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Author Topic: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?  (Read 13033 times)

danickstr

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whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« on: September 26, 2005, 11:55:43 AM »

I like some of the Beatles stuff, but none of them are what I would consider virtuosos on their instruments and J and P as vocalists are "nice" but not moving me to great heights with technique, timbre and tone.  I gladly admit their songs are insightful, and the recordings are executed with very defined stylistic beginnings and endings.

they seem like a group that knew their limitations well and worked within them.  very insightful on the lyrics, admittedly, and kinda like a group of grown up Oliver Twists came into the room and politely gave a performance.

it seems to me the real genius of the bunch was George Martin, who kiind of goes as an unsung hero except in groups of people who actually know how much he contributed by being a sounding board, glue, guiding light and fatherly influence.  

I always wondered just how close he was to the group? Inquiring minds want to know.
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max cooper

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2005, 01:39:00 PM »

I can't speak for how close GM was to the Four, but as to the first question, I used to listen to the Beatles in passing when I was a kid, but I was much more into funk, soul, R&B (mostly older) etc.  I was familiar with most of their material (it's hard not to be!) but I couldn't tell who sang what, etc.  Also, when I was 13 (in '79) I thought the Stones were the coolest thing in the world.  I preferred their 'darker' sound to the Beatles, and besides, if you recall what the Fab Four were doing in the late '70's, Lennon especially didn't appeal to me (I wanted to ROCK!)  'McCartney II' wasn't much better, in my mind.

But dangit! They got to me in the end.  I took a circuitous route to becoming a Beatles fan, but it eventually happened.  I found them by way of the 'Plastic Ono Band' LP as I was discovering the VU, Richard Hell, etc. I dug the stripped down aesthetic of 'Plastic',  and then the songs started to dig into me.  I discovered that, although I could appreciate Lennon in general, his post-meeting-Yoko material can sound absolutely on fire...  (Yer Blues, She's So (Heavy) etc.)  

But I think there's a lot to do with how you come to be familiar with something.  Now the Beatles have an air of 'ultimateness' (is that a word?) to them to me, but only since I've been able to see and hear them in a different way.

I even like 'McCartney II' now.  Not as much as 'McCartney', but more than I used to!



If you're not totally into the Beatles for the songs and the singing, perhaps Bernard Purdie's drumming can be your 'touchstone'. Surprised
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Barry Hufker

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2005, 05:53:22 PM »

I would say the Beatles are "everyone's darling" for several reasons.

1) They came at a time when the U.S. was in mourning for President Kennedy and we needed a lift.
2) They were different than what came before.  You have to remember that Elvis had peaked, Pat Boone was singing Little Richard tunes and the country was white-bread complacent.
3) They looked different.  They sounded different.  They were smart-asses (watch John Lennon "snort" his bottle of Coca-Cola [Coke] in a scene in "A Hard Day's Night."
4) It was an era when the press was still everybody's lapdog.
5) They brought in new fashion (which lasts to this day)
6) They brought in new language.
7) They made the way for other English acts coming to the U.S.
8 They were safe -- "I want to hold your hand."  "She loves you."  and other personal songs that weren't explicitly about sex.
9). Their style was based in rock, blues, rhythm n' blues, country, folk, traditional... So their musical appeal was broad.
10) Just when you thought you'd figured them out, they would change -- familiar pop to serious ballad (Yesterday -- when they were accepted as serious song-writers) -- to avant-garde (Tomorrow Never Knows, sitar music) -- to spiritualism -- to back to their roots.  They were never satisfied being one thing, playing one thing.  They stayed fresh.
11. Fine tunes, well-played with inventive harmonies.
12. They were rock and roll pioneers
13. They were recording pioneers
14. They were a class act
15. And they became everything any of us playing music wanted to be.
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danickstr

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2005, 12:33:22 AM »

Well said accounts of the fab 4.  I cannot disagree with any points and I do feel that they are shining examples of what a rock star should be, by reality's standards.  So many other great artists took a shameful, ego-centric road, and this is something that I think for the most part they avoided as a whole.

it's just harder for white boys to impress me as musical talent, I guess.  Ironic, since I am a white musician.
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Barry Hufker

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2005, 12:49:56 AM »

Nick,

What "white boy musicians" don't want really to be "black" when they perform? Smile

To show how "white boy" The Beatles were when they started, "Love Me Do" was their attempt at blues!

Barry
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Jerry Tubb

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2005, 04:09:02 AM »

The Beatles also introduced more complex harmonic progressions to the pop rock world. Songs with many chords instead of just 3 or 4. Just think of the "minor four" chord for example.  Sure these harmonies hard been around in Classical and Jazz styles, but not so much in pop. And they sang harmonies in those complex chordal structures.

The fact that they wrote, recorded, and sang their own songs was a fairly new approach in pop music.

The guys had very strong distinctive personalities, that combined in a synergetic way, that surpassed their individual talents.

New Instrumentation was another innovation, string sections, sitar & tablas, mellotron, layers of electric and acoustic guitars, horn sections and soloists, etc... hadn't really been exploited in such a fresh way before.

Then there's the first real use of extreme stereo panning... listen to Revolver for instance.

The lyrics & subject material were breaking down barriers, alluding to sex & drugs in a fairly open way.

The haircuts, fashions, costumes, new cultural & social ideas, the music video, extensive music films, the list goes on and on and on and on, etc...... and we've just touched on the tip of the iceberg...

I remember saving my money as a teen, just so I could buy the new Beatles record on the day it came out.

These guys and the machine behind them broke the mold of the past, and set a new standard that is still in place 40 years later.

Your question is like asking "what's the big deal with Ford or Mercedes" in the automotive world... they defined the concept.
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George_

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2005, 04:14:41 AM »

I don't like the beatles.. I hate their haircut.. I think their music suck;)

I am ignorant... a proud ignorant anti-beatle
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George Necola

maxdimario

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2005, 07:52:32 AM »

The beatles were actually fairly simple music to begin with, compared to some other pop hits other than rock, rockabilly, country.

I'm talking about the ballads and more complicated songs that were sung by nat king cole, or bing crosby etc.

they were the first 'serious' musicians to look and play like young guys. I mean they were young and they wrote their own HITS, so many of them.

as they progressed McCartney and Lennon learned more chords, and incorporated those into the latter stuff.

they were a product of what is arguably the biggest boom in mankind's history, and burned out roughly at the same time that the boom slowed down..

they were what kids wanted to be.
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Barry Hufker

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2005, 10:52:43 AM »

Every semester in the Multitrack Recording class I teach, I make the class choose and produce a Beatles song.  They have to play the exact parts.  They have to have the same vocals and harmonies.  They have to have essentially the same production sound.

Let me tell you this is no easy task even for a "simple" Beatles song.  The students are the same age as The Beatles were when the discs were made.  All of a sudden, there's a light that goes on.

I've had students say "The Beatles suck."  They don't say that after having to do this assignment.  They realize exactly how hard it is to make a "simple song" enjoyable, let alone a hit.

Barry
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George_

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2005, 04:59:19 PM »

hei barry,

I don't wanna get yu pissed.. I don't say: they are just *no-talented-guys*.. I just say, I don't like their music.. I even don't like lots of music, and there is also a lot witch I like..

this is not about: getting the best out of crap..it's just my own opinion and taste..

honestly
George
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George Necola

danickstr

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2005, 09:43:30 PM »

well i have to say that I understand a bit more than I did before these posts.  Thanks for sharing.  And i do admit to having color envy when it comes time to reach down and sing with soul, but I do my best.

I guess they did OK for a bunch of crackers.

And I am glad to hear that you are a teacher Barry.  I am sure you do a great job with budding minds. Cool
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maxdimario

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2005, 09:08:37 AM »

Quote:

I've had students say "The Beatles suck." They don't say that after having to do this assignment. They realize exactly how hard it is to make a "simple song" enjoyable, let alone a hit.



The beatles used to get away with just guitar and vocals.

people don't realize just how much of a groove they had, or what excellent singers they were.

just because they don't do  acrobatics around each note doesn't mean they aren't amazing singers and entertainers.

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George_

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2005, 09:39:02 AM »

hei but it's my own choice to yell: I DONT LIKE THEM!!Wink
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George Necola

Kurt Foster

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2005, 04:16:09 PM »

There was a lot of hype surrounding the arrival of The Beatles in the USA ... I remember billboards with "Watch for THE BEATLES" all over the SF Bay Area.

My friends and I all were asking each other "whutz th' Beatles Question "

I remember when I first heard them, it was a sound that I had never heard before ... it was so different! Even Capitol records had passed on them at first, hence the Vee Jay release of the first record (With The Beatles). Capitol told George Martin "you guys just don't know how to make American records" ... a year later they were scrambling to duplicate the same sound ...

The only other time I can recall being struck with the originality of a sound on records was the first Led Zeppelin record ... when I first heard "Zep I" I was freaked out .... I had never heard anything like that.

I think that's why both those bands have lived on in music history for better or for worse ... They were innovators and pioneers, both in recording technique and in musical approach.

I have almost every Beatle record made .. in vinyl and on CD ... both USA Capitol and European Pharliphone. the quality of the Europiain pressing is far superior ... both in terms of the vinyl quality and the source masters used to cut the records. The European versions were all mastered at Abbey Road from 1st Generation masters while the Capitol records were cut from 2nd and 3rd generation safety masters.

Up to Sgt. Pepper, you really haven't heard The Beatles recordings as they were intended to sound unless you have heard the Parliphone records ...
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Daniel Farris

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Re: whaat makes the Beatles everyone's darling?
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2005, 09:15:14 PM »

In my experience, not liking the Beatles is a symptom, not the disease itself.

Everyone I've ever known personally who didn't like the Beatles ultimately turned out to have intolerably bad taste in music, saying things like, "Now Dream Theater and Mr. Bungle... THAT's good music!"

DF
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