Hanjong Ko wrote on Fri, 27 February 2009 06:24 |
I know that this issue has been discussed to death all over many forums, and always thought that it was a myth. That digital summing is just summing of numbers. However, there are also many people who believe in this theory of lots of tracks will saturate digital bus and cause degradation of audio quality), even many professionals. Could someone PLEASE explain why this is a myth or not? |
Hanjong Ko wrote on Sat, 28 February 2009 18:52 |
So regardless of how many tracks are used on a digital bus, as long as not clipping, there isn't quality loss? Because there are people who says "When you mix digitally in your PC, you can lose information and sound quality." I am actually quoting that from Dangerous 2-BUS product overview on their website. |
jimmyjazz wrote on Thu, 19 March 2009 13:41 |
Imagine going to the grocery store with $200, but you take $210 worth of groceries to the cashier. You ain't getting that 12-pack of Sierra Nevada, and consequently, you distort. |
Steve Hudson wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 14:52 | ||
Brilliant analogy. And my favorite beer. |
Ian Visible wrote on Thu, 19 March 2009 07:04 |
How does "in the box" or digital summing work? I can imagine how it works in the real world in air but I can't get my head round digital summing...or I'm trying to make it more complicated than it is. |
compasspnt wrote on Thu, 02 April 2009 01:19 |
Jon, what would say the trade off is in using floating point? Or is it a Free Lunch? |
Jon Hodgson wrote on Wed, 01 April 2009 16:10 |
All of the above basically adds up to the following... in modern DAWs, so long as you don't see any clipping lights, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. |
Jay Kadis wrote on Thu, 02 April 2009 16:04 | ||
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Jay Kadis wrote on Thu, 02 April 2009 16:04 | ||
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compasspnt wrote on Wed, 01 April 2009 20:19 |
Jon, what would you say the trade off is in using floating point? Or is it a Free Lunch? |
cerberus wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 03:32 | ||
although jon has answered. i find there is a separate, but related issue which is a consequence of floating point's variable resolution. (32 float values can have -up to- 23 bits of resolution, but unless the material is a test tone, not every sample could have the maximum resolution.) but let's assume that we have more than enough resolution for our purposes; i believe there is still another important issue: with floating point, the noise floor of the system also "floats". i find that adding some steady low level noise to summing busses in my daw has a benefit. i do not understand the phenemonon perfectly well, but after many years of this practice: i am sure that whatever minor effect i am exploiting is real; and although it's small, it's always significant. (since we are already splitting hairs here, or are we? imo, such subtleties are why some people with discerning ears claim to prefer analogue.) jeff dinces |
cerberus wrote on Sun, 17 May 2009 01:13 |
hi mark; it's from one of the waves vintage plug-ins, seems to be mostly 60hz line noise. there is a switch on these plug-ins which can turn off the noise; so it is easy for anyone to experiment and perhaps discover the effect. i recorded the noise to a 32 bit file, which i run as a daw track. i can send it to any summing busses. in order to prevent noise from building up in complex chains: i run a polarity-inverted copy, sent to alternate busses; i tweak the exact levels carefully by ear. jeff dinces |
Kassonica wrote on Sat, 16 May 2009 19:54 |
Your saying that you run this to your internal (DAW) busses and it helps with the summing process say like (and please correct me if I'm wrong) a kind of dither? |
Kassonica wrote on Sat, 16 May 2009 19:54 |
I am truly fascinated by this and any other info would be graciously accepted. |
Quote: |
I am a ITB guy and anything I can learn about making the digital process better for me and my clients I'm very interested in. I don't have the waves plugins, but I'm sure I will have something that will do the trick. |
compasspnt wrote on Sat, 16 May 2009 21:04 |
Just for fun, try adding a hum track and a noise track to your mix. Hum from perhaps an old radio or other device that has a steady low (60-ish) hum. Noise from perhaps a TV set on a blank channel. Keep them very, very low, just below where you can/can't hear them. Then see how your 'regular' mix compares to this one with the added artifacts. |
compasspnt wrote on Sun, 17 May 2009 02:04 |
Just for fun, try adding a hum track and a noise track to your mix. Hum from perhaps an old radio or other device that has a steady low (60-ish) hum. Noise from perhaps a TV set on a blank channel. Keep them very, very low, just below where you can/can't hear them. Then see how your 'regular' mix compares to this one with the added artifacts. |
Ian Visible wrote on Fri, 29 May 2009 15:30 |
The atmosphere in Mirror's Edge is amazing! Your hard work definitely paid off - in my humble opinion, the game would not be the same without it! |
cerberus wrote on Sat, 16 May 2009 08:13 |
hi mark; it's from one of the waves vintage plug-ins, seems to be mostly 60hz line noise. there is a switch on these plug-ins which can turn off the noise; so it is easy for anyone to experiment and perhaps discover the effect. i recorded the noise to a 32 bit file, which i run as a daw track. i can send it to any summing busses. in order to prevent noise from building up in complex chains: i run a polarity-inverted copy, sent to alternate busses; i tweak the exact levels carefully by ear. jeff dinces |