Post by: acupunk on July 11, 2004, 01:33:14 PM
I have never been satisfied with a 57.
What is the latest suggestions for a mic for this purpose?
I am recording a Bogner Shiva combo at pretty low volumes.
Post by: guitarbth on July 11, 2004, 02:28:01 PM
Ive not tried the R84 however...
Post by: Jonas as on July 11, 2004, 07:47:53 PM
Being a guitar player not happy with 57, i will suggest following,
The royer 121 is very good-agreed.
But don't forget:
Sennheiser MD-421-never bad on a good sounding amp.
Beyer m-160- also good
Coles 4038 ribbons, it's figure of eight so it has that cool room color.
MD 441 is also nice sometimes.
Theres plenty of mics that could be cool on guitar, it's to a degree just about wich color youre after. Most of these mics have a pretty "smooth" sound. And they all have some kind of mid-range peak and mostly dips a bit to somewhere else in the midrange, as do the sm57, its just in different places, and thus might be good depending on the exact application.
High level amps tend to be very snappy and responsive, dynamic, and detailed so smoother sounding less detailed mics might be ion order as above.
But, for low SPL amp operation a condenser might be nice, bringing out more of whats there, but lots of amps are relatively noisy on low levels, and a condenser won't make that less apparent...
AKG C535 is a pretty cheap condenser, unlikely choice, but for some reason is really nice on twins, or similar amps.
U 87s can be nice on a low level amp, but needs a few inches of distance.
tough the last time i recorded a very low level amp, i was a micstand short, and so i just hung the 87 by the cable over the tilted twin, worked very nicely.
On VOX ac30 kind of amps, some tube condensers can be killer. But it depends a bit on what kind of role you want the guitar to play in the mix.
also of course, at least one room mic, wich might be very different characterwise than the main mic, might bring a lot of life to your guitar track.
These days i'm really into a combo of beyer m-160 as main and the dynamic omni Sennheiser MD-21 as room.
Hope this is helpful-
-bora
Post by: djui5 on July 12, 2004, 02:49:38 AM
Post by: Bredo on July 12, 2004, 08:14:25 AM
Let me hear from you when you have tried this one. I'm not kidding, this was an eye-opener.
P.S. Work a bit on the placement D.S.
Post by: Fletcher on July 12, 2004, 09:10:47 AM
Post by: fishtop on July 12, 2004, 05:47:01 PM
with Beyer Dymanics M201.
It is similar to a SM57, but with
a little bit more.
Sell for about $200 each.
Post by: debuys on July 13, 2004, 12:32:30 AM
I love the sound of a C1000 on guitar amps. It's about all I use these things for anymore.
Post by: PRobb on July 13, 2004, 12:48:23 AM
Post by: raw-tracks on July 13, 2004, 11:53:39 AM
Post by: acupunk on July 14, 2004, 02:20:40 AM
Post by: raal on November 17, 2004, 02:27:05 AM
the 122 being active, has more gain, making it useful as an all around mic.
i would suggest you listen before you buy.
Post by: judah on November 17, 2004, 03:11:54 AM
| PRobb wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 06:48 |
How many mics do you guys usually use on an amp? I saw a picture of a Ross Hogarth set-up http://www.royerlabs.com/ross_hogarth/Guitar_rig_XLG.html and was a bit surprised at the number of mics. |
I usually put two mic per cab for guitar tracks. Mi preferred combos are:
R121+57
MD421+M500
M500+545
R121+545
R.
Post by: bloodstone on November 17, 2004, 06:13:16 AM
Post by: judah on November 17, 2004, 09:14:32 AM
AT4047+R121
The amp was a Fender Twin and a Peavey Classic 4x10".
Heavy guitars:
R121 (almost dead on speaker dome), 57 on its right side, as close as possible, MD421 on its left side, touching the R121.
Head was Engl Savage 120, Marshal 1960 cabinet with stock speakers.
On noise stuff:
R121+57 (touchin', same as above), amp was a Peavey Classic 50W, 2x12" (stock speakers)
On bright rock stuff:
M500+MD421
Amp was a Fender Deluxe 1x12". The worst guitar amplifier ever build.
R.
Post by: Fletcher on November 17, 2004, 09:17:10 AM
Post by: Taylor Audio on November 17, 2004, 10:32:24 AM
Post by: jimmyjazz on November 17, 2004, 05:04:56 PM
On the other hand, the 121 is working beautifully on a darker pop record I'm working on now.
Post by: JCLopeman on November 18, 2004, 12:08:18 AM
I have also found the quality of the pre is also very important, especially when recording at lower volumes and with a low output mic like the R84. Mic placement is the more important than the mic/pre combo. If you are recording an open back combo, try a mic on the back as well as front and be careful with phase.
Post by: judah on November 18, 2004, 02:36:08 AM
| Fletcher wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 15:17 |
Checked out a Josephson e22S in that application recently... might have a new favorite!!! |
Hi Fletcher,
would you mind tellin' us more about this very niece piece? I looked at it mostly because of the Albini factor and would like to know what you can do with it. Is it really a swiss army knife of microphones? Which application is best suited for?
The euro-USD exchange rate is so tempting right now. There has never been a better time to buy from US, so I'm looking out for a lot of stuff.
Cheers.
R.
Post by: J.J. Blair on November 18, 2004, 12:49:56 PM
Honestly though, if you want just one mic for the application and you don't want to spend a great deal of money or you don't want to worry about damaging ribbons, I would try the MD409. Don't even bother with the newer 609s. Pieces of shit. But the 409 gives you great low end response and a tight, punchy high end, especially if you like definition in the texture of electric guitar. I wish I had more of them, to tell you the truth.
Post by: Fletcher on November 18, 2004, 02:48:25 PM
| judah wrote on Thu, 18 November 2004 02:36 |
Hi Fletcher, would you mind tellin' us more about this very niece piece? I looked at it mostly because of the Albini factor and would like to know what you can do with it. Is it really a swiss army knife of microphones? |
It's been pretty "swiss army knife" like in my world. When I tried it on a guitar amp it was about about 2/3'rds of the way from the dust cap to the speaker surround, and tilted to be about parallel with the cone paper. Sounded HUUUUUGE and clear.
I've used e22S's on drums, on acoustic guitar, on mandolin, on grand piano and have never been disappointed... a couple of times I found myself liking a Gefell M-295 as much or more in the same application, some times less...
Post by: jgreenlee on November 18, 2004, 05:10:55 PM
Anyway....I haven't seen any other side-address SD condensors out there. Am I just missing them or is the e22 about it?
Peace,
James
Post by: OOF! on November 19, 2004, 01:55:20 AM
surprisingly, the chandler tg2 also is an excellent pairing, even though it doesn't have a lot of top.
the 121 is also particular with placement- put it right on the center of the cone, wherre it's brightest, possibly angled slightly down to avoid some blast.
other favorites of mine are an ev 646- the hammer- excellent punch. for an uncolored sound, an ev re50 omni works great- usually for more nuanced playing.
one more thing- try putting an omni condensor far away- like in the other room, with the door ajar, and mix that in or pan opposite- it adds a lot of dimension
Post by: judah on November 19, 2004, 02:42:52 AM
| Fletcher wrote on Thu, 18 November 2004 20:48 | ||
It's been pretty "swiss army knife" like in my world. When I tried it on a guitar amp it was about about 2/3'rds of the way from the dust cap to the speaker surround, and tilted to be about parallel with the cone paper. Sounded HUUUUUGE and clear. I've used e22S's on drums, on acoustic guitar, on mandolin, on grand piano and have never been disappointed... a couple of times I found myself liking a Gefell M-295 as much or more in the same application, some times less... |
Thanks. I'll look into one. The price is really tempting.
The Gefell line seems very interesting too and so much cheaper here in Europe. Isn't the M295 a SD condenser?
Cheers.
R.
Post by: jimmyjazz on November 19, 2004, 12:10:17 PM
| OOF! wrote on Fri, 19 November 2004 01:55 |
to the chap you found the 121 too dark- it's pretty particular to the pre you're using with it. the great river nv is a great match for the royer- or most any other ribbon. |
That was me . . . and that was exactly the preamp I used! I just couldn't get the guitar to "cut" enough. I probably should have messed with it some more, but we were (as usual) in a hurry.
Post by: mumbles on November 24, 2004, 08:16:52 PM
The 4050's are obviously quite a bit brighter, so it depends on the material.
Post by: Vertigo on November 26, 2004, 10:40:27 AM
-Lance
Post by: gtoledo3 on November 26, 2004, 03:01:35 PM
I dare say that if a 57 doesn't sound good, then:
1. Your preamp isn't a good match.
or
2. Your mic placement is off.
or
3. The tone of the guitar/amp sucks.
A 57 isn't always the best sound in solo, but it invariably will work well in the mix, if the actual source sound is good.
Post by: sonixx on November 26, 2004, 07:43:44 PM
| Fletcher wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 14:17 |
Checked out a Josephson e22S in that application recently... might have a new favorite!!! |
do you find your e22S mic slightly dark? I've found a e609S and a e22S are nice complements on the same cab...
-keith-
Post by: James Duncan on November 27, 2004, 12:00:39 PM
I do love the "tried and true" SM57, and of course the Senn MD421. I also find that for a bit brighter sound, the MD441 is also a good choice.