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[smj]

Hi all,

I'm preparing to record and mix my second album in the fall and send it off for mastering.  I have a question...

In my preliminary mixes, when all the tracks are combined, I'm in the red on the 2 mix meter on my digital console (Tascam TM-D4000.)  None of the individual parts clip however.  Should I :

a) Try and isolate the track(s) causing it and attenuate them
b) Lower the overall level of the 2 mix
c) Lower the level of all the tracks proportionately and keep the master fader cranked
d) none of the above.

I know this is a dumb question...but it seems like there are a lot of ways to fix the problem and I wondered what you guys thought.  Thank you muchly.

Sean M-J

[Bob Boyd]

I would guess that the board would have internal headroom but I don't know that for sure.  If so, just bring down the master fader.

[jazzius]

How often is it in the red?.........every kick and snare?......3 times in the whole the track?.....if the latter, check on headphones and if you can't hear any distortion (listen very carefully), leave as is.......just my 2cc.

[Ged Leitch]

Simplest method would be to link all the faders then pull down in 1db increments till there is no longer clipping or you could pull down the master fader if your not using it as a reference.

[bblackwood]

Jazzius got it, imo.

Pulling down the faders can be tricky if any processing is post fader, but if you're clipping all the time, it's likely to sound bad after mastering (generally speaking)...

[Bob Olhsson]

I'd certainly check the manual or ask Tascam. In most cases, reducing the master fader of a digital mixer would be best bet. Dropping the individual faders has this way of never quite sounding the same.

You really don't want ANY digital clipping unless you are hearing exactly what the final listener will hear with no additional signal processing, lossy coding, broadcast processing or mastering. While you might not be able to hear the clipping now, it can really screech out what your final product sounds like because of the funny math it introduces.

[Ronny]

smj wrote on Thu, 25 August 2005 15:27

Hi all, I'm preparing to record and mix my second album in the fall and send it off for mastering.  I have a question... In my preliminary mixes, when all the tracks are combined, I'm in the red on the 2 mix meter on my digital console (Tascam TM-D4000.)  None of the individual parts clip however.  Should I : a) Try and isolate the track(s) causing it and attenuate them b) Lower the overall level of the 2 mix c) Lower the level of all the tracks proportionately and keep the master fader cranked d) none of the above. I know this is a dumb question...but it seems like there are a lot of ways to fix the problem and I wondered what you guys thought.  Thank you muchly. Sean M-J

If it's clipping at the master section and you aren't seeing it, you may have your meters set to input instead of post processing. Most digital console summing busses aren't like DAW programs that can clip when channels are summed, the 4000 is an old board but I'm pretty sure it doesn't increase buss count/increase gain by the typical +6dB that you'll see in some DAW's. You can group all of the faders and pull them down the amount of dB that you are over, or pull the master fader down, either way will do the same thing. You certainly don't want the signal to clip the master section output meter, so if it was me and I didn't want to mess with the mix anymore or didn't have groups for the faders, I'd just attenuate the master fader until the stereo output meter shows highest peak below -0dBFs. The main concern is the master section output as it's the last gain structure going to the DAC's.  

Not worrying about audible clipping until the DAC with channel and buss levels, but as an aside, you may get better processing if you attenuate any processor that is going to be boosted, by the amount of the boost. For example if your input signal is -1dB and you put a +3dB boost at say 125Hz, your eq processor output is going to be +2dB. You'll have to get that back down somewhere before the DAC anyway. Use the eq attenuator to drop the signal by -3dB, the input signal will be processed below clipping in the eq and will output your -1dB signal at equity -1dB. Sonically will there be a difference, no not in most cases but keeping the signal at unity after it's brought up at the first digital gain structure, through all processing and on to the master section, is the cleanest way that I've found to mix on a digi console.

[smj]

Thanks for all the responses guys.  The clipping only happens a few times....usually if theres a big accent somewhere in the song and the whole band does it simultaneously.

It seems (after reading the posts) the easiest thing to do is pull the master fader down.

One final question.  When I'm recording the 2mix (on my Tascam MX2424) should I keep the bus levels on the mixer at 0db?  

The mastering house will ultimately be working off of this final mix as I will be giving them the hard drive, from which they can extract the files.  I think they're going to play it on PT and master to tape.  Thanks again.

Sean M-J

[Ronny]

smj wrote on Fri, 26 August 2005 15:20

Thanks for all the responses guys.  The clipping only happens a few times....usually if theres a big accent somewhere in the song and the whole band does it simultaneously. It seems (after reading the posts) the easiest thing to do is pull the master fader down. One final question.  When I'm recording the 2mix (on my Tascam MX2424) should I keep the bus levels on the mixer at 0db?   The mastering house will ultimately be working off of this final mix as I will be giving them the hard drive, from which they can extract the files.  I think they're going to play it on PT and master to tape.  Thanks again. Sean M-J

You don't have to peak right at 0dB, just don't let it go over. Doesn't matter to me as long as it's not clipping, because I'm going to vary levels as I proceess, but you may want to ask your ME what peak level he prefers.

[Ben F]

If it is only happening a couple of times in your mix, it also could be a random click or pop on one of the audio tracks.

The standard thing to do is lower the master fader. If a couple of tracks are clipping occasionally and causing the average level of the mix to be very low (as you have to attenuate the master), I sometimes put a peak limiter on the track that is causing the problem- it's generally inaudible.

As Ronny said, many people mix with pre fader metering on. Especially in ProTools.