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Author Topic: Production or 'Spec' Deals?  (Read 7943 times)

Fibes

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2005, 08:31:39 am »

We have a Bar exam here Jules...

Anywho, the state of publishing is different in Europe too but i'm not an expert on it so i'm not gonna talk outta my ass as usual.

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Fibes
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j.hall

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2005, 08:34:26 am »

Jules wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 06:52



Also in the USA - you leave law school 'a lawyer'



totally not true.

most law students in the US get jobs at law firms and all their work has to be signed off on by a bar certified member of the firm.

the law students are not lawyers until they actually pass the bar exam, and technically, they can not practice law on their own until they have passed the bar.

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JJ being more in line with this forum's theme????????

what is the world coming to??????????
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lord

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2005, 08:45:58 am »

It's news to me that there are indie projects in which 10% or more of the recording budget is legal.

Personally, I think that's nuts. You could borrow that money from a bank, pay it back over two years, and still come out ahead--owning your own masters with no strings attached. Of course, musicians who are unable to sucessfully borrow even $7000 will continue to be shark food.

Jules, I'm sure your deal works for you. There are a lot of different worlds here.
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Jules

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2005, 09:57:38 am »

j.hall wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 13:34

Jules wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 06:52



Also in the USA - you leave law school 'a lawyer'



totally not true.

most law students in the US get jobs at law firms and all their work has to be signed off on by a bar certified member of the firm.

the law students are not lawyers until they actually pass the bar exam, and technically, they can not practice law on their own until they have passed the bar.

_____________________

JJ being more in line with this forum's theme????????

what is the world coming to??????????



Apologies to you and Fibes I have correccted my post to be more accurate and thanks for pointing this out.

in the USA - if you leave law school & pass the Bar exam you are allowed to practice law.

In the UK - you have to to go to college, pass exams AND THEN train by working at a law firm for 2 years before you are allowed to practice law.

Jules

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2005, 10:16:49 am »

lord wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 13:45

You could borrow that money from a bank, pay it back over two years, and still come out ahead--owning your own masters with no strings attached. Of course, musicians who are unable to sucessfully borrow even $7000 will continue to be shark food.


If you can tell me how to point bands who are in their early 20's in the direction of people that will lend them $7,000 on a 2 year pay back deal for a recording, I would be very gratefull!. Who are these people?

If the band get a major lable record deal & publishing deal and traded 20% publishing & 3 points on 3 of their tunes.... 1) what makes them shark food? 2) Where is the HUGE rip off?

I don't think any of you against this idea will be able to explain fully. I predict you will only be able to foam at the mouth and ramble about it "stinking" (a big record deal & big publishing deal?) but not really answer my question - give it a go

Many bands need a good recording to get the music industry behind them. That therefore can have a high value.

How high?

It's up to each band..

Realistically we find few bands we belive in enough to offer this too. And most turn it down, which we respectfully regard as 'fair enough'.

BTW in my deals I give the band the masters. I have earn from a percentage of them, but the bands own them.













lord

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2005, 10:59:14 am »

Jules wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 10:16

If you can tell me how to point bands who are in their early 20's in the direction of people that will lend them $7,000 on a 2 year pay back deal for a recording, I would be very gratefull!. Who are these people?

If the band get a major lable record deal ....


I can find you 4 kids who can pay for a record out of their pocket way before I can find you 4 kids with a prayer of a major label contract.

I'm not foaming. I think that if this partnership that you have with these acts is well defined and agreeable to them, then that's great. Make it work.

Just recognize that lots of people choose to do business without chasing that elusive "major label contract."  (And without lawyers if possible!)

The more primitive the business relationship, the more transparent the process is to all parties.
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2005, 11:05:42 am »

Curve Dominant wrote on Mon, 22 August 2005 20:32

J.J. Blair wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 03:17

Eric, this is on the subject.  What kind of deal do you want to make?  It's entirely relevant, especially if you are looking for a 'way of life.'


I'm not "looking for a 'way of life." This IS my life. It has nothing to do with "deals." The deals are there but that's not what's relevant.

What's relevant is leaving a positive history. Being a part of something positive. "Spec" deals are all about doing what you believe in, to me anyway.

The artists I'm working with are doing what THEY believe in, and I'm working with them because I believe in THEM and what they're doing.

This is Philly, JJ. It's not like LA. It's a totally different culture here, and in London where Jules works as well. You cannot implant your LA mindset on what we're doing, it doesn't work. You cannot understand it from your LA mindset, until you get out of LA and get involved with a grass roots music scene. Really involved, where you put yourself completely out on a limb for artists who strike you at your soul.


Eric, before you lecture me about getting out of LA, you should know that I'm not from here.  And back when you only knew how to record with your VHS machine, I was going further out on limbs than you have ever gone.  I could pay off my mortgage with the money I've lost for music I believed in.  And I'm not exagerating.

And since you are an ASCAP member, you should know the value of publishing.  It's the same there as it is in LA.  Would you honestly give somebody a portion of your intellecual property?
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

J.J. Blair

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2005, 11:19:25 am »

Jules, I'm happy to hear that you have term limits to your agreement.  It remains to be seen what those are, though.  A typical US publishing deal is for seven years.  Thank you for sharing your legal document.  I shall peruse it later.

I must say though, just as there should be a floor to our value as producer, which keeps getting lowered by people with DAWs in their bedroom, there should be a reasonable ceiling.  I like Fibes idea, where you recoup from publishing, and then the publishing reverts in favor of points.  That is something I could live with and still look myself in the mirror.  

As to me digressing ... admit it: YOU FUCKING LOVE IT!  (Except for Eric.)  I keep shit lively.
Very Happy
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

NelsonL

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2005, 11:30:35 am »

Let's not get into regional stereotypes, I mean, Philly is awfully close/similar to South Jersey.... didn't Curve say something about finding the next Bon Jovi?

Maybe JJ can find the next Missing Persons and you guys can have them fight to death in a cage match-- I'm hoping for a tie.

By the way, there's nothing wrong with being from LA-- although I doubt that's what JJ meant.
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Fibes

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2005, 12:03:46 pm »

rattleyour wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 11:30

By the way, there's nothing wrong with being from LA--


As long as you don't still live there. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! I've gone mad.

I had my worst client last night. 15 years and last night was the top of the buttocks.
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Fibes
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NelsonL

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2005, 12:12:06 pm »

Fibes wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 09:03

rattleyour wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 11:30

By the way, there's nothing wrong with being from LA--


As long as you don't still live there. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! I've gone mad.

I had my worst client last night. 15 years and last night was the top of the buttocks.



Wow, sounds like you'll have some tales to tell when you're finished healing.

I've never actually lived in LA, but 3/5's of my band do-- and I always have a great time there. On the other hand, one of my oldest pals (we're both from the SF bay area)spent several month's there making a record this year and was completely miserable-- so I guess it's all relative.
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2005, 12:53:00 pm »

rattleyour wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 08:30


Maybe JJ can find the next Missing Persons and you guys can have them fight to death in a cage match-- I'm hoping for a tie.


Dude, Missing Persons kicks Bon Jovi's ass any day of the week.  As  Triumph the Insult Comic Dog says: "If you have never heard Bon Jovi, try to imagine Brude Springsteen coming out of my ass."

BTW, do you want to know why nobody walks in LA?  Because you can park everywhere ... unlike San Francisco!  LOL.  (I've lived there, too.)

And next time you are here making a record, I guarantee you will have more fun if you make it with me.  Ha!

Uh oh.  Did I just 'hijack the thread' again?
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Curve Dominant

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2005, 12:55:31 pm »

Fibes wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 17:03

rattleyour wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 11:30

By the way, there's nothing wrong with being from LA--


As long as you don't still live there. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!


LMFAO!!!

rankus

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2005, 01:00:53 pm »

Great thread!

I can see Jules' point that with a possibility of a larger reward, (publishing) he can afford to invest time after the recording is completed... and this will add value to his contribution, thereby making it worth more to the band...

It seams like a win/win to me.... Think of the money a band could spend on consultants and management, agents, promoters, that Jules is supplying on spec...

Thank you for your candidness Jules.  I am in the middle of trying to decide (how involved) to get behind a band and your outlook has given me another angle to pursue...
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Curve Dominant

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Re: Production or 'Spec' Deals?
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2005, 01:02:02 pm »

J.J. Blair wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 16:05

Eric, before you lecture me about getting out of LA, you should know that I'm not from here.  And back when you only knew how to record with your VHS machine, I was going further out on limbs than you have ever gone.


A VHS machine? You know, that's probably the ONLY thing I didn't learn how to record on. Gotta try that some time.

Quote:

And since you are an ASCAP member, you should know the value of publishing.  It's the same there as it is in LA.  Would you honestly give somebody a portion of your intellecual property?


Yes I would, and I'll tell you exactly why:

Because it is much more lucrative to own 50% of a song that becomes a hit, than to own 100% of a song that will never be heard by anyone.

And that last bit, my dear humble friend, really sums up the crux of this whole issue.

Now, I'm going to try to dig a VHS machine out of my closet, and record something with it. Ciao ciao!
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