rankus wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 15:08 |
I virtually never use 2 bus comp. (Adding another perspective) |
Fig wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 15:33 |
oom monitor volume knob and let the program be dynamic. J, 4:1 seems like a LOT to me on the 2-bus. If you're seeing 1-3 dB of reduction, that's 4 - 12 dB of dynamic range you are sucking up. 'Course, it all depends on the material I guess - in your case(s) it might be just the thing. |
Fig wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 21:33 |
J, 4:1 seems like a LOT to me on the 2-bus. If you're seeing 1-3 dB of reduction, that's 4 - 12 dB of dynamic range you are sucking up. |
Adam Miller wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 03:09 | ||
Eh? How does that work? |
J-Texas wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 06:12 | ||||
4 to 1 4 times 3dB of reduction = 12db of dynamics you're sucking up! |
beau wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 10:05 |
not really the case from what i understand. A compressor reduces the gain (level) of an audio signal if its amplitude exceeds a threshold. The amount of gain reduction is determined by a ratio. For example, with a ratio of 4:1, when the (time averaged) input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output signal level will be 1 dB over the threshold. The gain (level) has been reduced by 3 dB. When the input level is 8 dB above the threshold, the output level will be 2 dB; a 6 dB gain reduction. A more specific example for a 4:1 ratio: using a digital dbfs meter. Threshold = ?10 dB Input = ?6 dB (4 dB above the threshold) Output = ?9 dB (1 dB above the threshold) paece beau |
Podgorny wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 11:50 |
I GUARANTEE I'm not taking 48dB off of a guitar track when I'm compressing 12:1 on an 1176. |
beau wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 10:05 | ||||||
not really the case from what i understand. A compressor reduces the gain (level) of an audio signal if its amplitude exceeds a threshold. The amount of gain reduction is determined by a ratio. For example, with a ratio of 4:1, when the (time averaged) input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output signal level will be 1 dB over the threshold. The gain (level) has been reduced by 3 dB. When the input level is 8 dB above the threshold, the output level will be 2 dB; a 6 dB gain reduction. A more specific example for a 4:1 ratio: using a digital dbfs meter. Threshold = ?10 dB Input = ?6 dB (4 dB above the threshold) Output = ?9 dB (1 dB above the threshold) paece beau |
Adam Miller wrote on Sat, 17 May 2008 14:17 |
Not that I want to derail this topic, but if the gain reduction metering on Js mixbuss comp reads 1-3 dB, then he's reducing the dynamic range of his music by.... ...take a wild guess. The metering ballistics of the SSL comp are another matter, but let's assume it gives a pretty accurate representation of what's going on. |
beau wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 10:26 |
jay, do you find that the 4:1 sounds smoother than the 2:1 on your ssl comp? i am using the al smart c2 and prefer 2:1 for the same reason you prefer the 4:1 i love compression, and for some reason on the c2, the 2:1 sounds more aggressive than the 4:1 usually medium attack straight up at 1 i believe, with fastest release. 1-3 db of compression is all i can handle on the 2 bus, before mastering guys get mad at me. peace beau |
dguidry wrote on Fri, 23 May 2008 13:33 |
The best advise I ever got regarding the so called 2 bus compression. "Remember that the compressor is working even if the meter is not moving". |
grant richard wrote on Fri, 23 May 2008 20:29 | ||
care to explain? |
J-Texas wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 06:12 |
4 to 1 4 times 3dB of reduction = 12db of dynamics you're sucking up! |
Daniel Farris wrote on Thu, 29 May 2008 10:56 | ||
License to use a compressor: Revoked. DF |
J-Texas wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 12:42 |
... but I really need to use one today! |
J-Texas wrote on Tue, 22 July 2008 17:42 |
I'll say that the pumping in Free's "All Right Now" is an almost perfect fine line that you would want to hit on a hard rockin' tune! Man that thing slams. |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 19:06 |
i've always doen 4:1 ratio, the fastest release and the slowest attack release is 100ms attack is 30ms i'm typically compressing a mix between 1 to 3 dB |
Quote: |
anyone have any buss comp settings that i should give a go at? |
Devin Knutson wrote on Wed, 23 July 2008 05:06 | ||
When the context is "compression", the words "pumping" and "perfect" should never, ever be seen in the same sentence. Ever. |
Quote: |
There's a reason that your neighbor's kids are still listening to Led Zeppelin, and it ain't JUST the songs. |
J-Texas wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 13:02 | ||||||||
I know you can't figure this out with an equation like I wrote! That was the only thing that would equal twelve. |
MGAudio wrote on Wed, 23 July 2008 14:32 |
Sure you can calculate the gain reduction with an equation. |
J-Texas wrote on Wed, 23 July 2008 14:35 |
Is this a joke? (because mine was) |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 24 July 2008 12:57 |
how about a vari-mu comp? i'd like to see that math. and actually, let's make a bit harder. tell me the ratio. i have a meter that tells me GR. |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 24 July 2008 14:57 | ||
how about a vari-mu comp? i'd like to see that math. and actually, let's make a bit harder. tell me the ratio. i have a meter that tells me GR. |
YZ wrote on Fri, 25 July 2008 12:15 |
But IMHO it would have little practical use, since you cannot set neither the ratio nor the knee. |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 24 July 2008 10:52 |
listen to the new seether record and tell me it sounds like crap |
loudsongsinc wrote on Sat, 26 July 2008 18:56 |
The gtr player(s) is/are tight. REAL Tight, SUPER tight, the rhythm is spot on. |
loudsongsinc wrote on Sat, 26 July 2008 20:56 |
There's really no mono cancelling to speak of, it doesn't comb filter like a panned mult shifted would. There's something more than doubling or panning going on. . . I think? On "Fallen" it's just hard panning. Sounds like a real tight doubletrack panned L/R. Check out "Fake It" at 0:15 when it comes out of lofi and the crunchy gtrs come in. The gtr player(s) is/are tight. REAL Tight, SUPER tight, the rhythm is spot on. But isn't the left channel a few miliseconds earlier than the right? And in the palm muted part staring at 0:46 the right channel seems to lead the left. Again, the gtr doubles are played TIGHT! Awesome album. |
Colorblind wrote on Fri, 08 August 2008 10:38 |
I thought this was an indie rock forum? Are seether really indie rock? Am I at the wrong meeting? I'm sure the record sounds great, but I'll never be able to listen to it due to the horrible songwriting on any single they've ever pooped out. |
Colorblind wrote on Fri, 08 August 2008 10:38 |
I thought this was an indie rock forum? Are seether really indie rock? Am I at the wrong meeting? I'm sure the record sounds great, but I'll never be able to listen to it due to the horrible songwriting on any single they've ever pooped out. C |
bblackwood wrote on Fri, 08 August 2008 11:03 | ||
So you're unable to learn tips and techniques from other styles or genres of music? That's too bad. |
Podgorny wrote on Fri, 08 August 2008 14:58 |
Come on, Grant. You listen to nickelback because you like the lead singer's hair. |
j.hall wrote on Fri, 08 August 2008 16:53 | ||||
his screen name is "color blind" and it's his first and only post......... the subject matter of the post makes perfect sense................... how bout shudder to think's pony express record? |
Colorblind wrote on Mon, 11 August 2008 12:13 |
do I know you? |
Podgorny wrote on Fri, 08 August 2008 12:58 |
Come on, Grant. You listen to nickelback because you like the lead singer's hair. |
Quote: |
I've been using the Massey CT4 plugin lately and am liking it. |
J-Texas wrote on Tue, 22 July 2008 19:42 |
I'll say that the pumping in Free's "All Right Now" is an almost perfect fine line that you would want to hit on a hard rockin' tune! Man that thing slams. |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 19:06 |
so, i'm re-thinking some of my "standards" and looking to play around a bit, see if something cooler won't present itself to me. i have an SSL 384 buss compressor that sits on my stereo buss. i hardly ever touch it. i've always doen 4:1 ratio, the fastest release and the slowest attack release is 100ms attack is 30ms i'm typically compressing a mix between 1 to 3 dB anyone have any buss comp settings that i should give a go at? |
j.hall wrote on Mon, 01 December 2008 19:15 |
any ME that asks me to take off my buss compression and re-submit mixes is an ME that just got fired. |
Jonah A. Kort wrote on Mon, 01 December 2008 22:25 |
My band has recorded with J. hall a few times and he has mixed a good chunk of songs for us. I can honestly tell you I'd fire the ME if they wanted the buss compression to come off, even if it was Bob Ludwig. All the songs J. has mixed for my band SLAY, I believe buss compression is big part of that sound. It's like a engineer telling drummer not to hit hard because his microphones and gear are sensitive, dude would get fired. Did that make any sense? |
Adam Miller wrote on Mon, 01 December 2008 13:34 | ||
What if it was Bob Ludwig, and taking the compression off made it better? |
Podgorny wrote on Tue, 02 December 2008 21:57 |
No one is debating whether you should deliver limited mixes to the mastering engineer; you shouldn't. But we're not talking about limiting. We're talking about bus compression. It's not about loudness, it's about a sound. And I don't want the mastering engineer to get my sounds for me, thanks. |
grant richard wrote on Tue, 02 December 2008 23:05 |
You should give a ME plenty of headroom to make the mixes loud. That's his job. |
Tricklecharge wrote on Wed, 03 December 2008 01:20 |
How much headroom on a db scale? |
Adam Miller wrote on Mon, 01 December 2008 13:34 | ||
What if it was Bob Ludwig, and taking the compression off made it better? |
iCombs wrote on Tue, 02 December 2008 10:29 |
I can't speak for j., but by listening to his mixes I can tell you that the way he uses buss compression is a big part of his mix style, and to ask for him to change that would probably be asking for a near total remix. I could be wrong on this, but it just seems that way from where I sit. |
Quote: |
I, being a bit more of a rook than j. and some of the others here, tend to print mixes with and without buss compression, though I'm really learning how to hear/use that 2 Buss comp and may be rapidly approaching the day where I just print my mixes with buss comp and to hell with the ME, that's how I want it to sound...not just yet...but perhaps in another few projects. |
mcsnare wrote on Fri, 05 December 2008 05:25 |
Leaving headroom is a total non issue for me with regards to mastering. As long as your stereo buss doesn't have any overs, any level is fine. If you have plugins on the stereo buss inserts just make sure you are not hitting them too hard, cause most don't sound good with lots of level. I routinely get mixes from A list mixers that sound amazing and peak at -.1 dbfs. The mix doesn't have to be that loud to sound good, but if proper attention has been paid to gain staging in the stereo bus inserts, and nothing is clipping, I don't think it matters. Dave |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 04 December 2008 11:52 |
2buss compression only really works if you mix *into* it. it HAS to be on the stereo buss before you even push up the first fader. you HAVE to build your mix through the comp the entire way. if you do this, taking it off *should* leave you not liking your mix. |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 04 December 2008 11:52 |
previous to using buss compression my masters would always come back different. balances would be off, things weren't where i put them. |
Tricklecharge wrote on Sat, 06 December 2008 00:38 |
This may be off topic, but under project setup in Cubase, there's a place to select "Stereo Pan Law/Low". Selections are -6dB, -3dB, 0dB. Can anyone shed light as to what this is? |
mcsnare wrote on Thu, 04 December 2008 23:25 |
Leaving headroom is a total non issue for me with regards to mastering. As long as your stereo buss doesn't have any overs, any level is fine. If you have plugins on the stereo buss inserts just make sure you are not hitting them too hard, cause most don't sound good with lots of level. I routinely get mixes from A list mixers that sound amazing and peak at -.1 dbfs. The mix doesn't have to be that loud to sound good, but if proper attention has been paid to gain staging in the stereo bus inserts, and nothing is clipping, I don't think it matters. Dave |
rankus wrote on Fri, 05 December 2008 17:40 |
Hey J, I'm curious as to your workflow here. Do you start with all faders up... or do you introduce one track at a time and re-adjust your threshold on an ongoing basis? |
J-Texas wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 10:23 |
I don't understand how you can leave the release the same, J. |
Quote: |
my guess it's from the fact that he's got enough experience making the output sonically/dynamically similar from mix to mix |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 09 December 2008 13:33 |
my ssl buss compressor, it does all the real work, i just change the lamps and dust it regularly" |
T. Mueller wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 08:37 | ||
+1. |
Podgorny wrote on Wed, 10 December 2008 00:21 | ||
You've got an original G384, right? Does yours eat bulbs too? |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 09 December 2008 13:33 |
because it sounds good! must we over think and analyze it? the attack, ratio and release on the SSL are *not* variable the release time has so little to do with my work sounding different from project to project. it seems like you guys are giving my SSL all the credit for my mixes. it's just a piece of gear.....a tool "thank for this award, but i can not except it, i must pass it to my ssl buss compressor, it does all the real work, i just change the lamps and dust it regularly" like i said, i do 2 - 4 db of gain reduction on the ssl. it all depends on the song and the feel i'm going for. |
Quote: |
I've never found myself wanting a slower release time on buss compression anyway. |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 10 December 2008 11:25 |
BTW, if there is anyone out there that has opened their mouth and said, "i do it this way because j.hall said to on the internet". i'd imagine that would be the same person who reads The Onion and believes it. |
Quote: |
BTW, if there is anyone out there that has opened their mouth and said, "i do it this way because j.hall said to on the internet". i'd imagine that would be the same person who reads The Onion and believes it. |
T. Mueller wrote on Wed, 10 December 2008 10:33 | ||
Mmmm... I love me some guacamole... http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/bill_clinton_agr ees_to |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 10 December 2008 11:25 |
i want the fastest release i can get away with. if that doesn't make sense, then set your buss compressor on it's fastest release, and hit it hard, and hear what happens. if it doesn't pump like crazy and the lowend still sounds open and big, i think you've found your release time. |
Quote: |
One time the A/V section said something nice about my band. I knew it was too good to be true... |
T. Mueller wrote on Thu, 11 December 2008 04:56 | ||
Are YOU the promising local area band?? No WAY!!! |
Podgorny wrote on Thu, 11 December 2008 01:00 | ||
My attack time changes based on the material, but release time always stays on auto. The faster release times can sound exciting when you a/b, but I like how the auto mode behaves (and how I respond to its behavior). |
j.hall wrote on Fri, 12 December 2008 13:46 |
maybe this will help, maybe not. http://www.thetarhythm.com/BussCompression/Repair.mp3 i did that mix last friday 4dB of buss compression. |
osumosan wrote on Sun, 14 December 2008 20:06 |
J, Do you mind telling us how the tape stop bass note was achieved at that break near the end? Did you just run the mix and stop the machine at that point and then edit the mix pieces back together? Inspired. The low end is so big and really open, too. |
Podgorny wrote on Mon, 15 December 2008 00:18 |
PS: J, I tried your mix bus compressor settings, and now my mixes sound awesome. THANKS! |
Quote: |
My aim is to hit onyl the peak transients, and allow the mix to come up in level a few dB. |
T. Mueller wrote on Mon, 12 January 2009 07:32 | ||
RMS, or peak? Just curious. |
Nick Sevilla wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 11:30 | ||||
Peak Transients. If I did RMS, it would be squashed beyond all comprehension... Cheers |