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[josh]

No, they're not all the same.

PM1000 had discrete (almost)Class A topology.

PM2000 (successor, obviously, to the PM1000) had op amps, but is still reported to sound good, nearly like a PM1000.  I suspect it's the transformers.  I'm not that much of a believer in discrete-class-A-is-the-only-way ...  I've heard some great sounding op amps!

And everything goes down hill from there.  How far down hill and the slope of the hill, I dunno for sure.

[Scott Helmke (Scodiddly)]

I don't think I'd turn my nose up at some PM-4000 modules.  That's still a viable console for national-level live shows.

[trebor_zaid]

What other modules are good? I am looking for some outboards also, and some lunch boxed modules would suit me most bueno! Any modules that came out in the 80's that would be worth hunting down and boxing?

[Frob]

what about the predecessors to the pm1000 like the pm700? any good?

[bounce]

My understanding is that only the PM1000 and PM2000 have the Neve-esque preamp gain block design.

mckay

[hargerst]

Frob wrote on Wed, 28 September 2005 19:00

what about the predecessors to the pm1000 like the pm700? any good?

The PM1000 was the first console Yamaha introduced.

[Frob]

ive seen a pm700 does any one know about the <1000 series?

[josh]

I don't know how anyone would call PM-1000 or PM-2000 "Neve-esque", at least not in terms of tone, or circuit design.  In fact the PM-1000 and PM-2000 have so little in common it's hard to even talk about them being similar except maybe for subjective tone.

The PM-1000 is rather different than Neve designs in a number of ways.  The PM-2000 is a whole lot less similar to classic Neve stuff (1272, 1073) than is the dissimilar PM-1000.

I think the reason people called this "Japa-Neve" is because it was a high-quality Japanese console, not necessarily to equate it to a Neve other than to identify that it is of similar sound quality, while not similar in sound character.  Most of the color of the PM-1000 likely comes from the transformers, and most of what people hear similar from PM1000, PM2000 and Neve console channels is the characteristic transformer-preamp sound.  IMHO anyway.  I bet I could take a TL-072 op amp and breadboard it into a databook reference design for 60dB of variable gain with nothing more exotic than standard polyester capacitors, tack an old Yamaha PM-series transformer on the input and output and most AEs would instantly compare it with a Neve.  If I added phantom power, an EQ stage, a clip LED and a VU meter, put it in an expensive extruded aluminum rack chassis, I bet I could sell them for $1k/each.  Of course if I was really smart and enterprising, I would make a pair of these with no controls whatsoever, only an output transformer, and a bunch of resistors on the front end connected to 24 input jacks and call it a "summing bus" and sell it for $5K.

FWIW I don't think PM-700 was a modular console.  That's a 4-channel behemoth if I recall correctly.  Well I can't exactly recall, I wasn't born by the time it was out.  But I have read the schematic.  4-channel or 8-channel, but fixed one way or the other, not modular like PM-1000 or PM-2000.  My guess is it has transformers in and out and discrete transistor topology like a PM-1000, but you can easily verify this by downloading the schematics from Yamaha and evaluate it yourself.  If it has transformers then it'd be worth getting just to steal the iron.

[NelsonL]

Frob wrote on Wed, 28 September 2005 17:00

what about the predecessors to the pm1000 like the pm700? any good?

I'm not a tech, far from it, but here;s what I've learned in researching this subject over the last few years.

The PM 700 and 430 have the same design-- just more channels on the 700 I believe, could be wrong. The 430 is not a modular design-- can't speak towards the 700 in that regard.

The preamps aren't discrete and would supposedly benefit from an IC upgrade, but they won't be drop in replacements so it's a little tricky. There are smallish input transformers on each pre-- it's a 8x2 design so there are 2 decent looking output transformers  

The line amps in the 430 and 700 are discrete. These things are full of Yamaha's potted opamps-- I've read that they're API 2520 compatible which means they're would be a lot of replacement options.

As for how it sounds, I have a 430 that has potential-- it's been a while but I remember it sounding kind of muddy--       definitely not sterile though. Right now it needs to be cleaned up and recapped and I don't know if I'll ever get around to it.

Hope that's useful

Liam

[luckybastard]

you guys talking about these pm1000's have gotten me really curious. how hard would it be to put a power supply on a few modules and put it in a lunchbox. the only experience in electrical stuff i have is with building my tube hamptone from a kit. i do have people around who could do it though. if i had modules, what else would i need to complete a project like this...

[Phil]

luckybastard wrote on Thu, 29 September 2005 13:05

if i had modules, what else would i need to complete a project like this...

Money and transformers.

I've always wondered -- what do you guys who lunchbox the PM-1000 modules do with the fader assembly you saw off? Also the wood frame? They seem like good parts, and it seems a shame to simply toss them.

[Scott Helmke (Scodiddly)]

It's not especially hard - I'm doing a pair right now for a local guy.  You mainly need a power supply (44v) and a box.  Output transformers are nice, but not strictly necessary.

You can get the manual (including schematics) from Yamaha with a bit of searching.  And the modules are pretty easy to work on, since just about every interesting signal goes to the pot or whatever with actual wire, instead of the pots being integrated into the circuit board.  So it's easy to grab outputs, swap the fader for one of the echo-send pots, etc.