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[Augustine Leudar]

Classical music has a large dynamic range.
If you were to compress a whole symphony and you wanted to make the quiet bits a little bit louder without making the loud bits quieter, how would you set your compressor ?
I am using waves c4 and have the threshold set high and the gain slightly up.
Maybe its just lazy and I should do it all manually with the faders  
Anyone know a better digital compressor (if you had to use digital)or have any useful tips ?
cheers,
Gus

[Level]

C4 is brutal to classical music. Without listening to the score, it would be all but imposable to recommend anything with it.

Now...take this with a grain of salt..if you are using plugs, try the ren compressor. get a feel for what it does to the pianissimo passages. Your noise floor will come up. This is guaranteed. Use the ever so slight settings. Quick rise time and long decay.

I have a VERY dynamic concert I recorded in 1999 and it just so happens I revisited it last night to "see how I did" compared to today. I used analogue outboard compression, never more than 1.5 to 1 and if I recall correctly, all I needed was a few few db on the ppp parts and this bass clarinet solo needed to come up some. In post, I had a rough time with her so the only answer was to regroup, re seat, re record and dub her in. You may not have this luxury.

Also..it does not hurt (if you are very careful and pay close attention to your zero crossings) to region off sections and nudge the level just a shade incrementally during a decrescendo. I know..it is hard but when you are talking about -55dB instruments VS peaks of 0.5dB, you HAVE to accommodate the consumer side of the production.

This, is a total ears deal here.

[Tidewater]

Dynamics? Yes, they are supposed to be there.

That said, you need something called 'companding' to do what you just asked about. expanding/compressing.. you are bringing the floor up, and knocking the top off, decreasing dynamic range, both directions.

Waves.. try C1 instead of C4. You'll have to mess with the settings. I think there may possibly be a stock setup to get you going.

I haven't done any companding since DBX! I think DBX was 2:1 compress, and 2:1 expand. you want the compression to be quick, and the expansion to be slower.

Classical? Please don't do it.


M

[Level]

Miles, some recordings have so much range that if you had 1000 watts of output power you would go into severe clipping. Just to even hear some of the light brush strokes on a snare during ppp parts would require an extra 50 to 60dB of power for the fff parts. I am afraid that without some form of slight compression, none of this would be consumer compatable, even with the finest of systems.

I am not talking about smashing it..no no no no noooo.

But anything you record MUST be consumer compatable.

One reproduction that had to be compressed when offered was Telarc's (Cincinatti) 1812th overture. Just the difference between the concert bass drum and the Canon fire (both fff instruments) was over 15dB, obviously, you would never hear the intro if it were not. They used the least limiting as they could get away with.

Ever seen the grooves on the actual album? WOW!

Some idea of this...the tympani stroke during the opening (supposed to be forte) was at -31dB peak.

[CCC]

Augustine Leudar wrote on Sun, 06 November 2005 14:52

Classical music has a large dynamic range. If you were to compress a whole symphony and you wanted to make the quiet bits a little bit louder without making the loud bits quieter, how would you set your compressor ? I am using waves c4 and have the threshold set high and the gain slightly up. Maybe its just lazy and I should do it all manually with the faders   Anyone know a better digital compressor (if you had to use digital)or have any useful tips ? cheers, Gus

the classical guys that i know tend to eschew compression as i recollect. however i do know of some folks who will do one of two things; either pop the level on the entire program up a few db and then reduce the level on the peaks to avoid clips (time and labor intensive); or just raise the level on the pianissimo bits a little. this is all done manually in a workstation, not by using an actual compressor.

[Tidewater]

These timpani players need to stop stroking, and hit the damned drums!

When I say 'no', I feel like most people are going to think I mean 'maybe some', and stay mindful. It's the alarmist in me.

In my defense, I did explain a method to help it, but, I'll plead guilty, and take my licks.

1812? Where would one find a cannonist, that doesn't play by ear?




M

[Barry Hufker]

I record a lot of classical music.  The best compressor is you.  Know the score.  Anticipate loud passages and pull them down a bit.  Anticipate soft passages and pull them up a bit.  That's best.

If you must use a plugin, use one that allows the loud passages to peak without reduction and one that just brings up the lower level signals.


Barry

[Ronny]

Mic sections and soloists and you won't have these problems that y'all are trying to fix with the compression.

[Barry Hufker]

I can see micing soloists -- and even if one mics sections, then there still can be a need for compression.

A traditional orchestral sound is done with either two mics or many more.  But the section mics are mixed in just enough to lend presence, not to be the main pickup for that section.

If spot mics are the main contributor for a given section, then you have a more "Hollywood" approach to how the orchestra sounds.  This can lead to the artificial accentuation of the orchestra parts the composer never wanted you to 'hear' as much as just "experience" as a 'color' in the score.

The multimic approach is something Deutsche Gramophone is known for.  They over-do it to the point where there is no depth or air in their recordings.  And from a practical situation if the recording is mult-tracked, the conductor may hear one mix during a session only to find him/herself presented with a completely different mix after the session.

Even at this, I still can see where compression could be called for.

Barry

[Curve Dominant]

Quote:

To compress or not to compress...

Or do both...

Recently I mixed a traditional jazz ensemble who's bandleader/arranger didn't like the sound of compression across his band's mix, but he still wanted "that sound" of a nicely compressed mix. So I told him, "We'll do both."

I made one mix of the songs with no compression whatsoever. Then, compressed heavily a duplicate of the same mix, and mixed it ever-so-slightly with the uncompressed mix.

Worked. Phat, but all the dynamics still there.

That trick could work on a full classical orchestra mix, I bet.

[Level]

I recorded, mixed and mastered this in 1999, the Arkansas Tech University Wind Symphony. The compression for this was done with fingers on the faders. It was a 5 channel recording.

See link below. It is dynamic.

Curve, I have used that technique in the past with predictably good results!

[smj]

Volume automation would be the cleaner solution...though it might take a bit of time...but I think it would be a lot more transparent.

Sean Meredith-Jones

[resolectric]

Whatever the option you go for, work with the conductor.

Let him hear the original, uncompressed, recording and let him guide you while adjusting the compressor (or expander) settings.

If you go for manual riding of faders, maybe the conductor will do it properly. Afterall, that's his part of the job. While directing he's addressing not only the Tempo but also adjusting those invisible "faders" that control the orchestra sections.
Maybe he'll adapt well with real faders.

Maybe you can record his fader movements and then edit when needed.

[Barry Hufker]

Curve,

You reminded me that we used to do that for an orchestra -- mix compressed and uncompressed.  It's been so long I know I am going to get the details wrong but here's my very vague recollection.

We used to have two faders with the entire piece uncompressed.  And we adjusted that until it peaked right to the level we wanted.  Then putting the same music on two other faders, we compressed the daylights out of the music -- in a way very similar to the type of compression one would get from Dolby A if it weren't decoded.  Then we mixed that in at -20.

The idea was that when the music was loud, the peaks would be uncompressed and would sound natural.  And the music would be loud enough to hide the heavily compressed sound.  Then as the music moved to softer passages, the compressed sound would be loud enough to keep the soft passages up in level but would not know sound so heavily compressed.

It was a decent way to do the job...

Barry

[timrob]

Parllel compression Rocks. I use it all the time for acoustic based music. Haven't had the opportunity to do any mixing of symphonic works. I imagine the technic would work well.