ATOR wrote on Thu, 12 June 2008 18:11 |
The song has great vibe and character and I just let it take me to where it wanted to be. I dropped the stereo drums, re-amped some guitars, the bass and the drums. The drums needed that to get some focus. My mix is kinda noisy but that doesn't bother me. Half the time I spend on this was on editing. This is a classic we'll fix it in the mix recording |
dconstruction wrote on Thu, 12 June 2008 14:07 |
some of the really dry and close mixes make me uncomfortable. |
Chris Ilett wrote on Thu, 12 June 2008 21:02 |
Look forward to hearing some of these. Gave J's a quick skip through - like the sampled guitar line. (You cut that and copied it to infinity, right? I didn't just miss it...?). |
M Carter wrote on Fri, 13 June 2008 06:27 |
I'm gonna try and get through these this weekend. I did some edits on mine, far more than usual. Tightened up the two drum sets so there were less clams bet ween them. Took a bunch of what felt unnecessary out of the 'piano bridge', and tripled up on the background vox to make the bridge a little more dynamic. On a quick listen, it sounds like a lot of people (myself included) had issues dealing with the bass. While it's not omnipresent in any of them, it's practically non-existent in a few. Thoughts? Matt |
SingSing wrote on Fri, 13 June 2008 04:50 |
FYI ATOR just informed me (thank you very much) that my submission link isn't working and I quickly found that I missed /files in the URL. My submission is listed in the IMP directory, so you can get it from there (imp18_singsing.mp3). Cheers, Stefan SingSing |
Chris Ilett wrote on Fri, 13 June 2008 10:04 | ||
YUP! Gregs sounds pretty good here though. |
M Carter wrote on Fri, 13 June 2008 13:27 |
On a quick listen, it sounds like a lot of people (myself included) had issues dealing with the bass. While it's not omnipresent in any of them, it's practically non-existent in a few. Thoughts? Matt |
Greg Thompson |
Yours sounds like a "remix". It's great! I would hazard to say that you might get some wildly differing opinions when you play it for the band. Half would hate it, half would love it. The band would break up. It would be awesome. |
dconstruction |
While ATOR's mix is (expectedly) a pretty far reach for the band |
dconstruction |
I'm more of a producer than an engineer anyway - or at least I expend my energy more in the former direction than the later. This band, on this song, had no parts other than the acoustic and vocal. Everything else is a strong and sometimes explicit (i.e., I played it) suggestion from me. Which is good, because that's what I like doing. So, as an exercise, I undid all my arrangement edits before putting these tracks together for the IMP. I used the outro drums in the beginning, got rid of the horribly played electric guitar in the verses (which, shockingly, some of you have really highlighted; man, I hate that part). I delayed the entrance of the bass, shuffled the bridge guitars around and completely chopped up the beatbox performances (some of his triplets and 'ksshhh!' cymbals were distracting) - all sorts of edits which you guys didn't get. I wanted to see how many of you heard what I heard. |
dconstruction wrote on Fri, 13 June 2008 21:24 |
First, Peter: I hope you know, I never said I didn't like your mix (actually, I do; a lot), but a "no frills" mix it is not (Rankus wins that title, clearly) and likely not one that's going to make the album. But onto this question. No, I do not think it is easier and faster to get the arrangement done first. And maybe it's misleading to say I "came up with most of the parts." I suggested most of the parts. E.g.: "This section is too spare; let's fill it in with an organ part - get the chords down while I mic it up." "What does everyone think about beatboxing over the end? Crazy, right? Yeah, yeah: go do it. Here's a mic." "I think we should add some piano over the bridge, something simple - wait, what did you just play? Play that again. Yeah, that's great. Let me set it up." "We should really pare down the electric guitars. Would you stop playing, please?" This sort of free-associated improvisation in the studio is what is fun for me, and most effective for my method of working, and the bands I record. Besides, the edits weren't done after the recording (well, technically they were), but during: the inception, recording and editing of the part is one process. Some stolid, measured, planned and scheduled arrangement might yield better technical results, and maybe even better parts, eventually - but there's no way the band has the patience or ego (or ability or money) to wait on me to come up with charts, hand them to them and ask them to play. I work fast, loose, and in cooperation with the band (or I make it seem like cooperation). YMMV, but this is the method that works for me. L |
Quote: |
By Fiasco: imdrecordings - I thought this a very good/organic mix; nice separation with the drum tracks; clave too hot, almost to the point of distraction; the piano stuck out a bit too much as well; harmonies flangey?, phasey? |
imdrecordings wrote on Fri, 13 June 2008 17:28 |
... just my cup-O tea. Thanks Phillip! |
ATOR wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 23:04 |
This is what came to mind when listening to the mixes. Antman Nice acoustic guitar at intro. Vocals doubling is overdone. Bass is like a ghost. Vocal is buried at times. A very gentle mix. Choir is very loud. The guitars at the end make a mess. |
Antman wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 17:15 | ||
Could you explain what you mean by vocals doubling? What's that? And in what sense is the bass like a ghost? I actually thought the bass was a little overbearing, especially when I listened to everyone elses mix, so a little more elaboration on those two points would be greatly appreciated. |
ATOR wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 11:04 |
This is what came to mind when listening to the mixes. Fiasco Low end is boomy, uncontrolled and too loud, this drowns the mix. And then at 3:30 it disappears. I listened to this mix without hearing the song, that's not a good sign. |
Quote: |
I listened to this mix without hearing the song, that's not a good sign. |
M Carter wrote on Sun, 15 June 2008 02:45 |
Antman - Vocals sound great. You kind of wimped out on the drums for my tastes. Guitars sound great though. Vox in bridge are a little loud. Piano has a nice quality to it. Nice backgrounds too. All I want are more drums! |
ATOR wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 11:04 |
This is what came to mind when listening to the mixes. Huds Balance could use more tweaking/automation. I don't like the shifted acoustic, the idea is ok but if you do it time it right. My attention gets drawn to the wrong parts like eg the beatbox in the bridge and the acoustic guitar. The vocal needs to be in the spotlight. |
ATOR wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 10:04 |
Mdifazio Aah, the old I thought it was 44k mix. It's a regular here |
mdifazio wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 12:28 | ||
Hey, I would much appreciate someone spot double checking this. First thing I did was check the readme and my Logic project shows 48k. Also it sounds like same tempo as others and beatmap shows 89 +/-. Thanks, Matt |
Greg Dixon wrote on Sun, 15 June 2008 22:36 | ||||
No problem here Matt. Sounds fine. |
Greg Thompson wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 13:25 |
the bass track: This is a candidate for explaining why you should always record a Bass DI track even if it's not in vogue these days. I probably spent the most time in the mix trying to make that bass track work. |
Greg Thompson wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 13:25 |
Great sounding vocal. What was the mic again? |
Greg Thompson wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 13:25 |
The drums... What was the intention here? |
Greg Thompson wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 13:25 |
anyway, thanks for posting this, I had a lot of fun mixing it. Greg |
osumosan wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 09:23 |
dconstruction - You DO like wet vocals. The mix sounds like it's at a soundcheck though and a couple sibilances could be tamed. Then it seems blown out when the piano comes in, but has a great build with a lovely cacophony at the end. |
ATOR wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 11:47 |
@Fiasco I now notice I have a lot of 'boomy bass' in my comments and my mix is commented to have too little bass so go figure. Always take comments with a grain of salt Basstraps are on top of my shopping list, I finished designing them last week. |
osumosan wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 10:23 |
Fiasco - This seems like the perfect amount of wet for the vox. The mix has a nice space and fills up the sonic spectrum in a very satisfying way. Strange choices at the end. |
Antman wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 09:38 |
Okay this is weird, people keep commenting on things I didn't do in my mix... |
Greg Dixon wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 17:25 |
Antman. A bit bass and drums light for me. Main acoustic might be a touch bright. Electric parts don't quite sit with the rest of it. Lack of ambience in general is making the parts feel a bit separate. Harmonies are nice. Good sounds, but disjointed. |
Fiasco wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 16:41 |
Strange good or strange bad? I felt the song should return to more of an intimate feel, like the beginning. |
J-Texas wrote on Wed, 18 June 2008 11:10 |
Back from the beach! It was great. Fiasco – A lot of extra high freqs on the vox. Lots of extra compression on the rhythm stuff. Rock stadium verb on the electric? Another no-lead acoustic… I like that. Balance is all crazy IMO. A few people really tried to change up these sounds. I think they were good to start with. Darth Vader vox at the end! Smooth ending. |
Greg Dixon wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 05:25 |
Fiasco Where are the mids? |
Fiasco wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 05:24 |
Greg Dixon - First, probably my pick so far; nice work on the bass; wanted to hear a little more top on the gits; the harmonies seemed a bit uneven?; the piano sounded fantastic; felt like the right channel was always a bit heavy. |
ATOR wrote on Sun, 15 June 2008 01:04 |
Greg Dixon Phasey guitar. I like the stereo drums. In a quiet mix like this I'd like the lead vocal sticking out more. Balance is good. |
M Carter wrote on Sun, 15 June 2008 04:45 |
Greg dixon - great mix. The guitar 'solo' on the right is a little loud with nothing else going on on left side though. Occasionally the vocal jumps out at me, but generally this mix sounds dictated by the song, which is great. Piano could come down a notch though. |
J-Texas wrote on Thu, 19 June 2008 01:10 |
Greg Dixon – Acoustic is weird leaning on the left side like that. Love hearing the bass strings against the click of the kick. Organ panning is freaking me out. I like spreading things out on this one, but I chose different panning. I think it was more of a necessity than personal opinion though. Nice piano, but too loud for me. That btb is so off beat that it is really distracting spread out. Very cool ending with the organ. |
Fiasco wrote on Fri, 13 June 2008 14:24 |
Slash - Interesting choice with the no drums; bass could have been more consistent without the drums there; ehh... I don't know about the use of the harmonies; good vocals. |
ATOR wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 10:04 |
Slash5969 I like the bonedry vocal as if he's 1 feet before me. The holding back feeling creates a great tension. Aaah, you weren't holding back, this is already it, that's too bad. I like what you did with the choir just not where and how loud you did it. |
M Carter wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 13:45 |
Slash - The lack of drums doesn't work for me. It makes it have kind of a 'demo' quality. the elements you DID use, sound really great though. I'm glad to see that someone else used the backgrounds more than once, although harmonically the placement is a little weird sometimes. |
osumosan wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 09:23 |
Slash 5969 - Acoustic is a bit over de-noised and sounds constricted. Where's the line buzz coming from? The mix is very gentle, so the really close intimate vox seems out of place, although conceptually, that would be hard to predict. All of a sudden I find myself wishing that somebody had added pseudo vinyl noise to this. Probably because this treatment seems very 70s to me. |
Greg Dixon wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 04:25 |
Slash5969 Interesting start with very dry vocal, guitar and a touch of bass. Not sure I like the electric sounds. Too dry, thin and back. To work that far back, I'd make them less bright and add some ambience. I miss the pulse of the drums. extra harmonies don't fit for me. |
J-Texas wrote on Wed, 18 June 2008 10:10 |
Slash – Like this so far. IMO a longer verb would have been more suited. Sounds like a big bathroom. Nice mids/strings going on in the bass, but it’s not enough to carry the thing without the drums. I like all of the other panning, but why so mono on the main acoustic? Your btb would have sounded great if it were edited. The only beat we get in here and it’s all f$#@ed up? Love the re-use of the BGV. |
slash5969 wrote on Wed, 18 June 2008 21:25 | ||
Thanks, Jason. I pretty much concur with these comments. I tried several reverbs, and the one I went with was very much a "lesser of all the evils" solution - I never found the right one. As far as the acoustic, I used all the tracks. I'm sure I had them panned hard right and hard left as well as right down the middle. If it strikes you as mono, then it would have to been a volume issue on the panned tracks. My monitoring situation isn't ideal, and lots of times I just monkey around with stuff until it doesn't sound real bad anymore and then I quit and call it good. Prolly what happened here, too. |
Greg Dixon wrote on Wed, 18 June 2008 20:10 | ||
Mmm interesting. The acoustic wasn't panned at all. I just used the m/s straight up the middle. I worked hard on the bass and drums in an attempt to make them almost one. I thought the beatbox was ok (obviously), but it was hard finding a place where they felt ok. Agree the piano is up a bit too much. I used the Voce Spin (Leslie) plug-in over the organ, as it just seemed to back a bit of movement. |