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[dcollins]

Ronny wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 14:21

What would you call the effect? Pan phenonemon or something.

Law is just another word for "curve" when talking pan-pots.

Quote:

I realize that there are different ways of addressing the effect and what you are calling panning laws, but aren't they all  relative to the one physical law that deals with increased gain when doubling the source output?

There are many factors, and just because two panners are 3dB down in the centre, does not imply any sort of standard throughout the whole range.

This shouldn't discourage anyone from panning, just that you can't really compare two tracks panned at "10 and 2" without knowing that they are same level.....

Analog or Digital.

DC

[OTR-jkl]

dongle wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 20:57

Also does anyone know how to record realtime playback within Samplitude, Thanks

You can do it from track to track, but I've never gotten it to work right on my DAW.

The way I do it is to open 2 instances of Samp - use 1 for playback & the other for capture. Set the output of Samp1 (playback) to your soundcard dig out and the input of Samp2 (capture) to your soundcard dig in (you'll have to patch a loop). Set the output of Samp2 to your soundcard analog out. Turn Live Input on in Samp2, and hit Play. When you play Samp1, you will hear what Samp1 is playing (there will likely be a little latency). When you're ready to record, you can either hit Record in Samp2 or turn Mix-To-File on and hit Play and it will print directly to HD. Using this method, FX can be added on either instance. All FX on Samp1 will be printed. FX on Samp2 will only be printed if you use Mix-To-File.

[dongle]

Thanks guys. Great resonses, love this site. Its so good to get decent answers.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

FYI there were issues with the first batches of 002 rack and mixer. These manifested themselves in a variety of fun ways, and I would not be at all surprised if your audio quality issue was hardware related, even though it seems to be a software issue.

I have been using an LE/ 002 rack system recently with G5 and it sounds great. Bounce to disk in real time sounds perfect to me. 24 bit, no dither. I can't tell the difference between 32 bit float and 24 bit in PT. I certainly can in Cubase however!

[brett]

Tom Ged Leitch Hero Member Offline Posts: 1057 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) brett wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 14:42 Tom http://bitheadmastering.co.uk/ "...But I don't wanna be a pirate!" Chris Cavell Full Member Offline Posts: 202 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) Quote: Just read the pdf to double check, sorry man Pro tools LE is not 32 bit float it's 24 bit. I don't know about the pdf...but plugin based bit meters say otherwise. Chris Cavell CavellStudios Mastering Ged Leitch Hero Member Offline Posts: 1057 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) Chris Cavell wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 17:24 Quote: Just read the pdf to double check, sorry man Pro tools LE is not 32 bit float it's 24 bit. I don't know about the pdf...but plugin based bit meters say otherwise. Do you mean the plugins are 32bit? or are you reffering to P.tools LE DAW bit depth? http://bitheadmastering.co.uk/ "...But I don't wanna be a pirate!" Chris Cavell Full Member Offline Posts: 202 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) The DAW's bit depth.  Of course, you have to modify the signal in some way to register the float values on a plugin based bit-mater...a simple 0.1dB change in level on the mixer is enough to do that though...or throw in any plugin before the bit meter. (The plugin's bit depth is dependent upon the individual design...but all RTAS plugs that I know of are *at least* 32 bit.) Chris Cavell CavellStudios Mastering Ged Leitch Hero Member Offline Posts: 1057 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) Chris Cavell wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 17:41 The DAW's bit depth.  Of course, you have to modify the signal in some way to register the float values on a plugin based bit-mater...a simple 0.1dB change in level on the mixer is enough to do that though...or throw in any plugin before the bit meter. (The plugin's bit depth is dependent upon the individual design...but all RTAS plugs that I know of are *at least* 32 bit.) heres a link for you to check out every other one i've checked says the same... http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/d2/page/shop/news_story/a/news _id/e/14/a/r/e/google also checked out the specs on the actual digidesign site, still got 24 bit processing not 32 bit float. http://bitheadmastering.co.uk/ "...But I don't wanna be a pirate!" Ged Leitch Hero Member Offline Posts: 1057 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) With the LE sytems, be it 001, 002 or M-box they are all set to record at 16 to 24 bits, sure all types of plugs operate at different depths but the LE depth is 24. Most waves stuff dithers internally down to 24 bits on LE as do others.If you send a link to show me an page stating LE does operate at 32 bit float then cool it's just I've yet to find one. http://bitheadmastering.co.uk/ "...But I don't wanna be a pirate!" TotalSonic Hero Member Offline Posts: 3728 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) I think it's important when discussing a DAW's internal processing math to realize that often the bit depth of the temporary internal processing math can be different than the bit depth of the figure that is returned by such calculations.  From my understanding - in general current apps allow a plugin to do its internal processing math at its full level but then either dither or truncate the returned number to a lower level before sending it to the next process.  So a plugin with 64bit processing would indeed use that full math level no matter what app it was loaded in.  I believe in many cases whether the result is truncated or dithered depends on the plugin also.   So the question would be whether PT LE is sending either 24bit integer or 32bit floating point returned figures to the next process.   Best regards, Steve Berson http://www.totalsonicmastering.com http://www.invertmusic.org http://www.warlockasylum.info Ged Leitch Hero Member Offline Posts: 1057 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) TotalSonic wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 18:00 I think it's important when discussing a DAW's internal processing math to realize that often the bit depth of the temporary internal processing math can be different than the bit depth of the figure that is returned by such calculations.  From my understanding - in general current apps allow a plugin to do its internal processing math at its full level but then either dither or truncate the returned number to a lower level before sending it to the next process.  So a plugin with 64bit processing would indeed use that full math level no matter what app it was loaded in.  I believe in many cases whether the result is truncated or dithered depends on the plugin also.   So the question would be whether PT LE is sending either 24bit integer or 32bit floating point returned figures to the next process.   Best regards, Steve Berson I can't seem to find any documentation on this, every page on the web i've tried so far say 24 bits and does'nt refer to whether the LE systems are sending 32 float in any process. http://bitheadmastering.co.uk/ "...But I don't wanna be a pirate!" Ged Leitch Hero Member Offline Posts: 1057 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) But hey this orig thread was from dongle wanting to know why samp or tools shows up differences with the same wav with the same settings on the processing and I'd rather not hijack his thread to start a debate on bit depths... sorry dongle http://bitheadmastering.co.uk/ "...But I don't wanna be a pirate!" Bob Olhsson Hero Member Offline Posts: 3968 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) There's a simple test for floating point operation. Take a 16 bit source Turn the volume up 60 dB past clipping Turn the resulting signal back down 60 dB Measure the number of bits in the output. If it's floating point, there will only be 16 bits and the signals will null. Pro Tools le passes this test. It only reads and writes 24 bit audio files and not 32 float so it's a good idea to dither the output to your files or output. Digidesign just doesn't go out of their way to point out the advantages of le over TDM. Bob's workroom (615) 562-4346 http://www.hyperback.com http://www.thewombforums.com http://georgetownmasters.com Print Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up « previous next » R/E/P Community > R/E/P > R/E/P Archives > Brad Blackwood > Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)   SMF 2.0.19 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines | Terms and Policies XHTML RSS WAP2 Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc. Page created in 0.039 seconds with 19 queries.

[Ged Leitch]

brett wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 14:42

Tom http://bitheadmastering.co.uk/ "...But I don't wanna be a pirate!" Chris Cavell Full Member Offline Posts: 202 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) Quote: Just read the pdf to double check, sorry man Pro tools LE is not 32 bit float it's 24 bit. I don't know about the pdf...but plugin based bit meters say otherwise. Chris Cavell CavellStudios Mastering Ged Leitch Hero Member Offline Posts: 1057 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) Chris Cavell wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 17:24 Quote: Just read the pdf to double check, sorry man Pro tools LE is not 32 bit float it's 24 bit. I don't know about the pdf...but plugin based bit meters say otherwise. Do you mean the plugins are 32bit? or are you reffering to P.tools LE DAW bit depth? http://bitheadmastering.co.uk/ "...But I don't wanna be a pirate!" Chris Cavell Full Member Offline Posts: 202 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) The DAW's bit depth.  Of course, you have to modify the signal in some way to register the float values on a plugin based bit-mater...a simple 0.1dB change in level on the mixer is enough to do that though...or throw in any plugin before the bit meter. (The plugin's bit depth is dependent upon the individual design...but all RTAS plugs that I know of are *at least* 32 bit.) Chris Cavell CavellStudios Mastering Ged Leitch Hero Member Offline Posts: 1057 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) Chris Cavell wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 17:41 The DAW's bit depth.  Of course, you have to modify the signal in some way to register the float values on a plugin based bit-mater...a simple 0.1dB change in level on the mixer is enough to do that though...or throw in any plugin before the bit meter. (The plugin's bit depth is dependent upon the individual design...but all RTAS plugs that I know of are *at least* 32 bit.) heres a link for you to check out every other one i've checked says the same... http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/d2/page/shop/news_story/a/news _id/e/14/a/r/e/google also checked out the specs on the actual digidesign site, still got 24 bit processing not 32 bit float. http://bitheadmastering.co.uk/ "...But I don't wanna be a pirate!" Ged Leitch Hero Member Offline Posts: 1057 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) With the LE sytems, be it 001, 002 or M-box they are all set to record at 16 to 24 bits, sure all types of plugs operate at different depths but the LE depth is 24. Most waves stuff dithers internally down to 24 bits on LE as do others.If you send a link to show me an page stating LE does operate at 32 bit float then cool it's just I've yet to find one. http://bitheadmastering.co.uk/ "...But I don't wanna be a pirate!" TotalSonic Hero Member Offline Posts: 3728 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) I think it's important when discussing a DAW's internal processing math to realize that often the bit depth of the temporary internal processing math can be different than the bit depth of the figure that is returned by such calculations.  From my understanding - in general current apps allow a plugin to do its internal processing math at its full level but then either dither or truncate the returned number to a lower level before sending it to the next process.  So a plugin with 64bit processing would indeed use that full math level no matter what app it was loaded in.  I believe in many cases whether the result is truncated or dithered depends on the plugin also.   So the question would be whether PT LE is sending either 24bit integer or 32bit floating point returned figures to the next process.   Best regards, Steve Berson http://www.totalsonicmastering.com http://www.invertmusic.org http://www.warlockasylum.info Ged Leitch Hero Member Offline Posts: 1057 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) TotalSonic wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 18:00 I think it's important when discussing a DAW's internal processing math to realize that often the bit depth of the temporary internal processing math can be different than the bit depth of the figure that is returned by such calculations.  From my understanding - in general current apps allow a plugin to do its internal processing math at its full level but then either dither or truncate the returned number to a lower level before sending it to the next process.  So a plugin with 64bit processing would indeed use that full math level no matter what app it was loaded in.  I believe in many cases whether the result is truncated or dithered depends on the plugin also.   So the question would be whether PT LE is sending either 24bit integer or 32bit floating point returned figures to the next process.   Best regards, Steve Berson I can't seem to find any documentation on this, every page on the web i've tried so far say 24 bits and does'nt refer to whether the LE systems are sending 32 float in any process. http://bitheadmastering.co.uk/ "...But I don't wanna be a pirate!" Ged Leitch Hero Member Offline Posts: 1057 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) But hey this orig thread was from dongle wanting to know why samp or tools shows up differences with the same wav with the same settings on the processing and I'd rather not hijack his thread to start a debate on bit depths... sorry dongle http://bitheadmastering.co.uk/ "...But I don't wanna be a pirate!" Bob Olhsson Hero Member Offline Posts: 3968 Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp) There's a simple test for floating point operation. Take a 16 bit source Turn the volume up 60 dB past clipping Turn the resulting signal back down 60 dB Measure the number of bits in the output. If it's floating point, there will only be 16 bits and the signals will null. Pro Tools le passes this test. It only reads and writes 24 bit audio files and not 32 float so it's a good idea to dither the output to your files or output. Digidesign just doesn't go out of their way to point out the advantages of le over TDM. Bob's workroom (615) 562-4346 http://www.hyperback.com http://www.thewombforums.com http://georgetownmasters.com Print Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up « previous next » R/E/P Community > R/E/P > R/E/P Archives > Brad Blackwood > Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)   SMF 2.0.19 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines | Terms and Policies XHTML RSS WAP2 Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc. Page created in 0.039 seconds with 19 queries.

[Chris Cavell]

Quote:

Just read the pdf to double check, sorry man Pro tools LE is not 32 bit float it's 24 bit.

I don't know about the pdf...but plugin based bit meters say otherwise.

[Ged Leitch]

Chris Cavell wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 17:24

Quote: Just read the pdf to double check, sorry man Pro tools LE is not 32 bit float it's 24 bit. I don't know about the pdf...but plugin based bit meters say otherwise.

Do you mean the plugins are 32bit? or are you reffering to P.tools LE DAW bit depth?

[Chris Cavell]

The DAW's bit depth.  Of course, you have to modify the signal in some way to register the float values on a plugin based bit-mater...a simple 0.1dB change in level on the mixer is enough to do that though...or throw in any plugin before the bit meter.

(The plugin's bit depth is dependent upon the individual design...but all RTAS plugs that I know of are *at least* 32 bit.)

[Ged Leitch]

Chris Cavell wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 17:41

The DAW's bit depth.  Of course, you have to modify the signal in some way to register the float values on a plugin based bit-mater...a simple 0.1dB change in level on the mixer is enough to do that though...or throw in any plugin before the bit meter. (The plugin's bit depth is dependent upon the individual design...but all RTAS plugs that I know of are *at least* 32 bit.)

heres a link for you to check out every other one i've checked says the same...
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/d2/page/shop/news_story/a/news _id/e/14/a/r/e/google

also checked out the specs on the actual digidesign site, still got 24 bit processing not 32 bit float.

[Ged Leitch]

With the LE sytems, be it 001, 002 or M-box they are all set to record at 16 to 24 bits, sure all types of plugs operate at different depths but the LE depth is 24.
Most waves stuff dithers internally down to 24 bits on LE as do others.If you send a link to show me an page stating LE does operate at 32 bit float then cool it's just I've yet to find one.

[TotalSonic]

I think it's important when discussing a DAW's internal processing math to realize that often the bit depth of the temporary internal processing math can be different than the bit depth of the figure that is returned by such calculations.  From my understanding - in general current apps allow a plugin to do its internal processing math at its full level but then either dither or truncate the returned number to a lower level before sending it to the next process.  So a plugin with 64bit processing would indeed use that full math level no matter what app it was loaded in.  I believe in many cases whether the result is truncated or dithered depends on the plugin also.   So the question would be whether PT LE is sending either 24bit integer or 32bit floating point returned figures to the next process.  

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Ged Leitch]

TotalSonic wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 18:00

I think it's important when discussing a DAW's internal processing math to realize that often the bit depth of the temporary internal processing math can be different than the bit depth of the figure that is returned by such calculations.  From my understanding - in general current apps allow a plugin to do its internal processing math at its full level but then either dither or truncate the returned number to a lower level before sending it to the next process.  So a plugin with 64bit processing would indeed use that full math level no matter what app it was loaded in.  I believe in many cases whether the result is truncated or dithered depends on the plugin also.   So the question would be whether PT LE is sending either 24bit integer or 32bit floating point returned figures to the next process.   Best regards, Steve Berson

I can't seem to find any documentation on this, every page on the web i've tried so far say 24 bits and does'nt refer to whether the LE systems are sending 32 float in any process.

[Ged Leitch]

But hey this orig thread was from dongle wanting to know why samp or tools shows up differences with the same wav with the same settings on the processing and I'd rather not hijack his thread to start a debate on bit depths...
sorry dongle

[Bob Olhsson]

There's a simple test for floating point operation.

Take a 16 bit source
Turn the volume up 60 dB past clipping
Turn the resulting signal back down 60 dB
Measure the number of bits in the output.

If it's floating point, there will only be 16 bits and the signals will null.

Pro Tools le passes this test. It only reads and writes 24 bit audio files and not 32 float so it's a good idea to dither the output to your files or output.

Digidesign just doesn't go out of their way to point out the advantages of le over TDM.