j.hall wrote on Thu, 22 April 2004 22:53 |
...what indie rock is not, is an independent band seeking a major label contract... influential bands "in the scene": ... Jawbox ... Shudder to Think ... Refused ... Sunny Day Real Estate ... Afghan Whigs ... Guided By Voices ... |
drew wrote on Fri, 23 April 2004 13:07 |
cool. I did one of the ones on the list. do I get a cookie. |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 22 April 2004 17:53 |
now we have a bunch of un-informed kids buying over priced "vintage" clothes, and white belts, with bad haircuts, running "our scene". |
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i think indie rock can be really heavy (refused) or really mellow (sparkelhorse, codeine) |
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but what indie rock is not, is an independent band seeking a major label contract. |
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many people in our industry use the term, "i work on indy records as well as major label", this is completely different from what most of here think of as indie rock. |
Gary Longest wrote on Fri, 23 April 2004 16:28 |
At what point does "indie rock" become "punk"? |
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I've talked with a few engineer's who were like this. The "underground" is MTV2 to them. They just don't get it. |
j.hall wrote on Fri, 23 April 2004 17:42 |
we once had minor threat, the sex pistols, etc..... now we have blink 182, and good charolette |
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i think real punk morphed into indie rock and what remained is now pop. i don't know man. |
Consul wrote on Thu, 22 April 2004 17:46 |
To me, indie music is a political definition rather than a genre definition. It means someone who plays music, any form of music, that are not tied and/or tied down to music publishing company. |
Fletcher wrote on Sun, 25 April 2004 11:15 |
Punk Rock ended in 1980... right around the time when it became "cool" to wear CBGB's T-shirts... all that remains is Punque Rock which is a commercial product sold in stores rather than a unique lifestyle lived in small circles. |
Fletcher wrote on Sun, 25 April 2004 11:15 |
Punk Rock ended in 1980... right around the time when it became "cool" to wear CBGB's T-shirts... all that remains is Punque Rock which is a commercial product sold in stores rather than a unique lifestyle lived in small circles. |
spankenstein wrote on Tue, 27 April 2004 23:37 |
They're clawing to "make it." |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 09:04 | ||
that's what i find funny......where are they trying to make it to? i ask bands that all the time, "where are you trying to get to?" i haven't had one answer. "i don't know, famous?" thats always the answer i get. how can you get anywhere if you don't know where "where" is? most bands haven't a clue what they are doing, or what direction they need to go in. marketing starts from day one. and the first thing is, know your market, and decide where you want to go with it. |
spankenstein wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 09:46 |
It's this point that it becomes a fine line I think. Making music or making business. |
spankenstein wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 00:37 |
I think the 70's stuff was the foundation but punk, at least to me, is defined by the bands j.hall mentioned. Black Flag, Bad Religion, Minor Threat. 80's were punk as in punk. Punk has definitely "broke" as far as that goes. |
Fibes wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 12:10 | ||
I'm not trying to bust your balls but the "california" punk you talk about was in many ways the first wave of commercial punk. (snip) |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 13:01 |
to clarify,the cali thing was straight up commercial from the get go, the intent might have been there, i don't know. |
jakabo wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 14:16 |
Just a quick chime in...I finally got around to reading it when my partner loaned it to me somewhat recently. But topically, this is a good read. "Our band Could be Your Life: Scenes from the American Indie Underground 1981-1991" by Micheal Azzard. http://www.twbookmark.com/books/35/0316063797/ ken |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 09:56 | ||
what i'm saying is that you have to have some idea of where you want that business to end up. denying the fact that art is business, IMO, is simply ignoring the entire scope of the process. this is true for all forms of art. at least, i whole heartedly believe this to be true, and i have yet to be convinced otherwise. |
spankenstein wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 15:26 |
I'm well aware of the business of it, I guess I worded it wrong... My intention was whether the reason was truly the music or the money. |
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In other words is it where you're going or the getting there that is more important. |
Fibes wrote on Thu, 29 April 2004 07:28 |
My mantra to bands is that if you decide to leave the garage you should do everything you can to get people to come hear your art. It's funny how that can be misconstrued to mean, sellout, dumb down or whatever. The fact is in my burg half the bands don't even flyer or contact the local weekly. One of my best friends has to freaking bug the bands for bios so he can cover a group that is worth seeing. The whole anti-hero thing died long ago in the cred circles. If you think people will like your music and take it out of the garage you owe it to yourself and the people like you to make them aware of it. Word of mouth is a powerful thing in this age, funny thing is it all starts with yours. |
lucey wrote on Sun, 23 May 2004 04:12 |
There is no new indy rock that's respectable, anything credible has been around a while. Now it's just more politics, posing and the economic stylization of creativity ... the very thing the indy and punk kids were not about. |
j.hall wrote on Mon, 24 May 2004 09:09 | ||
i agreed with you until the quoted paragraph simply not true...... put a time frame to "been around a while" 5 years? 1 year? you put a time frame to it, i'll name some creative, respectable indie rock bands that fit in your time frame. |
lucey wrote on Tue, 25 May 2004 09:03 |
So in the last 5 years, what do you like as honorable indy? |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 22 April 2004 11:37 |
we went through this every now and then in the recpit version of this forum. this is a new place, let's discuss it again. let's add a twist though. give me your definition of indie rock, and then list a handful of bands that you think defined it, or started it, or both. |
Gary Longest wrote on Fri, 23 April 2004 16:28 | ||||||||
Don't forget the Buckle Shoes! Losuy Pilgrims they are.
At what point does "indie rock" become "punk"?
Amen. You're either making records for love, or making them for money. You can't do both, unless you love money. then your fucked. If your making them for love, you can put them out yourself, or you can be a dildo and wait for a label. Put in some work! Jeez, there are so many lazy kids waiting for record contracts. You have either independent bands, or hopeful- yet- unsigned major label bands. Punk is not a purgatory between unsigned and signed. Anything else is like saying your fasting inbetween your breakfast, lunch, and dinner!
I've talked with a few engineer's who were like this. The "underground" is MTV2 to them. They just don't get it. |
ivan40 wrote on Wed, 26 May 2004 23:15 |
That's just my take on this whole "INDI/credibility/sell out/Punk/metal/death metal/emo/?>@#$% It's rock music period. And wether or not something has credibility will change from one person to another. Labeling music in this way has always puzzled me and I'm glad I listen to almost every style of music in the world or I would go to sleep. |
ivan40 wrote on Thu, 27 May 2004 11:45 |
If a kid is writing a tune with his band and the drummer says,"dude, this is to nu-metal!" he will be like " oh no, I don't want to sound like nu- metal!!" It would be better if he could forget about what people call the stuff and just write the damn tune.. |
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I have some hard stuff that I dig. I think older Sound Garden was fucking great. "Rusted Cage". I thought Black hole Sun was great too, {very Beatles sounding}. I had some very early But Hole Serfers stuff and thought it was cool. I thought Rage against the Machine was great shit. That stuff pined me to the wall. For me, I want the players to kick ass in a big way. After the writing, the most important thing to me is mad mad skill on the instruments. But it's all rock and roll. I put Sound garden and Rage in the same box. Rock and Roll |
ivan40 wrote on Thu, 27 May 2004 00:15 |
There are plenty of REALLY REALLY talented folks who make records because they love their music and at the same time want to make as much money as they can. |
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I just don't buy this whole concept about "selling out" In the 90's,I almost got out of this biz because of this attitude. If a record sold a bunch of copies, the folks who made the record were selling out. |
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This music turned into a HUGE commercial success and I don't think people come into this biz hoping they don't make any money. |