstone and scary stories of the end of the world to "convert" "pagans" for two thousand years.
I call that recruitment because it builds power, influence and eventually adds to the coffers.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/06/06/psychology.fear/index.h tml
Best Regards,
Bill
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 07, 2008, 02:21:27 PM
Be assured, I am not interested in recruiting anyone. I am not an evangelist. I am a reporter. People want to know (I think they wanted to know anyway) something of the Book of Revelation and so I told the story. And I wanted to show God is thinking of us no matter what happens in life.
As I said earlier, I don't want anything in Revelation to be true but I fear it is. I don't like fire and brimstone lectures either. It is the "Good News" that is important not damnation. That's what I like to focus on. That's what Christ told us to focus on -- "Go to all nations preaching the good news". That's a personal message of hope given by one person to another, individually.
I also hate those stupid-ass church signs with stupid-ass platitudes. You know like "Fire escape here" and "I don't know why some people change churches. Why does it matter which church you stay away from?"
Bible verses are what touch people's hearts and souls. Such as "Jesus wept" (which I think to be one of the most powerful verses in the book). And "God so loved the (people of the)world that he gave his only son so that whomever believes in him will be saved."
So, in many ways we agree.
Post by: Bill Mueller on June 07, 2008, 03:08:34 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Sat, 07 June 2008 14:21 |
Bill, Be assured, I am not interested in recruiting anyone. I am not an evangelist. I am a reporter. People want to know (I think they wanted to know anyway) something of the Book of Revelation and so I told the story. And I wanted to show God is thinking of us no matter what happens in life. As I said earlier, I don't want anything in Revelation to be true but I fear it is. I don't like fire and brimstone lectures either. It is the "Good News" that is important not damnation. That's what I like to focus on. That's what Christ told us to focus on -- "Go to all nations preaching the good news". That's a personal message of hope given by one person to another, individually. I also hate those stupid-ass church signs with stupid-ass platitudes. You know like "Fire escape here" and "I don't know why some people change churches. Why does it matter which church you stay away from?" Bible verses are what touch people's hearts and souls. Such as "Jesus wept" (which I think to be one of the most powerful verses in the book). And "God so loved the (people of the)world that he gave his only son so that whomever believes in him will be saved." So, in many ways we agree. |
Barry,
Yes of course.
Best Regards,
Bill
Post by: studiojimi on June 07, 2008, 06:12:13 PM
| Bill Mueller wrote on Sat, 07 June 2008 09:59 | ||||||
Jimi, Clearly you missed John's irony and humor. He was not talking about GOD, but your self made image of god, created in the form of man, with all our human foibles and frailties. This is the Achilles heal of the fire and brimstone god. Best Regards, Bill |
why bill
that's what we all have you for
to make sure we don't miss anything!
stay smug!
keep that better than thing going...you wear it so well
your pal
jimmy
Post by: Bill Mueller on June 07, 2008, 06:25:57 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Sat, 07 June 2008 18:12 | ||||||||
why bill that's what we all have you for to make sure we don't miss anything! stay smug! keep that better than thing going...you wear it so well your pal jimmy |
Jimi,
It's going to take a lot more than just me to keep you from missing things.
Bill
Post by: studiojimi on June 07, 2008, 06:57:38 PM
| Bill Mueller wrote on Sat, 07 June 2008 15:25 |
Jimi, It's going to take a lot more than just me to keep you from missing things. Bill |
smuginess
is a character challenge for you bill
you are a classic
condescending at best
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 07, 2008, 07:15:58 PM
Do me a favor please.
The next time you think someone has insulted you, let it go by. Don't respond to it. Turn the other cheek. Not every comment needs a retort.
These battles between you and other people wear me out. I spend a lot of time reading through the posts to understand what's being said by each poster. So I go through yours to see if there is something I need to know. But what I find are running battles and as a reader, that wears me out.
Try it just once. If anyone snipes at you, you're going to let it go. It's my bet that if you don't return fire, then others will stop firing. It's my bet that for every nice thing you say, someone will also say something nice.
If you tell me you can't do this, then I think you're limiting Jesus' power in your life.
Thank you Jimi.
Post by: PRobb on June 07, 2008, 07:27:36 PM
| Bill Mueller wrote on Sat, 07 June 2008 18:25 | ||||||||||
Jimi, It's going to take a lot more than just me to keep you from missing things. Bill |
Nothing to add, but the quotes within quotes within quotes thing start to look pretty cool after a while.
Post by: PRobb on June 07, 2008, 07:29:09 PM
| PRobb wrote on Sat, 07 June 2008 19:27 | ||||||||||||
Nothing to add, but the quotes within quotes within quotes thing start to look pretty cool after a while. |
Doesn't it?
Post by: studiojimi on June 07, 2008, 07:36:10 PM
ooops sorry that's bill's job
Post by: studiojimi on June 07, 2008, 07:37:18 PM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Sat, 07 June 2008 16:15 |
Jimi, Do me a favor please. The next time you think someone has insulted you, let it go by. Don't respond to it. Turn the other cheek. Not every comment needs a retort. These battles between you and other people wear me out. I spend a lot of time reading through the posts to understand what's being said by each poster. So I go through yours to see if there is something I need to know. But what I find are running battles and as a reader, that wears me out. Try it just once. If anyone snipes at you, you're going to let it go. It's my bet that if you don't return fire, then others will stop firing. It's my bet that for every nice thing you say, someone will also say something nice. If you tell me you can't do this, then I think you're limiting Jesus' power in your life. Thank you Jimi. |
i can do all things through the Christ within me
barry
i have an unlimited amount of power
it shows in my work and my relationships with those that really count for something
it's just that i don't happen to care what you think i need to do
i'm quite well equiped to handle making my own interactive decision
with certain extremely smug....over rated provocatives
i do care about what you think in the thread topics
past that...we are free speech expressives enjoying our individual rights
don't tread on mine.
and bill stop trolling me especially the antagonizing
or i'm gonna have my people call your people
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 07, 2008, 09:05:18 PM
Post by: studiojimi on June 07, 2008, 11:11:03 PM
"smugboy" mueller accuses me of being confrontational
he can't see what he thinks he sees if he isn't that himself.
yet he snipes me every chance he gets
along with occasional critical PMs
my PMs to people are most always supportive
but snipage?
no one needs nor deserves that
be clear i'm no victim
but i'll just defend myself as i see fit.
you have to see that if you tell me what you think of me
i certainly have the right to tell you what i think of you
i suggest we treat each other with respect and don't get into judging or tell other what to do...nobody digs that.
it can stop anytime.
i don't need to be sorry that i don't appreciate smug snipers
Post by: Bill Mueller on June 07, 2008, 11:44:29 PM
Stop dogging my posts and this can all stop.
Bill
Post by: danickstr on June 08, 2008, 12:11:43 AM
Post by: maxim on June 08, 2008, 12:35:49 AM
"...but how connected are we to the person we're standing in line with at the megamart? If you are anything like me, the sad answer is "not very"......But God also presents us with another concept of oneness, and a gift of personal evolution ..."
if you have to BELIEVE in it, it is NOT REAL
"god" didn't stop the spanish inquisition or the al-quaeda from feeling very removed from the myriads of individuals whose lives they destroyed (neither did belief in communism, btw)
likewise with the original inhabitants of the country you now inhabit and the slaves kidnapped from africa
"god" did not "evolve" the consciousnesses of the humans involved in these atrocities
the reality is that you are NOT at one with the person next to you in line at k-mart
the sooner one UNDERSTANDS, the sooner one will understand that our connection is a CHOICE (just like it says in the bible, god's gift or curse to humans is "freedom"... no matter how you interpret the book, the moral of the story is you're on your own...)
if you want to feel closer to your neighbour, IMAGINE that you are them
that's what abstract thought is for
what's the point of FAITH?
Post by: malice on June 08, 2008, 12:35:52 AM
malice
Post by: mgod on June 08, 2008, 10:40:27 AM
| maxim wrote on Sat, 07 June 2008 21:35 |
the reality is that you are NOT at one with the person next to you in line at k-mart |
I'm not so sure about that. Lets ask Max Planck:
Post by: mgod on June 08, 2008, 10:41:46 AM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Sat, 07 June 2008 11:21 |
I also hate those stupid-ass church signs with stupid-ass platitudes. You know like "Fire escape here" and "I don't know why some people change churches. Why does it matter which church you stay away from?" |
How can you not love that?
DS
Post by: studiojimi on June 08, 2008, 11:06:47 AM
| mgod wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 07:40 | ||
I'm not so sure about that. Lets ask Max Planck: |
i'm forever protecting the kmart/drugstore/back/convenient store teller when pushy tipes rush them or abuse them.
so i'm not sure i'm one with the person acting like an asshole in the line but certainly for the teller who can't speak back for themselves.
i'm quick to remind the line person that the teller is a child of God. this usually scares them into submission.
occasionally i have to get in a teller's face if they've forgot their company's mission statement.
i have not been arrested yet.
Post by: studiojimi on June 08, 2008, 11:16:19 AM
| mgod wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 07:41 | ||
How can you not love that? DS |
i hate hate.
Sunday, June 08, 2008
LOOK UP!
Today,
I lift my spiritual vision
and
see beyond
life's circumstances and conditions.
Like Abram,
I choose to rise
to a higher level in consciousness,
to look up from the place
where I now stand.
All that I see
is mine.
I see harmony
established in all my relationships.
Everyone is a child of God,
entitled to
all that God is.
I choose to interact
with others on that basis.
It is none of my business
if others choose
to respond to me
in less than loving way.
The law of the universe
holds everyone accountable
for their thoughts, feelings, words,
actions and reactions.
I must be ever mindful
of my responses to others.
Today's response
determines tomorrow's experience.
As I look up,
I am reminded
that there is only One Power
at work in this universe,
the power of God,
always working
for my highest good.
There is no need
for me to be concerned
with anyone else.
I choose
to look up and see
the awesome plan
that God has for me.
I look up!
" . . . Lift up now thine eyes,
and
look from the place where thou are . . . "
Genesis 13:14
Post by: PRobb on June 08, 2008, 11:43:20 AM
The way others write about Christianity makes me very, very glad I have nothing to do with it.
Post by: studiojimi on June 08, 2008, 12:06:33 PM
| PRobb wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 08:43 |
The way some people write about Christianity makes me want to try to understand their points of view. The way others write about Christianity makes me very, very glad I have nothing to do with it. |
that's ok....there is enough opportunity for personal spiritual realization for us to all have our own ergonomic relationship with it in a way that is just right for each individual.
that is the wonderful thing about spirit probb
i get the see/behold the Christ (indwelling perfection) in you whether you choose to cognitivly own it with your conciousness or not.
i'm glad too
so if your glad and i'm glad....we are two winners
(hearing jack bruce singing...i'm so glad i'm so glad)
Post by: danickstr on June 08, 2008, 12:15:31 PM
Post by: Larrchild on June 08, 2008, 12:32:11 PM
Post by: studiojimi on June 08, 2008, 12:36:00 PM
| danickstr wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 09:15 |
Jimi is this new picture a cry for help????????? |
no way
wow....so quick to judge by an avatar....please.
i have a sense of humor about myself
simply
my life is good.
healthy (i did have a cold challenge but it has been rebuked)
biz is good
love life is good
God is good.
larrchild....all i ever do is respond to direct negative personal posts from a few who seem to need to do that.
i had no idea you would say something like you did this morning.
remember this is a thread i initiated on laminins....
you might wanna look at that
i'm thankful.
Post by: malice on June 08, 2008, 12:56:08 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 18:36 |
larrchild....all i ever do is respond to direct negative personal posts from a few who seem to need to do that. i had no idea you would say something like you did this morning. |
Jimi,
There is a growing number of people that seems to be tired of your attitude, including me and larrchild and many more;
you should start wondering why
malice
Post by: CHANCE on June 08, 2008, 02:25:41 PM
Post by: Larrchild on June 08, 2008, 02:46:45 PM
| Quote: |
R/E/P Saloon Social and political stuff that has no business in the other forums. |
What's this say?
Post by: studiojimi on June 08, 2008, 06:15:49 PM
| Larrchild wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 11:46 | ||
What's this say? |
this would fall under the catagory of social.
i forgive you larrchild
Post by: MagnetoSound on June 08, 2008, 07:48:19 PM
| studiojimi wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 23:15 |
i forgive you larrchild |
Now THAT's smug.
Post by: mgod on June 08, 2008, 10:15:37 PM
It does in my church.
| studiojimi wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 09:06 |
i get the see/behold the Christ (indwelling perfection) in you whether you choose to cognitivly own it with your conciousness or not. |
That's a self-negating statement.
| MagnetoSound wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 16:48 | ||
|
Seems like it but it actually has nothing to do at all with Larry. Forgiveness is a process in the mind of the forgiver. So Jimi is just letting us know, no surprise, what's going in in his head here.
DS
Post by: studiojimi on June 08, 2008, 10:55:44 PM
| MagnetoSound wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 16:48 | ||
Now THAT's smug. |
no that's using my real power
effectively for me
God coming up through me...to me...and expessing Himself as me.
and it is ok if you don't understand that.
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 09, 2008, 12:05:09 AM
Seeing the picture in your posting, I was curious to know more about St. Cyril of Alexandria, Egypt.
The Catholic Church is very proud of him as he routed heresy and preserved the faith. One of the first things he did however upon coming into power was to drive the Jews from Alexandria.
Ah... good times I'm sure...
Post by: mgod on June 09, 2008, 12:47:37 AM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 21:05 |
Dan, Seeing the picture in your posting, I was curious to know more about St. Cyril of Alexandria, Egypt. The Catholic Church is very proud of him as he routed heresy and preserved the faith. One of the first things he did however upon coming into power was to drive the Jews from Alexandria. Ah... good times I'm sure... |
Yes, the church which purports to follow Yeshua, so filled with love and peace. But I do believe in lying in bed and shouting oh god.
DS
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 09, 2008, 02:13:14 AM
EDIT: But that means every day at my house must be Sunday...
Post by: maxim on June 09, 2008, 02:48:45 AM
he also incited crowds to burn the library in alexandria
nice guy...
Post by: MagnetoSound on June 09, 2008, 06:18:15 AM
| studiojimi wrote on Mon, 09 June 2008 03:55 | ||||
no that's using my real power effectively for me God coming up through me...to me...and expressing Himself as me. and it is ok if you don't understand that. |
In fact smug, conceited and condescending, all in one go.
Jimi, you claim often that it doesn't bother you what people think of you, yet you spend an AWFUL lot of time telling us about yourself.
You profess an understanding of Karmic Law:
| studiojimi wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 16:16 |
The law of the universe holds everyone accountable for their thoughts, feelings, words, actions and reactions. I must be ever mindful of my responses to others. Today's response determines tomorrow's experience. |
And you preach this to others, yet ignore your own advice.
So many times, you have made crass, insensitive or just plain rude remarks at the expense of other forum members, is it any surprise that your preaching falls on deaf ears?
If people here are telling you openly that they have had enough, perhaps it would be gracious to take the hint.
If you don't want to take this from me, then consider the wise words of a fellow believer:
| Barry Hufker wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 00:15 |
Jimi, Do me a favor please. The next time you think someone has insulted you, let it go by. Don't respond to it. Turn the other cheek. Not every comment needs a retort. These battles between you and other people wear me out. I spend a lot of time reading through the posts to understand what's being said by each poster. So I go through yours to see if there is something I need to know. But what I find are running battles and as a reader, that wears me out. Try it just once. If anyone snipes at you, you're going to let it go. It's my bet that if you don't return fire, then others will stop firing. It's my bet that for every nice thing you say, someone will also say something nice. If you tell me you can't do this, then I think you're limiting Jesus' power in your life. Thank you Jimi. |
Turn the other cheek. Sound familiar, Jimi?
I do my best not to take the bait. Many, many times I hold back from responding to your posts because I do not wish to fan the flames of disagreement, but we don't all share your beliefs and it is not your job to try and convert us here on a pro-audio forum, so, unless we say otherwise, it is polite to make the assumption that we do not wish to be converted.
Please don't take this as a trolling or sniping post, it is not meant that way.
I just want a little peace in these parts, and perhaps a little more time for genuinely 'social and political' topics here in the saloon, of the type that we all enjoy.
In hope,
Dan
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 09, 2008, 10:56:26 AM
| maxim wrote on Mon, 09 June 2008 01:48 |
"The Catholic Church is very proud of him as he routed heresy and preserved the faith." he also incited crowds to burn the library in alexandria nice guy... |
WOW! I had no idea he did that too.
It's amazing what people will do just so they don't have to pay the fine on an overdue book.
Post by: maxim on June 09, 2008, 11:05:53 PM
http://physics.weber.edu/carroll/honors/cosmos.htm
in reality, it seems a few people had a go...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria
Post by: krabapple on June 24, 2009, 04:42:49 PM
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/molecular_biology _for_babbling.php
Here's a potassium channel molecule. Its structure mimics a swastika. Your brain is full of them
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 24, 2009, 04:52:02 PM
Barry
Post by: jetbase on June 24, 2009, 08:08:24 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
The floor of the old Customs House at Circular Quay in Sydney is covered in swastikas IIRC.
Post by: Hallams on June 24, 2009, 11:33:09 PM
| jetbase wrote on Thu, 25 June 2009 10:08 |
The swastika was around long before Nazis. I'm guessing they adopted it for what they felt it already represented. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika The floor of the old Customs House at Circular Quay in Sydney is covered in swastikas IIRC. |
I always thought Sydney had more than it's fair share of Nazis!
Post by: Barry Hufker on June 24, 2009, 11:56:32 PM
Springtime for Hitler and Germany. Winter for Poland and France...
Barry