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Author Topic: recording snare and bass drum for "speed" metal  (Read 12335 times)

t(h)ik

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Re: recording snare and bass drum for "speed" metal
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2006, 03:04:07 am »

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Sat, 28 January 2006 01:10

craig wrote on Thu, 26 January 2006 06:13

Here's a neat trick with a de-esser that works well on kick drum in some situations. Using the HF band of a multi band comp will work too, and it may even be more useful than a de-esser if it gives you lots of control over the crossover points.

Alternatively, I've discovered that I can get all the "click" I want without EQ, by using a transient designer followed by an LA2A (plug-ins). It actually creates high frequencies out of nothing. Remember, time domain and frequency domain are two names for the same thing.

On one occasion, I was able to rescue a very badly recorded kick with tons of cymbal leakage. I band-passed it so that it was just a dull thump, and created an attack with the aformementioned technique.

When it comes to drum sound manipulation, Cubase/Nuendo is rather brilliant, because you can run "strip silence" on a kick or snare track, select all the hits at once, and apply Envelope, Normalize, complex Fade curves, or even varispeed to all the hits at once. Thus, I can manipulate the drum hits as if they're samples.

To reduce the hat leakage on the snare, I use a dynamic EQ technique. I run "strip silence," mult the track, lowpass the second track, and adjust the fade handles so that the first track fades into the second track on every hit. You need a linear-phase EQ and Nuendo-type editing to do this.

Alternatively, I might use an envelope follower with the kick or snare modulating itself. It creates a nice, clean sound with a good attack. Unfortunately, it exaggerates any inconsistencies in the drummer's hitting and you have to follow it with an L1.

So the upshot of all this is, I hate samples and I go to great lengths to avoid using them.


I've tried to use the trasient designer, it's great for tracking so the drummer has something to listen to but I didn't find anything that had me salivating.  It's not so technical with just two knobs that turn a thisaway and a thataway.

What about deessers?

I am flat on my ass right now but have some plug-ins.  Do you need a hardware unit?

Thank you

tik
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adamcal

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Re: recording snare and bass drum for "speed" metal
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2006, 07:11:23 am »

As you mentioned,  most of these type songs have 2 sections,  a slower bit and blast faster bits,  Ive never found any solution to making both of them work on one track.

I always split the tracks of kicks and snares, then gain eq compress whatever differently.

the faster kicks always need the tops and LESS bass,  the faster snares need to be louder, smaller, spikier.

As much as I love 2",  fast metal styles for me are worse on analog(well the drums anyway),  I need those spiky transients intact, cutting through the wall to wall carpet of guitars and bass. Transient designer spiking them even more!!!!

Its almost the opposite what we do for fat rock.  where as slipperman says its about the "creative destruction of transient information", but in speed metal both exist in the same song!!!!,  its up to us to get it all working and sounding coherent



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Fenris Wulf

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Re: recording snare and bass drum for "speed" metal
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2006, 05:19:21 pm »

sixtiksix wrote on Sun, 29 January 2006 08:04


I am flat on my ass right now but have some plug-ins.  Do you need a hardware unit?


For a transient designer, I use DigitalFishPhones Dominion. Nasty sounding but it does the job. For the envelope follower, I drag the mono kick or snare onto a stereo track and insert MDA Envelope. If I want a stereo envelope follower, for instance to emphasize the snare in the room mics, I use NDC Amplitude Imposer on a quad group. All freeware.  Surprised
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George_

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Re: recording snare and bass drum for "speed" metal
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2006, 07:29:19 am »

Do we have here the producer from the new devoloped satyricon members-Studio in norway?

http://www.morningstarrec.com/

I am talking to you Fenris Wulf Cool  Cool
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George Necola

Klokkern

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Re: recording snare and bass drum for "speed" metal
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2006, 11:24:39 am »

...Satyricon is currently in "the warehouse" in Vancouver mixing their new album. It was recorded in Puk studios denmark.... I guess that means they do sell lots of albums.... Puk is one of the most expensive studios in north europe, warehouse is not much cheaper, I expect...

....and yes, they use triggers (the d-drum brain and d-drum triggers), even if Frost is one of the absolute more powerful drummers from the scene....

larsK
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George_

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Re: recording snare and bass drum for "speed" metal
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2006, 03:00:07 pm »

klokkern.. who are you!! damned.. tell me Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil

thanx for the info!
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George Necola

Fenris Wulf

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Re: recording snare and bass drum for "speed" metal
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2006, 04:06:33 pm »

noGearslut wrote on Mon, 30 January 2006 12:29


I am talking to you Fenris Wulf Cool  Cool

I'm an American ... I got the name "Fenris" because of the way I eat a pizza.  Razz
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Adam P

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Re: recording snare and bass drum for "speed" metal
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2006, 08:24:34 pm »

Klokkern wrote on Mon, 30 January 2006 11:24

 I guess that means they do sell lots of albums....


When some guys I know toured with Satyricon they said all their singer did was bitch at people and say "back home I drive a BMW!" as if people were supposed to care.  So, I guess they sell enough records for him to buy a BMW.
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t(h)ik

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Re: recording snare and bass drum for "speed" metal
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2006, 04:38:18 am »

Adam P wrote on Tue, 31 January 2006 02:24

Klokkern wrote on Mon, 30 January 2006 11:24

 I guess that means they do sell lots of albums....


When some guys I know toured with Satyricon they said all their singer did was bitch at people and say "back home I drive a BMW!" as if people were supposed to care.  So, I guess they sell enough records for him to buy a BMW.



A singer bitching?

I don't believe it!  

That never happens...
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Klokkern

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Re: recording snare and bass drum for "speed" metal
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2006, 06:32:05 am »

well, satyr is famous for beeing a car nut....

By the way, the BMW is long since gone, he has been driving a porsche 911 Carrera which he bought new for the past year or so... (Cars is part of our common interest, I have owned both a BMW, two Alfas and a Maserati, but never really thought of it as something people should look up to me for, more as something I could talk to other people with an interest in cars about....)

before I go on, I can post part of the private message i sent to noGearslut after he asked who I was...

....I am just an Oslo based sound engineer who has worked as a live engineer since 1990 and who built a little home studio in 2003... Living in Oslo and being a former metalhead (I actually hardly ever listen to "real" metal anymore, and havent´t done so since.... 1990-ish) I have worked with a lot of the norwegian metal bands, among them a bit of monitor work at festivals for Satyricon.

I have also recorded 3 albums for Satyrs label Moonfog (2 x Darkthrone and Khold´s "Morke gravers kammer") 2 of them in my home studio, so in a way you could say that Satyr has helped finance me moving to a bigger studio in in rented facilities....

OK, back to THIS message again....

I have also heard stories of Satyr being a dickhead, full of himself etc etc etc, but until he proves the storytellers right by being an asshole to me, I chose not to join the people shoutintg about how lame he is etc. And having worked with him on lots of occations and screwed up on some, I honestly have to say that I have met more rock stars who would beat Satyr in the "be an asshole" competition than I can count. I screwed up BIG TIME during the first song Satyricon / Nocturno of Darkthrone played at Wacken, and he had about a 1000 reasons for being pissed of at me since this was the most important cue of the whole show, and since we went throught it thorougly before the show. He was clearly not satisfied, but he did have the chance of blaming it on me on national norwegian television who made a 30 minute documentary on the event. All he said was that "one of the guys working for us could probably have done a better job, but whats done is done...." (or something like that)

Before any of you think I am a friend of his defending him, I do not concider him a friend since I hardly ever see him in non work related situations.

However, I have to say that I have met about a hundred rock stars who were bigger assholes than Satyr. Actually, I have never thought of him as an asshole at all, despite rumours saying what has been said here in this post. My feeling is that some peolple get very jealous when they meet a rock star with credibility and a godlike status for some, especially when they are not fans themselves. Some of these people seem to have a hard time understanding that the rock stars are also humans who will treat you like you treat them....

During the years I have been warned about rock stars who are supposed to be assholes more times than I can count. Most of them turned out to be perfectly nice.... I have met very few real assholes, the ones I have met are often "up and coming" stars that are later remembered for never getting past the "up and coming" stage....

OK, a big rant about something not even related to the threads original theme, but.... Well, I think I had to say this....

Regards,
larsK
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t(h)ik

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Re: recording snare and bass drum for "speed" metal
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2006, 10:43:43 am »

I think it's cool you took the time to explain things.

I hope no one would form an opinion about someone based on a forum.

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