PRobb wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:06 |
Why? |
danickstr wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:18 |
The coasts will vote Democrat. That is where the ecjumacated people live. The part in the middle will tend to vote for the most "God-feerin" candidate. |
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:31 | ||
So either a person is saved, or educated, but not both? |
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:48 |
Do you think that evolution is just a theory? Do you think the world is 6,000 years old? |
C.O. Jones wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:52 | ||||
I think you can be both "saved" and "educated". Just as some may be simultaneously anti-"douchebaggery" and "intelectual". Jones |
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:48 |
Depends. Do you think that evolution is just a theory? Do you think the world is 6,000 years old? |
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:28 |
"War is bad, now give me a hand-out!!" Guys, I started this thread out of sheer curiosity to see who would reply negatively. I figured since nobody in the saloon talks about anything BUT politics, I'd get an idea where some folks REALLY stand. |
jimlongo wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:29 |
I'm still interested in hearing why? |
jimlongo wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:34 |
Sounds like you should just sit it out. |
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:33 |
I stand on my faith. Obama is pro-choice, not something I'm willing to vote for. |
mgod wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:47 |
Handouts are required for salvation. DS |
Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 00:40 |
.... Palin isn't a fresh anything. She's a dyed-in-the-wool Republican't. ...... |
groundhog wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 00:05 |
.... You may not think that character matters . But I believe that it does . |
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 00:28 |
"War is bad, now give me a hand-out!!" Guys, I started this thread out of sheer curiosity to see who would reply negatively. I figured since nobody in the saloon talks about anything BUT politics, I'd get an idea where some folks REALLY stand. |
Hallams wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 01:25 |
Poorly informed positions are most likely to be a response based on laziness or prejudice or both. |
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 02:37 |
I find it interesting that nobody has commented on McCain's extra-marital affair. Any takers? |
Edvaard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 01:28 |
That's what it's all about, making others suffer the responsibility for your own irresponsibility. |
Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 02:00 |
You guys do realize Grant is just baiting you, right? |
Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 17:00 |
You guys do realize Grant is just baiting you, right? You're wasting your time here. I said I was done and with this one I really am. |
Edvaard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 02:11 |
No, I don't know you, actually. But, if you know me at all, that won't stop me. Ha ha. Good to know you, in any case. I'll have you know, I have actually voted for a Republican, once or twice. I over stated the case, in some ways, but I can't back off of my anti-war stance. Good to meet you, in any case, Grant. |
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 00:08 | ||
Sweet. I'm not alone in the forum. |
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:56 | ||
You have a distorted view of salvation. Faith is required for salvation. Period. |
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:32 |
(FYI, not including myself, I've counted 11 democrats and 1 republican in this thread so far. |
C.O. Jones wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 20:55 | ||
Science explains how. Religion helps us understand why. Jones |
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 05:56 | ||
You have a distorted view of salvation. Faith is required for salvation. Period. |
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 09:15 | ||||
And true faith, to be a christian, is also a matter of deeds, not words. And unless one is a true christian, no salvation is offered. Time to get to work. DS |
excerp |
John McCain gave 19 percent of his adjusted gross income to charity, while Barack Obama gave 6 percent. The choice of charities by John McCain appear to be "color blind" while Barack Obama's gave 25 percent of his donation to the Congressional Black Caucus and one third of his charitable donations to that church in Chicago we all know so well. Who's the bad example? Look up the facts. |
C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:01 |
This is my problem with the State-run approach to charity: Bureaucrats that run programs always become entrenched, eventually caring more about self-preservation than anything else, and consume way too much of the assets. Jones |
Jay Kadis wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:15 | ||
http://www.charitywatch.org/ |
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 03:11 | ||
Call me a liar, but I'm not baiting anybody. I'm asking legitimate questions as I know little about the candidates except for the two issues I mentioned before. Come on guys...now's your chance to get another democratic vote. Make it happen! |
John Ivan wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 01:26 | ||
A couple things. I don't believe for a moment that you didn't already know where most of us stand on who we are voting for. Now, the other thing.. If you really believe that the Democratic platform is simply "War is bad, now give me a hand out", then you are a backwards, illiterate dumby.. Look, there is NOT ROOM for you in the national debate if you are going to be using this kind of one line republican rove shit. Really. The country is sick of it.. This shallow thinking is THE REASON our kids are coming home in bags, smart guy. You will not slogan your way into the White House this time. Sorry. "Tax and spend Liberal"- Republicans don't tax? You don't spend? Really? "You don't love our country"- What, republicans love our country more? Really? "The Republican party is the party of Family values"- I have a family. We already have a set of values, thank you very much. We do not get our value system from a political party. Maybe you do, but we don't . We are the "DEMOCRATIC PARTY". See? "You guys don't support our troops" Non sense. More than non sense. It's a lie you people repeat on purpose because you don't want to talk about the fact that Iraq was the biggest mistake we've made, maybe ever {we'll see}.. There are democrats serving and dieing right now! My dad was in the U'S. Air Force. Where I stand is very firm ground. From a policy stand point the republican party barely exists at all. Bush has vetoed thousands of pages of things he doesn't understand and the guy you are running now can't run a damn cash register. As for deciding when where and how to use force, this white house may have in fact broken the Law. War is bad. It's a pretty serious thing to most of us, but not all of us, obviously. EDIT: I thought I would ad that many who cry "Murder" about abortion have no problem sending 18 and 19 year old Americans to bleed to death in a country that had nothing to do with 911. This is just plain sick. You can MOVE INTO a church if you want to, and hold a Bible in your hands for the rest of your life but for those who believe in this whole heaven thing, I doubt you'll be able to get by the big guy with this one. Talk about yer' "Values".. It's some pretty sick shit man....... There. Ya know where I stand now? Why did you start this thread again? Ivan....................... |
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 02:11 |
I'm asking legitimate questions as I know little about the candidates except for the two issues I mentioned before. |
el duderino wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:53 |
plus, even if he stays alive....how will his mind be? wasnt reagan supposedly dealing with alzheimers in his second term? he had bush to run things, someone i dont agree with but at least he had plenty of experience. palin? that just frightens me. |
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:20 | ||
Yes, No |
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:37 |
I find it interesting that nobody has commented on McCain's extra-marital affair. |
Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:44 | ||||
Of course evolution is "just a theory." Gravity, too, is "just a theory." But obviously you have no idea what the word "theory" actually means in a scientific context. And that right there is an example of how our country's education system is FAILING its students. -a |
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:36 |
At what point do democrats become "the man"? |
Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 09:44 | ||||
Of course evolution is "just a theory." Gravity, too, is "just a theory." But obviously you have no idea what the word "theory" actually means in a scientific context. And that right there is an example of how our country's education system is FAILING its students. -a |
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:15 | ||
Ask him: DS |
Devin Knutson wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:54 |
Sorry. Gotta clarify this. The Theory of Gravitation is the most accepted theory which attempts to predict the behaviour of gravity. Gravity itself is not a theory, it is an observation. |
Jay Kadis wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:59 | ||
|
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:56 |
Nobody has a reply? Really? |
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:11 |
...But, if you were responding to me, as it seemed you were, I made no mention of government care in the context of faith.... |
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:56 |
Nobody has a reply? Really? |
C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:34 |
I'm kind of surprised no one has responded to my observation in the last paragraph of that post. Jones |
Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:03 | ||
I will comment on it (as a "McCain constituent" by virtue of geography, not because I ever voted for the guy): Why is it that extra-marital affairs tend to pretty much destroy the careers (and quickly, I might add) of Democrats -- Edwards is the latest, but of course Spitzer and McGreevey are good recent examples. But look at how many family values (their term!) Republicans have had affairs and somehow manage to stay in office: Vitters, Craig, Henry Hyde, McCain of course, Gingrich, Guiliani, it goes on. And it's not that I particularly care whether someone has had an extramarital affair (and I don't say that lightly, as my first marriage ended because my wife had an affair (and frankly, I'm better off now, but I digress)). What matters to me is that the Republicans all pretend to champion these so-called "Family Values," yet they turn out to be utter hypocrites. It is NOT the action ... it is the HYPOCRISY regarding the action. (Which is simply a paraphrase of "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up.") And, anyways: McCain is a full-on hypocrite. He pretends to be a "maverick" yet loves him some Bush policy. He was ACTUALLY tortured, and should therefore be out front ensuring that our country's policies explicitly forbid (and prosecute claims of!) torture, yet he signs on with Bush's torture regime. He says that he wants to fight the "Special Interests," yet the only special interests he's against are those that don't support the neocon agenda. And it goes on. He's a douchebag. Plain and simple. Voting for him means that you think that the country is Just Swell and nothing is wrong. -a |
Steve Hudson wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 13:25 | ||||
Well said, Andy. I was very amused (and not surprised) that during the presentation on how John & Cindy McCain met and fell in love, the Republicans conveniently left out the part that John was married to the wife of his three children at the time. The Republicans are expert at trying to rewrite history just by saying something that isn't true and hoping someone won't bother to check the facts, or leave out important details that would reveal the hypocrisy of their statements. I'm sick of those lyin' sacks of shit, which is why I left them behind fifteen years ago. |
amorris wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 15:28 |
Mc Cain has sure surprised me. pretty classy guy. congratulated Obamma within 10 minutes of start, not condesendingly either. seems to handle business pretty well, Not the most vibrant choice but Hey he's not a Socialist. And all the anti religion comes off as arrogant. Hey there is no old man in a throne in the sky but do you really know how all this began? I didnt think so. science is just this era's best guess. and guess what, that will change in 50 years. So what they beleive is wrong too. |
Berolzheimer wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 16:29 |
And personally I don't care at all about who has sex with who. We're much to hung up on sex in this country, it's just a physical act that people do for pleasure or to make babies, we really imbue it with way too much meaning & bullshit. Everyone does it, everyone wants it, we all like variety, get over it. The only relevance it has in this discussion is that it is evidence of hypocrisy & dishonesty. |
i dig music wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 14:37 | ||
agreed, but you might understand better, how the sex part comes into play, when you have to explain that hypocrisy to your daughters. It seems like the red states get to pick and choose how family values are viewed during an important election. |
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 18:18 |
That's never been an issue here. My daughter, now 14, sees the hypocrisy clearly without me doing anything. But maybe that's because she's been raised on The Simpsons and the Daily Show, a parent's best friends. The Daily Show was especially good last night on the subject of why the RNC chose Minneapolis/St. Paul. DS |
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 14:54 | ||
Nobody gives a shit about the question. Really. DS |
Devin Knutson wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:54 | ||||||
Sorry. Gotta clarify this. The Theory of Gravitation is the most accepted theory which attempts to predict the behaviour of gravity. Gravity itself is not a theory, it is an observation. Natural Selection is the most accepted theory which attempts to predict the behaviour of evolution. Evolution itself is not a theory, it is an observation. EDIT: Sorry PRobb, I see that you had already said this. It bears repeating, however. Saying that evolution and gravity are "just theories too" adds fuel to the Flat Earth society, the Wingnuts, the Young Earthers and the Kansas School Board. |
Steve Hudson wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 15:19 |
Yes, hypocrisy and dishonesty. That's the true Republican banner. I recall going to The Eagle, a gay restaurant/leather bar in DC, with a work colleague back in the early '80s and being shocked to see, seated at the table next to us, Terry Dolan, the chairman of the National Conservative Political Action Committee (NCPAC). Dolan, a skilled fundraiser for the Right, publicly railed against gays until he was outed and sadly died of AIDS. I could care less when a man parks his truck at night, but Dolan pissed off more than a few people in DC with his two-faced nature. |
Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:02 | ||
Well, here's a theory (testable, developed using observation and inference, you know, like in science): The louder someone is shouting against something (like homosexuality, drugs, whatever), the more likely that person is covering up his homosexuality, history of drug abuse, whatever. -a |
amorris wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:28 |
Mc Cain has sure surprised me. pretty classy guy. congratulated Obamma within 10 minutes of start, not condesendingly either. seems to handle business pretty well, Not the most vibrant choice but Hey he's not a Socialist. And all the anti religion comes off as arrogant. Hey there is no old man in a throne in the sky but do you really know how all this began? I didnt think so. science is just this era's best guess. and guess what, that will change in 50 years. So what they beleive is wrong too. |
Larrchild wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:10 |
Jack Albertson was "The Man" Freddy Prinze was "Chico" hope I've helped. |
Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:09 |
As for "handling business well," in what way? Has he ever run a business, or even worked for a living? -a |
Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:09 |
...As for "handling business well," in what way? Has he ever run a business, or even worked for a living?... -a |
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:55 | ||||
Oh, ok. I was under the understanding that liberals have been complaining about "the man" for 40 some-odd years. |
PRobb wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 21:17 | ||||||
Your just a bomb thrower with nothing to say, aren't you? |
Edvaard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 23:12 |
I wish that things would not keep coming to this, and I must allow some disappointment in regards to such statements. "everyone want's sex". Are you serious, as if that is the prime motivation for all things? Even for males, that falls short from stating the essentials of what moves society forward. Society and "civilization" have done both well and worse based on what people have considered beyond the 5-10 minutes after "sex". The ability of our scope to move beyond that is the measure of things, rather than being based upon it. |
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 17:04 | ||
Ohhhhh, I see now. Kind of in the same way that the most flamboyant homosexual people are really covering up their heterosexuality right? |
C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:29 | ||
Cripes P..., Your going personal. Your intellect is usually more exquisite than what Your showing here. Jones |
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 23:47 |
... But up til now its just innuendo and prejudice and a bit of idiocy thrown in to keep it entertaining. The real conversation is among the rest of us. DS |
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 21:04 |
Ohhhhh, I see now. Kind of in the same way that the most flamboyant homosexual people are really covering up their heterosexuality right? |
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 23:47 | ||||
Doesn't mean he's not right so far. We can hope. But up til now its just innuendo and prejudice and a bit of idiocy thrown in to keep it entertaining. The real conversation is among the rest of us. DS |
C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 22:06 |
I'm curious to know what so fuels your ire. Fair question? Jones |
YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 01:00 |
BTW, you haven't answered my question yet: what are the reasons for voting McCain? |
mgod wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 10:36 | ||
|
mgod wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 10:36 | ||||
|
PRobb wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:17 | ||
Your just a bomb thrower with nothing to say, aren't you? |
Edvaard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 21:12 |
I wish that things would not keep coming to this, and I must allow some disappointment in regards to such statements. "everyone want's sex". Are you serious, as if that is the prime motivation for all things? Even for males, that falls short from stating the essentials of what moves society forward. Society and "civilization" have done both well and worse based on what people have considered beyond the 5-10 minutes after "sex". The ability of our scope to move beyond that is the measure of things, rather than being based upon it. |
MDM, wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 07:04 |
Speaking of presidential candidates, how is McCain model SIGNIFICANTLY different from Obama model, anyway? aren't they owned and produced by the same company? I mean what's the use of arguing? you vote for the one who you like more emotionally, but in the end the results are going to be the same, just you watch.. Wasn't it Bush Jr. who got elected saying he was AGAINST nationbuilding?? ha! |
grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 12:52 | ||||
Read the entire thread. |
YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 20:08 | ||||||
Oh I did, Grant. That's why I am asking you for the THIRD time to give me reasons for voting McCain. The two previous times you dodged, or better, ran away from the question. I am asking for a straight list of reasons because if I am to guide myself only by your replies (and the replies of other McCain supporters here)and infer from that, then not only I see no reason at all to vote for him, I see plenty of reasons to vote in whatever other candidates might exist. |
MDM, wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 16:42 |
two-party politics |
grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 23:37 |
You obviously did not see my post about my reasons against both Obama and McCain, and that I had actually not made up my mind yet. OR The post about why I started this thread to begin with. Please read again. |
Quote: |
I stand on my faith. Obama is pro-choice, not something I'm willing to vote for. McCain is a mistress groping SOB, not something I'm willing to vote for either. I have yet to make up my mind on which man I'd rather have leading the ***currently*** most powerful nation in the world. I think the best way for me to decide to to look past the negatives on both sides and determine which positives I'd most agree with. To be continued. |
Quote: |
EDIT: I see you've removed your location from your profile. I have to ask...why do you care? |
YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 21:59 | ||||||
you mean this:
Well, you started the thread by saying you're voting McCain; a bit later you posted the above-quoted text. So list the positives of McCain you've found so far, please.
No, I did not remove my location from my profile: It was never there to begin with. Does it matter? |
grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:12 | ||
Nope, keep digging. And I could've sworn you lived in Brazil. We've been through this before... |
YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 22:38 | ||||
I do. It's no secret, I've mentioned it several times in a variety of threads here. Just look at all the oil-related threads. It just has never been in my profile, I don't think it matters, do you? What I don't get is your "we've been through this before". And BTW, you still haven't answered anything. |
grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 20:49 | ||||||
Well, I have little regard for what foreigners have to say about our presidential election. Call me a jerk, but it cost wars to make sure we didn't have to listen to anybody tell us how to run our country. I know that may mean little to some anti-war folks here, but without them, you'd be speaking German. We went through this same thing in an oil-related thread as you speak of. And I don't plan to, as I still don't know who I'm voting for. |
grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:49 |
Well, I have little regard for what foreigners have to say about our presidential election. |
Quote: |
Call me a jerk |
Quote: |
I still don't know who I'm voting for. |
YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 23:26 |
Following your reasoning, you should not comment on subjects beyond your borders too. |
Quote: |
You started the thread saying you had already chosen a candidate and that others would have to "deal with it". |
maxim wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 23:52 |
"Call me a jerk, but it cost wars to make sure we didn't have to listen to anybody tell us how to run our country." you're a jerk... |
maxim wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 23:58 |
"You wish you could vote too eh?" sure when your president declares war on iraq, my son is put at risk... |
Berolzheimer wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 21:19 |
We are, as you mentioned, *currently* the most powerful nation on earth. |
maxim wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 23:52 |
"I know that may mean little to some anti-war folks here, but without them, you'd be speaking German." without the anti-war folks??? |
grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 22:05 |
No, without wars. We might all be blonde-haired blue-eyed. |
maxim wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:15 |
grant may be getting invasion and resistance mixed up... |
mgod wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:08 | ||
That's lame in the extreme. And not very bright. DS |
maxim wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:15 |
grant may be getting invasion and resistance mixed up... |
i dig music wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:45 |
Or, are you completely like them...bait and switch, shift and dodge, lie, cheat and deflect blame and responsibility until it suits your needs? |
i dig music wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:45 |
especially now that he has boxed himself into a corner |
grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 01:47 |
Stop it, you're making this too much fun for me. I have to stop right here...for fear of laughing my lungs out. |
YZ wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 02:21 |
The "I'm just joking" line is just an excuse for the lack of arguments. |
YZ wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 02:21 |
And I'm not laughing at you, because your behavior in this thread is a sad thing to watch. |
grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 04:28 | ||
Behavior? I thought this was the saloon man. Gloves off right?!?! |
YZ wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 02:43 |
I still suggest you do the "list" for your own personal use. |
grant richard wrote |
...but without them, you'd be speaking German. |
ssltech wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 08:52 | ||
...And if it wasn't for the French, YOU would still be speaking English. Keith |
grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 22:44 |
History is lame? Didn't realize it'd been quite so long. |
mgod wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 09:33 |
But before you do, listen to his tunes for some perspective. |
rankus wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 12:22 |
Troll thread |
mgod wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 09:33 |
Behaving exactly like a product of Republican era lack-of-education. |
seedyunderbelly.com wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 14:21 |
Grant, with all Due respect, Are you playing around or are you serious? -j |
seedyunderbelly.com wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 14:21 |
Grant, with all Due respect, Are you playing around or are you serious? YZ, I am here in USA I think I speak for many of us when I welcome the international conversation. -j |
seedyunderbelly.com wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 16:21 |
YZ, I am here in USA I think I speak for many of us when I welcome the international conversation. -j |
mgod wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 10:33 |
Like I said - not very bright. Behaving exactly like a product of Republican era lack-of-education. DS |
Edvaard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 14:29 |
Over aggressiveness is what's being promoted in our schools, but that's OK, because we now can just put kids on drugs if it get's out of hand. They are now expulsing kids from schools if the parents refuse to put them on drugs, but hey, how about the game coming up? We gonna kick their ass! Such a perfectly Orwellian contradiction, and so well suited to the task of aggressively mindless and Chauvinistic conformity. |
MDM, wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 10:04 |
Speaking of presidential candidates, how is McCain model SIGNIFICANTLY different from Obama model, anyway? aren't they owned and produced by the same company? I mean what's the use of arguing? you vote for the one who you like more emotionally, but in the end the results are going to be the same, just you watch.. Wasn't it Bush Jr. who got elected saying he was AGAINST nationbuilding?? ha! |
garret wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 21:19 |
Grant.. I'm not going to wade into this. But I will say this.. I believe you're a young guy. Can't remember how young, but I remember being impressed by the quality of your songwriting at such a young age. I'll wager this. At your age, you may not know your own political beliefs... You may be saying "I'm voting McCain" the same way some some might say "I drink Coke!" or "I drive a Ford." I.e. you chosen to associate yourself with a brand (The Republican Party) that you find appealing. I'm curious. Fill our the Political Compass survey, and post your results. I'd bet you are less conservative than you think you are. Most Americans are. http://www.politicalcompass.org/test When you're done, compare you numbers to these references: http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2 http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008 |
grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 01:57 | ||
OK, physically laughing now. What corner? I'm simply trying to piss you guys off. It's fun! Barry was the only one who picked up on it, and when I told you guys I wasn't, you bought it. Just like true liberals. I guess my lie makes me a republican then. Bring on the slaughter. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." -Democrat |
Larrchild wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 23:46 |
The only nugget of wisdom I can add after 50 trips around the sun, is that if a voice coming from your dashboard tells you to vote for someone, it's probably the wrong person. |
John Ivan wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 22:34 | ||||
The problem you have though, is that starting a thread like this just to screw with people is a huge waste of time, energy, and so on.. Plus, it's a dead give away that you are lost. It really is. You are pulling a Rush... He would do this kind of thing.. Why? I think it's because when it comes right down to it, you don't have anything else to say. Instead of starting a thread that could produce real opinions on the issues, you start a "gotcha" thread.. You STILL want to know what's going on for real, because you don't know.. But you need this shitty thread to get the info because admitting you're somewhat lost and need to hear all this stuff, is out of the question.. This is a very common trait among people who call themselves conservatives these days. There are certain subjects that are off limits.. Period. The idea that you are searching should not scare you. You should not be ashamed at ALL of not knowing for sure where you stand. This is normal, especially for relatively young people who already hold some strong beliefs on certain subjects. About this War thing. If you ask, I think you will find that most Democrats are not "Anti War".. We're just anti stupid. These are different things. I happen to believe that if enough people want steady peace in this world, we can at least make War exceedingly rare. Certainly, the war we are now engaged in was completely unnecessary and will be proven through history to be a huge mistake for which we will pay AS A WORLD for many years to come.. It's about having people in charge who are worthy of such heady decision making. It could be, sadly, that there will be times we need to, or BELIEVE we need to go kill people to keep from being killed ourselves. It's for this reason and many others that whoever sits in the White House should be an exceptional person. Not only do they need to be smart. but they need wisdom. Wisdom is not always the reliable child of experience. It is hard to say where truly worldly wisdom comes from but I do think it's interesting that the word "Temperament" was in Barack Obamas' speech. I think we can hear, see and feel real wisdom when it shows up. And I think it just showed up, and it came from Chicago this time... McCains' story is interesting and compelling but frankly, it's not a story that instills a sense of confidence. Balls? Yes. Great tenacity and human Spirit? Yes. A general sense of fairness? Perhaps, although this seems to have left the room in Johns' case.. Lately. The things I see in John McCain are: A. Talking about only a few issues that are the least of our worries, yet being held high as if they matter, to distract us from the gigantic list of problems that DO matter. B. Picking a Female running mate in what can only be described as an act of total desperation toward getting the Ultra Right vote. They may have even been dumb enough to believe she could bring Women, just because they are Women.. What dose THIS say about Johns' view of Women? C. Continuing to express the supposed wisdom of invading Iraq, and refusing to talk about what this really means to the country and the world. So Far, he's holding hands with GWB on this. YIKES!! You can vote for him if you want to, but my personal opinion is that this will be proof that you are terribly uninformed, or just mean. The things I see in Barack Obama are: A. A willingness to take in information that he believes he disagrees with, in an effort to understand the truth. Knowing the whole time that even if he doesn't change his mind, he will be smarter because he will be closer to understanding what drives the opposing view point. {very rare these days!} B. A belief that most people want the same things and are willing to drop their ideology to the side if someone shows leadership in this direction. {Stand on principle but pick your battles carefully for the betterment of all.} C.An ability to take in huge amounts of information and understand the underlying reasons for it's existence in the first place. {some people still care about history and the rule of law. In other words, how we got here and where are we going as a result. In aviation, this is called energy management.} D. A youthful optimism and a belief that the well being of others in the world matters just as much as the well being of Americans. {We are all on the same rock and we, as Americans, can't be of any use to anyone in our current state.} E. He can not wait to talk about every issue facing the country, in real detail. He just can't wait. I think I'm gonna vote for this guy. Ivan................. |
grizzly joe wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 23:14 |
Hell of a cat fight you got going here, Grant. Why don't we all come together and realize that, regardless of who is elected, this nation and world as a whole is ending right now, so there is no worry. -Joe |
bigaudioblowhard wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 01:20 |
yo Grant, you wanna vote for a Party that dragged us into a trillion dollar war under false pretenses? health care any more "affordable" over the last 8 years? if for no other reasons these guys gots to go vote your wallet bab |
grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 11:08 | ||
I hope you enjoy them! |
M Carter wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 18:23 |
I've also taken abortion off the list. I lean pro-life, but I can't say I have the authority to push my beliefs on other people. I also don't want my tax dollars paying for someone else's abortion. Social conservatives really owe it to themselves to look at things with results in mind. When you criminalize certain things (such as abortion, guns, drugs, or prostitution), you just open up a less safe and wholly damaging black market for it while forfeiting any type of regulation on it . Banning abortion could easily lead to more unsafe abortions nationwide and certainly more late term abortions due to a lack of regulation on it. I can't fathom making my voting decision on that basis, and the country is too large and diverse to make blanket decisions on divisive moral issues. |
grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 22:57 |
I'm simply trying to piss you guys off. It's fun! Barry was the only one who picked up on it, and when I told you guys I wasn't, you bought it. |
Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 02:10 |
Grant, I thought I'd check in to see how this train-wreck of a thread was doing. I think you've done a very sad thing. You have baited and ridiculed the fine people of this forum. These are people I've known for a number of years now through correspondence and phone calls. These are people who would drop everything if they thought they could help someone. Through your "joke", you've shown great immaturity. You have belittled people who have hung on in the thread in the hope they might make a real contact with you as a person. You have squandered good will, the chance of real friendship, solid business relationships, the opportunity to gain real insight and so much more. If banning you is being proposed, I will back it if I'm asked how I feel about it. And that is really sad. So much would have been given to you through the people you meet here and you threw it all away for a cheap joke. Barry |
maxim wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 05:20 |
lighten up, you guys |
Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 02:10 |
Grant, I thought I'd check in to see how this train-wreck of a thread was doing. I think you've done a very sad thing. You have baited and ridiculed the fine people of this forum. These are people I've known for a number of years now through correspondence and phone calls. These are people who would drop everything if they thought they could help someone. Through your "joke", you've shown great immaturity. You have belittled people who have hung on in the thread in the hope they might make a real contact with you as a person. You have squandered good will, the chance of real friendship, solid business relationships, the opportunity to gain real insight and so much more. If banning you is being proposed, I will back it if I'm asked how I feel about it. And that is really sad. So much would have been given to you through the people you meet here and you threw it all away for a cheap joke. Barry |
John Ivan wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 05:31 |
I think this means that something is wrong with you. |
John Ivan wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 05:31 |
The fact that you wasted the time of all these cats , ... Ivan........................ |
bblackwood wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 14:38 |
While we generally let things go well beyond what we will in the rest of the forums, the fact that this turned out to be simple trolling pisses me off. I expect more from posters here and am *this* close to banning the OP from the Saloon permanently. |
grizzly joe wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 21:05 |
How about we all pretend to be Grant's politics professor(S) And to everyone who is mad about anyone voting for McCain, look on the bright side (from your grass, that is): McCain is in his 70's, is fat, and has cancer. He can't last long either way.... |
Berolzheimer wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 23:09 | ||
And that's why we're incensed about Palin. |