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Author Topic: 251 and a 47  (Read 4364 times)

brandondrury

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251 and a 47
« on: August 21, 2005, 10:00:54 pm »

Hello all,

I'll be expanding my mic collection before too long and I was just wondering if I had a 251 and a U47 how much ground that would cover?  Could I reasonably expect to deal with nearly any vocalist with these two mics?

I know nothing, but from what I gathered, these tend to be on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to LDCs.  I could be wrong.  

Brandon

J.J. Blair

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2005, 10:54:06 pm »

I think you are on the right track.  If you are going vintage, the thing is getting a 251 that actually works (if you can even afford one).  If you are going for something new, I know people who just adore the ELUX251.  After doing the test with various recreations for my article, I must say that I would rather have a good real U47 than a clone.  They can be had for much cheaper than an ELA M251, ot C12, too.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

vernier

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2005, 11:08:47 pm »

They're just two mics that get auditioned along with half a dozen others for vocals ..they don't especially cover any extra territory over other mics in their class. You'll need $30,000 or more for the two.
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J.J. Blair

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2005, 12:59:27 am »

Vern, hardly!  You can get into a very nice vintage U47 for around $5,000-$6,000 if you are patient.  Just don't buy a Blue "rebuild", as it does not have a VF14 tube, and that is 1/3 of the sound of a good U47.
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

vernier

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2005, 01:54:20 am »

The 251's price could easily make up the difference ..one I had on loan was $25,000 ..as it turned out, the owner didn't want to sell it anyway. And funny thing, I was comparing mics one day, had the elam and 149 out, and with a couple tweaks of EQP1, was able to get the 149 to sound like the elam! ..what a discovery, so I tried that on other mics but was only able to mimic a couple more, UM92 and Coles. Some that couldn't be copied was 67, VM1, and 47.
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J.J. Blair

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2005, 05:24:49 am »

Nobody in their right mind should pay $25,000 for a 251.  That's obscene.  But then again, nobody should pay $30,000 for a 670!   LOL.
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Chris Cavell

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2005, 08:15:59 am »

In my experience, used C24's are often 1)easier to find and 2) much cheaper than 2 C12's.
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vernier

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2005, 12:24:35 pm »

A boring SUV is $30,000 or more (and won't last) ..I'll take the Fairchild!
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Brett Mixter Rader

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2005, 01:24:28 pm »

vernier wrote on Mon, 22 August 2005 17:24

A boring SUV is $30,000 or more (and won't last) ..I'll take the Fairchild!


You must be single

vernier

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2005, 02:04:46 pm »

Nope ...and I don't have a Fairchild. Hey, so thats the problem ..hmmm ...got any suggestions?
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Fletcher

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2005, 07:51:54 am »

The thing about Fairchild's is that they are now just a status symbol as it's just a wee bit easier to find the holy grail than a set of 4 matched 6386 tubes... which means that the units will never really sound the way they should... as for 251's... some of the ones you find are absolute pure magic, the majority of the ones you find are near garbage... but they'll fetch $15-20k just like a good one without too much of a struggle.

There are some absolutely brilliant mics being made these days... I'm madly in love with the Klaus Heyne Edition mic and the Horch RM2J... the Microtech Gefell UM-900 and UM-75 have been amazing additions to my microphone collection... while things like their 92.1 and M-990 are also nothing to be sneezed at.

Some vintage mics are indeed the balls... but unless you have a parts supply and an annual maintenance budget you might as well leave them for the rockstar/rich dude crowd that doesn't have to think as much about money are the rest of us mere mortals.

Of course this is just one asshole's opinion... chances are YMMV.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

J.J. Blair

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2005, 12:30:40 pm »

I've recently been criticized for my digressions, so excuse the fuck out of me for this next post, but...

I recently scored an actual NOS spare CK12 on eBay (Klaus verified it for me).  I managed to buy-it-now it before Toni Fishman saw it, I guess.  I have been considering having Tele NA install it into one of their 251s.  (I think this might depend on if I buy some ADAMs or not.)

As far as maintaining vintage mics, get somebody to do a full servicing on the thing and then don't worry about it.  It will appreciate in value anyway, and you'll get the money back that you might not get back on a C12VR or something new.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

brandondrury

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2005, 11:05:05 pm »

$30k for a mic?  That's a little out of my budget.

I was talking about going with the relatively cheaper Gefell, Lawson, whatever mics.  

Quote:

They're just two mics that get auditioned along with half a dozen others for vocals ..they don't especially cover any extra territory over other mics in their class


Maybe this is what I should have asked.  What are the half dozen or so mics that pretty much cover the vocal gammut?

Brandon

Oldfart

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2005, 06:18:32 am »

Strange we don't hear much about the Korby's .... or is it?

Oldfart
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Denis Paquette

rush909

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Re: 251 and a 47
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2005, 09:56:09 am »

Oldfart wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 11:18

Strange we don't hear much about the Korby's .... or is it?

Oldfart


Here is my little story about my Korby 251.  I originally bought the KAT system with one capsule, the U47.  I immediately fell in love with it, but I did not find it ideal for female vocalists, and wanted to add another capsule for those applications.  Since I did not have the ability to try the other 3 capsules, I took Nadine Korby's recommendation and got the 251 head, with the promise that I would be able to replace it if I was not happy with it.  I then used it for a few months, but I just could not find a good use for it.   I tried it on 3 different vocalists (male/female) and was never happy with the sound.   I have never used a real 251, so I had no comparison, but I know what I wanted and the Kat 251 was just not it.   It just seemed to lack any defined MIDS and even though the highs were nice, it just seemed like it did not have enough "guts", and sounded pretty plastic.  Again it might be really close to a real 251, but I would not know...  

So I contacted Korby and stated my case, and they told me that the 251 Capsule is their "best seller" and that there must be something wrong with mine and asked me to return it to them for inspection...   Korby took a look at my capsule and found that mine indeed did not have enough "bottom" compared to the current way they were making their 251 Capsules.   Mine was one of the first they made and it appears that they are now turning theirs closer to a "golden" unit from Europe somewhere (don't ask me any more details, I never asked Smile..  They offered to "re-tune" my 251 and send it to me free of charge.   They assured me that it will sound pretty different than the current way my capsule sounded.  

In the meantime, I had listened to some mic Shootout that was posted on this forum some time ago and heard all the different mics including all the Korby KAT capsules.   I found that the 251 in the shootout sounded a bit nicer than mine, but close enough to convince me that it was not the female vocal sound I was looking for.   Nadine has assured me at the time that I got the 251 that she was going to do "whatever it takes" to make sure that I was happy with my purchase.  From listening to the mic shootout, I opted instead to have my 251 replaced with a full bodied U67 Capsule (not the 67M modified) and within a few days, the people at Korby had created my capsule and shipped it to me.  I just had a chance to quickly do a test of it, but within a few minuted I was THERE... that elusive vocal sound I have been looking for was finally mine.  I now have 2 capsules that provide great vocal magic, and I think the C12 capsule will be next on my list!... I would like to thanks everyone at korby (including Tracy, Nadine and ADAM) for being the company that they are and for treating me with "great care"...

r.
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