Slider2 wrote on Thu, 22 December 2005 22:51 |
Is it true that other than bass and vocals, you almost never compress anything? Is mix bus compression ever an option for you at mixdown? |
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 23 December 2005 08:42 |
I'm surprised that Bob and Jim didn't make you compress the room mics on their record, nuclear 1176 style. |
electrical wrote on Fri, 23 December 2005 07:50 | ||
As a rule, I don't use compression as a sound effect. Rarely, it is called for, and then it's the perfect thing. I do use compression on bass guitar most of the time, though not always, and even then, not as much as I see other people use. I often have a limiter or compressor on the bass drum, though not always. About the only thing that I use compression on routinely is vocals. The range of a close-mic recording of a vocalist can span 20dB and more, which makes positioning the vocal within the music problematic; the loud parts are too loud and the quiet parts are too quiet. Generally, I dislike the sound of a compressor working more than I dislike the little bit of extra effort it takes to balance things without it. I virtually never use stereo bus compression. In mastering, there is almost always a peak limiter used to catch the occasional stray peak, but I don't generally like the sound of heavily-compressed music. I'm of the opinion that the dynamics within a piece of music can be as important as the notes, and I always feel like I'm missing something when they are flattened. |
craig wrote on Fri, 23 December 2005 11:04 | ||
I didn't catch the reference, but this brings up a good question...what if ridiculous compression is requested by the client? |
craig wrote on Fri, 23 December 2005 11:04 |
I didn't catch the reference, but this brings up a good question...what if ridiculous compression is requested by the client? |
J.J. Blair wrote on Sat, 24 December 2005 04:05 |
It's around 5:30, Ronny. The point was mainly that it did not look like this: |
electrical wrote on Fri, 23 December 2005 14:40 |
The Jim and Bob record referred-to above is an example. Jimmy Page requested that a slide guitar part in the song "Heart in Your Hand" have its sustain evened-out, and this suggested compression. I tried several compressors and settings, and all of them made |
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 23 December 2005 14:42 |
I'm surprised that Bob and Jim didn't make you compress the room mics on their record, nuclear 1176 style. |
electrical wrote on Fri, 23 December 2005 11:40 |
...It occurred to me that if I played the tape backwards while recopying the part through the compressor, the compressor would still be able to even-out the slowly-modulating sustain, but would not have to deal with a sharp attack... |
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 23 December 2005 12:39 |
...I was able to get the bottom end to tighhten up in a way that I don't think automation could achieve... |
PaulyD wrote on Sun, 25 December 2005 01:18 | ||
Do you sometimes "ride the faders" for bass guitar and/or kick drum? Thx, Paul |
J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 25 December 2005 05:43 |
You see, I love that crushed rooom sound. Give me a pair of ribbons and a pair of 1176s, and I'll give you "When the Levee Breaks". |
bacon skin wrote on Sun, 25 December 2005 03:54 | ||
You already have those things. We would have to give you Bonham. And were those metal drums or Vistalites or what? No, I love that sound too. Those are some of my favorite drum sounds in the world. I use other means to get a similar effect. The reason compression doesn't work with my room mics is because I often have delay on them and, for whatever reason, compression (even in small doses) seems to neutralize the effect of the delay... or something like that. I find it difficult to explain. DF |
PaulyD wrote on Sat, 24 December 2005 22:18 | ||
Do you sometimes "ride the faders" for bass guitar and/or kick drum? Thx, Paul |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 29 December 2005 10:42 |
the whole "compression, or not compression" always makes me wonder if those of you that shy away from compression and say you don't like the sound are the ones that have the most trouble dialing in a comp to sound good and musical. and those who love are the ones who have an easy time working with comps. |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 29 December 2005 12:11 |
fact of the matter is, knowing how a compressor works, and knowing how to work it musically are vastly different things. |
zmix wrote on Thu, 29 December 2005 17:47 |
I hate compression when It's poorly designed, implemented or applied to a track. Record production, engineering, and electronics design all center on one thing: knowing what to listen for. |
j.hall wrote on Fri, 30 December 2005 16:09 |
it's interesting how many people hate compression. i'll be bold enough to say that you guys that hate it, probably have records you find to be brilliant sounding that are totally crushed. |
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i'll keep using tchad blake as my example (for continuity) |
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here's another bold statement..... compression is the sound of modern rock n roll. and quite frankly, i like it. |
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there are some seriously amazing sounding records that are just crushed. Andy Wallace Tchad Blake ... |
electrical wrote on Fri, 30 December 2005 16:49 | ||
Substitue "cliche-riddled, immediately-dated artefacts" for "seriously amazing sounding records" and you've hit another nail on the head. |
wwittman wrote on Fri, 30 December 2005 22:07 |
I'm not prepared, ultimately, to be told how something "should be" used. Appropriate use is entirely in the ear of the beholder. I don;t like "over compresion" as *I* perceive it, either... but neither then do I like many "purist" records where use of no compression, no eq and so on becomes a religion at the expense of any character at all. |
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I think there is too much of the latter, and a judicious, minimal approach is far from a "religion." |
Phi Lion wrote on Sat, 31 December 2005 00:53 |
That Very Expensive Sound If you follow these steps, set your compressor to the settings in the illustrations, and follow the path of the Yellow Knob Road, then by the time you get to this point in the article you'll have a big and bouncy, firm but flexible, juicy and slippery groovy sound. Or as some would say, "a more expensive sound". |
electrical wrote on Fri, 30 December 2005 22:31 | ||
Which do you think is a bigger problem, people who don't do enough to change the music they record, or people who do too much to the sound, trying to somehow "make it special?" I think there is too much of the latter, and a judicious, minimal approach is far from a "religion." It is a response to the problem we all see all around us, that of records that are overcooked in every aspect, and so standardized to a level of abstraction. I think this common tragedy is easily avoidable. I think there are vanishingly few records that would better serve the bands by being more tweaked, more compressed, or generally more slaved-over. It is so easy to manipulate sound that manipulating the sound has become a goal unto itself. I find that ridiculous, and I defend the approach less likely to create freakish sounds and cliches. |
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Substitue "cliche-riddled, immediately-dated artefacts" for "seriously amazing sounding records" and you've hit another nail on the head. |
j.hall wrote on Sat, 31 December 2005 15:00 |
are you implying that your mixes are not dated, or cliche-riddled simply because they are not compressed? i think that's as bold and misleading as my statements.....don't you? |
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to continue with our example. can you honestly tell me that tchad blake's records sound dated solely due to his decisions in the mix phase? |
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Peter Gabriel - Up Soul Coughing - El Osos, Irresistible Bliss, and Ruby Vroom |
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Low - Trust |
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let me get this straight. you claim to be a "neutral" engineer. you are "the employee of the band". you simply do exactly what they want done. so, do the bands come in and pick all the mics, where they want them used, where they are to be positioned, how they want you to print sounds to tape? |
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if a band comes in and wants a "tchad blake-esque" mix, can you deliver? you do what the band wants right? |
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don't you think that's as large of a disservice to the client as the guy who tells them what to play, and compresses everything for the sake of the "gimmick"? |
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unfortunately, this will all come off as very aggressive, when that isn't my intention |
Ross Hogarth wrote on Sat, 31 December 2005 16:08 |
here we are again, deep in the "albini" no shades of grey only black and white as far as the eye can see |
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compression is a tool it can also be a paintbrush |
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I believe that we can be artists in the control room without ego and without taking the vision away from the artist (band) |
Level wrote on Sat, 31 December 2005 17:04 |
Steve...would you ever say...you have a "signature sound"? |
Ross Hogarth wrote on Sat, 31 December 2005 15:08 |
most if not many engineers, have no clue what they are doing |
maxim wrote on Sat, 31 December 2005 21:36 |
hands up who thinks they can recognise an 'albini' record |
maxim wrote on Sat, 31 December 2005 21:36 |
hands up who thinks they can recognise an 'albini' record |
maxim wrote on Sat, 31 December 2005 18:36 |
hands up who thinks they can recognise an 'albini' record |
electrical wrote on Sat, 31 December 2005 15:59 | ||
Well, here's another point: When working with geniuses of unique merit, no amount of production can stifle them. |
Fibes wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 17:21 |
....or absence of production... |
electrical wrote on Sat, 31 December 2005 16:16 | ||
I do not want people to think about me when they hear other people's records. |
electrical wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 16:39 |
Have you ever listened to a record and thought, gee, this sounds too natural? Too much like the real thing? I haven't. I have thought the opposite though, more often than not. |
j.hall wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 18:40 | ||
see, i actually have. |
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the interesting thing to me is that you honestly believe you are neutral. |
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your records sound absolutely 100% like the band in their practice space. |
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and that you think you can actually facilitate anything the band wants sonically. |
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every person on the planet hears sound differently. so what you think a band sounds like and your opinion of being totally neutral in the process is going to be totally different for some one else attempting to do the same exact thing. |
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so, peter gabriel and soul coughing are complete crap and deserve to have, in your opinion, dated and cliched albums. |
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but low (and band you have worked with in the past) is not crap and thus should be respected and given a product that sounds exactly like they would live in a church? |
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so if peter gabriel hired you, would he still be crap, and deserving of a cliched dated record? |
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and if other people really thought you were neutral and could make a record sound like whatever they wanted, why did low hire tchad to mix trust and not you? |
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i also finding it interesting that engineers that are using compression more then you, are considered bad in your eyes. |
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so all these other AE's that are horrible at their jobs but some how still working with bands that sell millions of records they will just go down in the history books as cliched and dated. where things cut in the 50's, 60's, 70's are not dated or cliched? |
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you stand as this planet's sole champion of an uncliched timeless record? |
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you honestly think people hire steve albini for the sole reason of getting aneutral sounding record.........i think you're lying to yourself. people hire you for "that thing you do" just like people hire me for the same reason. |
j.hall wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 15:40 | ||
see, i actually have. |
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every person on the planet hears sound differently. so what you think a band sounds like and your opinion of being totally neutral in the process is going to be totally different for some one else attempting to do the same exact thing. |
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so, peter gabriel and soul coughing are complete crap and deserve to have, in your opinion, dated and cliched albums. |
electrical wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 19:24 |
Not the good stuff, no. I'll take Patsy Cline's "Crazy" and you can have "Material Girl." I'll take AC/DC, and you can have Interpol. |
maxim wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 22:26 |
steve a wrote: what makes you think other ae's don't strive for the same goal, including the some of the ones you bag? how do you know what the band wants? aren't you making an ultimately autocratic decision or do you have consensus sessions on how much compression is just right? did patsy cline have total control over her sound? does madonna? |
maxim wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 22:26 |
steve a wrote: "I think the records are as close to what the band wants as I am capable of" what makes you think other ae's don't strive for the same goal, including the some of the ones you bag? |
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how do you know what the band wants? |
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aren't you making an ultimately autocratic decision or do you have consensus sessions on how much compression is just right? |
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did patsy cline have total control over her sound? |
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does madonna? |
bobkatz wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 14:16 |
That close miking changes the peak to average ratio of a sax player, for example----- to be exagerrated beyond what they sound like live and how they balance with the band? |
electrical wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 17:39 | ||
Have you ever listened to a record and thought, gee, this sounds too natural? Too much like the real thing? I haven't. I have thought the opposite though, more often than not. |
astroshack wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 09:39 | ||
sax players balance with the room! Especially when soloing! Sean |
Fibes wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 10:38 |
I fucking hate semantics... |
Fibes wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 10:38 |
I just tracked a band that asked for "the Albini drum sound." |
electrical wrote on Fri, 30 December 2005 22:31 |
Which do you think is a bigger problem, people who don't do enough to change the music they record, or people who do too much to the sound, trying to somehow "make it special?" |
electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 13:48 | ||
Just delay the room mics 20 ms and call it quits. |
DivideByZero wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 14:25 | ||||
lmao 'If it were only so easy.' M |
Fibes wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 10:38 |
As per compression digital makes me have to use more since the tape isn't there to help the process. That doesn't mean stun, just using the stuff that makes me feel like I'm using tape. |
nobby wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 15:44 |
Albini uses analog tape and IIRC at 15 ips. Got tape compression? |
dikledoux wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 12:05 |
I'm amazed at the HUGE drum sounds on some of this stuff and just assumed they were processed pretty heavily. My friend can't believe "how Albini gets those sounds". It now occurs to me in a flash of realization that he got those sounds in much the same way that they got those Bonham sounds. That guy SOUNDS LIKE THAT when he plays. |
electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 15:48 | ||
Not unless you're abusing the tape. Tape does not compress until it is saturated -- beyond its linear range. I don't like the sound of tape run into saturation, so I try never to let it happen. |
Fibes wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 16:15 | ||||
It's not about tape saturation or compression in the biblical sense. Nope, it's about the way digital handles (or doesn't handle)certain types of transients. It's NOT about warming and NOT about punchy and if you don't track to digital you don't know. |
nobby wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 15:53 |
If they got the John Bonham sound without using compression, I'd be amazed (though either way I'm impressed). |
Fibes wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 16:49 |
So now this is from a technical standpoint... Technically it's about the needle and the body of the syringe; you want to feel one and not the other (sometimes). Are we gonna pretend that digital and analog handle transients the same if I don't supply a white paper? |
nobby wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 16:55 | ||
All you had to say was you don't know either. |
Fibes wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 17:01 | ||||
There is a difference between knowing and teaching that requires 100 times more rigeur of understanding. |
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I prefer the morphine to the prick IYKWIM. |
nobby wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 13:27 |
I haven't used tape in years, but back when I did, if the peak lamp lit a few times or the needle occasionally went into the red, it didn't seem to effect the recording adversely. |
rnicklaus wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 17:34 | ||
The "needle going into the red" doesn't mean anything without the tape formulation and alignment info. |
Fibes wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 14:41 | ||||
Or the meter, mode or type of signal. |
electrical wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 18:24 |
I'm pretty good, actually. I can do most things in the studio. |
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It seems you have created a vision of me that suits your arguments against it, and this matters to you. I'm sorry I'm not like that, and I don't believe or act in a way that would fit this image. I don't like disappointing people. |
j.hall wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 22:19 | ||
WOW. you wanna put that to the test? |
Ross Hogarth wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 16:48 |
Semantics is the core of most agreement and disagreement If you want to disagree with me, choose to hear what I say through a filter and we will disagree even when what we are disagreeing about we really agree |
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This tends to be the case here most often with Steve ... I think on some level |
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I believe that it takes a serious professional with an abundance of skill and talent to stay out of the way when needed and not add what is not needed I believe this to be an art-form in and of itself |
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I am not saying this leads to self importance |
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I just always want it filled and not notice Again, I believe this takes a highly skilled and highly trained waiter I also believe this to be an art-form in and of itself |
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But is that the discussion or is the art of serving the discussion If you choose to disagree with me It is because your choice of semantics causes you to disagree |
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because what I hear you say is You like to stay out of the way and do what you feel is the best way to serve I happen to agree |
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except |
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I feel if someone is floundering and loses themselves in the process or needs help finding their way I do not have a problem stepping in when needed |
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If it is an arrangement idea or compression I feel I am experienced to know when , where and what |
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art i think is the debate what is art ? |
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I believe I am an artist This is probably where the semantics get in the way and disagreement starts |
maxim wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 17:14 |
steve wrote: "I think the very idea that a subordinate job like engineering is on a par with creative arts smacks of arrogance." i think you're stopping yourself from becoming a better engineer |
Linear wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 01:25 | ||
err, can we see your credentials for a statement like that? more specifically, how many albums have you engineered (apart from your own)? it's pretty rich to criticise someone whom has made more records than you've had hot dinners. Chris |
maxim wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 22:14 |
steve wrote: "I think the very idea that a subordinate job like engineering is on a par with creative arts smacks of arrogance." i think you're stopping yourself from becoming a better engineer |
electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 12:48 | ||
Just delay the room mics 20 ms and call it quits. |
craig wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 01:00 | ||||
Ha ha, that's totally it. How did you come about doing this in the first place? |
electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 22:26 |
Well, I was being funny, but okay. What do you think I can't do? |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 11:00 | ||
i was only half serious. a couple last questions though. so if all these engineers are making dated, cliche-riddled records. who are you to judge them for it? honestly, shouldn't you assume that the engineers are behaving like you do and are simply doing what they were asked to do? maybe all these bands are pleased as punch with the records they have. |
electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 18:48 | ||
Just delay the room mics 20 ms and call it quits. |
Marlowe wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 13:29 | ||||
This reply rules.
|
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 08:32 |
Now, if anybody thinks they can achieve the following sound w/o compression, then you know something that I don't. I can get a sound comparable to this even in a 15 sq. ft. room with a pair of ribbons and 1176s, even though I do prefer a larger room. (Maybe I'll post an example later if anybody calls bullshit.) |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 11:00 |
so if all these engineers are making dated, cliche-riddled records. who are you to judge them for it? |
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honestly, shouldn't you assume that the engineers are behaving like you do and are simply doing what they were asked to do? |
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maybe all these bands are pleased as punch with the records they have. |
zmix wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 10:57 |
JJ, FYI, those "Bonham Outtakes" are somewhat bogus. Listen to the actual Zep records... none of that over the top ambience is evident in the original mixes... -CZ |
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 16:03 |
Oops, what I meant to say was the drum room is 15 ft squared. LOL. That's 225 sq ft. D'oh! |
Fibes wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 13:06 |
Whew 'cause I thought you were making an amazing claim. Next thing ya know you'll be micing guitar cabs with whiskey barrels. |
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 16:18 | ||
There's an idea! Scotch or Bourbon? |
chrisj wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 15:59 |
Youbetcha- something like an 1176 with all buttons pushed in- no kick mic I think- but what I said was, you could do that without compression. It would be rather different but the character would be similar. |
chrisj wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 20:22 |
Hang on, 'Levee' was one mic up a stairwell, not a modern multimiked setup with squashed room mics. |
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 15:06 | ||
Chuck, as soon as the other instruments fall in, a lot of the perceived deecay is going to disappear, even if they used this exact drum sound. Maybe those particular songs wound up being mixed less ambiently, but listen to "When the Levee Breaks" or "Bonzo's Montreaux" and tell me they weren't compressing the fuck out of the room. You can clearly hear how much there is in the absence of the other instruments. |
kraster wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 18:31 | ||
It was two Beyer M160s on the first floor of Headley Grange with Bonzo down Below. The two Mics were then fed into A&D F-700 compressors with the slowest attack and fastest release times. The signal was also fed into a Binson echo which in turn was fed to the compressors as well. The Binson gives the whole sound that metallic resonance and the weird doubling effect. But it's Bonham and the Ludwig that is the biggest factor IMHO. |
zmix wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 23:39 |
I thought that the "Helios" (aka A+D & R ) compressor myth was put to rest when it was revealed that in fact these were 1176s on that ttrack. Where did you get this info? |
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 20:16 |
Chuck, I don't hear verb at all. That is nothing but compression and the big marble slabs in Polar Studios. And just to prove my point... Here's some drums. A completely mismatched pair of ribbons (BK-11 and a 4038)through Neve 1073s and an 1178 on 'stun'. No reverb or delay whatsoever, in a 15x15 ft room. About 15 seconds into the clip, I mute the room so you can hear the close mics. As I said, no verb, no delay, no EQ, just all mic choice, placement and compression. (BTW, it's funny to know that they used M160s for Levee. When I'm in another room, that is usually what I will use if they have a pair. That or 4038s.) |
kraster wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 20:53 | ||
|
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 01:16 |
Chuck, I don't hear verb at all. That is nothing but compression and the big marble slabs in Polar Studios. And just to prove my point... Here's some drums. A completely mismatched pair of ribbons (BK-11 and a 4038)through Neve 1073s and an 1178 on 'stun'. No reverb or delay whatsoever, in a 15x15 ft room. About 15 seconds into the clip, I mute the room so you can hear the close mics. As I said, no verb, no delay, no EQ, just all mic choice, placement and compression. (BTW, it's funny to know that they used M160s for Levee. When I'm in another room, that is usually what I will use if they have a pair. That or 4038s.) |
bjornson wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 09:18 |
Weak, standard issue, vibeless use of compression. |
bjornson wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 07:18 |
Weak, standard issue, vibeless use of compression. |
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 15:51 |
Hey, and I don't even drink! See how intuitive that was? LOL. |
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Vern, I would tend to agree if not for the fact that he's recalling setting a non-existent attack time. |
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 10:17 |
Yeah, no attack time and they are only $4700 each. |
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BTW, Chuck, if you feel the need to smack me, you are always welcome to stay here, too. |
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 17:37 | ||
Vibeless? I think your monitors might be broken. Either that, or you are listening on your laptop. BTW, does this forum have the same anonymity rules as the other forums? I like knowing who is taking shots at me. This could be AJ, for all I know. |
zmix wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 10:50 | ||||
Vintage King have some F700 compressors for sale: http://www.vintageking.com/s.nl/sc.14/category.143/it.A/id.2 970/.f But they do not even have an adjustment for the atack time... Seems more likely that "Levee" was the 1176 after all.... |
bjornson wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 13:20 |
My 1178's just don't sound anything like that. |
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 22:13 |
Kraster, you seem to have a point, BTW. Those are indeed different. If only Andy Johns' brain weren't mush, we could get a straight story! |
bjornson wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 15:20 |
My 1178's just don't sound anything like that. |
kraster wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 17:04 |
What about these then? It seems there were different models of the F700. |
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 22:24 |
Kraster, to be fair, that was the interviewer who didn't know which record it was. |
DivideByZero wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 18:33 |
That room is depressingly tremendous! M |
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there are some seriously amazing sounding records that are just crushed. Andy Wallace Tchad Blake ... |
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Substitue "cliche-riddled, immediately-dated artefacts" for "seriously amazing sounding records" and you've hit another nail on the head. |
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maybe all these bands are pleased as punch with the records they have. |
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I'm sure some of them are. My aunt Mabel liked her husband fine. He didn't beat her much. |
groucho wrote on Fri, 30 June 2006 06:07 | ||||
While most of what Steve has said on this subject seems pretty sensible, this strikes me as somewhat inconsistant with his general philiosophy of "give the band what they want." It's one thing to say that he prefers records that aren't super compressed or heavily processed. But to compare those who DO prefer those kinds of sounds to victims of domestic abuse seems to cross the line into arrogance. Sure, there are tons of engineers imposing their cliche-ridden visions on the band, there are tons of engineers with deluded, overinflated senses of themselves as "artists" and "collaborators", etc. etc. I can buy all that. But the dirty little secret just might be that... there are a lot of bands who LIKE it this way. Chris |
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I was hoping that Steve was going to address this specifically. He hasn't, so I will. Don't you think, that if a band chooses to work with Steve Albini, they already know how it's going to go? |
groucho wrote on Mon, 03 July 2006 04:10 |
When someone mentioned that it might in fact be the BANDS who often REQUEST this kind of treatment, he responded with the above quote comparing them to people who are too dumb to know they're being abused. This seems out of line with his general respect for the band's desires, so I assume I'm misunderstanding him here. Either that or, just like everyone else in recording it seems, he really just thinks that his way is the ONLY good way and it happened to leak out in that one comment. Chris |
CWHumphrey wrote on Mon, 03 July 2006 04:39 |
Especially in this particular thread, please quote him directly and show me where he has imposed his opinion. As I recall, Steve said that he generally doesn't use a lot of compression not that other people should not use a lot of compression. Cheers, Carter William Humphrey |
electrical wrote on Fri, 23 December 2005 07:50 |
As a rule, I don't use compression as a sound effect. Rarely, it is called for, and then it's the perfect thing. I do use compression on bass guitar most of the time, though not always, and even then, not as much as I see other people use. I often have a limiter or compressor on the bass drum, though not always. I virtually never use stereo bus compression. In mastering, there is almost always a peak limiter used to catch the occasional stray peak, but I don't generally like the sound of heavily-compressed music. I'm of the opinion that the dynamics within a piece of music can be as important as the notes, and I always feel like I'm missing something when they are flattened. |
electrical wrote on Fri, 23 December 2005 19:40 |
If a client requests that I make him pancakes, I'll do it. The client gets what the client wants, anything short of a prostate massage. Often, bands have heard through the grapevine that they should concern themselves with compression, and ask to hear it on many sounds. Generally, they do not prefer the sound of the compressed signal compared to the un-processed signal, but in some instances they find a use for it that I wouldn't. Robert Plant also really liked heavy compression on his voice, but he "sang to the sound" in his headphones, so it was incorporated into his performance and sounded quite nice. |
electrical wrote on Fri, 30 December 2005 21:49 |
It's not that compressing music never works, but that it should not be a default maneuver, |
electrical wrote on Sat, 31 December 2005 03:31 |
I think there are vanishingly few records that would better serve the bands by being more tweaked, more compressed, or generally more slaved-over. It is so easy to manipulate sound that manipulating the sound has become a goal unto itself. I find that ridiculous, and I defend the approach less likely to create freakish sounds and cliches. |
electrical wrote on Sat, 31 December 2005 21:24 |
I think I'm an experienced specialist in a technical field, trying to help a band use a sometimes-convoluted process to make a recording. I recognize that my contribution to their record is subordinate to theirs to an enormous degree. I would never suggest that I am "collaborating" with them. I am working for them. |
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Especially in this particular thread, please quote him directly and show me where he has imposed his opinion. |
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I gotta honest with you. I think your trying to put a coat on Steve that just doesn't fit. |
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Again Carter, I kinda feel like you're not really reading what I'm writing, but are responding to some other, larger agenda. You seem very concerned with "sides". I just found that one remark of Steve's sort of curious and inconsistant with the rest of his "philosophy". That's all. I hope it was clear that my "like evryone else he thinks his way is best" comment was tongue-in-cheek. Chris |
Ashermusic wrote on Sat, 24 December 2005 00:28 | ||||
Standing ovation here! Accurately stated for an analog guy |
Pingu wrote on Sun, 09 July 2006 21:48 |
Different rules apply ITB |