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Author Topic: CD Player vs audio interface  (Read 2683 times)

Leo Goler

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CD Player vs audio interface
« on: September 01, 2005, 07:07:59 PM »

Hello!

I often hear from pro audio folks and some others that in order to get closer to sound quality of a good hifi cd player one would have to throw in a lot of cash for DAC. Is this so in your opinion? And how much would that be, I don't mean pricing but rather where do you see the line? Do you usually a/b in your hosts or prefer it on cd players? I'm confused and don't have to many cd players for a blind test. I'm asking because I just can't figure out myself what is the nature of such drastic difference in price vs performance if it exists.

Thanx
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Loco

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Re: CD Player vs audio interface
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2005, 10:13:42 AM »

The difference is in the analog side of the converters. That's where the money is, and the consumer CD players don't have much of this area covered. That's why it's better anyway to hook your CD player to your receiver via digital so the converters of your receiver do a better job.

As for A/B... it's good to do it both via digital and with the built-in converters so you could get a glimpse of what the final cconsumer would get.
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Carlos "El Loco" Bedoya

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David Satz

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Re: CD Player vs audio interface
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2005, 10:25:37 AM »

Leo, CD players have been such common consumer items for so many years now that we tend to forget how much goes on inside them and how diverse the parts of a player are. There are servo motors and laser optics in addition to digital ICs. And then the results of those things get fed to analog circuitry which we expect to have an extremely wide dynamic range, insignificant distortion, and no audible interference from any of the other parts of the player. That's a tall order.

There is a basic audiophile principle which says that "separates are always better than combined units." That principle is based mainly on assumptions about the economics of design and production, and also on the fact that instead of just buying a Pioneer or Kenwood receiver off the shelf, it's more fun to obsess about a separate preamp AND separate tuner AND separate power amp! That approach keeps the hobby going whether it is technically justified or not.

In the case of CD "transports" and outboard DACs versus integrated "CD players" one big problem is that the S/P-DIF interface used for connecting the two separate units is designed backwards: it feeds the clock signal from the transport to the DAC, instead of putting a stable clock generator in the DAC and letting that control the transport. So now all outboard DACs have to deal with jitter issues that are ultimately caused by Sony and Philips' desire to let a single cable be used for this type of connection.

The one advantage which a separate DAC unquestionably does give you is isolation from whatever junk may be leaking into the power supply rails of the analog circuitry from the spindle motor and the optical carriage of the player. In some players, that can apparently be audible to some people under at least some circumstances.

There is no reason that an "integrated" player couldn't take care of this problem even in the middle price range. But even now, years after these issues became public knowledge, apparently some of the highest-priced players with the fanciest-sounding features (oxygen-free this, fully discrete that, ultraheavyweight the other thing, etc.) continue to have some audible remnant of this problem, so that price isn't necessarily an indicator of what to expect.
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Jim Williams

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Re: CD Player vs audio interface
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2005, 03:44:53 PM »

It's more than just a player and an outboard dac. I found back in the early 90's that my high end Philips CD player had a poor performing digital output. With top quality cables and stand alone BurrBrown and Crytal demo board dacs, I was missing top end details and low end depth. This was heard when another player was brought in to compare. The solution was to re-design the digital outputs. This player picked off the s/pdif from the digital filter. It was not capable of driving either a cable or pulse transformer. I built up a multi stage buffer with quality coupling caps and the problem was solved.

Keep in mind not all cd player s/pdif outputs are created equal. The newer generation DVD players all have better digital outputs since they need to carry multiple channels so two channel s/pdif isn't a problem with them.
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Jim Williams
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maxdimario

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Re: CD Player vs audio interface
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2005, 04:59:11 PM »

I removed the analog section from my sony 1 bit dac cd player and it sounds great.

And it seems to have a lower output impedance than I Imagined..

My amp's input is 100Kohm, BTW.

the spurious HF hash is partly attenuated by the cable etc.

I still have to build a passive LPF with a choke or something, but it sounds a lot more direct and lively anyway!

Do not try this at home kids.
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