Post by: strangeandbouncy on November 27, 2008, 07:03:27 PM
I may have got my hands on a bargain C12 - but it is without its capsule!
Any suggestion as to where I might find one would be most welcome!
Who might re-skin a dead one these days? Failing finding the real deal, does anyone make anything even close to the original? I believe that Haun is similar, but is it any good? Where do all the clones source theirs? Surely they can't all be NOS?
In a pinch, I could always chuck something cheap in (i.e. Peluso [?]), or perhaps my spare Gefell M7 or homemade Debenham, Stebbings, and Robinson capsule just to get it running, and wait for a real one to come along.
Just how different is a "new" CK12? I know from regular and long-time experience that, for instance, C12VR is a piece of unmitigated, staggering boredom compared to C12, but I would still say that it is quite a good mic, if acquired for a song! Would it be possible to fit any of these (physically) in real C12?
Any advice would be most gratefully appreciated, as ever!
Kindest regards,
ANdyP
Post by: J.J. Blair on November 28, 2008, 12:34:07 AM
Post by: Klaus Heyne on November 28, 2008, 02:19:07 AM
The usual sources for CK12: dilapidated or scavenged C12A, and all kinds of C412, C414 comb and C414 EB up to the series when the bodies turned from silver to black.
Yes, you could try the C12VR capsule (which is identical to the 414 TLII capsule in your mic. You will need another mount (easy to obtain) and you will not quite get the fabulous CK12 sound, but it may indeed limp you through nicely until you find a genuine CK12.
Post by: strangeandbouncy on November 28, 2008, 05:41:26 AM
All the best, ANdyP
Post by: Tim Campbell on November 28, 2008, 09:10:55 AM
I disagree that all copies or remembraned versions of this capsule sound dismal. People manufacturing versions of this capsule would include myself, MBHO, Red, Josephson, Flea and I'm sure others that aren't on the tip of my tongue right now. All of these companies, including myself and a long list of others , repair these capsules.
I've heard, and others on this forum have stated that they've encountered copies or repairs that sound as good as original versions they own.
I'm afraid, given the state of availibilty of these capsules, that if you're waiting for someone to offer one for sale (that hasn't been repaired)for a reasonable price you'll be waiting quite a long time.
Post by: J.J. Blair on November 28, 2008, 12:13:34 PM
Post by: Tim Campbell on November 28, 2008, 12:34:11 PM
Anyone is free to contact me outside this forum but I try to do my best to not solicit business here.
Post by: Klaus Heyne on November 28, 2008, 02:42:04 PM
| Tim Campbell wrote on Fri, 28 November 2008 06:10 |
I disagree that all copies or remembraned versions of this capsule sound dismal. People manufacturing versions of this capsule would include myself, MBHO, Red, Josephson, Flea and I'm sure others that aren't on the tip of my tongue right now. |
Tim,
Let's go through your list of vendors, because I am curious and eager to update my knowledge:
* Josephson. As far as I know, he exclusively delivers CK12-style capsules to a small mic manufacturer in L.A. I am not aware that you can send him your CK12 and he will reskin it (David?)
* MBHO makes variations, not exact copies, of the CK12 for another small manufacturer in L.A. I am not aware that he takes in original CK12 repairs for re-diaphragming.
* Flea manufactures and (re)diaphragms complete capsules? I was under the impression that he uses Thiersch's CK12 skinning (not quite there in CK-12 sound autheticity, as far as I am concerned.)
* I have not yet heard of RED CK12 diaphragming jobs.
Please enlighten us!
Post by: Tim Campbell on November 28, 2008, 03:23:26 PM
You're right about the re-diaphraming. I mention these manufacturers and too hastily included them in my list of repairers.
In a long ago conversation with David Josephson he mentioned he could re-diaphram a capsule for me. These days I'm sure he's much too busy with his own products.
The same is true for MBHO. Many years ago Norbert Sobol mentioned that Haun had re-diaphramed some capsules for AKG but I know for a fact that they're much too busy these days to do this sort of work.
A direct quote from Flea's website states that their C12 clone is "equipped with an FK12 capsule which is our own exact replica of a CK12 capsule." They don't however mention re-membraning capsules.
There does seem to be , however, a long growing list of people that purport to re-diaphram these capsules to "original spec". I have no idea what kind of quality service they provide.
I only know that if I believed that it was impossible to manufacture a new version of a capsule or remembrane one to sound as good as it was originally manufactured I wouldn't spend any more of my time doing it.
Post by: Klaus Heyne on November 28, 2008, 03:37:07 PM
| Tim Campbell wrote on Fri, 28 November 2008 12:23 |
I only know that if I believed that it was impossible to manufacture a new version of a capsule or remembrane one to sound as good as it was originally manufactured I wouldn't spend any more of my time doing it. |
Looking forward to receiving and testing your CK12 version and sharing my findings!
Post by: nob turner on November 29, 2008, 12:15:18 AM
klaus is not the only guy who would like to know that your ck12's sound great. if you are confident of them, i think it would be worth your while to let klaus, or jj, or someone else of repute try one out. the resulting P.R. would undoubtedly help you out, if you are looking for work/sales.
james gangwer told me that the ck12's from 414EB's don't mount in a C12/C24 properly. is this not so?
(Maybe James can post his difficulties? I had not encountered problems so far. K.H.)
Post by: J.J. Blair on November 29, 2008, 02:33:04 AM
Post by: Barry Hufker on November 29, 2008, 03:39:58 AM
I finally ended up with two - or should I say one and a half. In any event, it is not a process I'd happily go through again.
Barry
Post by: MagnetoSound on November 29, 2008, 07:00:03 AM
| Barry Hufker wrote on Sat, 29 November 2008 08:39 |
One person told me he wouldn't be selling any before he died. I offered to kill him if it would speed things along... |
Hmm, things are getting grisly out there!
Post by: Donn Halliburton on December 01, 2008, 11:41:26 PM
Donn
Post by: k.wasley on March 03, 2009, 05:51:07 AM
| Klaus Heyne wrote on Fri, 28 November 2008 14:37 | ||
Looking forward to receiving and testing your CK12 version and sharing my findings! |
Have you received this yet? Excited and interested to hear your opinion.
Post by: Frankenheimer on March 03, 2009, 12:12:23 PM
rgds.
Franz
Post by: k.wasley on March 03, 2009, 01:10:52 PM
It is good to know however that there are happy customers.
Post by: Klaus Heyne on March 03, 2009, 01:40:37 PM
| k.wasley wrote on Tue, 03 March 2009 02:51 |
Have you received this yet? Excited and interested to hear your opinion. |
Received but not tested yet.
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 03, 2009, 01:55:11 PM
Post by: k.wasley on March 03, 2009, 04:01:55 PM
kind regards
Post by: Tim Campbell on March 03, 2009, 04:10:35 PM
greater things."-Ranier Maria Rilke
I look forward to constructive critism or favorable opinions of my work. I've especially appreciated getting to know JJ Blair these past few weeks and his feedback has been invaluable to me. I hope I've managed to match his benchmark from listening to a soundfile, but if not I may still be able to muster up the energy to tweak another capsule.
Ultimately, the most important and telling opinion comes from customers. I have done work for members of this forum who, for whatever reason haven't joined in this discussion. I am accommodating. If someone can give me a clear idea of what they want,then of course that is my goal in doing work for them.
Post by: strangeandbouncy on March 04, 2009, 05:59:45 AM
I have had a capsule from Tim. I am in the middle of an album, having worked 16 hours a day since the New Year. Every day. I am desperate to try it out, and post my opinion. Soon to come and I am sorry not to have done so yet!
Kindest regards,
ANdyP
Post by: strangeandbouncy on March 05, 2009, 11:07:05 AM
I have no AKG mics made with CK12 to play with at present. I am planning to build a C12 copy using Flea body. . . . One day . . . . In the meantime, I have bought an Alctron crappy tube mic to play with, and have put Tim's most recent capsule in, and swapped 12AX7B for a GE 6072 five star. I will re-build the electronics along the lines of the C12VR mod so generously provided by Oliver. I haven't even reduced the capsule voltage yet, and it sounds incredibly promising! I won't say any more 'til I have converted it further.
Immediate impressions count for a lot in my book, and they are very favourable indeed! Thank you Tim!
Kindest regards, ANdyP
Post by: djosephson on March 17, 2009, 09:59:58 PM
While it is surely possible for someone to get up to speed to do individual capsules, it's many hours to get one right. Repairing a damaged one takes longer than building a new one from fresh parts, because you have no idea what trauma has happened to what you have, nor do you know much about what kind of diaphragm it needs to perform properly. So the idea that you can just "re-skin" a CK12 is a bit far-fetched. Yes, you can put on any diaphragm and it will work, but to get it close to a real CK12 is only possible if you have the facilities and are willing to put in the time and energy.
As far as the variants of CK12 capsule, there are two main ones: Stephen Paul described them in a magazine article as "shallow dish" (earlier) and "deep dish" (later). The deep dish is almost universally preferred. Deep and shallow refer to an internal dimension of some of the damping chambers, which is not visible unless the capsule is disassembled. Other visible variants are the color of lacquer, if any, used on the outside (not significant for sound), material the diaphragm ring is made of and other bits. More critical are internal variations which are often not visible even if you take the capsule apart.
Post by: Tim Campbell on March 19, 2009, 03:17:38 AM
Just so no one gets the wrong impression from David's post, I've been working with CK12 capsules and rediaphraming them for more than 10 years. I think I have email going back that far with David on this very subject.
It seems too often these days that if a task isn't fairly easy to do it quickly gets labelled as impossible or near impossible. People from all walks of life manage to accomplish things much harder and more complex than tuning a piece of plastic film properly and glueing it to a metal ring.
Post by: Giles Jeremy on March 19, 2009, 09:26:42 AM
Hear hear!!
Thanks Tim for that refreshingly down to earth but inspiring reminder of the wonder of human endeavour!
Looking forward to using one of your capsules as soon as I can.
Giles
Post by: Frankenheimer on March 19, 2009, 01:24:48 PM
We're using it right now as room mic on a 451E body + ck4 housing. Session Photo attached.
rgds.
Franz
Post by: strangeandbouncy on March 19, 2009, 06:19:02 PM
I have not yet converted my Alctron (with Tim's Capsule) to Oliver's C12VR mod electronics. I had to record a breathy female backing vocal a couple of days ago, and reached for my new Lash-up Alctron instead of any of my other mics. I would dearly have loved to have done a comparison with a C12 or any other mic with a CK12. All I can relate is that it worked staggeringly well, leaving a stunning performance(in a backing vocal!) in it's wake. I can honestly say that it screams C12, and that is even with crappy chinese electronics, giving far too high a polarising voltage to the capsule. - even with cathode follower it rocks. Period.
I do accept that to make any comparison where NOTHING is in common, is folly, but something is definately going on here.
If someone in south of England has a C12, C412, C414, C12A, or 251, and is happy to let me swap out Tim's capsule for a direct comparison, then I can make a scientific appraisal. Until then, I can only give a "visceral" appraisal, based only on my memory of favoured mics. My gut instinct tells me that Tim's capsule is awesome. I have the results on tape to prove it.
Kindest regards,
ANdyP
Post by: Klaus Heyne on March 20, 2009, 02:18:42 PM
So this would be an apples-to-apples comparison.
I hopefully will have time to write up something about the test results soon.
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 20, 2009, 11:32:25 PM
Post by: maarvold on April 10, 2009, 11:29:53 PM
| Klaus Heyne wrote on Fri, 20 March 2009 11:18 |
I will test two of Tim's CK12 capsule-restorations (the ones in the pictures he posted) in actual C12 mics which are equipped with superb, stock CK12s. So this would be an apples-to-apples comparison. I hopefully will have time to write up something about the test results soon. |
Klaus,
Any progress in this endeavor? I've been interested to find out what you think. And I'm hoping to be able to do an 'apples to apples' comparison between one of Tim's capsules and an original CK12 myself within the next month or so. But I have some mic component decisions before I get to this. I want to make sure the 2 mics are as identical (other than the capsules) as I can get them.
Post by: Tim Campbell on April 11, 2009, 04:03:37 AM
I understand your objection to this post and so have removed it. I only meant to report my own experiences last week. Sorry about this.
Post by: Barry Hufker on April 11, 2009, 11:06:20 AM
Barry
Post by: Klaus Heyne on April 11, 2009, 02:33:27 PM
Your 'report' straddles the line to advertisement, and uses third-party testimonials. Both are unappreciated in this forum.
But your post bugs me for another reason: I find these "trade show tests" notoriously unreliable because of the completely unsuitable environment for critical listening: unknown equipment, too much reverberant content, half the time the headphones are polarity-reversed...
I think your original idea of sending your test capsules to individual users of whom you ask for critical feedback after critical listening in their own, familiar and optimized listening environments makes a lot more sense towards perfecting a product. (I will do my part in that regard here shortly.)
At least at HiFi shows exhibitors, who can afford it, go through the effort of installing isolated and acoustically treated listening rooms, and let listeners bring source material they are familiar with.
I am amazed but not surprised that microphone exhibitors at trade shows keep doing this. Many of them go along with the protocol because show attendees keep coming and keep making serious, knowing facial expressions after such comparisons. Yet, many exhibitors shrug their shoulders and keep obliging. Who wants to argue with congratulatory affirmations to the exhibitor when he wins the test?
Post by: maarvold on April 11, 2009, 04:18:59 PM
| Klaus Heyne wrote on Sat, 11 April 2009 11:33 |
...I think your original idea of sending your test capsules to individual users of whom you ask for critical feedback after critical listening in their own, familiar and optimized listening environments makes a lot more sense towards perfecting a product. (I will do my part in that regard here shortly.)... |
Tim hasn't asked me for feedback on the 2 CK12-type capsules I bought, but I will provide it at the point where I feel I can be accurate and concise. And Klaus, I'm glad you'll get to an evaluation shortly, although I presume yours will be on a reskin. For me, getting the time, resources and opportunity to really evaluate something properly can sometimes take several months. But that doesn't mean I'm not impatient.
Post by: k.wasley on August 29, 2009, 01:56:54 PM
| Klaus Heyne wrote on Fri, 28 November 2008 14:37 | ||
Looking forward to receiving and testing your CK12 version and sharing my findings! |
Hi Klaus. I've been waiting patiently for you to voice your findings. Was wondering whether it might happen soon?
Post by: Klaus Heyne on August 29, 2009, 03:06:01 PM
The workmanship was very good. No diaphragm wrinkles, glue remnants or inclusions (tiny foreign particles lodged between diaphragm and backplate.)
The four sides of the two capsules all sounded quite different from one another, where it was hard for me to grasp an average.
Tim and I agreed that I should have sent backplates/capsules whose condition and sub-components were better known up-front to compare the sonic outcome, which, in this case, was ok but not quite comparable to the sound of a well-working, original CK12.
He generously offered to redo these two capsules. I suggested a different path: to send him capsules whose sub-components are in better shape as building blocks for his work.
I am about to send off a couple of mid-sixties CK12 of which I have a better sense as to their suitability to a reskin. These capsules should be a better test case to evaluate the outcome.
Bottom line: at this point I have no clear impression whether Tim has currently achieved the excellence in the vein of a good AKG CK12.
But one thing is already clear: Tim is very easy to discuss these matters with; he is open to suggestions, and has never been offended or defensive when we discussed my comments and his path towards excellence. He also has another trait I value highly: he does not speak ill about his competitors or customers. He freely admits that he is eager to learn the trade until he has it right. To that end, he keeps calling me, inviting me to send him capsules, and critique his work.
I believe Tim strives hard to hopefully succeed soon in supplying reskins with comparable quality to original CK12.
Post by: k.wasley on August 29, 2009, 05:35:50 PM
Thanks again
Post by: jrmintz on August 29, 2009, 07:30:29 PM
Seth
Post by: Lars Danielsson on September 23, 2009, 06:28:52 PM
capsule?
Do you also think his capsule would work in AKG 414 EB?
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on September 24, 2009, 09:06:23 PM
I have just ordered some capsules from Tim Campbell.
I must concur with everyone that he was a real pleasure to deal with.
He was always easy to deal with and nice-
I am replying because I in fact ordered two 414-style mount capsules from him. So I can answer that I do beleive he does offer that version of mount. Perhaps he can confirm. He also offers "Mounts" for the capsules in C12 version-
Very handy as this can be difficult to find/machine. Not to mention you have to find the correct screws..
At the SO reasonable price Tims is offering I think now would be an exellent time to jump on that- I have not heard them yet but I will report as soon as they are installed in microphones-
-j
Post by: Frankenheimer on September 25, 2009, 03:43:08 AM
Franz
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on October 04, 2009, 11:12:24 AM
I should be testing them within a few weeks-
Have you seen JJ's comments abut them?
-j
Post by: Frankenheimer on October 05, 2009, 02:17:07 AM
Post by: brett on October 14, 2009, 02:14:18 AM
| Frankenheimer wrote on Fri, 25 September 2009 08:43 |
Of course the capsule will work in the 414EB. You get the capsule with the frame to mount it on the surface. Use the washer you have already (solder + - and gnd - not too hot !!!).Also my challenge was very hard to it the capsule in the CK4 housing. But it works perfect. We use it almost a year on every session. It has its own magic and every band was astonished how precise the details were delivered. Franz |
what did you mount the CK4 to a C60...C28? do you have the original N60A?
Post by: Frankenheimer on October 14, 2009, 04:35:58 PM
Post by: brett on October 15, 2009, 07:16:19 PM
Post by: Lars Danielsson on October 19, 2009, 01:43:02 PM
I just got my 414 EB with Tim´s capsule and it sounds amazing.
I ran it through my V76 preamp..
Very happy
Lars
Post by: Frankenheimer on October 20, 2009, 07:24:01 AM
| brett wrote on Fri, 16 October 2009 01:16 |
Yes, I realize you did not mention the C60. I was under the impression the CK4 was an optional basket and capsule and did not come on a mic. So, I am asking what you use it with and how does it sound? thanks-Brett |
Consider it to be my third 414 to my existing ones.(414 Comb.). They sound pretty the same. We used all three together in the last session. My two combs. are a matched pair.But Tims capsule matches very good with a C451E body.(also matched).
And of course, the sound is fantastic.(Consider a C12 - never sounding the same to other ones - we have two - and both sounding different.Of course. It's the same with the CK26 (old ones) and the last ones build - they sound very different - don't hang on too much on comparing to an aged CK12 - it doesn't make sense at all)
Rgds.
Franz
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on October 20, 2009, 07:51:54 PM
Post by: synthetic on October 20, 2009, 08:39:47 PM
Jeff Laity
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on October 20, 2009, 08:56:45 PM
It seems what people really want is a microphone to record with not a capsule. If you want parts I have no idea if he does that. I understand there are times where parts are needed, but most of the inquiry seems to be from people who want to put it together as a system. In this case, buy a vintage CK12, or gab David's 251 as a system. Plus you can easily try it without even soldering.
I am glad that Tim's capsules are available also, and look forward to hearing them..j
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on November 06, 2009, 04:22:25 PM
I hope to get them rolling quickly-
First impression is exellent- Tim's packing and Packaging was a fun pleasure to receive-
The Diaphrams have that Amber color of some vintage CK12's- And I have seen several capsules shipped but I have never seen it done as well as Tim does -- I have high hopes for these if they sound as good as they look I think they will be more than fine-
Thanks Tim!
j
Post by: Matt Allen on November 10, 2009, 07:16:38 PM
After I get it evaluated, I'm probably going to to buy one of Tim's capsules if it turns out to be a capsule problem.
I'm interested to hear more results about them.
Post by: Klaus Heyne on November 11, 2009, 01:51:42 AM
Post by: Matt Allen on November 11, 2009, 12:41:07 PM
I will certainly keep the capsule with the intention of restoration.
thanks for the thought.
Post by: nob turner on November 29, 2009, 05:29:05 PM
| seedyunderbelly.com wrote on Fri, 06 November 2009 13:22 |
I Just picked up my Tim Campbell capsules from Post- I hope to get them rolling quickly- j |
so john... any comments on the ct12's?
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on November 30, 2009, 08:23:35 AM
Post by: Barry Hufker on March 19, 2010, 10:01:30 AM
It is really quite wonderful.
My students and I installed one in a rebuilt microphone (Bulldog mod of a Chinese mic -- mentioned only for context). Testing the capsule on male/female voice and piano, I found the highs to be sweet, never harsh or "zingy". The mids were smooth and the bass firm.
We tested the capsule in cardioid and bidirectional. Bidirectional sounded uniform throughout with excellent rejection at 90 and 270 degrees. Cardioid also sounded good with very good rejection at the rear. We found (for us) a very nice tonal balance at a couple of clicks past cardioid (supercardioid?) towards bidirectional. There the sound was airy (never strident), "liquid" (sorry about the hi-fi term)with a firm, full bass.
The microphone with this fine capsule (and replaced electronics) is already finding use at school. Based on my experience and these tests, the mic will sound good on vocals and many other instruments.
I'm really excited about the work Tim is doing.
Barry
Post by: Frankenheimer on March 19, 2010, 08:26:25 PM
Can link a sound sample from yesterday's session.(Only room mic)
Used as room mic with C451E/CK4/CT12 (no bass roll off) body.
So figure eight on a V76/80 preamp.
Lynx aurora 8 converter.
24/44100.
No outboard used.
It is also a precious mono overhead.
Source was drums and bongos.
Franz