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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Budget? Budget? We Don't Got No Steekin' Budjet => Topic started by: josh on September 09, 2005, 08:53:18 AM

Title: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 09, 2005, 08:53:18 AM
Got a pair of KEL HM-1 "mid" diaphragm cardiod condenser mics about a year ago (when they first came out).  So far I haven't done a lot of recording with them but last night we did some fingerstyle guitar stuff and the KEL was the king, compared with AT4041, Behringer ECM8000 (my usual go-to acoustic guitar mic).  AT4041 was way too bright, and the Behringer sounded good but kind of dull and lifeless compared with the KEL.

This has the KEL HM-1 about a foot away from the 12th fret of the guitar, panned slightly left, and the "room" mic is about 4 feet away to the right of the guitarist (modified Oktava MK-219) it's panned slightly right.  This is with my Yamaha PM1000 pres, no processing.

http://prophetsandpoets.com/josh/mp3/KEL_Okt_Acoustic.mp3

Several months ago we did a quick & dirty drum mic test with KELs as overheads, here's the MP3 of the raw overheads-only of the kit, RAMSA DA-7 pres and a not-great room (please excuse the crappy drummer):

http://prophetsandpoets.com/josh/mp3/HM1_drum_sample.mp3

Since moving into the studio with the big room, and getting everything installed including the rockin Yamaha PM1000 pres all wired in, we've done a fair amount of drum recording with the HM-1's as overheads and other mics on the kit, and it's hard to argue that it's not our best choice for rock drums.  Seems like no matter what we put this mic on, it ends up being our pick, even though we've only tried it a limited number of times.

Worth a look for sure.

Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: hargerst on September 10, 2005, 08:15:53 AM
Overload!!  Danger, Will Robinson!!

There's just too much stuff on the market.  I can't keep up.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: digibird on September 11, 2005, 12:39:50 AM
hargerst wrote on Sat, 10 September 2005 13:15

Overload!!  Danger, Will Robinson!!

There's just too much stuff on the market.  I can't keep up.


At $99 each (includes shipping), the KEL HM-1 is one you can afford to keep up with:

http://www.kelaudio.com/hm1.html

I received a pair in the mail just a few days ago and am looking foward to using them in the next few days.  I'll report back what I learn/hear.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: covert on September 11, 2005, 03:21:25 AM
I'd be really curious to hear a comparison with the AT2020, which seems to have a similar design philosophy.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: hargerst on September 11, 2005, 11:01:18 AM
digibird wrote on Sat, 10 September 2005 23:39

hargerst wrote on Sat, 10 September 2005 13:15

Overload!!  Danger, Will Robinson!!

There's just too much stuff on the market.  I can't keep up.


At $99 each (includes shipping), the KEL HM-1 is one you can afford to keep up with:

http://www.kelaudio.com/hm1.html

I received a pair in the mail just a few days ago and am looking foward to using them in the next few days.  I'll report back what I learn/hear.

Gotta admit; it looks interesting.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Trumpetman2 on September 12, 2005, 07:20:07 AM
PLEASE try it on trumpet and post a sound clip....I have bought WAY too many mics for trumpet based on "rave reviews" and then they weren't that impressive on trumpet.. and, I ran the mics thru good mic pres (Grace Design 101, BG-1{DECCA}, MP-20,Ward-Beck M470D, and others..). Shocked
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Jack Schitt on September 12, 2005, 11:04:10 AM
covert wrote on Sun, 11 September 2005 03:21

I'd be really curious to hear a comparison with the AT2020, which seems to have a similar design philosophy.


I'm not sure they are that close. I have a pair of HM-1's and they very clearly were not designed with a presence peak in mind and use a much smaller diaghram than the 2020.  I haven't had a chance to try the 2020 but what I have read seems to indicate it does have a slight rise on the top end.

They both seem to get pretty good press and from 1st hand experience I think the HM-1's are a nice mic period, not just for the money. They tell you right in the manual it isn't a go to mic for everything and it isn't. That said, I will have mine for years to come.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: covert on September 13, 2005, 07:01:53 AM
Denny W. wrote on Mon, 12 September 2005 11:04

covert wrote on Sun, 11 September 2005 03:21

I'd be really curious to hear a comparison with the AT2020, which seems to have a similar design philosophy.


I'm not sure they are that close. I have a pair of HM-1's and they very clearly were not designed with a presence peak in mind and use a much smaller diaghram than the 2020.  I haven't had a chance to try the 2020 but what I have read seems to indicate it does have a slight rise on the top end.

They both seem to get pretty good press and from 1st hand experience I think the HM-1's are a nice mic period, not just for the money. They tell you right in the manual it isn't a go to mic for everything and it isn't. That said, I will have mine for years to come.



I'm not sure they are at all close.  What I said was similar design philosophy, by which Imeant low cost and not hyped highs.  Add to that side address and some small details.  My recollection is also that both mics have capsule diameters in the mid size range, although AT calls theirs lrge and KEL calls theirs small.  As a reference, look at the MXL 990/991, which have teh same size capsule, but the 990 gets called large and the 991 small.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 13, 2005, 12:30:23 PM
I'll see if I can talk my coworker into bringing in his trumpet.  He's not a great trumpet player so it'll take some coaxing to get him to play it and let me record it.

These mics are darker than your standard condenser.  Not as lush/warm/euphonic dark as my modded MK-219's but more like a good small-diaphragm mic without the peakiness.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: luckybastard on September 13, 2005, 02:13:32 PM
josh i'm curious, what kind of mods were done on your 219's and what kind of pres do you use them through?
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 13, 2005, 02:51:08 PM
luckybastard wrote on Tue, 13 September 2005 19:13

josh i'm curious, what kind of mods were done on your 219's and what kind of pres do you use them through?


I did the "grille mod" on both of them (cut and file out the aluminum cross bars on the grille, ground the mesh grille with copper tape), which removes pretty much all of the "boxy" sound of the mics.  I removed the "resonator" on one of them (black plastic thingy on the diaphragm), and that mic became immensely more detailed and lush in the midrange... and darker.

I can recommend the grille mod since other than being kind of labor-intensive, it's not exactly rocket science and removes the one most obnoxious flaw of the MK-219s.  

The resonator mod, however, is not exactly for the faint of heart.  You'd better have a steady hand, a clean environment, patience and the right size tools.  Easiest/best way to do it is to remove the screws holding the resonator on, then carefully cut the plastic resonator so that it can be removed from the center-electrode wire without removing the electrode screw.  I managed to ding the diaphragm on mine, and I am very used to working on surface mount stuff under a stereoscope.  I guess that adds character.  It at least added a dent.  Anyway, the mic sounds fantastic and I am always reaching for it, but it makes recordings that easily get buried in a mix with busy top end.

I am really tempted to buy another couple of these mics if they go on a 2/$99 deal at GC again and do all the mods, plus epoxy the holes in the backplate to make them omnis.  Back in the day, before Guitar Center, these were well-regarded mics and deservedly so.  Nowadays it's so popular to knock all the "cheap chinese knock offs" that the Russian standby mics get caught up in the bad press.  Well I guess some folks say the QC is iffy or was on some Oktava mics, but IMHO, these things are right in there with the best investments I've made.  The one with the resonator still on it just loves guitar cabinets.


Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 13, 2005, 03:12:45 PM
luckybastard wrote on Tue, 13 September 2005 19:13

what kind of pres do you use them through?


Yamaha PM-1000 console strips.

I haven't tried them with anything else, but we also have a Drawmer 1960 (whose mic pre doesn't sound nearly as good as the Yamahas).
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Trumpetman2 on September 14, 2005, 05:55:25 AM
JOSH:  Thanks for your interest on the Kel/trumpet test.  Incidentally, I have an Oktava M-319; are the modifications you talk about applicable to this one too?  I am ABSOLUTELY "non-technical" so I wouldn't dream of doing it, but maybe you could do it for a fee....?  Or lead me to someone who would...Let me know. Shocked
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 14, 2005, 06:27:11 AM
Trumpetman2 wrote on Wed, 14 September 2005 10:55

JOSH:  Thanks for your interest on the Kel/trumpet test.  Incidentally, I have an Oktava M-319; are the modifications you talk about applicable to this one too?  I am ABSOLUTELY "non-technical" so I wouldn't dream of doing it, but maybe you could do it for a fee....?  Or lead me to someone who would...Let me know. Shocked



319 body/grille is the only difference from the 219.  I think the grille issue is largely a non-issue on the 319 but I don't have any direct experience.  You could remove the resonator tho.  Like I said it's tricky (not technically tricky, but steady-hand-delicate tricky).

Pretty sure I'm not up for doing them for a fee.  Maybe someday Smile  At the moment, I don't have a source for replacement capsules in the event I ding yours like I did mine Smile

Dan frowned pretty hard at my suggestion that he play some trumpet on this tune we're working on.  I'll see if I can coax him.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Trumpetman2 on September 14, 2005, 07:59:57 AM
Josh:  Got it, I might just try it myself.  Question though, how does the moded 219 compare to the Kel?  Heck, might be better to just get a Kel for a "C note"!!! Smile
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 14, 2005, 08:32:05 AM
KEL HM-1 is day and night different mic from the modified MK-219.

KEL:  detailed, articulate, unhyped, naturally smooth & full sounding ... best one-word description:  "concrete"

MI-219 with mods:  dark, lush, euphonic, colored ... best one-word description: "voluptuous"

The KEL is a balanced meal.  The Oktava is an indulgent dessert.

You could record nearly every track on the record with the KEL.  You had better only use the Oktava once.

Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: luckybastard on September 14, 2005, 09:34:36 AM
I have already done the grill mod on one of my 219's. i guess my next question is how do i get into the body to take a look-see at these resonators to see if i am capable of getting them off. the only technical experience i have is putting in some guitar pickups and building a hamptone tube pre. also do you know how to dampen the body so i don't get the "boink" sound when it's moved?
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 14, 2005, 09:53:17 AM
luckybastard wrote on Wed, 14 September 2005 14:34

I have already done the grill mod on one of my 219's. i guess my next question is how do i get into the body to take a look-see at these resonators to see if i am capable of getting them off.



Body comes apart into two halves.  Take the top half off (unscrew the "base" that holds it to the stand adapter, remove the one screw that holds the "top" on).  Now you will be staring at the capsule.  You can remove the PCB upon which the capsule is mounted by taking out the little standoff IIRC, then you will have the mic in three pieces:  two sides of the case, and the guts.  I imagine to do the grillemod, you had to disassemble it like this.

The "resonator" is the black or gray plastic round thingy on the capsule secured around the edges with a coupla teeny screws.  It has holes in it that are actually kind of like tuned ports to resonate certain frequencies and make the mic a little brighter at the expense of transient response and phase detail I'd guess.

The problem is that the center electrode wire (with a little lug attached to a screw in the center of the diaphragm) runs through the hole in the middle of the resonator.  So you can remove the little screws that hold the resonator on, and then it will be loose but still can't be removed with the wire running through it (the wire obviously holds it on... will be very obvious once the mic's apart).  So you have to either (a) remove the screw securing the center electrode from the diaphragm, slip the resonator off, and then reinstall the screw/electrode [totally NOT recommended], (b) unsolder the wire where that electrode attaches to the circuit board, slip the resonator off, and re-solder it back [slightly more recommended], or (c) use a wire cutter to snip the resonator to bits so it can be removed from the wire without removing either end of the wire.

I don't remember if there is a resonator on both sides of the capsule or not.  If there is, then the rear one is easy to remove, there is no electrode to take off, just screws.

Put the screws back where they came from after you remove the resonator.  Don't poke the screwdriver through the diaphragm.  This is a whole lot harder than you think.  flat-head screwdriver slips out of those slots in the screws very easily!

Quote:

also do you know how to dampen the body so i don't get the "boink" sound when it's moved?


yes, jam it in one of these http://tensimount.com/

actually it won't dampen the body, just lessen the odds of it being moved.  Some folks have put silicone caulk inside the mic body to dampen it.  The grille mod will most likely fix the "ding" since it's the ringing of the grille bars that is so easily picked up by the mic capsule.  Easiest thing to do is just mechanically isolate the mic while it's in use with a shock mount.  A MK-219 just barely fits in a tensimount.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: luckybastard on September 14, 2005, 10:37:20 AM
thanks for the info. now having done the resonator mod to one and having the other still with it on, which is more suitable as a vocal mic and with what kinds of voices. also what else is the resonator modded one good for? the only quality pre i have is the hamptone tube pre. i rarely use the pres on my mbox.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: $a1Ty on September 14, 2005, 06:52:45 PM
digibird wrote on Sun, 11 September 2005 14:39

At $99 each (includes shipping), the KEL HM-1 is one you can afford to keep up with:

http://www.kelaudio.com/hm1.html

I received a pair in the mail just a few days ago and am looking foward to using them in the next few days.  I'll report back what I learn/hear.

hey thanks for samples of this mic, love it, is that price there for a pair or just an individual mic?

and you wouldnt happen to know if they are available in australia anywhere lol
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Jack Schitt on September 14, 2005, 07:02:19 PM
$a1Ty wrote on Wed, 14 September 2005 18:52

digibird wrote on Sun, 11 September 2005 14:39

At $99 each (includes shipping), the KEL HM-1 is one you can afford to keep up with:

http://www.kelaudio.com/hm1.html

I received a pair in the mail just a few days ago and am looking foward to using them in the next few days.  I'll report back what I learn/hear.

hey thanks for samples of this mic, love it, is that price there for a pair or just an individual mic?

and you wouldnt happen to know if they are available in australia anywhere lol



They are $99 a piece shipping included and for a $10 per mic premium will ship you a matched pair including freq graphs. $218 for a matched pair of a mics that good is pretty sweet. I think there may be a premium for international shipping of I believe $20 per mic but check the website to confirm

Last I looked they are only available via the website.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: $a1Ty on September 15, 2005, 01:55:49 AM
yeah i took a look bit extra for international, as long as i dont have to pay tax, i'm certainly gonna pick up a matched pair
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 15, 2005, 06:46:06 AM
luckybastard wrote on Wed, 14 September 2005 15:37

thanks for the info. now having done the resonator mod to one and having the other still with it on, which is more suitable as a vocal mic and with what kinds of voices. also what else is the resonator modded one good for?


I almost never use these for vocal tracks, in fact I like them on guitar cabs better.

But obviously the resonator-mod mic is better whenever you just want a darker, more lush kind of sound, when you have an uncrowded mix.  The other mic is just brighter and less intimate sounding, so it works in a louder mix.  Really I don't have all that much experience with them on vocals.  Might change soon tho.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Kurt Foster on September 19, 2005, 01:13:10 PM
I got a matched pair of HM-1s when they first hit the market and I 've had a chance to live with them for a while now. I think they sound great on guitar amps. They give you all the body and punch without sounding fizzy or with the high end crackle that happens a lot when recording guitar amps.

I also have tried the HM-1 alongside a U87ai on some vocal tracks and to be honest there was more in common than different between the two tracks.

KEL does these mics at $99 each shipping included and they offer a 21 day return policy, no questions asked. If you by a single and decide later you want it matched with another one, they will do that for a small fee.

Harvey, if you want, I would be happy to send you the pair I have for you to check out for a while .. BUT I want them back!  ... drop a line to me .. I think you have my email addy ...
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: hargerst on September 19, 2005, 03:55:42 PM
Hey, good to see you here, Kurt.  (For those of you who don't know who Kurt is, he usta run some excellent forums and did reviews over at another place).

Yeah, I'd like to give them a try when you have a chance.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 19, 2005, 04:27:44 PM
Yes I like them a lot on guitar cabinets too but have not tried them for vocals.

We did a session with them on toms and they were all that  ...  PM me if you wanna hear it.  Coupla days later we did another session with standby MD-421's on toms and the HM-1's are far and away my favorite.

Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Kurt Foster on September 19, 2005, 05:25:45 PM
hargerst wrote on Mon, 19 September 2005 12:55

Hey, good to see you here, Kurt.  (For those of you who don't know who Kurt is, he runs some excellent forums and does reviews over at (deleted)  Yeah, I'd like to give them a try when you have a chance.


Harvey,
Thanks for the welcome. I am no longer affiliated with RO. The members there are great but ....... Rolling Eyes (nuff' said!).

You will be seeing more of me in these parts now ... I will not be contributing to RO any longer.

I'll contact you via e mail and we can work out getting you the mics to try out. I think I'll be sending a couple of my favorite mic pres to Fletcher to check out as well ...  these are all manufacturers who have been very cool with me so I like to give them a bump when the opportunity arises. I know you will love the HM-1s when you get to use them.  

Kurt
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 22, 2005, 04:59:04 PM
HM-1's on drum overheads

http://www.prophetsandpoets.com/josh/mp3/spy.mp3
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Jack Schitt on September 22, 2005, 05:47:33 PM
josh wrote on Thu, 22 September 2005 16:59

HM-1's on drum overheads

http://www.prophetsandpoets.com/josh/mp3/spy.mp3



I haven't had a chance to try the Kel's on OH's yet.

What other mics are used on the kit? Were the kels used on the percussion as well?
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 22, 2005, 05:59:15 PM
Denny W. wrote on Thu, 22 September 2005 22:47

josh wrote on Thu, 22 September 2005 16:59

HM-1's on drum overheads

http://www.prophetsandpoets.com/josh/mp3/spy.mp3



I haven't had a chance to try the Kel's on OH's yet.

What other mics are used on the kit? Were the kels used on the percussion as well?



kick:  MD-421 in the hole in the front head
snare: SM57
floor tom (it's a 13x13): MD-421
we had an SM57 on the hi-hat but I don't know if it made it into the mix.
no mic on the rack tom, just OH's and bleed into the snare mic.

the "other percussion" is a little pair of mini-bongos about 2-3" in diameter, you play them with your fingers.  I wasn't there when it was recorded so I don't know what he used to record it, but my guess would have to be either an SM57 or a KSM32.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Frob on September 25, 2005, 05:44:25 PM
i have use the HM1s on manny applications. i have never been disappointed with the sound. that dosent meant that i think there best for every thing, but they are worthy mics, and with there price should be in any one closet. they are fantastic on cabs and are my favorite to use on toms now. i do have one complaint, when used on toms you do need to quiet the case' with some gaffers tape. mine do rattle a litle bit.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: R Geoff Ruby on September 26, 2005, 12:38:34 PM
How's the off axis rejection?

I'm often recording in baaaaaaaad rooms, so this is very important to me.

Thanks,
Geoff Ruby
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Trumpetman2 on September 27, 2005, 09:10:40 AM
Josh:  Tried to open the Oktava m319...does NOT open the same as the 219 at all...in fact, I removed the 4 screws surrounding the grille and nothing happened, the grill does not come off.  So much for modding the 319 Shocked Anyone taken the grill off of one of these...?  Help!
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 27, 2005, 09:53:32 AM
I wouldn't think an Oktava MK-319 would open up like a 219, it's a completely different mic body.

Surely someone has had one open.  Just look at the thing and figure it out Smile

Internally, it's the same as a 219.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: mryan on September 27, 2005, 12:57:31 PM
To open up a 319 remove the four screws around the grill, the grill
then will come off, just pull up, be careful the capsule is now exposed, there is a screw at the bottom that should be removed, and then the four screws on the plate for the switches. Now before you try to remove the internal works you have to unscrew the 2 screws on the little board attached to the switch plate. be very careful, the wires are easy to break. Now slide the circuit board back in the housing and carefully side the whole assembly  up and out.

I like to replace all the caps in the electrolytics in the amp with
better quality caps, also the ceramic cap used between the capsule and the fet with film or silver mica caps.

the final thing that one might do is rebias the fet.

Marty

Oh, and while the circuit is the same as a 219, the layout on the board is very different.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: R Geoff Ruby on September 27, 2005, 03:22:09 PM
One more question about the KEL. Does it have any sonic similarity at all to other fairly neutral condenser mics - I'm thinking in particular about the AT 4047 and the Shure KSM line.

Thanks,
Geoff Ruby
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Kurt Foster on September 27, 2005, 05:04:04 PM
Geoff,
The only direct comparison I have made myself was against a U87ai on male vocal on a blues track.

I placed the U87 and the HM-1 side by side at the same distance as close together as I possible. They both shared the same popper stopper and I ran them through a pair of Sebatron vmp pres.

I really had a difficult time telling the difference between the 2 tracks in that particular instance. Not exactly the same but more than not. If it were a blind test, I doubt I could pick out which was which. I would be curious to see what the results would be if someone else did the same comparison.

One thing I can assure you of ... the HM-1 is not your typical Chinese copy mic ... It is a unique design that fills it's own niche'.

K.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Trumpetman2 on September 27, 2005, 07:23:05 PM
Marty:  Thanks, I'll give the procedure a try! Very Happy
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 28, 2005, 07:59:35 AM
R Geoff Ruby wrote on Tue, 27 September 2005 20:22

One more question about the KEL. Does it have any sonic similarity at all to other fairly neutral condenser mics - I'm thinking in particular about the AT 4047 and the Shure KSM line.

Thanks,
Geoff Ruby


never tried a 4047 but we also have KSM32s.  My initial take is that the KSMs are more "hissy" sounding (more top end? more distorted top end?  ??), but only really compared them as drum overheads.  The KELs have a more meaty midrange than the KSMs.  Dunno about vocals or anything else.

The more we use the KELs though, the more we like them.

Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Trumpetman2 on September 28, 2005, 12:52:16 PM
Josh and Marty:

SUCCESS! Removed the black "thingy" on the M-319; a very easy chore on the 319.  IT SOUNDS AMAZING!  Much more "open" and "lush."  Will try it on more things tonight (after work).  Marty: do you think doing those other upgrades you mention will make it even better?  If so, would you be interested in doing it for a fee?  Let me know.... Very Happy
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: luckybastard on September 28, 2005, 01:02:52 PM
hey trumpetman. i did it to my 219. i am going home to try it on vocals tonight. by the way, i grew up in fort washington. went to friendly hs. i live in se dc now...
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: mryan on September 28, 2005, 02:24:01 PM
Trumpetman2 wrote on Wed, 28 September 2005 17:52

Josh and Marty:

SUCCESS! Removed the black "thingy" on the M-319; a very easy chore on the 319.  IT SOUNDS AMAZING!  Much more "open" and "lush."  Will try it on more things tonight (after work).  Marty: do you think doing those other upgrades you mention will make it even better?  If so, would you be interested in doing it for a fee?  Let me know.... Very Happy


Changing the caps has bigger improvement is sound than the resonator on the capsule in my mind. High quality caps will open up the sound and improve the sense of detail and lushness.

I would rather not have people sending me their mics, changing the caps is very easy, just use very good quality ones of appropriate value, any local tech worth a damn could do it.  I recommend nichicon from Micheal Percy Audio.

Marty
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Trumpetman2 on September 28, 2005, 02:32:56 PM
Marty:  Thanks again.  I'll look into that.

TO LB- Neat!  I love this area, specially right by the river...very nice living.  What kind of music do you record in your studio?  What is your setup?
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on September 28, 2005, 03:26:21 PM
you know i will also note that capacitors all sound different.  they will CHANGE the sound a lot, potentially.  and they should be real easy to change out.

i guess i should do that to mine too Smile  cheap parts.  $20 will do wonders in capacitors.  the mic i have that sounds most like it needs new caps is my Studio Projects B1.

Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: luckybastard on September 28, 2005, 03:37:31 PM
i have a hip-hop/r&b setup. i use several budget mics(57's, ev 630, 219's, mc012's) through a hamptone tube pre into an mbox. it's adequate right now because most of the stuff i do is midi. the only thing i record in the "real world" is vocals and some guitar and bass.

for my rock band's recordings we use studio out in cheverly which has a protools tdm setup with industry standard pres and such...
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Trumpetman2 on September 28, 2005, 03:42:08 PM
josh wrote on Wed, 28 September 2005 15:26

you know i will also note that capacitors all sound different.  they will CHANGE the sound a lot, potentially.  and they should be real easy to change out.

i guess i should do that to mine too Smile  cheap parts.  $20 will do wonders in capacitors.  the mic i have that sounds most like it needs new caps is my Studio Projects B1.




Where are the capacitors and do you just unsolder the old and solder the new?
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Trumpetman2 on September 30, 2005, 07:29:45 AM
Calling on LB's generosity again......What are the values/ratings (?) of the capacitors on the M-319?  I tried ordering some and was asked that.  Would it say it on the stock ones?  Is there a better/higher value (NOT talking about price) that would be better?  I could probably unsolder/solder the new ones but other than that I have no idea of what I'm doing.....Help! Shocked
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Trumpetman2 on September 30, 2005, 07:44:26 AM
 Embarassed SORRY, I MEANT TO SAY "MARTY" not LB!!! Embarassed
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: mryan on September 30, 2005, 09:23:04 AM
I will try to find my schematic, it will have the proper values on it, and get back to you.

Marty
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: mryan on September 30, 2005, 09:46:25 AM
Ok, the schematic shows 3 1uf at 160v caps, 63v rating would be sufficiant for the circuit and easier to find, and 1 47uf at 10v, any voltage rating 10v and above will be fine. Oh, and the cap between the capsule and the fet is a 680pf, you could use a .001 with no problem.

Marty
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Trumpetman2 on September 30, 2005, 10:52:49 AM
 Smile THANK YOU!
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: R Geoff Ruby on October 24, 2005, 06:03:50 PM
Just picked up a matched pair of the Kels.

I have a question about the frequency plot. They're relatively even from mic to mic, but it looks nothing like the plot posted on their website. The plot on the web is pretty darn flat. My mics have a smiley-face curve. Pretty flat above 2 kHz, about 4 db up from 30 to 100, gradually declining to 0 around 400 Hz. Between 400 and 1500 or so they dip down to - 6 or 7 at @ 700 to 1kHz. Thats a full 10 db down from the 30 to 100 hz region.

A couple things. First, I haven't even plugged 'em in yet. So, I don't know how they actually sound which is, of course, the most important thing. They may sound just fine indeed. However, I was expecting a much flatter response curve (and a relatively even sound). If I wanted a mic with bright highs a scooped midrange and hyped low-end, I've already got a few of those. So, I'm hoping the mics sound more even than the plot indicates.

So, anybody else with matched pairs, what do your frequency plots look like?

Thanks,
Geoff Ruby
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Jack Schitt on October 24, 2005, 07:22:48 PM
Mine are about flat up to 100hz. Dip a few db between 100 and 250. Bumps up above 0 by a few db between 400 and 500 and does a gentle smiley face beginning and ending near 0db between 500 and about 7k. There is a slight vartaion from the curve between 2k and 3k bumping up a couple of db but still well under 0. After 7k its pretty flat very near 0db.

The biggest peaks are in the 400-500hz which is about 2db up and 3.5k which is about 9db down.

Like they say in the manual, it probably isn't a go to mic for a lead vocal and probably not right for a number of other sources but I have heard other locals get pretty good results on guitar cabs and drum overheads which is what I got'em for. I'm hoping the relatively flat albeit somewhat scooped 2-5k range (compared to the massive boost most lower end mics have) will make them pretty decent on horns. Time will tell. I don't have a lot of hours on them yet but so far so good. They aren't Neumann wanna be's and for once the Mfg isn't trying to claim they are.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Level on October 24, 2005, 09:07:48 PM
Everyone I have told to "try" the KEL has been delighted. I bet I have sold around 15 of them...and I only worked with one once. I should order me a couple soon!
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: R Geoff Ruby on October 25, 2005, 01:12:08 AM
Thanks Denny,

(And, did you aver make a decision on an LDC (or something else)?

It sounds like your mics have a different response plot to mine (yours have a peak at 400 to 500 that apparently mine don't) and my dip in the mids is about an octave lower than yours (centered around 1500), but of a similar magnitude it seems. Keep in mind this is from what you've told me and what the plot I was supplied with says.

It also sounds like yours have a markedly different response than the sample plot KEL has on their website.

Be that as it may, I still haven't had a listen, and everyone I know who's used these has had good things to say. So, taking the plot with a grain of salt ( and mildly concerned with the possibility of QC "issues") wish me good luck with tracking with these. I'm in a new room, my speakers just died, so I'll be having some QC issues as well, but I hope to report back after I've given the Kels a workout.

Cheers,
Geoff Ruby

Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Jack Schitt on October 25, 2005, 05:40:42 AM
R Geoff Ruby wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 01:12

Thanks Denny,

(And, did you aver make a decision on an LDC (or something else)?

It sounds like your mics have a different response plot to mine (yours have a peak at 400 to 500 that apparently mine don't) and my dip in the mids is about an octave lower than yours (centered around 1500), but of a similar magnitude it seems. Keep in mind this is from what you've told me and what the plot I was supplied with says.

It also sounds like yours have a markedly different response than the sample plot KEL has on their website.

Be that as it may, I still haven't had a listen, and everyone I know who's used these has had good things to say. So, taking the plot with a grain of salt ( and mildly concerned with the possibility of QC "issues") wish me good luck with tracking with these. I'm in a new room, my speakers just died, so I'll be having some QC issues as well, but I hope to report back after I've given the Kels a workout.

Cheers,
Geoff Ruby





Hi Geoff,

Yep, I would agree with your assesment. The curves do seem to be  quite a bit different. I'm lookiing forward to hearing your thoughts on them.

No, I haven't picked an LDC yet. I have been working to borrow as many mics as I can and record some voice samples into to a cubase project to get a little more background/1st hand experience with different models and compare head to head. I have had a few different AT and ADK mics in most recently. Currently investigating Red type B and the various capsules available at the moment. Can't really test drive that one though and comments not written by the mfg are pretty hard to come by. Trying to arrange a test drive of a KSM32 as well.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on October 25, 2005, 12:20:03 PM
The more we use our KEL mics, the more we like them, and the more we want to buy a couple more.

We have one matched pair and the rest of the mics we have are like this:

SM57's
KSM32's
Oktava MK-219's with mods
SM48s
MD-421's
ECM8000's
AT4041's

My favorite application for the KEL is acoustic guitar, where they sound GREAT.  #2 is on toms.  That's why I want to get a couple more, they are so good on toms that if we get drummers in with more than a 4pc kit we're going to need more of them.  They blow away the MD421's on toms (formerly our go-to tom mic).

Really they stand apart from all our other mics on acoustic guitar and toms, in a class by themselves.

Also on drum overheads, they sound big and fat and work fine for rock, but I think mixed in with my other mics we get a better overall sound if we use the ECM8000's or the KSM's as drum overheads and keep the KEL's on the toms.  

We have tried them on vocals and they sound good depending on the vocalist, but may not be our first choice most of the time.  Used them on mandolin, pretty much fantastic.  We recorded some finger snaps and shakers and stuff with them the other day, they did fine.  So far I'm not happy with most of our mics on guitar cabinets but the KEL's are definitely in the hunt.

Basically what we're finding is anything we'd normally consider an SM57 or an MD421, or where we want the detail of a condenser but not a harsh or bright top end, the KEL beats the other go-to mic.  So guitar cabs, acoustic guitar, toms, and bright-ish or thin-sounding small instruments, they really wake that stuff up.  I think they're a great complement to our AT4041's.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: copperx on October 25, 2005, 01:05:25 PM
Has anybody compared these KEL HM-1's to the MXL 990s? Rolling Eyes
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: hargerst on October 25, 2005, 01:12:39 PM
copperx wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 12:05

Has anybody compared these KEL HM-1's to the MXL 990s? Rolling Eyes
Kurt Foster was supposed to send me a pair to try them, but I haven't heard any more from him.  I could certainly test them against the 990's.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on October 26, 2005, 12:45:33 PM
some more

KEL's on toms, ECM8000's overheads, SP B1 kick, 57 snare and 57 on the guitar amp:

[the file's no longer available]



KEL for the acoustic guitar, shaker, finger snaps:

[file's no longer available]
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: luckybastard on October 26, 2005, 02:19:27 PM
sounds good, josh. what kind of pre were you going through?
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: josh on October 26, 2005, 03:09:43 PM
luckybastard wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 19:19

sounds good, josh. what kind of pre were you going through?


Yamaha PM1000
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Jack Schitt on October 28, 2005, 01:23:28 PM
Geoff, What do you think of the Kel's so far? They seem pretty unique in regards to freq. response and price. I haven't seen anything else like them.

In regards to the LDC, I just ordered a AT4050. The RED mics with a B7 capsule was very tempting but it was a single pattern, no pad, no bass roll off and I couldn't audition them. As much as something in the same city as a U47 sound is tempting I couldn't pull the trigger on something I couldn't hear and had virtually no word of mouth good or bad.

The 4050 has the features and track record and I have heard it and other AT 40 series mics and new what I was getting. Plus it leaves a few pennies for something else down the road if needed.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: R Geoff Ruby on October 30, 2005, 09:40:20 PM
I gave my Kels a VERY brief run through a couple days ago. Just set 'em up in my usual go to starting position (about 6 or 8 inches off the eight fret (ish) aiming at where the neck meets the body, and the other over my right shoulder) for recording my Collings acoustic.

First impressions: they sounded quite nice. Natural, not overly bright top, a bit boomy on the bottom maybe, but I didn't fiddle with placement at all, so could be a bit of proximity, and the mids sounded maybe slightly scooped, but in a nice way. I'll try and give them a bit more attention in the next week or so, but I think I'm going to like them.

Denny, enjoy the 4050. I think they're nice mics. I stand behind my previous advice to you: don't second guess your purchase too much, especially based on others comments online. Use it, learn its strengths, what works for you and what doesn't. A year or two down the road, evaluate whether it does what you want out of it, and if it isnt cutting it, sell it and move on. (Of course, assuming that you don't hate it from the start, but I dont think you will).

Cheers,
Geoff Ruby
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Kurt Foster on October 31, 2005, 04:07:55 AM
hargerst wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 10:12

copperx wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 12:05

Has anybody compared these KEL HM-1's to the MXL 990s? Rolling Eyes
Kurt Foster was supposed to send me a pair to try them, but I haven't heard any more from him.  I could certainly test them against the 990's.



Harvey,
OOPS! I guess I dropped the ball on this one!

We have had a bit of disaster / havoc on this end recently so I haven't had the opportunity to get to this. Sorry.

Please PM me with your mailing address or send it to me via email and I will try to get them out to you as soon as I can.

On another note, I recorded a live band in a bar / remote session last night and I used the HM-1's on a guitar amp and on a snare drum. I expected good results on the guitar amp and I wasn't disappointed. Great sound without all the "crackle - fizzies"  that so often plague guitar amp tracks but the real shocker for me was how great the HM-1 sounded on snare drum. Really fat and full, plenty of snap, a ton of punch and good rejection of unwanted spill. It really made the headphones pound, even with the cheezie pre amps I use for remotes!  ... The more I use these little mics, the more I like them.
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Jack Schitt on October 31, 2005, 09:41:36 PM
R Geoff Ruby wrote on Sun, 30 October 2005 21:40


Denny, enjoy the 4050. I think they're nice mics. I stand behind my previous advice to you: don't second guess your purchase too much, especially based on others comments online. Use it, learn its strengths, what works for you and what doesn't. A year or two down the road, evaluate whether it does what you want out of it, and if it isnt cutting it, sell it and move on. (Of course, assuming that you don't hate it from the start, but I dont think you will).

Cheers,
Geoff Ruby


I appreciate the advice Geoff. I'm sure I will love the 4050. I had an opportunity to test drive the 4050 and several other 40 series mics as well as several others. I'm actually looking forward to trying some recording techniques like M/S that I couldn't do previously with single pattern mics. Sometimes I like to make light of the fact that others don't necessarily agree with my choices but the truth is trends rarely influence my selection. I'm just too anal and do to much research into these kinds of things including asking the experienced guys what they think. I pick the stuff that sounds best to me. What I end up choosing may not be the first choice of some of the top shelf guys we share space with here but I am always certain my choices fit my needs, budget and application.

If I recall correctly the best quote I have scene regarding something I use was one individual saying he wouldn't mix a milkshake on RME converters. Smile More power to him. It was still funny even if I don't concur. Smile

I started recording with boom boxes, a 4 channel Realistic line mixer and a $20 Radio Shack mic when I was a kid. Getting the last bit of performance out of the gear I have has always been one of the more enjoyable aspects of recording for me. Watching jaws hit the floor from hearing a recording done on a tascam 8 track cassete recorder those same people told me was "a complete piece of shit" was a real eye opener in my younger days. If I ever doubt that its the engineer, not the gear I just put on anything Rudy Van Gelder did for Blue Note. If his brilliant work isn't a reality check in that regard I don't know what is.  
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: copperx on November 03, 2005, 08:38:04 PM
Someone send a pair of KEL HM-1s to Harvey for review ... I wanto to hear his opinion  Very Happy
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Empty Planet on November 03, 2005, 11:37:11 PM
The couple of tracks I've heard of this mic on acoustic guitar were enough to make me shell out for an experiment.  Just the ticket for someone suffering from fizzy China-mic-itis.   Rolling Eyes  

Dark and Beatley it sounded to me, but then compared to what's on the radio just about anything sounds dark, and then of course they could've just been dark guitars well-engineered.  Ah well, we'll see when they arrive.

Cool
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: $a1Ty on November 04, 2005, 05:19:48 AM
i just got a pair and they are nice, heap of bottom end but that easily taken out

sure they are dark but its easy to turn darkness down, easier than turning brightness down
Title: Re: KEL HM-1 continues to blow me away
Post by: Empty Planet on November 26, 2005, 10:27:51 AM
Mine just arrived and I've been recording some acoustic guitar this morning.  Had to come 'round and throw in my two cents.  

Shockingly good for the price.  That's basically it.  I have a functional Guild "True American"  Rolling Eyes which is  passable but nothing special, and this mic actually makes it sound like something pretty darn nice.  I've not heard a mic so flattering for this guitar, somehow it particularly makes little scale runs and riffs rich and musical in a way that sounds like somebody snuck around behind my back and actually hired a good engineer   Shocked  -- but this time I got it just by throwing the mic up and playing.  

I think this is going to be a really easy mic to work with.  I'm running it through a Tab-Funkenwerk V78m, so that's clearly helping out, but in comparison to other mics at that price level, there's just no comparison.

"Dark" in comparison to my Studio Projects mic, perhaps, but apart from a small bump around 90 and another around 450, the response is flat.  I'm delighted to compare it to my C1, because I've tried for years to coax nice acoustic guitar tones through that mic and it's just more trouble than it's worth; too many unmusical, unpleasant resonances and of course the oft-mentioned brittle highs.  Neither of those issues are a problem with this Kel mic.  In fact, I'd lean a little more toward "warm" and "round" in describing its sound, with my guitar through my chain.

Very impressed with the mic -- I wish Kelly and his company great success.

Cheers.