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[Walter Odington]

I was wondering what peoples opinions were on practices and equipment for field recordings.

I myself have to go out and record the sounds of the city, the public transport, animals at the zoo (boo to zoos), sounds from the great outdorrs, rivers etc etc.

So far I'm using a minidisc and cheap omni, but want to tackle things more professionaly. I dont really like to use a lossless codec on the recording, but what hand held alternatives are there? I do have a powerbook. Shame iPods dont have an ADC (though I would not expect it to be of high quality). Maybe a Metric Halo I/O is good on the move? Any experiences of people wandering aound with big bags of computer gear whilst making HD recordings?

Anyone got any general advice?

Thanks in Advance

[Zaireeka]

portable DAT's are fairly common for this kind of thing, you can get one for under

[Tim Halligan]

Portable DAT, but if you are using the more "walkman" style types (Sony TCD-D7 or D8) you will need an external mixer that can supply phantom power...

HHB used to make the Portadat in 2 versions: with TC or without TC. That's got all you need right there.

Fostex PD-4: 3 channel mixer integrated with a good transport. The PD-2 is rarer, mainly because it's older and didn't sell as well as the 4.

Next, lose the cheap omni. Actually, that should have been first.

Assuming you want stereo, you have a veritable plethora of options. Here's a few:
Shure VP-88. Point source. Not bad...until you have to crank the gain to get the really quiet stuff, then it's a bit noisy.
Sennheiser MKH 418. Point source MS mic. This will have to be decoded in post, but it can give you more control. Upside to this mic is that the M mic IS a 416.
AKG CK1x's with either 451 or 460 bodies. Whack the heads into a Rycote sphere for great coincident stereo atmoses.
Rode NT-4. I haven't used it. Some swear by it. Being a Rode, I usually swear AT them. Again, some kind of Zeppelin is essential if your going to be outdoors.
Schoeps Stereo Spere. Fantastic...but I wouldn't feel good about taking it outdoors.
Crown SASS. Various versions. Pick your own poison. If your source sound is closer than about 2' you can end up with a "hole in the middle" effect. I don't mind these at all, but they are a little bulky.

If you don't have good windsocks, you are completely screwed.

Assuming you may want to record to HD, Sound Devices 722 would be ideal, or a 744 allowing you to simultaneously record a stereo AND a mono.

There are plenty of other HD recorders out there. Deva, HHB, Aaton Cantar to name a few...

Your best bet is to hire this stuff from Samuelsons or another film hire joint, rather than having to shell out the big bucks for the good stuff.

Or you could just buy the BBC sound effects discs and be done with it.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Tim

[Edit: damn afterthoughts! ]

[TB-AV]

Check out the Edirol R-4 or R-1

Edirol.com

[mtw00]

I've been using a Marantz PMD660.  You've got the option of 128k MP3, and 44.1/44k wav.  2 pre-amps with 48v and some handy features.  (e.g. when recording, if you hit pause, then pause again a new track is created)

The stock compact flash card is way too small and it sucks up batteries like crazy, but the sound quality is decent and it's nice and portable.  Plus you don't have to deal with DAT tapes.  I've used it with a Sennheiser shotgun and stereo Earthworks TC30Ks (omni) with good results.

[Greg Youngman]

Edirol R-1.  Using one with AT-822, Rode NT4, Sennheiser ME-67 mics for FX recording for small film and video productions.  The only thing I don't like about it is the record level indicator is slow in responding, not calibrated and not stereo.  But, once you get used to this limitation, it is a fabulous recorder for what you want to use it for.  You get almost 2 hours of stereo 16 bit 44.1 wav files on a 2 Gb flash card.  Runs well on Duracell 2050 mAh, NiMH rechargeable batteries (2 x AA). MUCH better than dealing with DAT.

[Antonw]

Hi,

I'm a very happy Sound devices 722 owner, great unit but you pay for it. ($2375)
I've heard great things done with the Edirol R-4 (plus its 4 ch!) which can be had for about $1200 i believe.
Another option i've been hearing a lot about recently is the new M-audio Microtracker, but at this point you might want to avoid that unit because of firmware bugs (but its moderatly priced around $400)
I've rented a Marantz 670 but it definantly wasnt for me, the pre-amps are loud mofo's.

[davidl]

I'm a DISsatisfied Sound Devices 744T owner. It's too fiddley, has a ridiculously crowded LCD screen that is badly illuminated, and too many critical functions are in software rather than being controlled by knobs. The people who designed it seem to have listened only to film recordists, not to those of us who do field work recording musicians.

If it's within your budget, I suggest you get a Nagra V. If not, then look around for a Portadat, whose shortcomings are: 1) it's 16 bit, rather than 24 bit; 2) it uses DAT tape; 3) it has Japanese preamps, rather than the far better Sound Devices versions.

Mics:

A pair of EV RE50ND.

A pair of really good small diaphragm cardioids (I use KM84s)

A really good bidirectional (Iuse a Senn MKH30).

I use the KM84s as a crossed pair for recording rituals in Tibetan temples.

A Rycote stereo windscreen containing one of the 84s with the MKH30 works well for making Mid-Side recordings, both outdoors and indoors. Let's say I'm recording two or three musicians in a remote Himalayan village, a vocalist or solo instrumentalist with accompanying singers & musicians: I use the Mid-Side rig, with the soloist centred in the image, and the other performers to left and right. The Rycote prevents them from getting too close to the mics. This configuration works very nicely outdoors, too.

NB: For Mid-Side recording, the recorder MUST provide Mid-Side monitoring. The Portadat and Sound Devices boxes offer this function. Most of the cheap units don't.

The RE50ND are handholdable omnis. When I'm recording outdoors, and the sound from the Mid-Side rig doesn't please me, I switch to the RE50s, holding one in each hand, as far apart as necessary.

Get a really sturdy headset, something that can withstand abuse when you're in remote places. I still use a Koss 4AA.

Mic cables: Three sets, a pair of 50', a pair of 15', and a pair of 5' for handheld recording.

Batteries: Lots.

Unpretentious baggage. All my critical equipment travels in a daypack.

Field backups:

If you go the Portadat route, also get a Walkdat and the appropriate digital cable. It's important to make backups as you go along. Carry two different brands of DAT tapes. One batch could be bad, but the other should be OK. I make original recordings on one brand, the backup on the second brand.

If you go the HD recorder route, add a laptop with DVD burner to your ensemble. Transfer the recordings to laptop & burn to DVD.

Salutations, David Lewiston

[Tim Halligan]

davidl wrote on Mon, 26 September 2005 04:43

I'm a DISsatisfied Sound Devices 744T owner. It's too fiddley, has a ridiculously crowded LCD screen that is badly illuminated, and too many critical functions are in software rather than being controlled by knobs. The people who designed it seem to have listened only to film recordists, not to those of us who do field work recording musicians.

Well, I guess in the portable field recorder market, the film guys are the majority. The fact that the unit is versatile enough to be able to cover more than one base - as are the Nagra, Deva, Aaton Cantar and all of the other devices - speaks to good design.

Apparently there has been a recent software release for the 422 which may address some of the issues you raise.


Anyhoo, the original poster was enquiring about sound fx recording - not music...

Your suggestions about backups in the field are sage advice..

Cheers,
Tim

[davidl]

Recording sound effects in the field has more in common with music recording than film work.

The *software* updates of the SD machines can't remedy what is fundamentally a lame design.

The designer couldn't even get the outer case right. Recently, SD realised that the A/D card was defective, and supplied corrected cards to users. So far, so good. It took me five minutes to open the case, and one minute to swap the card. Then I spent three hours trying to fit the case together, without success. Called tech support the following morning. The chap talked me through the process, again without success, and I wound up having to Fedex it to SD at my own expense just to have the case closed!

Every pro recorder I've used since the Stellavox in the early '70s has had a case that opened and closed easily. This isn't rocket science.

At the SD website, 744 users who record all 4 channels complain that there's no way to monitor all of them at the same time. I wonder how long it will take the company to deal with this issue.

My advice to field recordists with a decent budget: Get a Nagra.

David Lewiston

[Antonw]

Thanks for the Mike suggestions David, they are useful to me also. I also like the suggestion of a unpretentious bag, what kind of bag do (did) you use for the 744? Currently im using a DV cam bag where i punctured it to be able to use normal xlr connector, however its a little short on the sides which makes accessing the phone and menu button a bit of a pain.  
 I understand your grieves with the 744, although i don't share them because i don't need that functionality. There are other things about the 7-series that are in need of improvement.
Im thinking about the lack of a delete function. And also (see a recent post of mine on the SD forum) the lack of BEXT chuck date on the 722.

PS: why are rycotes so ridiculously expensive? (And why is the DPA windpak so truely insanely expensive)
PPS: EV RE50ND-B, its looks nice from the spec, thanks for putting my attention onto this one. Although im saving up for a M/S setup at the moment this does like a great mike to keep around for the on the go recordings.

[davidl]

Antonw wrote on Wed, 28 September 2005 10:25

PPS: EV RE50ND-B, its looks nice from the spec, thanks for putting my attention onto this one. Although im saving up for a M/S setup at the moment this does like a great mike to keep around for the on the go recordings.

I've used these very modestly priced mics for lots of successful recordings. In Bali this pair is all I use. Gamelan is meant to be heard outdoors, and a spaced pair of well-behaved omnis works wonders. To get an idea of their quality, listen to the Nonesuch Explorer "Bali: Gamelan & Kecak" and Bridge Records "Kecak, a Balinese Music Drama." A pair of spaced RE50s captured all of this. They also worked wonderfully well for many Himalayan recordings. Although they're dynamic, and roll off below 100 Hz and above 13 kHz, you'd never know it from the recordings. As said earlier, they're very well-behaved.

To anyone thinking of buying a used pair on Ebay, a caution: the RE50 consists of a small RE635a mic inside a handholdable casing, with foam in between the two. The foam degrades with time. No way to tell how old the mics are, and the condition of capsule & foam, if you buy them used. Electrovoice has been steadily jacking up the refurbishment price, so it may cost more to buy them used and find out they have to be refurbished. My advice: Buy them new.

David Lewiston

[Antonw]

davidl wrote on Thu, 29 September 2005 07:22

I've used these very modestly priced mics for lots of successful recordings. In Bali this pair is all I use. Gamelan is meant to be heard outdoors, and a spaced pair of well-behaved omnis works wonders. To get an idea of their quality, listen to the Nonesuch Explorer "Bali: Gamelan & Kecak" and Bridge Records "Kecak, a Balinese Music Drama." A pair of spaced RE50s captured all of this. They also worked wonderfully well for many Himalayan recordings. Although they're dynamic, and roll off below 100 Hz and above 13 kHz, you'd never know it from the recordings. As said earlier, they're very well-behaved.

Hi David,
Very cool, im not familiar with those recordings but i am with gamelan. One of my teachers  at the USMT is quite knowledgable on the subject and last year i had the fortune to be able to work on a sample library recording the gamelan of the conservatory here in Utrecht. Unfortunatly though, in a rather poor acoustic enviroment which is why it hasnt been released to the public. I've been thinking about re'doing the project but this time in the anechoic chamber we have here left over from the days that the school building housed the NOB.

[davidl]

Antonw wrote on Wed, 28 September 2005 23:56

Hi David, Very cool, im not familiar with those recordings but i am with gamelan. One of my teachers  at the USMT is quite knowledgable on the subject and last year i had the fortune to be able to work on a sample library recording the gamelan of the conservatory here in Utrecht. Unfortunatly though, in a rather poor acoustic enviroment which is why it hasnt been released to the public. I've been thinking about re'doing the project but this time in the anechoic chamber we have here left over from the days that the school building housed the NOB.

It's important to specify  which gamelans are being discussed. Balinese and Javanese gamelan are very different.

It's my impression that the Netherlands is more likely to have Javanese gamelans, which are known for subtlety and delicacy. In Java, the best ensembles perform indoors in the kratons of Solo and Jogja, and that's how they should be recorded -- in rooms with appealing acoustics.

With their power and brilliance, Balinese gamelans, on the other hand, are intended for outdoor performances, and that's where they should be recorded. While Javanese gamelans can be recorded more or less as they set up for performance, Balinese gamelans need to be reconfigured for recording. Anechoic chambers don't appeal to me. A pleasant outdoor acoustic is what's called for. I often help Balinese recordings in post, using the Nature room simulations in Samplitude to help things along.

Salutations, David Lewiston

[Walter Odington]

Some superb advice here. Very interesting to get the insights of those who have already trod this ground. Thank you.


What do people think about using laptops with FW audio interfaces? There must be a FW powered interface that offers phanom power?

I wouldn't have thought a bagged laptop would make too much noise.


Also, what would be good mic(s) to jump in feet first with? The fore mentioned EV RE50ND-B? The price looked attractive.

I am keen to use the laptop route as there is a perception in me that this could be done cheaper whilst still capable of good quality. (ie I already have a laptop, and a mobile FW interface should cost less than HD recorder)


Am I being ignorant? Please tell me everything I dont know!