M Carter wrote on Mon, 16 July 2007 20:14 |
...but man, the home alone kid had me dying. |
Iain Graham wrote on Mon, 16 July 2007 22:58 |
I hope my shit arrives soon, |
M Carter wrote on Tue, 17 July 2007 15:26 |
So let's see a show of hands, how many have downloaded / started? |
Brian Lloyd wrote on Tue, 17 July 2007 22:04 |
it wouldnt be so bad if i could understand a word they were saying. Eq'ing the vox is totally out the window. i need to sleep on this for a few days to even get a path to start on. Also! are there no guitars? at all? |
Brian Lloyd wrote on Tue, 17 July 2007 22:04 |
Also! are there no guitars? at all? |
homerecordingodyssey wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 06:20 |
mmmmmmmmm it is interesting ??? |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 17 July 2007 13:06 |
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you guys kill me. my mix is done, it ROOOOOOCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKSSSSSSS i don't kiss and tell, so ya'll just have to wait. |
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I was almost going to mix it (my style) and turn it in....but it would be so raw, I dont think it would have worked at all. |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 10:38 |
I don't want to say too much about the original approach until after the submissions come out... |
J-Texas wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 11:34 | ||
Matt, you're about to blow your wad man! You can't wait to talk about it! J. can't wait to show off his rockin mix... me too! I'll show you mine if you show me yours! |
scottoliphant wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 10:22 | ||
|
M Carter wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 10:38 |
I couldn't imagine trying to polish something like this up with samples and editing and what have you. I guess it all kind of depends on your familiarity/comfort level with punk rockish type stuff. I don't want to say too much about the original approach until after the submissions come out, but I'd definitely say that there's a certain amount of humor to be recognized in the song, if that helps anyone. |
spoon wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 09:30 |
J I am curious. I know you don't kiss and tell, but could at least tell me if you used samples? You HAD to have, no? |
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M Carter wrote: I couldn't imagine trying to polish something like this up with samples and editing and what have you. I guess it all kind of depends on your familiarity/comfort level with punk rockish type stuff. |
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Now I just need to tune the vocals.... |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 11:34 |
I think it's "If I'm gonna wake up a ghost, then I'd rather be comatose". If I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure the song is about a drug addict. But.... with a sense... of humor. |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 16:58 |
...i grew up riding a skate board listening to minor threat, rights of spring, agent oragne, the descendents.....blah blah blah |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 18:52 |
They both knew damn well they couldn't play drums like a pro, and didn't want to pretend like they could. |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 18:52 |
If nothing else, it was a reaction to over produced, over edited, sample heavy music, |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 18:52 |
For those of you tuning the vox - i think it's in D Locrian. |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 18:52 |
For those of you tuning the vox - i think it's in D Locrian. |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 18:52 |
I don't think anyone preached, J., and I certainly never questioned your punk rock badge of honor. No need to jump down my ethernet hub. |
ATOR wrote on Thu, 19 July 2007 09:13 |
Does anyone have some bandnames for me that do this style good? I tried to make it sound good but from there on I have no clue where this should go productionwise. Normally the track tells me where it wants to go but this one is alien to me |
briefcasemanx wrote on Thu, 19 July 2007 12:22 |
in his newer projects does Ryan do cool vocal stuff like on the line "believe me I know exactly what it means to need"? If so I'm very interested in hearing it. |
Careful Collapse wrote on Thu, 19 July 2007 20:40 |
"You're gonna scratch that itch!" "Scratch it!" Makes me laugh every time I also kinda hope Vlad sneaks in a mix this time; imagine the possibilities! |
CHANCE wrote on Fri, 20 July 2007 07:48 |
Bummer,, I am buried in work. Maybe I can join in on IMP #14 |
j.hall wrote on Sun, 22 July 2007 16:53 |
the submission thread will go up inthe morning. it will be locked at midnight (my time) tomorrow night (monday) |
southboundloco wrote on Sun, 22 July 2007 22:44 |
hey what time is that in new zealand???? |
chrisj wrote on Sun, 22 July 2007 02:42 |
This is what punk was AGAINST. |
osumosan wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 11:32 | ||
Hmmm. Curious statement. Could you clarify? Just interested why you say this. I thought punk was against prog rock |
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This is what punk was AGAINST. |
pg666 wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 11:52 |
i don't really care what genre it is though. |
garret wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 10:57 |
...Bottom line is, this track rocks, and it was fun to work with. |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 22:28 |
My cat surprisingly digs it too. |
J-Texas wrote on Thu, 19 July 2007 13:34 | ||
If he doesn't, you can always listen to a Korn record. |
pg666 wrote on Tue, 24 July 2007 10:52 |
Andrew Brierley: hehe, the vocal effect is a riot! i would have done something to the DI signal to make it sound less... DI signal. drums could use some bottom (snare and bass drum). whoa, what just happened? oh, it's coming back... strange edit/fade-in. |
PG666 |
ATOR: i like the fuzz idea on the bass amp, but it's a little zingy. yikes! what's up with that snare? 808?? the distorted vocals are cool though. interesting effect in the bass break; it certainly fits this more 'industrial' interpretation. |
maxim wrote on Tue, 24 July 2007 10:57 |
brian wrote: "whoa, somethings not right here... " that's the point of this track innit? |
M Carter wrote on Tue, 24 July 2007 09:51 |
I couldn't even imagine where guitars would play into something like this. |
osumosan wrote on Tue, 24 July 2007 12:20 |
Totally on the fifths! I almost harmonized the bass for the rest of the song, but as you point out, it's great for the dynamics. Lovin' CJWall's mix. Is that a low tech or a high tech effect on the head and tail? Classic. It could use a couple drum edits (I should talk). The break's snare could be tweaked when the 16ths come in. And thanks for the comments PG666. I'm going to dig in myself after this couple a days (work, ya know). |
osumosan wrote on Tue, 24 July 2007 12:20 |
Totally on the fifths! I almost harmonized the bass for the rest of the song, but as you point out, it's great for the dynamics. Lovin' CJWall's mix. Is that a low tech or a high tech effect on the head and tail? Classic. It could use a couple drum edits (I should talk). The break's snare could be tweaked when the 16ths come in. And thanks for the comments PG666. I'm going to dig in myself after this couple a days (work, ya know). |
chrisj wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 01:42 |
CJ Wall- Whoa, this sounds different. Hardcore sounds, slamming. Are you a metal guy? Not a big timing-fixer, that's for sure- the tracks are extremely unquantized. It feels like power music, but without so much of the humor value- it sounds like these guys are very serious, but failing. Making them seem convincingly serious is pretty cool, actually, though it falls into that trap where I'm not finding them that likeable and not cool enough to really respect. Even the vocal stupidity at the end is turned ominous. You MUST be a metal guy |
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pg666- Weird, it's like the mix isn't really sure what's the important track, so everything sort of politely takes turns and nothing gets too out of hand. Which is kind of a 'yikes' with this band. Actually some things like the bass are stepping out with a bit of personality- but it's bugging me. This mix sounds like almost everything it was seen as a problem and hated. As a result it feels really inhibited and stifled. I guess if I'm reading that right, the lesson is to not mix stuff that you hate too much |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 00:26 |
Audiogeek is my number 2 fave on this mix. If the bass matched the vocals, it'd be damn near on the mark. |
chrisj wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 01:42 |
audio~geek- Now here's someone who's happy twisting knobs. This one feels like someone was having fun twisting them knobs, there's a bizarre organicness. Like ATOR, you're very aware of the mixer, but audio~geek seems a bit more to be jamming the sound WITH the band rather than in spite of the band. A lot of this is pretty cheesey stuff, but so's the song, it hangs together somehow. I know a band that is just the way this feels, and they're crazy, funny bastards this turned out to be one of the mixes where I liked the people making that horrible racket. |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 00:39 |
J_Texas - It's a funny thing, the 'mixing without any prior knowledge'. I do realize that in some people's worlds, that's how things are. But I'm also aware that most engineers that work like that are hired for THEIR sound. On the contrary, there are a whole lot of engineers that are with projects from start to finish. Most of our clients are like that. That's what makes IMP tough AND interesting, the lack of direction. It's also what drives the discussion. And live, shitcopter was pretty fucking off the wall. 8 speaker cabs and guitar/bass amps with a bunch of pedals and a sick blues guitarist playing drums like animal from the muppets. |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 11:09 |
I can't really remember what we used on this in the tracking. I know it was an old gretsch drumset with a 20" kick and a really deep snare drum. The amp was an ampeg B15 cranked pretty hard. If I recall, the rooms were U47's and the overheads were U67's. |
pg666 wrote on Tue, 24 July 2007 20:19 |
........................... Fantomas: not sure i dig the delay between the bass signals; there's nothing cementing it in the mix. drums sound pretty strange and paper-y; not sure i would have gone the mono route for this type of rock. vocals sound like a rough mix. kinda neat buildup with the flanger and then it gets thin again in the rockin' part. neat flange on the outro vocal... the rest of the vocals could use some pizzazz like that. |
chrisj wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 01:42 |
The IMP 13 Horrible Trainwreck Critique Thread Fantomas- Hard to know what to say (getting kind of tired...). Snare's weird. Things are going up and down in volume. I think what's happening is that this mix is sound oriented, and it's pulled some worthwhile sounds out of its pocket but having done so, they kinda sit there and the other parts aren't helping them. This mix feels confused, like it's trying to go somewhere but it's stuck in the quicksand of the original song, and there's too little that's inspired (in a NORMAL sense) to latch onto. Compare with Scott, or Jason Thompson- in this track, if you couldn't love the very obnoxiousness of it, you were pretty screwed |
pg666 wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 19:52 |
jhall: solid modern rock drum sound w/ tasteful reverb, nice! not really diggin' the stereo-to-mono bass stuff though (and the stereo parts are too 'woofy' for me). why no Mack vocals, even if only for the chorus parts? drum edits in the bridge sound awkward. |
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no verb used. just compressed the room mics a bunch and blended them in. |
Careful Collapse wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 21:02 |
Feel free to let me know how full of shit I am and how bad mine is, or if I missed your submission somehow |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 12:55 |
Osumosan - What did you use for bus compression? And how'd you treat the drums? They sounded squashed to hell, in a really awesome way. |
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ps. Careful Collapse.. some of your track labeling is unclear ie. "IMP13-IMP13", etc. my file was listed on the server as "song.mp3", unfortunately.. |
ryst wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 22:13 | ||
You along with everyone else so far has missed mine. It's there. I see it but no one has listened apparently. It's named - "IMP13_Ryst.mp3" |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 14:54 |
i've listened to clips of a lot of them. i'm impressed guys. IMP seems to be really helping you guys. |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 22:50 |
that's all true Tom, however, i like to practice grace as much as possible, because i need it as much as i can get it!!!!! |
Tom C wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 21:39 | ||||
ryst, only (!) the submissions in the submission thread are reviewed. If someone missed the deadline (that thread is locked after that) he's out of luck. No deadline, no review, no Grammy award. It's all in the rules. |
ryst wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 23:01 |
I beat the deadline by a coule of hours. I uploaded the track to this part of the site: http://www.prosoundweb.com/imp/ But I missed this part of the rules. "links must be entered into the "IMPx song submission thread". DAMNIT! I really liked my mix too. Oh well, I guess no one will get to hear it even though it's up there. Can I still submit my reviews or am I out completely? |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 23:05 |
One thing I'd like to learn more about is how you guys approach 2-mix compression. Fast release? Moderate Release? How many db's do you like to hit the compressor? etc etc. 2-mix technique is one of my weakest links. |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 11:04 |
J_texas - Why get bent out of shape over it? |
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How everyone change their mixes given the chance? |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 16:05 |
One thing I'd like to learn more about is how you guys approach 2-mix compression. Fast release? Moderate Release? How many db's do you like to hit the compressor? etc etc. 2-mix technique is one of my weakest links. |
iCombs wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 15:48 |
I'd say you have no idea...but you obviously do...perhaps at some point it might be worth it to open a discussion on the learning/teaching aspects of IMP...a combination of j. hall love-fest slash a.a.-styled confessions...or something to that effect. Lord knows I've learned how to really make a mix more aggressive...to the point where they're TOO aggressive...which is a whole NEW problem for me to fix...but in the end, if I can moderate my "CRUSH IT!!!!" tendencies, I've got a better understanding of what makes mixes aggressive and forward. |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 21:13 | ||
this IMP for you marked a big change. your mix doesn't have that over powering sub (30 - 50Hz) thing i've heard in the past. in fact, this mix is a bit thin. it needs to be a bit rounder, but it's good to see you gravitate away from the sub thing. the other thing i noticed is the control. you have much more control of the elements then i've previously heard. you're also working the mids more (maybe you didn't but it feels that way) the mids are a VERY difficult area to work, but they are SOOOOO crucial. that 200 - 800 range is monumental to a killer mix. most guys either dogmatically cut in that range, or just avoid it all together. at some point, if you want your mixes to really stand out, you'll have to start working in that area. to my ears, that range in a mix is where a large part of a mixers thumb-print comes out. listen to some rich costey (muse, mars volta, audio slave, fiona apple, mew) his 200 -350 range is always real thick. his bottom end is great, but his low mids are so focused it's sick. skidd mills is perhaps the best i've heard in that low mid range. (saliva, sister hazel) his mixes are so think the low mids they should be muddy, but they aren't. dave mcnair (posts here as mcsnare) is lethal in the 400 - 800 range. buttery smooth mids, sculpted like the master he his. check out the icarus line record he just mixed. |
Careful Collapse wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 16:02 |
10. That delay on the bass is a little weird to me, I never thought of this as an echoey song. Maybe a little too dark considering it's the only guitar in the song. The vox sound pretty good, in an uncompressed early Tool sort of way. Although they seem a bit all over the place db wise in the second half "I won't let you gooo" part. The bass guitar also seems to drop out a bit in the later parts of the song. |
pg666 wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 21:40 |
Brian L: hehehe, that vocal effect just doesn't work at all and you probably know it! strange pumping going on with the bass (and the DI tone isn't too hot). not much else to say other than that vocal effect is ridiculous (but it did made me smile). |
pg666 wrote on Thu, 26 July 2007 02:40 |
Ryst: interesting 'bass' sound (it sounds more like a guitar!), but lacks 'balls'. drum samples sounds like Ministry or something, but it kinda works. vocals aren't blending in with the instruments very well; strange effect on them. good edit on the break (sorta like mine!). whoa, trigger is acting wacky on the drum roll (i'll take sloppy playing over bad triggering anyday). |
J-Texas wrote on Thu, 26 July 2007 11:58 |
M Carter - Cool bass. Great vocals. The drums don't hold up to these two sounds. Kind of like Animal from the Muppets beating on cardboard boxes. Drum intro. When everything is clean it really bothers me man. I like the little pixie flying away at the bridge... that was cool. I personally added a drums in those missed hits at the end. Another thing about not getting the joke. Those mistakes really stand out. I know, I know. Let's not get started again. |
J-Texas wrote on Thu, 26 July 2007 11:58 |
...Baddo - I like this a lot. Don't like how the bass POPs out like that though. Good drums. Nice low end (a personal preference of mine... but something I struggle with). Light bass phasing in the bridge too? Did you look at my paper? Good mix... |
pg666 wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 19:52 |
J-Texas: bass sounds like its covered in mud in the intro/verses, but the distorted parts are pretty cool. snare sound is an improvement over the original but could be thicker. i like the vocals a lot. bass drum is a little conservative compared to everything else. nice roto-stereo bass at the end; how 70s! heh. this one is pretty strong overall, nice. |
chrisj wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 01:42 |
The IMP 13 Horrible Trainwreck Critique Thread Jason Thompson- yeah, MIDRANGE, exactly what I was talking about! It still feels a little like it's trying for 'fi' but this makes me want to bang my head and make The Horns a lot. It's got that explosive quality and the roar I need to hear from this track in order to dig it. My GOD this is a fucking mess. It's a train-wreck and I'm loving it. This man understands this sort of noise in fact, this is what I was wanting to do and didn't. YEAH. |
Careful Collapse wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 |
3. First thing I notice about this is the lack of lows in the kick drum, but it still seems to be making the drums pump? A bit too much I think. Relative to the other instruments, the bass seems a little heavy in the 500hz region to me. The distorted vocals sound pretty good, they don't really lose too much their intelligibility despite how distorted they really are, although they may be bright. |
Tom C wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 15:53 |
IMP_13_Jason Thompson.mp3: Bass a bit dull and the hats a bit to bright and loud. The individual instruments sound a be detached from each other. You have to glue them together better. |
J-Texas wrote on Fri, 27 July 2007 16:52 |
Audio-Geek - I just got this file "snail mail" for Paraguay. That kick is pumping man. It's hurting my ears dude. I like the snare. Vocals kick! Adjust the compressor dude. Otherwise, it sound very cool. Really though, I have to stop it now... it really hurts. |
chrisj wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 16:42 |
Greg Dixon- Dry as a Saltine cracker. Boy, I can sure hear everything, but why doesn't it feel more roaring and distorted? This is totally a punk band when they went into a studio and it had THREE ADATS DUDE. Everything crisply delineated. I like all the sounds, they just refuse to form a stew for me. In fact it's very cool how reasonable troublesome instruments like the drums sound here, there's just that dryness. I'm going to guess Greg doesn't add a lot of fake digital distortion to things and is mixing ITB? This is one case in which that's a hard path to take. Oh, and correct me if I guessed totally wrong so I can straighten myself out |
Careful Collapse wrote on Thu, 26 July 2007 06:02 |
9. IMP13 Greg Dixon Sounds like you sucked all the bass out of the bass guitar, although the stereoization of it sounds nice. Still seems low on power because of the lack of bass, though. Is that a snare sample? if it is. Vox may be a bit too loud in the mix, but they sound good. |
Tom C wrote on Thu, 26 July 2007 06:53 |
IMP13_Greg_Dixon.mp3: Very clean sound. I like this one a lot, not much to complain. Maybe the kick could have some more mids. |
J-Texas wrote on Sat, 28 July 2007 07:52 |
Greg Dixon - Nice separation. That's probably the best that anyone could ask for with that snare. Lead vox up too much and background way too far back for me. I think it could use a 2 bus beating and it would be way cool. Nice use of delay in the bridge. |
J-Texas wrote on Fri, 27 July 2007 17:58 |
I'm glad you like a good headache too! I wanted this thing to hurt you. That's where the midrange was coming from. I wanted it to sound as nasty as I thought these guys were going with it. Thank you very much. |
chrisj wrote on Sun, 29 July 2007 22:54 |
You're welcome, I loved what you did. I'm just sad you seem to have missed my entry in your crits, seeing as you were trying to do the same thing I did but better Maybe it was SO AWFUL that you politely didn't say anything? |
chrisj wrote on Mon, 30 July 2007 17:03 |
's cool. So it bugs you on the vocals more than on the bass or kik/snare? Those are all the same potentially dangerous thing being used I would never have gone so far with it on a normal vocal, but I was trying to get an effect on all that screaming that kept the attitude but helped intelligibility some. |
J-Texas wrote on Mon, 30 July 2007 18:59 |
To get back to the whole "dinner" analogy, the first snare hit was like someone flicking a pea and hitting you in the eye. |
Juergen wrote on Tue, 31 July 2007 13:46 |
Btw, you didn't review mine! Not that I necessarily need it, but since you offered... juergen |
J-Texas wrote on Tue, 31 July 2007 17:30 |
THIS SUXXXXXXXX! I like to pride myself in my attention to detail! I love this one. A little more eq to tie the kick drum and bass together. I like the sounds though. Thank you for editing the drum intro The delay is killer on the backup. It makes it a lot more interesting. (it doesn't work for me in the bridge though. You didn't use it much on the second half of the bridge. That, to me, would have worked better all the way through the bridge because it's different than the verses... you know?) I did my OH's hot too, but the thing that I paid attention to was not letting the vox get run over by the cymbals. a couple of db down on the OH's and a little lift on the vox (maybe 10k and up)? Very cool overall man. |
Juergen wrote on Tue, 31 July 2007 18:41 |
... I didn't edit the intro. Unless you meant that sarcastically! Which is cool too. |
J-Texas wrote on Tue, 31 July 2007 20:16 | ||
Being facetious. That was my biggest hangup with the whole song man... that rushed kick thing before the "kick-in". Quarter. Quarter. Quarter. Quarter. Quarter. Quarter. Bing. Bang. Oops. Snare.... JAM!!! It begged to be fixed. Was that a snare sample? I like the punch, I like to the snap. No crack. Fill in the middle. |
ATOR wrote on Tue, 31 July 2007 09:01 |
Jason Thompson Very big and dirty sound, yeah I like it. Good call to mute the fuzzed bassamp in the verse call and response riff, maybe you could do this too in the chorus or at least turn it down a bit in the 'call' part. A little less delay on the vox in the 2nd part would make it more direct. |
fantomas wrote on Tue, 31 July 2007 20:37 |
Jason Thompson: i like the delays but the could be a little bit darker and use less feedback. i like the bass distorion a lot. kick could be more ballsy. nice vocal saturation. |
fantomas wrote on Wed, 01 August 2007 02:37 |
Ryst: i dont like the bass distortion, your are trying to make it a guitar. the drums are great, i like the vocals, they could be a little bit softer. watch out those badly triggered snare samples they distract from an otherwise really good mix. i dont like those laughs at the end, maybe way softer. |
J-Texas wrote on Fri, 27 July 2007 22:52 |
ryst - Nice bass. I'll you guys that kept the cool string stuff in the bass guitar. It really does have some character. Snare is way too loud. I don't hear the OH at all. There's already nothing to the instrumentation. Even if it's someone giving the cymbals a beating, it's something. I like the vocals. Should probably adjust the sensitivity on the snare a bit. if you can't get it right... put it on another track with a different setting for that part. Jason |
fantomas wrote on Tue, 31 July 2007 21:37 |
Brian L: vocals to wet.nice bass sound. drums are pumping in a unpleasing way. nice balanced mix but that reverb is too much. . |
ryst wrote on Thu, 02 August 2007 08:52 |
Snare too loud? I didn't think the snare was too loud at all. |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 17:05 |
One thing I'd like to learn more about is how you guys approach 2-mix compression. Fast release? Moderate Release? How many db's do you like to hit the compressor? etc etc. 2-mix technique is one of my weakest links. |
chrisj wrote on Tue, 31 July 2007 21:10 |
I'd love to hear more about how people got good drum sounds. |
garret |
ator: the triggered techno snare is really out of place... honestly, it's just awful. Smile it’s a shame too, because this is a great mix in every other way. |
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and the ?drum intro? needs to be fixed? |
pg666 wrote on Sun, 05 August 2007 11:36 | ||
someone else mentioned this too, is it referring to those loud hi-hat rolls before it kicks in? otherwise, i honestly don't hear what needs editing*. if the timing was imperfect, it wasn't bad enough for me to notice.. *i did mute the snare track to reduce hat bleed and replaced the first snare hit with something cleaner. |
garret wrote on Sun, 05 August 2007 00:34 |
chrisj: puny basses and overly hardcore vox? |
M Carter wrote on Sun, 05 August 2007 10:26 |
I think if you had mixed it and played for a cross section of people, very few of them would've brought up the playing. |
M Carter wrote on Sun, 05 August 2007 21:00 |
And of course... musicians know "good" music better than anyone... right? That explains why Steve Vai records sell so well these days. I suppose it depends on who your audience is. I hardly think the audience for this band comprises classical composers, session players, or jazz heads. Dirty Williamsburg/Bushwick hipster kids? More likely. |
M Carter wrote on Sun, 05 August 2007 10:26 |
... I don't think that any of the editing that was done made anybody's mix any better than it would've been... |
Greg Dixon wrote on Sun, 05 August 2007 23:38 |
Anyway, I'm wondering if this might explain why most people didn't have a problem with the lack of editing? |
M Carter |
I think the whole six song EP clocked in at 8 hours of total work (2 hours tracking the band , 2 hours maybe on vocals, and 4 hours of mixing the day before releasing). |
M Carter |
it's funny for me to have a week to mix something we originally mixed in 15 minutes. it's actually really hard not to over think it. |
M Carter |
we literally did the whole thing right before it was released at the bands first show. |
M Carter |
I couldn't imagine trying to polish something like this up with samples and editing and what have you. |
M Carter |
When we originally did this stuff, the band set a very strict 'no edits, no samples' rule. They both knew damn well they couldn't play drums like a pro, and didn't want to pretend like they could. ... it was a reaction to over produced, over edited, sample heavy music... |
M Carter |
...I'm sure it's tough without any details of the band, its members, the initial intent of the project to understand where I'm coming from. |
M Carter |
I can see how my statements could've been taken as soap boxy too. I wasn't referring to slight edits, and I can see when it'd be called for in this tune. |
J-Texas wrote on Mon, 06 August 2007 15:09 |
Before engineers couldn't replace sounds and edit as freely because the technology wasn't there! Likewise any jackass wasn't able to make a quality recording. Welcome to the digital age fellas! |
J-Texas wrote on Mon, 06 August 2007 00:09 |
Before engineers couldn't replace sounds and edit as freely because the technology wasn't there! |
Greg Dixon wrote on Mon, 06 August 2007 03:19 |
With digital recording technology being accessible to the masses, it's never been easier to make a good quality recording. However I feel it keeps getting harder to make a great one. |
Greg Dixon wrote on Mon, 06 August 2007 03:19 |
I'm quite happily working in the digital age. I just don't believe digital is making better recordings. As always, it's how you use it. |
scottoliphant wrote on Mon, 06 August 2007 08:26 |
at what point do we stop striving to help the artist realize their vision. |
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That's why I edited the intro. Now, I have a problem with anyone who didn't do it, because I thought it was lazy. |
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Wherever I said "fix the drum intro" I meant the sloppy missed cut at 0:23 or so. The drummist missed the cue, and keeps playing his kick and stuff through the cut... I think J's editing there is very good.... check his mix for an example of how he cleaned it up |
pg666 wrote on Mon, 06 August 2007 10:21 |
substituting a quality tube overdrive bass sound for a Guitar Center-esque DI/stomp-box tone is kind of missing the big picture (especially since it's the dominant melodic instrument). |
J-Texas wrote on Mon, 06 August 2007 19:46 |
Yes dude! You get it. All I did was move the last kick and snare hits in time (in the intro). It set the whole tone for the tune man! |
pg666 wrote on Mon, 06 August 2007 10:43 |
ok, i finally hear what a few of you are talking about. |
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a wimpy crash pause before it explodes. edits like this, to me, sounded weaker than the slightly flubbed/rushed original. |
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i believe brian was referring to J. as in J. Hall, which is the same J. that garret referenced him to. |
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Am I the new Vlad man? If this is a place where we can have a difference of opinion and express that and argue about it, then I'm in the right place. |
J-Texas wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 12:13 |
Am I the new Vlad man? If this is a place where we can have a difference of opinion and express that and argue about it, then I'm in the right place. |
Greg Dixon wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 00:26 | ||
Nah, you're not Vlad. Even if we don't all agree with you, we can understand what you're saying and why you're saying it. Differences of opinion are part of what makes IMP interesting. You are sounding like a broken record on the topic of editing though and seem to be unwilling to except any opinion that is different to yours. |
scottoliphant wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 10:17 |
I'm confused, do you want someone to try and convince you to not edit? maybe i should just stay outta this. it seems everyone on both sides have made their points and i didn't get the impression anyone was trying to convert the other. some people choose to, some people don't. some people like it, some don't. what else is there to talk about, it's like the analog / digital debate. we could go round and round for days, and we have. |
iCombs wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 10:29 |
J-Tex...I don't mean to be the nelly naysayer...but it doesn't look like that edit is as important to the song as you're making it out to be. |
J-Texas wrote on Mon, 06 August 2007 21:10 | ||||
Simmer Down? I think you need to read this again. He said I see what a few of you are talking about. As far as your edit man, this was said:
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therefore, brian hating an edit i made, and not "feeling" my stereo to mono bass movement is chalked up to opinion. |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 10:45 |
i think they are trying to get you into a discussion to better understand your opinion. |
pg666 wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 11:08 |
fixing these minute mechanical details is ok until it becomes an obsession onto itself.. then the more important elements of the music become secondary. |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 14:17 |
scottoliphant really upper mid heavy. There is some good aggression here. Your mixing skills are improving. The slap delay on the vocal is nice. Not too much, but enough to make a point. IIRC your mixes are typically thin. Is this a monitoring issue, or do you not like low end? |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 15:17 |
garret a rock band in physical space. The verb is nice. Feels like an empty club. Only problem is that the vocal isn?t in the same space. You made this sound like a 4-track with vocal over dubs. I have a feeling that was intentional. And I?m not saying it?s a bad thing, just an observation. |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 21:17 |
Tom C sounds like you are using a really small room verb on the bass. I like that. Gives it some depth, but not too much. Drums are really bright. i would expect more pounding drums out of you. I?m not looking at the submission thread, but I think you did this really fast. Vocal feels a bit too filtered, but the placement in the mix is great. |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 14:17 |
J-Texas that hi hat is BANGIN? in the intro. Man that?s some serious balls on the bass. Not sure the drums are in the same place. One thing I try to do with a mix is keep core elements in the same physical space. If you blow out the bass, you probably want the drums to be some where in that picture. The back and forth bass tone is good development. |
J-Texas wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 16:30 |
Thank you very much for the kind remarks. Especially after I got my panties in a wad. I've already written: "I ain't be doin' that shit up in here any mo'" on the chalkboard about a hundred times. |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 14:17 |
IMP 13 reviews: overall, I?m noticing a lot of people gun shy in the low end area. Thoughts on this? The tracks? The style of music? |
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careful collapse where?s the beef? The kick goes down to maybe 100, nothing below that. Also feels really mono. These intentional decisions? |
pg666 wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 17:57 |
also, make sure the rumble isn't coming from the 200-400 region. that crud will reduce attack and make it sound pillow-y. |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 14:17 |
...baddo NICE! Snare feels thin, but this is nit picking. Nice mix man. What is your room like? Curious cause the sonics feel really controlled. |
Baddo wrote on Wed, 08 August 2007 14:45 | ||
Hey, thanks for the compliments. That snare came back and haunted me haha. My room is far from being perfect, but I know it very well. PS: I'll do my reviews very very soon, I promise. |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 08 August 2007 14:09 |
"knowing is half the battle" - G.I. Joe |
ATOR wrote on Fri, 10 August 2007 06:05 |
The more you mix this track as a clean rock track the more I feel you should edit timing mistakes. If you mix to express the chaos and mess of the track I couldn't care less about fucked up timing. If you would go all Trevor Horn on this track I'd expect the timing of these tracks to be heavily edited. For me the style of the mix also dictates the amount of editing. |
M Carter wrote on Fri, 10 August 2007 14:04 |
ATOR - The kit was an old gretsch kit, and the snare was a reallllly deep snare drum. It was pretty dead sounding. I also blame a lot of it on mic placement, since at the time I didn't really pay attention to what I was doing. The sessions was literally an in/out kind of situation, so the general feeling was 'is it recording? yeah? ok, lets do this'. Extremely fun way to make a record, but doesn't yield the greatest sounds when you're fairly new to this kind of thing. You really should (if you haven't) check out some of the V.O.D. stuff Dave Sardy did, it seemed like that was where you were trying to take the drums when I heard yours. Matt |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 14:17 |
cjwallgor man I love this! I usually try to visualize mixes that I?m ?reviewing?. See what it makes me think of. As in a place, time, situation. This mix makes me feel like I?m in a horror movie hearing the band through a wall. But not in a bad EQ way. It?s haunting sounding, but really pissed off. This might be my favorite mix. The drums are all blown out sounding, and the bass is all low mid and a touch hollow. I really like this vibe for the song! |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 15:17 |
ChrisJ another really mid-rangey mix. You like you some mids?. If you opened up the frequencies this would have been a killer mix. I still feel like you are too focused on details and losing the big picture while you mix. On the next IMP, I want you to only use a ?normal? compressor and EQ. let?s break it back down to some basics and build from there. The vibe is cool. The songs feels like it?s about to catch on fire. We just need more then 300 ? 3k. |
chrisj wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 15:57 |
That's fine- it would be a natural problem for me to be having. What comes to mind is- what if I use just say the Logic channel EQ or whatever, and it still sounds the way it's been sounding? |
M Carter wrote on Mon, 13 August 2007 00:16 |
I'd be interested to know how many people did recalls for themselves, and what changes they made if so. |
chrisj wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 15:57 |
I'm interested in what the working mixologists do, as far as 'forcing stuff to go exactly the way you hear it, or being more gentle'. Seems I'm getting the hang of J's concept of using extremely forceful handling if you want it, and losing my fear of that, but then I turn around and it's getting a vibe but is too gratitious |
M Carter wrote on Mon, 13 August 2007 06:16 |
I'd be interested to know how many people did recalls for themselves, and what changes they made if so. |
ryst wrote on Tue, 14 August 2007 20:41 |
After multiple comments on my snare, I decided it was too loud. |
M Carter wrote on Tue, 14 August 2007 20:24 | ||
there are definitely multiple schools of thought, as this thread/exercise has proven from the start. Something that I heard once that rubbed off was "Over the years, I've realized that the more I mix, the less I do. It seems kind of disrespectful to the sounds when you start getting in there and changing all types of shit to make it what YOU want", but that IS a rather old school approach, and the opposing view has it's arguments as well. |
J-Texas wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 02:52 | ||
Are you SURE that everything else just wasn't too low? |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 04:17 |
anyway, try not to think of me as a "forceful" mixer. that makes me feel too much like a dictator. perhaps i am, i'm just not ready to deal with that......HA |