pg666 wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 11:47 |
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp? z=y&isbn=0316787531&itm=1 |
rattleyour wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 12:46 |
El Presidente should be along any minute... |
rattleyour wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 17:46 |
El Presidente should be along any minute... |
Iain Graham wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 14:14 | ||
I thought you meant the band from Glasgow. I was trying to figure out how they were indie rock..... Iain *badly need a day off, alcohol has stopped working* |
MorningStar wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 13:55 |
So whats the deal? Is it a sound?? Like Motown? Surf music of the 60's.... Modern Punk?? Can a jam band be indie? Can a rock band be indie? Can an indie band be rock?? Should I be handeling "indie" clients differntly ? Is the band going to sound indie despite what I do as an engineer? Do I need certain gear to achieve an Indie sound?? Should some gear be avoided because its not indie enough? I think these are real questions that should be answered. Right??? |
MorningStar wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 11:17 | ||||
A mexican band from Glasgow- now that sounds indie!!! |
rattleyour wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 14:34 | ||||||
Yer a mole! Myspace reveals an affilaition w/ Kevin AKA The Viking who was among the first to be exiled by El Presidente for Felonious Alanis w(h)orship. [Edit: the H is optional. Heh.] Move along people. There's nothing to see here... http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/125850/898/?SQ= 836f4ba9664c8098cbb3274ee27a180c#msg_125850 What do you like your MP1A on? |
garretg wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 14:26 | ||
Let's see if I can make things even more confusing. A rock band can be indie. An indie band can be rock. But not necessarily.... Guns and Roses was a rock band. Definitely not indie. Belle and Sebastian are indie, but not rock. Most indie bands are on small independent labels, or unsigned. There are some exceptions who make the jump and keep their indie cred. Modest Mouse would be one example... Most jam bands _cannot_ be indie rock. Instrumental wanking is off-limits in indie rock. There are very few exceptions... Built to Spill is one of them. Indie = independent of major labels... fresh, without commercial intent, do-it-yourself, etc. Heritage goes back to punk bands, but the genre is more open-ended. There are indie bands that are inspired by surf music (Los Straitjackets), 70s jazz fusion, or 60s french pop. You get to be called indie pretty easily. You only get to be called indie rock if you bring the rock. Otherwise, you are called twee or more generously indie pop. That's where I get shoved. As for handling indie rock clients, you might want to get familiar with a short list of indie heroes. Off the top of my head... Yo La Tengo Built to Spill Sonic Youth Modest Mouse Pavement Fugazi My Bloody Valentine Guided by Voices Neutral Milk Hotel Flaming Lips Interpol Mogwai Pixies Sea and Cake Sigur Ros Stereolab Tortoise More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_indie_rock_artists |
scott volthause wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:26 |
[/care][care] oh look. i stopped caring before i even started. |
MorningStar wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:10 |
NOW we are getting somewhere! Here is the problem I have now. I understand the non-major part of it. But the FRESH, WITHOUT COMMERCIAL INTENT is where i get lost. Most people who talk indie , talk about bands that i think all sound exactly alike. There's nothing fresh about it. Everyone wants to sound exactly like what they are hearing on the radio. I'm going to freshen up on some of the bands you listed so I can be hip again. |
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But with all that in mind.. wouldnt it be more indie to be a "rock" band?? Bringing back all that freshness of the late 60's? early 70's??? |
pg666 wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 10:47 |
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp? z=y&isbn=0316787531&itm=1 |
Bivouac wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 14:30 |
My definition of indie rock is about as open-ended as the cornucopia of sounds it associates with... "I know it when I see it..." |
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Most people who talk indie , talk about bands that i think all sound exactly alike. There's nothing fresh about it. Everyone wants to sound exactly like what they are hearing on the radio. |
pg666 wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 19:40 |
These current bands do embody that same punk rock spirit and sound nothing like stuff on the radio (or each other): Medications, Electrelane, Oneida, Lightning Bolt, Pelican, Make Believe, Dead Meadow, the New Year, Liars, Deerhoof, Breather Resist, and about a trillion others. |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:58 |
Thus proving my more recent points that indie rock has become more about fashion then attitude, music, or politics. |
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There's nothing fresh about it. Everyone wants to sound exactly like what they are hearing on the radio. |
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Everyone wants to sound exactly like what they are hearing on the radio. |
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I don't know any of these bands.. |
MorningStar wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 08:57 |
ok- so I 've been checking out some of the bands mentioned in this thread... I think I need El Presidente to give me a list of whats hot at the moment... and start from the top down... From what I'm gathering, its more about an attitude. I havent been blown away by the originality of anything I've heard so far. Some of its cool, but nothing ground breaking. and why can't anyone sing anymore? Whats the deal. Where all all the good singers?? |
MorningStar wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 08:57 |
I think I need El Presidente to give me a list of whats hot at the moment... |
cdr-1 wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 09:18 |
"indy rock is just bad punk" |
j.hall wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 09:40 |
more recent stuff that's caught my attention bullet train to vegas the valley arena new black minus the bear the life and times |
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since it doesn't, i'd have to say that "alt country" is just bad punk. |
pg666 wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 11:25 | ||
haha. i'd also call alt-country "an excuse to drink. a lot." to answer the question "where are the great singers?"... Shannonwright Spoon Cat Power Electrelane Open Hand probably a bunch more i can't think of yup |
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Open Hand - YES YES YES- is this indie??? |
j.hall wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 12:34 |
indie rock has never been about vocal talent. if we are going to talk about vocals as it relates ti indie rock this is the most true statement: indie rock is mostly about what you have to say, not how in tune you say it. |
j.hall wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 11:34 |
indie rock has never been about vocal talent. if we are going to talk about vocals as it relates ti indie rock this is the most true statement: indie rock is mostly about what you have to say, not how in tune you say it. |
j.hall wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 12:34 |
indie rock has never been about vocal talent. if we are going to talk about vocals as it relates ti indie rock this is the most true statement: indie rock is mostly about what you have to say, not how in tune you say it. |
MorningStar wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 12:13 |
Oh boy... I hate to even say this then- but it comes back to image and attitude then doesn't it?? Talent isnt really part of it. Its all about what I have to say and how I'm getting my message across.. |
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So just to tie this in to what I think the point of the forum is. The real question is How do we go about capturing that "message" on tape (hard drives, whatever..) |
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Now I really hate to say this but doesnt it really tie into the Albini philosphy of just being the guy that captures what the artist is, without imparting any of my own sound to it?? |
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Wouldnt the point be to stay out of the way and let the artist create?? |
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Gear becomes less important then doesnt it. |
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And I still want to know when music stopped being about talent. |
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I cant get away with sucking as an engineer. Can I create a sound where out of phase drums is how I express myself. |
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Oh boy... I hate to even say this then- but it comes back to image and attitude then doesn't it?? Talent isnt really part of it. |
MorningStar wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 18:13 |
So just to tie this in to what I think the point of the forum is. The real question is How do we go about capturing that "message" on tape (hard drives, whatever..) Now I really hate to say this but doesnt it really tie into the Albini philosphy of just being the guy that captures what the artist is, without imparting any of my own sound to it?? Wouldnt the point be to stay out of the way and let the artist create?? Gear becomes less important then doesnt it. |
garretg wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 13:06 |
There's a big different between talent and skill. I guess that's the thing... Ira from Yo La Tengo has gobs of singing talent, but there's no way he'd make the first cut of american idol. I do think singing talent is part of indie rock. But keeping exactly on pitch, having a rich timbre to your voice, etc., are not necessarily requirements. In indie rock circles, timing & delivery, feeling & energy, are more important than having a voice that can span 6 octaves. There are great singers in indie rock circles that can do both. Ted Leo comes to mind again.... the folks in Stereolab, Jeff Tweedy from Wilco, to name a few. They all have voices I'd enjoy hearing read the phone book. It's interesting to see the issue of "declining skills" turning up often on these forums. I'm someone who I think has talent, but not a lot of skill... so for me the recording process is about capturing whatever magic I can create with the limited skills I have. That's rather punk, I think. |
Fabricoh35 wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 21:37 |
Morningstar, I give you something to check out. Go listen to Archers of Loaf (old) and then Crooked Fingers (new). Same guys fronts both bands. Let me know what you think. I don't want to influence your thoughts so I won't say anymore. Eric knew what was coming back on the Vee Vee album when he sang "the underground is overcrowded". |
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And I still want to know when music stopped being about talent. |
Fabricoh35 wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 20:37 |
Eric knew what was coming back on the Vee Vee album when he sang "the underground is overcrowded". |
ivan40 wrote on Sat, 25 February 2006 15:20 |
Anything that generates forward motion in music is cool with me. |
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morningstar wrote: And I still want to know when music stopped being about talent. |
j.hall wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 15:18 |
so i have a question. since i'm the moderator, and i created the focus and direction of this forum, i'm curious. is my own band "indie rock" i'd like to hear some honest thoughts. do i "practice what i preach" http://www.thesecretclubhouse.com/ http://www.myspace.com/secretclub |
j.hall wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 16:18 |
so i have a question. since i'm the moderator, and i created the focus and direction of this forum, i'm curious. is my own band "indie rock" i'd like to hear some honest thoughts. do i "practice what i preach" http://www.thesecretclubhouse.com/ http://www.myspace.com/secretclub |
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i'd like to hear some honest thoughts. do i "practice what i preach" |
j.hall wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 21:08 | ||||
that's an awesome attitude to have! good post Ivan!
we can all point the finger at autotune, beat detective, sound replacer, the ability to punch in, copy and paste, multi-track. but all that is technology improving the speed at which we can do our jobs as engineers. |
j.hall wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 21:08 |
the real answer is......as soon as music became a product that was mass marketed to a specific demographic. from that point forward, it's been a slippery slope to simply feed the machine what it wants, regardless of quality.......it's all about quantity and that age old top seller......sex. and this is aperfect example of why indie rock is a movement, a way of life.....not just about bands that are unsigned. |
j.hall wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 16:18 |
is my own band "indie rock" |
TheViking wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 19:38 |
There are only two kinds of music... good music and bad music. Having an opinion is a privelage. We can all sit here and argue what is and isn't indie to us. That's relative to our own personal prefrences and opinions. J and I both like the Counting Crows and they are not considered to be 'indie'. We just like them because we like them and we have our own personal reasons for liking them. So, because we like a certain band or don't like a certain band, does that make us more or less indie? I like Sunny Day Real Estate and Fugazi because I heard them and liked what I heard. So, because I like those bands, does that make me indie... apparently not... I like other bands that are too mainstream and they take away my 'indie points''??? I think this is the confusion that MorningStar is getting at. The Promise Rong and Sense Field played a show near me and I went to check them out with a friend back in the late 90's and I liked both bands. I even dug Davy's whole lisp pitchy vocals... because I believed every word coming out of his mouth. He meant it and that's more important than anything to me IMO. |
TheViking wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 19:38 |
There are only two kinds of music... good music and bad music. Having an opinion is a privelage. We can all sit here and argue what is and isn't indie to us. That's relative to our own personal prefrences and opinions. J and I both like the Counting Crows and they are not considered to be 'indie'. We just like them because we like them and we have our own personal reasons for liking them. So, because we like a certain band or don't like a certain band, does that make us more or less indie? I like Sunny Day Real Estate and Fugazi because I heard them and liked what I heard. So, because I like those bands, does that make me indie... apparently not... I like other bands that are too mainstream and they take away my 'indie points''??? I think this is the confusion that MorningStar is getting at. The Promise Rong and Sense Field played a show near me and I went to check them out with a friend back in the late 90's and I liked both bands. I even dug Davy's whole lisp pitchy vocals... because I believed every word coming out of his mouth. He meant it and that's more important than anything to me IMO. |
scottoliphant wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 22:06 |
what's a real rock record? hah what color blue is the sky? how spicy is that curry? |
TheViking wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 18:38 |
So, because I like those bands, does that make me indie... |
TheViking wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 23:55 |
so... we're basically talking about a genre with no rules, boundaries, guidelines or any structure to speak of. Yet some know what is indie and what isn't. This logic is dizzying. Also, at what point does a band like Death Cab for Cutie cease being indie? When I was in high school, it was a really big deal when all of our favorite (dare I say 'indie') bands became mainstream. REM will be my example as I was a huge fan even before Out of Time and Automatic for the People. I remember seeing the band on the tour of the Monster record and friends of mine telling me that REM were 'sellouts' and all the fans at the show I was at were 'posers'. This logic is also dizying and not worth my time to try to figure out. Success and failure are two drastic opposites. 'Indie Rock' sounds like it's a genre rooted in glorified failure because as soon as you find success, you are disowned by the very people who got you there. Dizying. |
TheViking wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 22:55 |
Dizying. |
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'Indie Rock' sounds like it's a genre rooted in glorified failure because as soon as you find success, you are disowned by the very people who got you there. |
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Led Zep II? Who's Next? Appetite for Destruction? AIC- Dirt? Black Crowes- Southern Harmony? Foo Fighters One by One? Audioslave? Superunknown? Ten? and the sky is sky blue- That was an easy one |
floodstage wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 17:28 |
If they had a singer that sang instead of yelling/screaming with little attention to tune, they'd be bigger than U2. |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 16:58 |
1. I hate labels. music is music, art is art. IMO, labeling it only draws lines, and puts things into boxes. That behavior only creates static boundaries that inhibit creativity and expression. However, without some sort of general reference we would have a really hard time communicating. Thus labels come into play. I did not coin the term "indie rock" nor, emo, garage, punk, screamo, hardcore, grindcore......etc...... Nor did I place certain ideas, sounds, concepts into the definition of "indie rock" or any of the other terms. My use of that term is merely to communicate to others like me, where I’m coming from. Unfortunately, saying "I’m an indie rocker" carries meaning with others like me. It’s like telling a group of random people, "I’m a boy scout" then you end up weeding out all the other people that are not boy scouts and you can now hang out with like minded people. So, I use this term for the purpose of communication. The negative side of advocating its use I’ve already typed, and I accept those. |
Fabricoh35 wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 21:37 |
Morningstar, I give you something to check out. Go listen to Archers of Loaf (old) and then Crooked Fingers (new). Same guys fronts both bands. Let me know what you think. I don't want to influence your thoughts so I won't say anymore. Eric knew what was coming back on the Vee Vee album when he sang "the underground is overcrowded". |
TheViking wrote on Tue, 28 February 2006 09:07 |
Answer the questions!!! |
pg666 wrote on Tue, 28 February 2006 10:43 |
is 'bitches brew' a jazz record? who was the first heavy metal band? are weezer emo? do these pants make me look fat? not everything fits neatly into a category and that's not exclusive to indie rock. it's also not that interesting. there are a lot of common traits you find in indie rock (especially when talking about peoples' approach to music) and that is interesting imo. i think plenty of people gave MorningStar genuine answers and all they got back were stubborn dissmissals and a slightly condescending attitude, so they quit trying. |
scottoliphant wrote on Tue, 28 February 2006 12:05 |
i think you are totally overthinking it. it's not a secret club. it's just music. different people play different types of music. it's not an enigma code that needs breaking. you keep trying to apply rules to it, which would be hard for any type of music, and what a stressful way to enjoy music. you either get it or you don't, and you don't |
j hall wrote |
fibes, xonlocust and i once spent many hours discussing this topic. we sorta came up with the analogy that indie rock, anymore, has become a secret society completely on accident. perhaps not on accident. a syndicate if you will. |
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If you play lead guitar on a cd your not indie. If you care too much about pitch your not indie. If you sell too many records, your not indie. |
MorningStar wrote on Tue, 28 February 2006 10:59 | ||
This was rather interesting. Suprising its the same guy. I'm not sure what to make of that. To me it sounds like 2 different guys. |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 28 February 2006 12:30 |
i think the rock n roll world is fascinated by indie rock because of this. it's like you all went to sleep one night while we stayed up and created a mystery. you aren't really that interested in living it real time, but the human experience eggs on your desire to be "in the know". i can't live that moment where i put metallica down and picked up fugazi for you. i can't live, the countless times i went to all ages shows and raised my fist in the air to the pulsing sounds of what i thought was a revolution, for you. i can't consume your life with fan-zines, basement record stores, hard to find 7"s, mail order catalogues from touch and go, and years of word of mouth communication prior to the internet, for you. |
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You have an interesting way of romanticizing marketing. Which is all you are really talking about here. |
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Defining a band by their studded belts and chain wallets doesn't sound very educated... or musical. |
scottoliphant wrote on Tue, 28 February 2006 16:19 | ||||
and one more thing
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shudder to think - pony express record |
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Just because it happens other places doesn't make it more or less acceptible. Shouldn't we be striving for more as musicians and music lovers??? I'm a musician. Not a scenester or a male model. I'm not suggesting that things will change or that we should start some kind of crusade either. I'm just challenging people to think about why they believe what they believe. |
scottoliphant wrote on Tue, 28 February 2006 18:46 |
I personally missed the fashion boat (ask my wife), and don't see why it's necessary to ever wear anything other than a pair of comfortable jeans and a t shirt. Most of the musicians i know (myself included) don't dress their scene "part". I remember thinking in my old band when the skinny kids with tossled hair and really tight t shirts started showing up in droves, our band was starting to get somewhere (even though i didn't get it). |