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Author Topic: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar  (Read 7877 times)

lord

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2005, 12:12:27 pm »

Modern rock is barely stereo-compatible. Who cares about mono? If you check mono and it still sounds like the same band, you're good.

Don't a lot of records get the low end "spread out" in mastering?

Modern rock that I hear has no solid sounds anywhere. It's all a washy murk splattered all over the stereo field. Wide bass is part of that "polish".  
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j.hall

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2005, 12:23:00 pm »

then consider it part of the "j.hall" sound.  if i have any clue that a song might get played on radio, i check mono.  in fact, i do it for every song i mix.  i want to know exactly what is canceling and what isn't as i work.  and recently, most of what i've been mixing has a good posibility of seeing radio play.  college radio still counts right?

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alanfc

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2005, 01:18:33 pm »

OK now we're gettin somewhere

lets say I stick with the traditional single bass track.
I would really like to avoid this phase business!

How about panning it 10% Left or right----
is this enough to make a little more space for the kick?
This of course is assuming that I've done a good job with EQ between kick and bass.
Or is 10% too much , or not enough. Of course I need to play with this myself but I was just curious (and posting from work).
Thanks Alot
Cool
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j.hall

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2005, 02:51:00 pm »

i pan kick and snare up the center 90% of the time i mix and i don't have a problem getting it to work.

i've panned all the drums hard left and the bass hard right on certain songs for more of vibe......but i wouldn't call that any sort of typical approach.

if the bass in up the center and you only have one track of it, phase is irrelevant (at least for the bass).

if you really want to pan it, then just use your ears.  you want to avoid adding too much weight to one side of the mix that you can't balance out on the other.....this of course is very general, i've done plenty of mixes that are weighted to one side or another....but typically it's not with the bass.  

mono compatibility is a big issue.  and as i agree with Max that things are getting really "smeary" i also disagree by the fact of listening to many current albums in mono in my studio.  you lose a lot of the glitz and glamour, but the mix still pounds through with bass, drums, guitar, and vocals in mono....and for rock n roll, that's what is important.

big rock band, with kick, snare, bass, and lead vocal all panned up the center.

Urgency
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alanfc

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2005, 03:47:22 pm »


COOL thank you, I'll DL this tonite ! Smile
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NelsonL

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2005, 03:59:40 pm »

Yo J.

I don't think that link is working-- then again, neither am I.
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j.hall

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2005, 04:43:36 pm »

thanks liam.....it's fixed and working now.
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John Ivan

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2005, 04:52:50 pm »

Hey All,

I thought I might share this thing I've done before. Can't remember where I got it but,,,

I have in the past,taken a DI bass and run it through a two way cross over. I can then mess around with limiting the top and bottom separately and can "effect" the top band with a very small amount of pitch shift. I too check for mono but I would be happier if I could let that go. J is right though, If it's going on the radio, you should check for mono.

Ivan.....
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"Transformation is no easy trick: It's what art promises and usually doesn't deliver." Garrison Keillor

 

NelsonL

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2005, 05:01:40 pm »

We used the IPB as a Bass DI recently and it sounded great--

I'd be interested to try it in conjunction with a mic'd rig sometime just for fun, although I doubt I'd pan them very far apart if at all.

 
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j.hall

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2005, 06:14:12 pm »

ivan40 wrote on Tue, 18 October 2005 15:52

 J is right though, If it's going on the radio, you should check for mono.

Ivan.....


thanks Ivan, but i think people should be checking for mono ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!

radio or not, you haven't a clue where your mixes will end up.

it is our responsibility as professionals to deliver a professional product that can stand up under any circumstance.  mono is the true test for a mix.  if the music keeps going with little effect on the balances then you are good.  but if too many things disappear or get shifted then you need to keep working.
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bloodstone

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2005, 01:47:24 pm »

j.hall wrote on Tue, 18 October 2005 14:50

so what do you do about mono compatibility?

the mic'd amp will arrive later then the DI leaving you with phase issues in the bottom.  unless you are correcting this with a little labs box or nudging it in a DAW, i think this practice is far to risky for me to adopt.  and it should be noted to others reading this that it could be potentially hazardous.


Never had problems with phase that I could "hear".  When would mono compatibility come into play in a stereo world?  One speaker boom boxes?  Mono PA systems?  Cheap car radios?

One more thought: if you listen to an old stereo recording on vinyl of the Beatles Rubber Soul, the bass will be hard-panned left or right, along with things like drums, etc.  How does that factor into mono compatibility?

All I can say is that I've recorded & mixed about 10 full-length records in my life and tracked & mixed probably 400 songs and always get compliments on the sound of the bass.  I used this technique on every recording.  It works for me, but ya don't have to embrace it if ya don't want to.

I check mono a lot, too.  But not on every mix

I would be interested to see you elaborate on the phase/mono compatibility issues.

Also, not sure if this makes any difference, but in these cases signal routing is bass/DI/bass amp.  Both the miced amp and the DI were patched into a 100' snake.  
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NelsonL

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2005, 02:22:08 pm »

FM broadcasts collapse to mono at times.

Cheap TV's often only have one speaker, like the boom box you mention.

Junky soundcards in the office environment might be another.

I'm sure there are more examples, FM is a pretty good one on it's own merit.
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bloodstone

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2005, 03:01:06 pm »

rattleyour wrote on Thu, 20 October 2005 19:22

FM broadcasts collapse to mono at times.

Cheap TV's often only have one speaker, like the boom box you mention.

Junky soundcards in the office environment might be another.

I'm sure there are more examples, FM is a pretty good one on it's own merit.


Is it a definite that bass hard panned left and right will be inaudible on a mono system, or just potentially possible?   Is that why old releases on vinyl had mono and stereo versions?
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scott volthause

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2005, 03:33:43 pm »

bloodstone wrote on Thu, 20 October 2005 15:01



Is it a definite that bass hard panned left and right will be inaudible on a mono system, or just potentially possible?   Is that why old releases on vinyl had mono and stereo versions?


It's not definite unless the two bass signals have out of phase content, and only then will the out of phase content cancel.

Vinyl is a whole 'nother ball of wax (pun intended? i dunno). Out of phase bass content was a serous no-no with vinyl, but more from a manufacturing angle. The lathe head used to cut the master would do funky things (like jump out of the groove) when there was out of phase content in the lower freqs.
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scott volthause

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Re: So I think I'm hearing stereo Bass guitar
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2005, 03:36:17 pm »

j.hall wrote on Tue, 18 October 2005 18:14


thanks Ivan, but i think people should be checking for mono ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!



agreed X 1000.
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