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Author Topic: Arm and wrist problems with long session editing and mastering  (Read 15695 times)

dcollins

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Re: Arm and wrist problems with long session editing and mastering
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2005, 11:51:59 PM »

Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 19 August 2005 20:26



http://monster-island.org/tinashumor/humor/mousebal.html


http://www.snopes.com/humor/business/mouse.htm

Guarenteed the to break the ice at parties?

DC

lucey

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Re: Arm and wrist problems with long session editing and mastering
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2005, 10:38:46 AM »

Ronny wrote on Fri, 19 August 2005 00:28


Brian, my wife died of cancer not long after I took her to a cancer clinic in Mexico, run by Americans that couldn't get the treatment approved in the US. 3 licensed doctors told her that it would be a waste of time and that she needed to follow her oconologists recommendations and get proper treatment.


Could she have done both options simultaneously?  

Ronny my first love died a painful death to pancreatic cancer at 35 while following the doctors recommendations and not adding in the psychotherapy and nutritional supplements I know are needed to have a chance.     I've also seen cancer patients and drug addicts cured to remission with psychotherapy alone. (Some of them quite famous and some who were deemed unhelpable by major MDs).  Others did chemo and their primary stresses were relieved, so together it stopped (my step dad for one).

Quote:

 While it's true that "some" doctors treat people like lemmings and just want their dough, there are many, many doctors that are into it to help people. Your statements about doctors are too generalized


Michelle ran a doctors office for years, and I know many doctors.  They are honestly trained to act like know-it-alls and to see 35-40 per day in 15 minute windows (when they could be learning abobut Body Work.)   They must also learn 5000 symptoms, ailments and drug treatments to graduate.  They are in bed with the Pharmaceuticals.   Drug Rep lunches are weekly, and fancy dinners are monthly.   99% of MDs ignore the warnings in the PDR (Physicians Desk Reference) and over prescribe.  They are too busy in school to learn anything outside the box in most cases.  So trust them?  No.

They know nothing about the cause of cancer either.  It's a repression illness, psychological at root and related to how family systems express emotion and are socialized to acceptable emotional release.  The physical manifestations become a passed down trait just as the behaviours that make cancer more likely are passed down.  Then it becomes a physical part of us, but it begins in repression.

And body pain? It's about misuse.  MDs know nothing of the bodys physical workings as a moving thing, it's outside of their training.  A psychical therapist OTOH is going to give therapy, not identify or heal the misuse issue.  That requires intelligent use and a body worker who knows the joints, muscles and bones in question.   Amazingly to you, I know these better than 95% of MDs, thus the request for photos.

And emotional blockages?  These require a wise person and an open minded patient.  Again ... been there, done that too, on both sides.

I mean really, did you click the links I offered or just get upset from your past and start typing away?



Back to the topic:

Quote:


And although I would try changing the ergonomics in Tom's case first, as he'll be doing that naturally before long anyway,


This is 100% misinformation.  Physical habits are not see able or breakable on our own.  It's too subtle and too easy to repeat any action (that does not kill us.)

Ever tried to quit smoking?  Gum or candy helps but it's hard.  Habits are tough when they are easy to spot ... misuse is a SUBTLE bad habit that is impossible to work on alone in most cases.


Quote:

 I would still see someone that is specialized in these matters and American Medical Association approved,


The AMA is a crock for this and MDs are NOT specialized in body mechanics.  Sorry but in new pain cases like this and many advanced cases, they're no help.

You admittedly know nothing about body work, you have only the pains of your experience, and I'm sorry for those.  But there are people with international experience in this field and I chose to post here from that angle after giving up on this board for just these types of condescending critiques.  

I responded to Tom as he was in real pain in an area I know well and have deep training nad experience in (did I mention that I have 40 degree scoliosis and back pain daily, and that my MD missed it even though the middle school saw it and sent me to him?)

I posted as an experienced body worker only to get more grief. Yikes.  I was going to offer to drive up to see him (2 hours north) but I thought a photo would be easier for me right now and if a dialogue ensued I could visit later to take care of it for sure.  A misuse injury is not brian surgery, to use the old phrase.


Quote:

TCS doesn't happen with everybody and many people do repetetive tasks that are worse than mousing or playing the guitar and never have any problems.


Nothing just "happens" to our bodies, it's all cause and effect, TMJ, even Cancer.




Quote:

I'm not familiar with Barbra or Alexander methods but I highly doubt that they know how to prevent TCS better than a physical therapist.


Well you're admittedly ignorant, and you have some baggage on the subject ... but lets admit that and stay right there.




Quote:

I don't know anyone that has gone to them and not to a doctor and was cured, so I'll take your word on that, but when you "automatically" advise someone that has a medical condition not to go to a doctor without someone qualified to examine the person, you are taking their health into your own hands.


What makes you think a MD is "qualified"?

And Tom's is not a "medical condition" at this point ... it's either misuse or an unconscious emotional energy blockage in the arm/wrist.



I'm confident "taking their health in my hands", yet only if they accept that help as many people have before.  I'm not some opinionated wacko brother.  I've been sought out and paid to do body work, marriage counselling, psychotherapy and many things that are far more serious that this!

I know what I'm doing or I wouldn't have bothered to post.  I cant express how rude and discouraging it was of you to assume otherwise and to chide as if you are some authority.   You OTOH are overreacting from your own painful experience, and again, I'm sorry to hear that.

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Brian Lucey
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johnnywiz

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Re: Arm and wrist problems with long session editing and mastering
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2005, 11:02:34 AM »

Sometimes it blows me away to read the lenghts people will go to in order to be "right" or feel justified.
We all get to read a thousand word OT post, when a simple 'let's move on' or 'PM me for details' would do.
Please take the personal stuff to PM's and stick to the topic.
pretty please?
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JohnnyWiz
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bblackwood

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Re: Arm and wrist problems with long session editing and mastering
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2005, 11:47:50 AM »

Indeed. Keep it on topic and use the PM function.
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Brad Blackwood
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lucey

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Re: Arm and wrist problems with long session editing and mastering
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2005, 12:47:26 PM »

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 10:47

Indeed. Keep it on topic and use the PM function.


The topic is:

Body Pain ... from Misuse or Medical Condition?  



I'm on topic.  Scolding my view was off topic and I'm responding to that lengthy off topic post Ronny made.  Yes responding was off topic, and I'm sorry if that was too much.

OTOH was a comment like "worst post ever" and dumping deep emotional baggage from other people's issues staying on topic?
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Brian Lucey
Magic Garden Mastering

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bblackwood

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Re: Arm and wrist problems with long session editing and mastering
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2005, 01:22:34 PM »

lucey wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 11:47

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 10:47

Indeed. Keep it on topic and use the PM function.


The topic is:

Body Pain ... from Misuse or Medical Condition?  

Yet everyone's input has been completely overshadowed by your argument with Ronny.

Quote:

I'm on topic.  Scolding my view was off topic and I'm responding to that lengthy off topic post Ronny made.  Yes responding was off topic, and I'm sorry if that was too much.

Actually, my post above was directed at both of you. It's not just about you, Brian.

This forum is a pleasure to hang at most of the time, but lately, a few folks have made it not-so-fun for me (and others). I don't like that, and have decided not to tolerate it anymore.

Now please, don't go away mad...
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Brad Blackwood
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And now, to take it back on topic...
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2005, 01:22:59 PM »

Thomas, have you tried anything yet? Any improvement?
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Brad Blackwood
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Jerry Tubb

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Re: Arm and wrist problems with long session editing and mastering
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2005, 01:31:10 PM »

johnnywiz wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 10:02

We all get to read a thousand word OT post


I exercise my power to choose, -not- to read the thousand word OT posts !  Very Happy
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bblackwood

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Re: Arm and wrist problems with long session editing and mastering
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2005, 03:29:44 PM »

Jerry Tubb wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 12:31

johnnywiz wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 10:02

We all get to read a thousand word OT post


I exercise my power to choose, -not- to read the thousand word OT posts !  Very Happy

No need to worry about it, Lucey won't be bothering us any more...
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Brad Blackwood
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Ronny

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Re: Arm and wrist problems with long session editing and mastering
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2005, 04:37:44 PM »

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 15:29

Jerry Tubb wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 12:31

johnnywiz wrote on Sat, 20 August 2005 10:02

We all get to read a thousand word OT post


I exercise my power to choose, -not- to read the thousand word OT posts !  Very Happy

No need to worry about it, Lucey won't be bothering us any more...



I know Lucey is a roman candle waiting to be lit and should have known that my post was going to set him off. It just struck me pretty hard and I didn't think ahead of where it would go, I only replied to him once, for that reason. I don't typically air my tragedies, but thought it was relevent to explain to him why I disagreed with his advice not to seek a real doctor. Anyway, I apologize to the folks that had to hear this and I thank the folks that have expressed their empathy and feel empathy for the two posters that described similiar tragedies.  

Back to the topic.

I use a zoom wheel mouse for hours sometimes and have never felt fatiqued or have felt any pain in my wrist. I contribute this to my chairs, I use the managers chairs that have height adjustment and high arm rests, I adjust the seat where my arm rests are level with my mouse pad, my arm remains rested on the arm rail from the wrist back and the heel of my palm rests on the mouse pad so that my whole arm is supported from elbow to the heel of my palm. I use my thumb and ring and pinky fingers to move the mouse forward and backward and my wrist to move the cursor left and right, without having to lift my wrist. The plam of my hand stays in one spot. Trying a trackball and just not being able to get comfortable with it, supporting the whole arm and wrist works real good for me with the old fashioned mouse.  
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jackthebear

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Re: Arm and wrist problems with long session editing and mastering
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2005, 05:02:32 PM »

I have found trackballs cumbersome in the past. Granted I have only tried a couple and it was maybe 3 years ago, so the technology may have improved.

The tablet idea does fascinate me and when I move into my new place I might investigate it further.

I still subscribe to taking regular short breaks.

Cheers,
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Tony "Jack the Bear" Mantz
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Dragomir

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Re: Arm and wrist problems with long session editing and mastering
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2005, 07:38:48 PM »

I'm no ME, but since this is related to medical issues related to studio work, I took the liberty to post here.
So, few month ago, I was working late to finish an album on time.
The last session took about 12 hours and I started feeling neck aches, so that eventually I couldn't keep my head in a comfortable position. After some time, I couldn't control my hands properly and my arms got benumbed. When I got home in the morning I was feeling pain in my arms. Since then I can't work more than 3 or 4 hours without my neck hurting, which is really annoying.
Take care of your health; don't push it too hard!!!
Best wishes,
Alex Dragomir
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Thomas W. Bethel

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Re: And now, to take it back on topic...
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2005, 03:10:18 PM »

Well I found a good ergo-metric mouse pad called a Ergo-Mat ( http://www.handstands.com/retail/computer/mousemat/ergomat.s html)and it seems to help a lot. I also got a Graphire 6X8 tablet (though I have not tried it in a real editing situation since I am still learning about it) but it too looks promising.

As to chairs I have one of the best it is a Steelcase and is called a Leap chair (http://www.steelcase.com/na/products.aspx?f=11852) and it has saved my back any number of times in some 13 hour marathon mastering sessions.

I also had a long talk with my client who was here when I injured my arm. He was here today for an editing session and it went well. It was 6.5 hours with a break for lunch and snacks and I actually got a bathroom break for a change. He is very intense and wants to get a lot done in a short amount of time. He keeps pushing for more and more edits and will not let me get one edit done before he is on to the next. So I told him that I could not continue to do his work if we were running marathons every time he came here. He is fairly wealthy so money is not a motivating factor for him but the need to get a lot done in a short amount of time seems to be his "thing" His wife made some delicious sandwiches and cookies for lunch so we did not have to send out or take time to get something from the local fast food outlets. He was much calmer today and things went very well. We actually accomplished in 5.5 hours what it took us 9 hours to do two weeks ago. No strain on my arm and I feel very good. I also gave him his own pair of earphones and a headphone box with his own volume control on it. The last couple of editing sessions have been at ear splitting levels as I think he is going deaf. He really appreciated the extra thoughtfulness about the headphones and wants to use them from now on.

One additional problem that we have yet to figure out is that he wants to sit next to me at the mastering console so he can see the monitors with all of his scores on a music stand so I am getting crunched into a corner which may have added to the arm and wrist problems.

I had a person who works in occupational heath come in and look at my studio to see if he could see anything really bad in my setup or my work habits. He was impressed with the setup and told me that the only thing that stood out was length of time I was "in session" and he told me that if possible I should limit sessions to 2 hours long with a 10 minute break to get up and move around and rest. That is what I did today with my client.

I plan to follow up with my family doctor and see if there is anything else she can suggest or if I need to go to a neurologist if the pain comes back.

Thanks for all the nice comments and concerns. This is a GREAT web board.

As always
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Jerry Tubb

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Re: And now, to take it back on topic...
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2005, 10:24:11 PM »

Thomas W. Bethel wrote on Sun, 21 August 2005 14:10

This is a GREAT web board.


Amen ! ... hats off to Brad and the PSW.
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dcollins

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Re: And now, to take it back on topic...
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2005, 10:35:17 PM »

Thomas W. Bethel wrote on Sun, 21 August 2005 12:10

It was 6.5 hours with a break for lunch and snacks and I actually got a bathroom break for a change.



For a change?

Uh, Tom, I'm well into whole client/service thing, but you must to learn to take some control of your sessions.  For your own sake. I don't care how good the cookies are.

Intense clients are very common, but you need to come up with some way to get them to chill-out and not use up all the oxygen in the room......

I think more than your arm will thank you.

DC
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