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[Guest]

I currently have an M-Audio Delta 1010. I know it's not the necessarily on the highest rung, but it won't make or break an album either. I'm considering going with a Presonus Firebox instead, because it's more compact, is Firewire, and will generally suits my needs more.

My question to y'all is, how are the A/D converters in the grand scheme of A/D converters?

Would the Firebox be a step up, down, or just to the side?

I'm very much a "these are the tools I have, and I'm going to make them sound good for me" kind of guy, so I'm not expecting the epitome of recording technology. Just wondering if it's gear that won't get in the way.

Note, I'll be using outboard preamps, so I'm pretty much only concerned with A/D quality.

[hargerst]

Most of the medium priced A/D's are pretty decent, as long as you don't push them too hard; keep the peaks at around -6 dBFS and you should be fine.

[Guest]

Thanks dude. That's what I figured.

I run stuff in a bit low anyway. At 24 bits, there's no need to squeeze the most out of my headroom.

Most of these things use AKM converters anyway, so it's really the stuff around the periphery that varies.

[PookyNMR]

ben_allison wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 09:30

Thanks dude. That's what I figured. I run stuff in a bit low anyway. At 24 bits, there's no need to squeeze the most out of my headroom. Most of these things use AKM converters anyway, so it's really the stuff around the periphery that varies.

The chip used in the converter is really a small part of the equation.  There are so many other parts of the circut that are in play that have huge effects on the sound quality.

The pre-sonus will be a small step up from the M-audio.  Why save a bit and take a bigger step up?

[Guest]

What would be a bigger step up?

I need the unit to have a headphone out, as well as Main Outs with a volume control (I to avoid having a mixer JUST to conrol the level going to my monitors and give me headphone monitoring).

[Guest]

Could you be refering to an RME Fireface?

[Teddy G.]

You don't "need" to have the headphone out! It's just "more convenient" for YOU! Good sound is not, neccessarily, about convenience - get your priorities straight. If, for the best sound, you "need" a seperate "phones jack", so be it!

And, yes, "little steps" are generally worthless. If you've got something that works well and it cost you 500, going to something for 600 should be NO "step up" - if it is, you paid too much for your 500 dollar widget.

Investigate something in a Lynx, for a real step up, then buy a "controller box" for the phones and speakers, or even a mixer, like a little Mackie. No, the monitoring that runs through the Mackie will not be perfect, but, the signal will be pristine as it needs to be and you can always get the Grace "headphone/speaker box", later, if you like.

TG

[Guest]

Ted, thanks for your input! And, it is more convenient. You're right. Good sound had nothing to do with convenience. On this we agree. My logic is this: I can spend $X on a Lynx sound card, more on monitors, and then *drum roll* plug them all into a Mackie!

Just seems like a pretty big compromise considering the entire chain. I'm hoping to find a solution that eliminates me needing the middle man of a mixer. Not purely for convenience, but because the mixer I could afford, it would seem, could do more damage than an entirely satisfactory A/D, D/A.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the signal going from a Lynx through a Mackie to ____ monitors would still end up being of a superior quality?

And yes, I understand the captured audio, with something like a Lynx, will be of a higher quality than with an RME. But if what's coming out of the monitors is poor, because of some other variable introduced in the signal chain, it's next to irrelevant.

In that case, maybe you can help me find better controlling options then. All I need is:

- master volume/mute
- switching options between 2-3 pairs of monitors
- headphone out

I have outboard press, etc. So something like a "Big Knob" or "Central Station" would work, but again, I'm not sure how much of sacrifice I'll be making in fidelity.

Would a 1202-VLZ be a significant compromise?

Don't mistake me: an integrous signal chain is my goal. But looking at the options, I'm not entirely sure what the best course is.

Ideas?

[Fibes]

ben_allison wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 10:04

In that case, maybe you can help me find better controlling options then. All I need is: - master volume/mute - switching options between 2-3 pairs of monitors - headphone out Ideas?

I'm in the same boat center section wise.

The Coleman unit looks good. The Dangerous unit looks good too.

Or you could look into the NHT attenuator and use something else for monitor switching.

[spoon]

ben_allison wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 09:04

I have outboard press, etc. So something like a "Big Knob" or "Central Station" would work, but again, I'm not sure how much of sacrifice I'll be making in fidelity. Would a 1202-VLZ be a significant compromise?

Some people report the BigKnob dramatically effects the sound others say the opposite...guess you will have to determine that yourself...

The Central Station has a digitally controlled passisive audio path according to their liturature...food for thought.

The 1202 is regarded as the cleanest of the VLZ mixer series.  This will more than likely be fine for your needs (phones and monitor master).  

If you get the lynx ADDA you will be fine.  I would not sweat the small stuff.

The cost-benefit for this is really all over the place.  When do you stop upgrading?  It can really get out of hand quickly.  If you do this in a money making capacity then you stop when the next upgrade will not seriously increase your income.

If it is a hobby...dunno where/when to stop.  I am a hobbyist and I lost control two years and $40,000 ago.

As an aside, the Delta1010 is a very good unit and though the Lynx will sound better, the price difference may better be used elsewhere.  The presonus is probably not worth the (horizontal) move unless it really helps your particular workflow.

Good luck,
spoon

[Ralf Kleemann]

For the sake of completion, value-for-money, and most of all quality, make sure you check out the Metric Halo products, http://www.mhlabs.com/ Very good stuff, and hard if not impossible to beat at the price. Beware that the product line is Mac-only.

Best regards,
Ralf

[Guest]

I'm on PC, so that's a no go for me.

Yeah, I'm thinking $400-600 could easily be better spent in monitor upgrades or mics.

[smorgdonkey]

hargerst wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 07:49

Most of the medium priced A/D's are pretty decent, as long as you don't push them too hard; keep the peaks at around -6 dBFS and you should be fine.

This thread is of interest to me because I intend on getting a new DAW in the near future. However, regarding my current set-up, how would I determine how 'hot' my signals are coming in? I don't have meters on my mixer which I run into an M-Audio 24/96. I watch the meters in Cubase but my own logic tells me that has nothing to do with the level that the signal is coming in but just relative to where my levels are set on the 'virtual mixer'.
Does that make sense?
Is there a way that I could set the M-Audio 24/96 to have a 'hard cap' on -6 dB?