compasspnt wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 17:05 |
•Major labels are not run today by men such as Blackwell, Branson, Ertegun, Ellis/Wright, et al, who were there because they LOVED MUSIC. Yes, they were, or at least became, BUSINESSMEN, but that wasn't the driving force. Today it's a lawyer-business-school-graduate-driven, ultra-corporate monster. Chances are not being taken on "different" talent anymore. This too lessens the number of sessions being booked. Terry Manning |
compasspnt wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 10:05 |
However, as it relates to music, this equality has trickled down, so that there is little respect for the elite of audio engineering, of music production, or of commercial marketing acuity. New groups or artists expect that they can produce themselves, engineer themselves, and sell themselves over the Internet. Rightly or wrong, this too has lessened bookings at large studios. |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 12:57 |
but a band can easily make an incredible sounding record for 20k or MUCH LESS |
bblackwood wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 13:39 |
That's a bit low, imo... |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 13:57 |
i think a lot of artists are starting to see the massive absurdity in paying a single person over 100k upfront and signing them up for points on their record (just to help "steer the ship") knowing good and well that they can't possibly recoup that money and make any thing to support their lives. then they have to book a room that charges a pretty penny for all the fancy gear they have (hey i'd love to have it too).....but do i really need to pay for muffins every morning, and on-tap micro brews and catered lunches, or staff chefs?????????????????????? then we pay an engineer to track the session, then we have to pay a mixer to mix the album who some how has found justification in billing the band (let's get real, everything the label pays out is really the bands "loan" money) as much as the over paid producer gets, if not more, and in some cases successfully negotiates receiving 1 point for mixing your record. so excuse me if i don't find the current status of the "elite audio professinals" to be a bit absurd.... ...the business is changing because people are waking up and saying, "what the hell am i paying these people THIS much money for??????" |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 14:56 | ||
i couldn't disagree with you more. |
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OK, you record for two weeks, mix for two weeks - you have 28 days of engineering fees. |
bblackwood wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 15:17 |
Some people pull it off, most simply cannot. Not for an "incredible" sounding record, ime... |
compasspnt wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 15:13 |
Actually, I agree with you. I was only citing reasons I believe have lead to the decline in large studio business, not necessarily pontificating on the relative morality of the situation. |
Level wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 22:28 |
March 2 1969. April 22, 1969, Kind of Blue. Miles Davis. Hello! |
Linear wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 16:58 |
I also look at what electrical audio/big blue meenie have been doing and think that this will be the only way to successfully carry on a largeish recording business. |
jfrigo wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 10:42 | ||
Which is what exactly? |
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I wonder how the studio business is going in the UK? Seems like alot of the larger studios do lots of film work too (AIR, Abbey RD) for their bread and butter. |
Linear wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 16:58 |
My slant on this is that prior to the CD (pre-1984) there was no 'home recording' equipment so if you wanted to record, you needed to go to a pro studio. |
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when CD's came out, there was a huge injection of cash into labels when everybody repurchased their catalog. After that frenzy was over, MP3's came out, semi-pro audio equipment came out, etc etc and it's been downward ever since. |
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I do think however that this is just a phase, and that music is far too important for quality stuff to go the way of the dinosaurs. Once this fad of cheap-sounding throwaway music has passed, real music will come back. The cream always floats to the top. |
bblackwood wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 12:03 | ||||
Quality staff that works for the good of the entity instead of good for self. This means taking low paying gigs at times to help fill the coffers that pay everyone. Quality staff is the key here and the thing that many of the larger studios seem to have forgotten about in recent years - but the very thing that Steve and Tim (and other studios that are able to remain afloat in these times) have focused on... |
jfrigo wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 11:42 | ||
Which is what exactly? Seems their model is to have an "outsider" image, target indies, and have in-house talent that draws? Seems somewhat promising. But remember, a big part of Steve's high profile came from doing some traditional, "old model" record label hits. |
bblackwood wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 09:03 |
Quality staff that works for the good of the entity instead of good for self. This means taking low paying gigs at times to help fill the coffers that pay everyone. |
electrical wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 18:05 |
I supported myself and my studio for many years before I ever got within spitting distance of a "hit." Doing it every day matters much more than doing it once for a famous band. |
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And it isn't an "outsider image." It is an entire existence -- an entire culture -- that exists "outside" the cliche of the mainstream music business. |
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The underground/independent music scene is both vibrant and productive, and everyone whose livelihood depends on music would do well not to dismiss it. |
jfrigo wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 20:12 |
What I want to know is: can it work? I have a feeling that there are some other problems that still need to be worked out before that model graduates from a success in a couple of isolated cases to the new paradigm for successful studios. |
bblackwood wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 20:07 |
I will always run my facility just as John, Steve, Tim, and many others have for years, as it's a proven method of success. |
Phil wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 19:10 |
... Until these studio closing threads erupted, I never realized how much the 'elite' glorified themselves, and held the rest of us in contempt... ...Geez - this is all about cowboys isn't it? When you walk into town wearing a six shooter, and you think you're the meanest SOB in town, you expect everyone to kiss your ass. When some unknown shows up that's a little faster, and blows a hole in your heart, do all the pundits stand around and talk about the quality or price of the armament? Or how it's all gone downhill lately?... Phil |
Phil wrote on Sat, 05 February 2005 11:10 |
As far as I was concerned, if it fit through my front door, it was 'home recording' stuff. |
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I'll never accept the argument that inexpensive gear is to blame for the music biz woes. |
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The magazines used to talk about the 'consumer demand for better audio'. Bullshit. They want louder bass - that's how important music is to the average person. Music is not the primary force in the lives of the public at large. Music is the accompaniment to a nubile in pelvic motion on MTV (wanna point fingers? point one their way); music is what you jump to while stoned and looking to get laid; music is what you turn up loud in your car so people will think you're hot shit, and to piss off the neighbors - music is also a lot of things good, but it needs to be kept in perspective. <snip> Phil |
Linear wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 19:58 |
Terry recently tracked in Sydney (I suspect Studio 301 - am I right?) and that operation was bought by Mr SAE as a flagship operation for his business... Chris Linear Recording |
Linear wrote on Sun, 06 February 2005 16:18 | ||
That's funny, both my Ampex MM1200 and Studer A80 multitracks track fit through a front door. Does that mean they're not pro? |
Linear wrote on Sun, 06 February 2005 16:18 | ||
I'll give you an example - A guy I know was given a $10K budget to record his 2nd album by an 'investor'. Instead of going down to the local pro studio to record, he decided to buy a ProTools rig, some mics, a little outboard etc and do it himself. Results? They speak for themselves. It sounds like it was recorded at home. Is he happy? Not at all. That's $10K more in the Digidesign/Studio Projects/Mackie coffers and $10K less in a studio that was designed and built for that very purpose. |
Linear wrote on Sun, 06 February 2005 16:18 | ||
I once worked at a radio station here in Sydney for a couple of months, making radio ads. It sucked bigtime. I remember thinking this for a while, and then I quit. Music is much more than those things you describe, and to write it off as easily as you have shows a cynical attitude that, at this time more than ever, the industry could well do without. Chris |
Phil wrote on Mon, 07 February 2005 14:59 |
Gimme a break, that's an overworked anecdote. So, are you saying that any nitwit who signs a lease for a space in an industrial park and loads it with high-priced gear is automatically a 'professional'? I've heard lots of very stinky crap come out of places like that - 'pro' studios that were run by a big mouth with a talentless slob attached. |
jfrigo wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 20:12 |
Sounds like a return to an older model when staff engineers were a studio's best asset. However, in contrast to the old model, it also seems that studios need to shrink to stay competitive. |
j.hall wrote on Mon, 07 February 2005 09:38 | ||
shrinkage is not necessary.....bands simply don't need a staff sushi chef, on-tap micro brews, massages, and all sorts of other absurd amenities. it's those things that raise the overhead for unnecessary reasons. |
jfrigo wrote on Mon, 07 February 2005 11:53 |
I hope enough good sized tracking spaces survive. |