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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => j. hall => Topic started by: j.hall on October 15, 2007, 12:46:49 PM

Title: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: j.hall on October 15, 2007, 12:46:49 PM
http://www.myspace.com/thrice

self produced, recorded in their house.....

i've never been a thrice fan (keep in mind i haven't heard much either) but this is AWESOME.

i'll  be buying these 4 records!

what do you guys think?

Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: M Carter on October 15, 2007, 01:05:47 PM
I've never really paid attention to them before, but I like it.  
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: iCombs on October 15, 2007, 05:16:48 PM
Their last album (Vhiessu) was a quantum leap forward...probably one of my favorite albums of the last 2 years.

I'm friggin' excited for their new stuff!
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: TheViking on October 15, 2007, 10:43:47 PM
The Illusion of Safety was my favorite record of theirs.   All the more recent stuff is okay but that record is raw and powerful.   This new stuff on their MySpace sounds really awesome.   I dig it.   Amazing band live, too!
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: WallyWest on October 16, 2007, 12:43:31 PM
+1 on the illusion of safety. Deadbolt still kills.

I'm glad they're changing things up, they became predictable for me   from the artist in the ambulance onwards.

The new concept reminds me of the cartoon Captain Planet. sounds great and interesting. Back on form, one might say.
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: Phillip Graham on October 30, 2007, 07:59:13 PM
j.hall wrote on Mon, 15 October 2007 12:46

http://www.myspace.com/thrice

self produced, recorded in their house.....

i've never been a thrice fan (keep in mind i haven't heard much either) but this is AWESOME.

i'll  be buying these 4 records!

what do you guys think?




Hey Jason,

I have been a Thrice fan for a long time.  From a pure sonics perspective "Illusion of Safety" is their best record, mostly because it was only half crushed in mastering.  Their two Island Records releases ("Artist in the Ambulance" and "Vheissu") are hammered horribly.  I suspect that you would find both "Illusion..." and "Artist in the Ambulance" competent exercises in emocore.

"Vheissu," the second of Island records, is more interesting interesting music composition wise, sort of in the same way that Muse stretched their wings on Black Holes and Revelations.  Thrice's core fan base didn't really get that record, and they were probably dropped as a result.

The thing that has always set Thrice apart from their peers, for me, is Dustin's unusually literate lyrical abilities.  Dustin has strong personal religious beliefs (not share by other band members), and consistently brings a tremendous amount of philosophical allusion, allegory, and thinking man's tidbits to his writing.  He writes about belief, struggles in faith, etc. with a level of insight and clarity that the folks who write supposedly religious music could learn from.  Thrice liners are definitely worth reading if you are in a mood to think.

I think the band has done a great job for a self-produced/recorded/mixed project.  Teppei is not Bob Clearmountain, but I think he should be proud of his mix efforts on the two released discs (more so on Water).

I strongly suggest going to see Thrice live.  They put on a really solid live show.  The have their own IEM monitor rack that they run themselves from the stage, as a live mixer/system tech, I find that quite impressive!  They are currently on tour with Brand New.  BN's monitor engineer is a friend of mine, and he says the tour is going great so far.  Given that BN has also moved pretty far from their origins, it seems an appropriate combination.

Dustin Kensrue, Thrice's lead singer, also has released a decent side project under his own name that is in the vein of Springsteen or Ryan Adams.  I suspect the Earth record will be a lot like this (mostly acoustic blues/roots rock).

I personally will be very curious to see what the typical fresh-faced, Warped Tour-lovin' Thrice fan will make of having 4 CDs that span such a diverse swath of music, especially when only one of those discs will be the heavier sound these guys have built their career on.
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: j.hall on October 31, 2007, 04:08:16 PM
if you agree or not with his personal beliefs, it's very hard to argue that he is not a brilliant lyricist.

i really like his use of imagery, yet he leaves little doubt in your mind as to what exactly he's trying to say.

Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: Michael Petkau on December 11, 2007, 07:52:11 PM
Easily the best (only?) and most exploratory band to come out of the whole emo crapfest.  I did a demo for a local screamo band a couple years ago, and they turned me onto them before Vheissu, but that album sold me more than anything previous.

Looking forward to seeing them live next month.
Title: Re: Thrice--Disk 3+4 coming the 15th
Post by: Phillip Graham on April 04, 2008, 02:00:33 PM
Resurrecting this old thread to remind about the release of the two new Thrice discs.

Couple of songs (low quality rips) from earth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_3-fKC9ls8&feature=relat ed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK4MVak5vTA&feature=relat ed

and one from air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWIjMnnHAn0

My fanboi work done, back to lurking Smile
Title: Re: Thrice--Disk 3+4 coming the 15th
Post by: T. Mueller on April 06, 2008, 07:38:35 PM
Just bought it today.  Tonally awesome.  Amazing punch, depth... all the stereotypical phrasings.  That last track on Fire is haunting.

[edit] Just finished Water, too, and I agree with the previous comment.  The mix is more subtle, more beautiful; there's more of a space and soundscape, but it's a function of the type of music from which the concept is attacking on Water.  Fire's very straightforward, but has enough subtleties to remain interesting, in my opinon.  Water is more haunting... more beautiful.

I'm gonna listen again. Smile
Title: Re: Thrice--Disk 3+4 coming the 15th
Post by: Phillip Graham on April 08, 2008, 04:26:53 PM
T. Mueller wrote on Sun, 06 April 2008 19:38

Just bought it today.  Tonally awesome.  Amazing punch, depth... all the stereotypical phrasings.  That last track on Fire is haunting.


Huh, I thought the mixing was a pretty weak link on this record, though I do like the bass tones.

To each their own...
Title: Re: Thrice--Disk 3+4 coming the 15th
Post by: j.hall on April 09, 2008, 03:03:01 PM
the more i listen to Fire, the more is sounds mid rangey and flat.

buss compression is out of control.
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: T. Mueller on April 09, 2008, 04:02:24 PM
I'm sure it's because I've been listening to significantly different genres lately.  Nothing with electrics, nothing close to this sound.

That and inexperience.  No worries.  Just been a while since I bought a record I liked.  Maybe I'm projecting.
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: grantis on April 09, 2008, 10:22:57 PM
Aside from Firebreather, I agree with the "flat and midrangy".

i don't notice the bus comp being out of control except on Backdraft.  

when i sing along to the chorus of that song, i'm more inclined to sing "sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh"

Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: Phillip Graham on April 10, 2008, 10:58:44 AM
T. Mueller wrote on Wed, 09 April 2008 16:02

I'm sure it's because I've been listening to significantly different genres lately.  Nothing with electrics, nothing close to this sound.

That and inexperience.  No worries.  Just been a while since I bought a record I liked.  Maybe I'm projecting.



No worries mate,

Not trying to get down on you!  I really enjoy the band and their music.  Water is much better mixed, and the early indications of the new records is better sonics.

Fire goes to show that being Andy Wallace, Rich Costey, or CLA takes some real chops behind the board.  It also shows that Teppei probably did the mixes with his monitors too loud.  Raphson Dodson curves will get you every time!

PS The buss comp drives me crazy on Backdraft...

PPS  Midrangey records are a good examples of why the RP200 style calibration of mix levels, ala Bob Katz, is such a good idea.
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: j.hall on April 10, 2008, 05:53:16 PM
hard rock is the hardest genre to mix well, IMO.
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: Phillip Graham on April 11, 2008, 12:00:40 AM
So, I downloaded the leak today, real thing comes Tuesday.

Volumes 3 and 4 are better than the first two, I would say sonically and otherwise.  Earth sounds like it was entirely recorded in the same space.

"As The Crow Flies" and "The Lion and the Wolf" are really going to confuse the emo kiddies...

Make sure to listen to Earth last.  It ends with a brilliant idea, if one not executed perfectly.
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: grantis on April 11, 2008, 12:01:22 AM
Quote:

hard rock is the hardest genre to mix well, IMO.


now, i've pondered this before.  why is that?  is it because there's such a preconception of what hard rock SHOULD sound like?  

i dunno.
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: grantis on April 11, 2008, 12:02:24 AM
Quote:

So, I downloaded the leak today, real thing comes Tuesday.


ahhh!  i'm excited!

what styles are they?
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: Phillip Graham on April 11, 2008, 12:18:27 AM
grant richard wrote on Fri, 11 April 2008 00:02

Quote:

So, I downloaded the leak today, real thing comes Tuesday.


ahhh!  i'm excited!

what styles are they?


Air is kind of random,  It opens with a song (Broken Lungs) that would have fit well on Vheissu, followed by this Rhodes tinged powerpop number (including handclaps!).  The third song would fit on a Sigur Ros or Explosions in the Sky record.

Daedulus, the 4th song, is the lyrical counterpoint to "Melting Point of Wax" on Artist in the Ambulance.  Its fairly heavy with a bit of alt-country twang (ala "The Earth Will Shake" on Vheissu).

Air finishes with a sort of acoustic chamber pop song, and an electronic number (Silver Wings) that would fit ok on Kid A, or on Water.

Earth is variations on bluesy/jazzy roots rock.  There is a little mandolin, upright piano, accordion.  It ends with a piano + layered vocal track with a twist at the end that fits the song very well.

Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: grantis on April 11, 2008, 12:23:13 AM
Quote:

Earth is variations on bluesy/jazzy roots rock. There is a little mandolin, upright piano, accordion. It ends with a piano + layered vocal track with a twist at the end that fits the song very well.



can't wait!
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: Phillip Graham on April 11, 2008, 11:50:53 AM
grant richard wrote on Fri, 11 April 2008 00:01

Quote:

hard rock is the hardest genre to mix well, IMO.


now, i've pondered this before.  why is that?  is it because there's such a preconception of what hard rock SHOULD sound like?  

i dunno.


I think hard rock does have some preconceptions about what the sounds should be like.  Certainly stuff should be "big."  Stuff is usually pretty dry, too.

Hard rock is the classic 10lbs of stuff in a 5lb bag, in terms of sonic landscape.  Especially these days as band try to throw in crazy instruments on top of the wall of guitars.

Its interesting that some of the best regarded hard rock records (e.g. RATM, Soundgarden, AC/DC) also tend to be more sparely arranged.

I suppose it at least partly goes back to Mutt Lang and AC/DC, where the kick drum became a primary player in the mix.  Its been more of everything ever since.  I think the Metallica Black album was another turning point, or at least is the big record I am aware of, that signaled the end of 80's hair metal gated cheeseverbiness.

Having watched a good friend really learn how to mix modern hard rock (see http://www.myspace.com/afterthetragedy or http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewpro file&friendid=2744699) over the course of a couple of years, I have picked up a lot of insights for my live sound work, and about mixing this stuff in general.

I think the two biggest lessons are: 1. the raw tones have to be really solid, and smooth; 2. make everything fit in the mix.  If it takes a 15dB cut a sixth octave wide to remove a problem, then do it.  Number 2 feeds number 1, if the raw tones aren't balanced they don't survive such drastic manipulation.

Another lesson, I would say, is that compressor release times really matter in hard rock.  Attacks are almost always going from "fast" to "very fast" in this stuff, so the release envelope has a huge effect on the tone/bounce/movement of instruments in the track.

My friend's mastering engineer of choice also really likes an extra 5dB'ish of snare to play with in the raw mix, but that is not universal by any means.  The snare in the pre-master mixes noted above will plaster your eyeballs into your skull.

Would love to hear J's thoughts on this...
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: T. Mueller on April 11, 2008, 12:05:03 PM
Phillip Graham wrote on Thu, 10 April 2008 23:18

grant richard wrote on Fri, 11 April 2008 00:02

Quote:

So, I downloaded the leak today, real thing comes Tuesday.


ahhh!  i'm excited!

what styles are they?


Air finishes with a sort of acoustic chamber pop song, and an electronic number (Silver Wings) that would fit ok on Kid A, or on Water.





That first track off of Water might as well have had the organ/electric piano part from Everything in Its Right Place.  Anyone else notice that?
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: j.hall on April 11, 2008, 01:28:05 PM
i think the game of "what it should sound like" is not relevant to the difficulty level of mixing hard rock well.

i think it all boils down to density.  in hard rock, EVERY element is supposed to be HUGE and in your face.

the hardest thing to get right is the guitars.  as soon as they arrive in the mix they start ruining everything else.  not only do they require perfect tonal balance, but they have to be loud.  both things just wreck a mix.

Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: Phillip Graham on April 12, 2008, 12:35:42 PM
grant richard wrote on Fri, 11 April 2008 00:23

Quote:

Earth is variations on bluesy/jazzy roots rock. There is a little mandolin, upright piano, accordion. It ends with a piano + layered vocal track with a twist at the end that fits the song very well.



can't wait!


Both 3 and 4 are now streaming on the thrice myspace page, if you can suffer the awful myspace player audio...

http://www.myspace.com/thrice
Title: Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
Post by: Daedalus on April 24, 2008, 04:07:16 PM
I'm going check them out tomorrow night with Circa Survive. I bought both cd's from the alchemy index a few days ago to get prepared for the show. I love the diversity of songs presented. I do agree that Fire is a bit midrangy, nonetheless it still rocks hard. Riley's drum patterns and tone are also exceptional on fire.