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Author Topic: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)  (Read 7321 times)

dongle

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2005, 10:08:23 am »

Hi bob no i havnt tried that ill give it a go, does Samplitude apply dither automatically, or does it apply the dither for reduction from 32 float to 24 bit, also, are you using samplitude for mixing or mastering, or both. Samplitude feels more stable in realtime playback, it just feels like its processing the plugs better, but that could be just crap aswell, what do you think bob.
Thanks
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Chris Cavell

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2005, 10:12:34 am »

Possibly the result of different pan laws through the summing buss?
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OTR-jkl

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2005, 10:23:47 am »

dongle wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 09:08

does Samplitude apply dither automatically,

No. Dithering options in Samp are found by clicking on the Output assignment button on the Master buss.
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J Lowes ยท OTR Mastering
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MT Groove

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2005, 10:28:38 am »

Chris Cavell wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 15:12

Possibly the result of different pan laws through the summing buss?


That would be my guess as well.  
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dongle

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2005, 10:55:24 am »

Thanks for all your help guys. Much appreciated to receive replies.
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Ronny

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2005, 12:01:04 pm »



Usually when differences like this show up when they aren't supposed to, it's attributable to pilot error. We all make mistakes and most commonly the routing matrix selected.


WRT, panning law. Panning law is panning law, there aren't multiple types of panning law, however consoles deal with panning law differently. For example the older SSL's allowed you to vary the panning dB's, to accommodate the distance of speakers to sweetspot, for example nearfields -3dB and farfields -4.5dB. Typically though with most consoles it's - 3dB, from hard pan to center. Some consoles allow disabling the adjustment for pan law and don't attenuate the channel when going from hard to center, but anytime that pan law enters the equation of making your two examples sound different than it's going to be a + or - 3dB differene. That's easy to measure with an analytical too, but your ears should hear the gain difference immediately if pan law "adjustment" is a factor.  
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Bob Olhsson

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2005, 03:22:59 pm »

I'd call Samplitude semi-automatic in that you can disable dither. It defaults to on when appropriate. Pro Tools LE defaults to no dither. As far as I'm concerned, the Samplitude folks got it right because thinking about dither is sort of like thinking about tape bias. One OUGHT to not need to think about it beyond simply making sure it's adjusted optimally for the output format.

dcollins

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2005, 04:38:08 pm »

Ronny wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 09:01


WRT, panning law. Panning law is panning law, there aren't multiple types of panning law, however consoles deal with panning law differently.



Of course there are actually many different panning laws!

Constant power, constant voltage, and somwhere-in between.

http://www.wavefront.mcmail.com/pan.htm

Is probably the best.

IIRC Neve's just slugged linear pots to make a panner, no opamps.

DC

Ronny

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2005, 05:21:06 pm »

dcollins wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 16:38

Ronny wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 09:01


WRT, panning law. Panning law is panning law, there aren't multiple types of panning law, however consoles deal with panning law differently.



Of course there are actually many different panning laws!

Constant power, constant voltage, and somwhere-in between.

http://www.wavefront.mcmail.com/pan.htm

Is probably the best.

IIRC Neve's just slugged linear pots to make a panner, no opamps.

DC


What would you call the effect? Pan phenonemon or something. I realize that there are different ways of addressing the effect and what you are calling panning laws, but aren't they all  relative to the one physical law that deals with increased gain when doubling the source output? I'm talking about the phenomenon and you are talking about variables to address the phenomenon.
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mdbeh

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2005, 05:41:41 pm »

Ronny wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 16:21

What would you call the effect? Pan phenonemon or something. I realize that there are different ways of addressing the effect and what you are calling panning laws, but aren't they all  relative to the one physical law that deals with increased gain when doubling the source output? I'm talking about the phenomenon and you are talking about variables to address the phenomenon.



Calling them panning laws is standard, and it's a really basic area:

 http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?sectioncode=41&storycode= 7672

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Brian Harper
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Ronny

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2005, 05:57:10 pm »

mdbeh wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 17:41

Ronny wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 16:21

What would you call the effect? Pan phenonemon or something. I realize that there are different ways of addressing the effect and what you are calling panning laws, but aren't they all  relative to the one physical law that deals with increased gain when doubling the source output? I'm talking about the phenomenon and you are talking about variables to address the phenomenon.



Calling them panning laws is standard, and it's a really basic area:

  http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?sectioncode=41&storycode= 7672




I've already read the eqmag description. I should rephrase to say phenomenon for lack of a better word.
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dongle

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2005, 06:53:49 pm »

Hi guys, with regards to these panning laws, i read the article it said some Daw give you the option of changing the panning "law".
Can this be done in protools. Also If i have a lot of panning automation during a mix, could this result in different bounces. Also it seems best to me to minimise the amount of panning one should do in a mix.
Cheers
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tweakman

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2005, 08:41:42 pm »

First time post! after months of lurking . . Embarassed
Great forum Brad!.

"Bouncing" in ProTools LE "colors" the sound and not in a good way. (a more narrow stereo field, looser bottom end and a little harsher on the top end.)Also if you're editing a stereo mix and have crossfades,  don't "consolidate" the track because that too degrades the sound. ("consolidate" in PT HD seems better).
It's better to go real time via spdif to Samplitude/wavelab/etc on another machine or to an Alesis Masterlink. But If you only have one machine..
Try this:
- Create a new seesion in PTs with two stereo tracks.
(with the mix's original sample rate and bit depth)

- Don't create a "Master Fader" just the 2 stereo tracks.

- On you're Mix track "insert" your plugins

- Route the output of your mix track to a Bus, say 1 and 2

- Set next stereo track's input to Bus 1 and 2 and it's output to hardware 1 and 2 and hit (alt+K)(option on mac) so you can monitor in play while being rec enabled.

- tweak your sound or recall the saved presets of the plugins you used in samplitude.. and when you're ready, hit record.

You will have your new files in the session's audio files folder in stereo split. (Don't process them to make them stereo interleaved)

Import these files "as is" to samplitude in stereo split along with you're samplitude bounces and compare.. they should sound closer. Saying exactly the same would be hard because each program's sound engine sounds different.

whew!, well I hope this works better.. al least it does for me . . .

cheers
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dongle

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2005, 09:35:39 pm »

Took me a while to get it but that sounds like a good idea, am glad you have also noticed the dif with btd, Which option sounds best, summing all the outputs of a mix via bus, s/pdif out of 002 back into itself and record that, or record from 002 real time s/dif into m-box on another machine into samplitude realtime.
Thanks guys
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dongle

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Re: Please Explain (PT vs. Samp)
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2005, 09:57:10 pm »

Also does anyone know how to record realtime playback within Samplitude, Thanks
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