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[Rob Darling]

Long time user of both platforms. Still own both (HD2 and Nuendo 3 with 3 firefaces, 3 uad, 3 poco.)

I prefer working in N deeply.  There are a few functionalities I miss from PT, but no deal-breakers.  The key thing is that, overall, I get more done faster in a day in N, and I'm less drained.  It took me a while to get to that place- I started with PT, had used it for about 5 years before N, and kept trying to use N like PT.  But once I understood the N approach, it was much easier.  

The big difference is that N focuses on the object and the mouse, rather than tools and keystrokes, so you're not constantly converting the action you want to perform with one hand into a choice and action being performed by the other.  You just don't have to jockey things around or think about how to get something done as much.  If I want to change the size of something, I grab the edge of it and change it, rather that deciding I need a new tool, hitting a keystroke, and then changing it.  Very subtle, but let me tell you, the cumulative value of hitting 5 fewer keystrokes in every minute is very powerful.

In addition, the objects are much more dynamic (fades don't have to be removed to trim a region, crossfades can stay in place while each side is trimmed back and forth, audio can be moved inside a region definition while fades remain in place...)  It's a lot of little things, but it adds up to an easier day.  

I still work a lot in PT outside of my place, but I don't if I can avoid it.

As for the sound, I'm fine with both now that it's HD, though the pan-law in PT bugs me a lot.

[wavdoctor]

brings to mind another question..I and another friend use Nuendo and a third friend uses PT, What is the best way to get his PT files into Nuendo and vice-versa? We struggled for a while and gave up? As far as sound I only worked in PT on one session and the owner/engineer was so deaf he blew my ears out!! Thats why I would rather move his files to my studio..Sorry If I hi-jacked your thread..

Harry

[compasspnt]

wavdoctor wrote on Mon, 24 October 2005 12:03

brings to mind another question..What is the best way to get his PT files into Nuendo and vice-versa?

Not sure, but have you looked here?

http://railjonrogut.com/

If anyone does it, this man does...

[Patrick Brannen]

I like having both.
I actually like Nuendo if I have to edit the crud out of something. If I have 50 crossfades on one track with the crossfade window I can customize each individual CF and the track will be done in about a minute.
Pro Tools takes me a little longer.
But where Pro Tools wins out for me is in plug-in developement.

[John Ivan]

Patrick Brannen wrote on Mon, 24 October 2005 21:22

I like having both. I actually like Nuendo if I have to edit the crud out of something. If I have 50 crossfades on one track with the crossfade window I can customize each individual CF and the track will be done in about a minute. Pro Tools takes me a little longer. But where Pro Tools wins out for me is in plug-in developement.

Hello Patrick,

This is interesting to me.  What is it about Digi's plug-in development that you find to be leading or, ahead of the pack. Just wondering.

Ivan.................

[Rob Darling]

The only Plugs, to me, that PT has that just don't exist in the VST world are the Eventide plugs.  This is actually the only thing I use my PT system for.  I have a bunch of sends from N to PT and always have some 910's, 949's, flangers, and phasers at the ready.  

Otherwise everything useful- UAD classic dyn, Sony Oxford, etc- is well covered.  And, BTW, I've been using Drumagog, the best sample replacement system there is, for years.  And the UAD delay modulation stuff that comes stock is some of the best I've used, hardware or software.  Add to that the Dimension D and the Roland CE-1.  

I could go on, but just making a point- there's some pretty great stuff on both sides of the fence.

[Rob Darling]

As for getting sessions back and forth, it will be tough.  You have to use OMF, but it is cranky until you've done it a few times and is still prone to problems when you do something new in your project that you don't know will screw things up.  Digi always blames everyone else, but can EVERY developer out there be screwing it up?   This is the kind of stuff that gets Digi the ill will that they get.  There are nine million reasons why someone might be using a different program, especially if they are a composer, but communicating back to PT's world sucks.  There is a very strong industry standard for daw interchange in place with aes-31, but Digi refuses to support it.  

[Augustine Leudar]

So if theyre going to be akward and snotty and Nuendo is just as good why are they still the industry standard ? Is it like NS10s ?

[zetterstroem]

robdarling@mail.com wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 13:51

As for getting sessions back and forth, it will be tough.  You have to use OMF, but it is cranky until you've done it a few times and is still prone to problems when you do something new in your project that you don't know will screw things up.  Digi always blames everyone else, but can EVERY developer out there be screwing it up?   This is the kind of stuff that gets Digi the ill will that they get.  There are nine million reasons why someone might be using a different program, especially if they are a composer, but communicating back to PT's world sucks.  There is a very strong industry standard for daw interchange in place with aes-31, but Digi refuses to support it.

how hard can it be to bounce/glue files to start from the same point???

this works regardless of platform and software and is totally foolproof.... worked for me for years.... never used omf.... to much s**t.....

[zetterstroem]

Augustine Leudar wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 13:59

So if theyre going to be akward and snotty and Nuendo is just as good why are they still the industry standard ? Is it like NS10s ?

wouldn't use nuendo unless i was paid good money..... pt is still better for what i do...

yes i've worked with nuendo..... our studio had it for a year...... the keyword is had..... use logic express for some of my midi...

and i've worked with cubase..... (had sx2 on my laptop).... most recently sx3.... completly awful for mix/mastering work imo.... the user interface is complety cluttered... there's alot of funtcions to make it easier but they would be redundant if the layout was more simple.... i use one window for all my pt work with only one plugin window open at a time....

comparing protools to ns10's is downright.... ns10's are essentially awful speakers that have somehow found use in the pro music business.... they are good for levels and chechking out a mix.... that's it..... i think so many was bought due to a severe case of "flavor of the week"... or rather flavor of the decade....

protools is more than usefull..... it actually have changed the way music is produced..... it is still the shortest way from thought to action when it comes to audio editing/mixing/mastering....

the current "flavor of the week" is that pt sucks and everything else doesn't..... almost every piece of crap software has it's followers.....

and i can understand why..... digidesign (and even worse waves) are very arrogant in the way they run their company......

so go ahead and do whatever you like and use whatever you like..... but i'm sick and tired of all the pt bashing....

[presto]

zetterstroem wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 22:48

Augustine Leudar wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 13:59 So if theyre going to be akward and snotty and Nuendo is just as good why are they still the industry standard ? Is it like NS10s ? wouldn't use nuendo unless i was paid good money..... pt is still better for what i do... yes i've worked with nuendo..... our studio had it for a year...... the keyword is had..... use logic express for some of my midi... and i've worked with cubase..... (had sx2 on my laptop).... most recently sx3.... completly awful for mix/mastering work imo.... the user interface is complety cluttered... there's alot of funtcions to make it easier but they would be redundant if the layout was more simple.... i use one window for all my pt work with only one plugin window open at a time.... comparing protools to ns10's is downright.... ns10's are essentially awful speakers that have somehow found use in the pro music business.... they are good for levels and chechking out a mix.... that's it..... i think so many was bought due to a severe case of "flavor of the week"... or rather flavor of the decade.... protools is more than usefull..... it actually have changed the way music is produced..... it is still the shortest way from thought to action when it comes to audio editing/mixing/mastering.... the current "flavor of the week" is that pt sucks and everything else doesn't..... almost every piece of crap software has it's followers..... and i can understand why..... digidesign (and even worse waves) are very arrogant in the way they run their company...... so go ahead and do whatever you like and use whatever you like..... but i'm sick and tired of all the pt bashing....

Hah! don't be so precious!! I didn't see any PT bashing here. Up until now the thread had actually remained quite suprisingly objective!

back to topic.

haven't been using PT for as long as I have been using Cubase, but for the pro standard, there seem to be a few basic functions omitted in PT. I find editing easier in Cubase, but the ease in PT may come with time. I prefer working with the Aux tracks in PT rather than groups in Cubase.

In the end much of a muchness as far as functionality.

back off topic. I've always found Waves, in particular, to run their ship in a professional manner. (This is more so than any other company that I've dealt with in fact)  On the few occasions that I've had to contact them for tech support they have always been promt, polite and professional in responding to, and resolving the problem.  When you say arrogant, maybe you're talking about their marketing stratergy or something???

[compasspnt]

Thank you Rune.

Here at our place we get every kind of client.  At least 60% of them are at the very, very highest level of the business, in production, engineering, artistry, and sales.  I would say that 95% of ALL of our clients use only Protools.  The rest have used Logic on Digidesign hardware, except one time a MOTU, and twice RADAR.  These are people who can afford anything they want.  There is a reason for this.

We have never had Nuendo, or Cubase, or SAW, or any of the other competing systems come in here.  I'm sure they can work just fine, and if you know the system, be an excellent tool (a "pro" one) for anyone.

But to senselessly bash Digidesign is ridiculous.  The system is a tool.  It is professional.  It works.  Almost everyone uses it.

If we were to suddenly even suggest to our clients that they should use our new Nuendo/Cubase/Whatever else instead, there would be laughter, and lost clients.

[Thorhallur]

I've been using cubase for years but have recently come to the conclusion that pro tools is far superior when it comes to mixing.  The total absence of any practical routing options in cubase have completely thrown me off.
The "groups" in cubase aren´t enough.

Pro tools feels much more like a "real" mixer where you can route your signal from a->b on the fly.

I prefer cubase for composition/midi work though.

my 2 cents

[John Ivan]

zetterstroem wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 07:48

Augustine Leudar wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 13:59 So if theyre going to be akward and snotty and Nuendo is just as good why are they still the industry standard ? Is it like NS10s ? wouldn't use nuendo unless i was paid good money..... pt is still better for what i do... yes i've worked with nuendo..... our studio had it for a year...... the keyword is had..... use logic express for some of my midi... and i've worked with cubase..... (had sx2 on my laptop).... most recently sx3.... completly awful for mix/mastering work imo.... the user interface is complety cluttered... there's alot of funtcions to make it easier but they would be redundant if the layout was more simple.... i use one window for all my pt work with only one plugin window open at a time.... comparing protools to ns10's is downright.... ns10's are essentially awful speakers that have somehow found use in the pro music business.... they are good for levels and chechking out a mix.... that's it..... i think so many was bought due to a severe case of "flavor of the week"... or rather flavor of the decade.... protools is more than usefull..... it actually have changed the way music is produced..... it is still the shortest way from thought to action when it comes to audio editing/mixing/mastering.... the current "flavor of the week" is that pt sucks and everything else doesn't..... almost every piece of crap software has it's followers..... and i can understand why..... digidesign (and even worse waves) are very arrogant in the way they run their company...... so go ahead and do whatever you like and use whatever you like..... but i'm sick and tired of all the pt bashing....

OK, that's cool. I just thought I would tell you that a huge list of records were mixed, not "check" on NS=10's. Also, the reason I don't like pro tools is based on year and years of experience with it simply not working. Period. It way be working now, but they are way way to late to ever get my business again.

I wont get into a pissing match here because I'm old an tired but, If you think think PT is a great editor, you need to look closely at Samplitude. I my opinion,based on experience, not'Fad", PT is a toy. Man, Look what applying fades does to the rest of the editing tools ,, that alone is a joke. On top of that, you had them selling the 888 as if it were better sounding than,,, I don't know,,,, something.. My Layla card sounds all DAY as good. Some people Pro tools bash because the company has done a horrid job. They want way way way to much money for hardware that is JUST OK,, not GREAT. and like I said, the editor is a bad joke that everyone just got used to.

Ivan............

[John Ivan]

compasspnt wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 09:42

Thank you Rune. Here at our place we get every kind of client.  At least 60% of them are at the very, very highest level of the business, in production, engineering, artistry, and sales.  I would say that 95% of ALL of our clients use only Protools.  The rest have used Logic on Digidesign hardware, except one time a MOTU, and twice RADAR.  These are people who can afford anything they want.  There is a reason for this. We have never had Nuendo, or Cubase, or SAW, or any of the other competing systems come in here.  I'm sure they can work just fine, and if you know the system, be an excellent tool (a "pro" one) for anyone. But to senselessly bash Digidesign is ridiculous.  The system is a tool.  It is professional.  It works.  Almost everyone uses it. If we were to suddenly even suggest to our clients that they should use our new Nuendo/Cubase/Whatever else instead, there would be laughter, and lost clients.

Yes, this all makes sense. And, I want to make something very very clear. I don't willy nilly, run around bashing anyone, or anything. Period. Just to be clear However,,,


Digi has done things as a company that are inexcusable. If they were a console company, they would have been dead years ago. I know we all have our opinions about the software it's self, {I'm going and BUYING an 002} But what they charge for hardware is enough for me to never look at their big rig. I MUST get at least something to open some of this stuff with, but see, there you go. The product is everywhere and they know damn well that I must have it...

So many other companies are forward thinking and working their asses off for market share. SAW and SAM and NU ar ALL better software packages. Some of this is opinion I know, but much of it can be measured. I heard someone say they thought Nuendo felt cluttered. Well, you can make it look how ever you want. You can hide most every feature.

I just think it's to bad that Pro Tools users wont look at whats been going on in software development over the last 5 years,outside Digi. So So much good has been done and digi can't take part much because they need to hold their market share.

Man, I just can't believe the money they get. Really. It;s plain crazy.

Ivan.......