Norwood wrote on Fri, 11 March 2005 02:18 |
I have never used a compressor on the 2 buss before... |
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...but I am beginning to notice that some of my mixes need something to pull it all together... a little "glue". I was just wondering what you guys used, either plugin or hardware for "glue" or "color" or both. |
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I'm down to two choices these days... The Alan Smart version of the SSL compressor, for those things that need to sound LIKE the ubiquitous commercial radio sound. And the Daking compressors for records that I want to sound better. |
Bob Olhsson wrote on Sat, 12 March 2005 09:45 |
At Motown we didn't even have a limiter or compressor in the mastering room, just an Ortophon high frequency limiter. Berry Gordy hated the sound of limiters as did a number of the singers who would demand that you take it out if they heard it in the headphones... |
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...signal processing can make a mix sound better in the mix room but lots worse everywhere else. The best monitors only give you a clue..... |
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...If you get the miking right and pay attention to what the performers are hearing, it's amazing how little compression you really need... |
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And then there's the guy I heard about here in Nashville who was patching a Pro Tools rig into the 2-buss of an SSL so that he could L-1 his mixes to make them sound "contemporary!" |
wwittman wrote on Sun, 13 March 2005 21:29 |
Although I completely agree that i don't do it AGAIN at the mix. |
Bob Olhsson wrote on Mon, 14 March 2005 01:40 |
The idea that you can just have a roadie track everything at home to save a little money for the mix is a pretty serious production error. |
wwittman wrote on Mon, 14 March 2005 14:30 |
The ultimate in craziness is what's coming next... in that people are starting to bring their ProTools rigs to mastering with the mix running "in the box" and "adjusting" the mix in the mastering room. |
compasspnt wrote on Mon, 14 March 2005 16:46 | ||
This to me is stunningly insecure. |
J.J. wrote on Sat, 12 March 2005 18:17 |
What I find I achieve withe stereo compression is a few things: I also like the way it gets the bass a litle tighter sounding. Finally, the subtle pump caused by the kick or snare hits really makes rock records pump, whici I think if anything adds dynamic, rather than limiting it. |
andy_simpson wrote on Mon, 14 March 2005 18:30 |
Over the last couple of days I've been mixing a classical quartet that I tracked in the most incredibly dry rehearsal room. The results of which I have subjected to various mix approaches including, leaving the mix dry, and adding differing amounts of reverb. Now, because my ear does not like the ridiculous dynamic range of a close-mic'd and vigourously sawed violin or two, I have been trying a limiter on the mix buss. This has clarified massively what I had only known previously by instinct....that limiting on the mix buss is very unnatural to the ear if the mix has any reverberation....which is to say that the ear is very sensitive to the proper natural decay of reverberation. On even a slightly wet mix I can barely limit 1-2dB before the mix starts pumping and sounding terrible (makes my ears jump and the image goes to shit), yet I still have at least 5 dB too much range on the violins for my fragile ears.... However, I can limit the bone dry mix by 5-10dB and take away the 'nasty' upper dynamics of the violins, and it sounds lovely, intimate and rich (to my ear!). So I can crank the monitors and get inside the performance beautifully, without having my head taken off by the violent violins..... Then I take the limited mix and post-apply the 'verb (although at a lesser amount) and it sounds perfectly natural.... Which leads me to the notion that the mastering guy can't possibly do any kind of mix-buss limiting/comp without completely screwing the reverbs/delays in the mix.....and that the best place for limiting is pre-reverb.....and definately pre-mastering. I'm sure most of you already know this, but it's a bit of a realisation for me. And anyone who has had the pleasure of hearing a master cellist from 3 ft away in a quiet dry room will understand why I love the dry, limited and imtimate sound. So. Andy PS I know that some of you 'classical' engineers would balk at the idea of close mic'ing & limiting classical music, but loud violins make me flinch (like a vented picolo snare) - but I do like to get close to a cello....and a little limiting can help to tame a violin that also moved quite alot in respect to the position of the mic and was played very vigourously! |
wwittman wrote on Mon, 14 March 2005 18:34 |
I know I mixed Time After Time that way... |
Norwood wrote on Mon, 14 March 2005 22:50 | ||
Holy crap, you mixed that... one of my favorites. |
wwittman wrote on Tue, 15 March 2005 07:54 |
Interestingly enough, that album was the LAST one I ever mixed without automation. |
drumsound wrote on Tue, 15 March 2005 08:27 | ||||
Time After Time is a great one sir. I love the harmony. |
thomsbrain wrote on Thu, 17 March 2005 15:17 |
I can understand not wanting to turn in your final mix with any compression (let the mastering guy do his thing), but I feel like it could be useful to set levels and individual compression settings (or at least do a quick check now and then) within the context of the "finished product." You're going to want to know how much the mix is going to pump with those big kick drum hits, or whether 2buss compression makes the guitars stand out too much... |
thomsbrain wrote on Thu, 17 March 2005 15:17 |
... wouldn't it make sense to at least throw a comp on the 2Bus every once and a while, so you can get a better sense of what your mix will actually sound like in the end? ... |
zmix wrote on Mon, 14 March 2005 16:20 | ||||
Insecure? Perhaps, but not too far fetched. I recently had a mastering guy ask me to bring my "Pro Tools files" (which I do not use, and didn't bring) to the session. Whatever it takes to make a better record, eh? |
thomsbrain wrote on Thu, 17 March 2005 11:17 |
If most "pop" recordings are going to see a fair amount of compression during the mastering process, wouldn't it make sense to at least throw a comp on the 2Bus every once and a while, so you can get a better sense of what your mix will actually sound like in the end? |
bblackwood wrote on Fri, 18 March 2005 03:53 |
... That's what they say, but you have to ask yourself - has blurring the lines between mixing and mastering generally helped or hurt audio over the years? |
I have been wondering about the API 2500
slicraider wrote on Fri, 18 March 2005 17:52 |
I have been wondering about the API 2500 Very cool unit! I had been using one at a particular stdio for a while. It's very flexible and you can really sculpt the sound. The variable link is a fantastic mod too. The input sensing is a very powerful tool. The problem is no rental company here in NY has one. This all brings up the issue that I have yet to see in this thread which is "frequency dependent" compression. I have been using some form of 2 buss compression for years but I always route things such that any bass frequencies are not hitting the same compressor as my mid and hi frequency info which gives me a much smoother vibe and helps maintain dynamics in my mix. Rick Slater NYC |
slicraider wrote on Fri, 18 March 2005 17:52 |
I have been using some form of 2 buss compression for years but I always route things such that any bass frequencies are not hitting the same compressor as my mid and hi frequency info which gives me a much smoother vibe and helps maintain dynamics in my mix. NYC |
wwittman wrote on Mon, 21 March 2005 08:23 |
...These people are not going to spend the money for Augspurgers, let alone for George himself to make the room right, when the conventional wisdom is that they 'don't need to'... |
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Would you mind writing a bit more about your freq dependent compression technique? What console are you using when you do this, how do you go about the patching, what compressors you use for which bands, etc..... |
slicraider wrote on Mon, 21 March 2005 10:01 |
... The real key for my approach is to keep the low frequency stuff out of the main compression buss so that it doesn't pump. ... |
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I got really no idea how this approach would work for rock but I will be mixing two rock songs next week and will try it out. |