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[Dave Peck]

Back to the original question, I've worked with a lot of mastering engineers in recent years, (providing support for HDCD mastering converters) and I only know of a couple of guys who are using tube amps. And these amps are not Cary or McIntosh, so I don't know of any mastering engineers who are using the brands you are asking about.

BTW, the guys who are using tube amp are highly respected mastering engineers who have excellent systems and use them to do some of the very best work, so it's not accurate to say that the best amps for mastering are all solid state. Many of them are, but there are a few exceptions.

(sorry, I can't name names because I don't know if these guys would be OK with that).

[Ronny]

davebythelake wrote on Wed, 10 August 2005 12:10

Back to the original question, I've worked with a lot of mastering engineers in recent years, (providing support for HDCD mastering converters) and I only know of a couple of guys who are using tube amps. And these amps are not Cary or McIntosh, so I don't know of any mastering engineers who are using the brands you are asking about. BTW, the guys who are using tube amp are highly respected mastering engineers who have excellent systems and use them to do some of the very best work, so it's not accurate to say that the best amps for mastering are all solid state. Many of them are, but there are a few exceptions. (sorry, I can't name names because I don't know if these guys would be OK with that).

McIntosh amps were real popular in mix studios in the 70's and early 80's, at least down south. I haven't heard much about them since those days, but they had their fair share of the market. At one time WRT concert amps in the 70's, the McIntosh and Crown DCA's were neck in neck in top sales. Other than reliability which both the Crown and Mc concert amps had a problem with, the sound was indeed transparent. There is a factor that many people omit when they talk about comparing tube amps with solidstate amps and that is when the tubes start getting old they'll degrade sonically and it's at such a slow rate that the ear can get used to it, making you unaware of the degradation until you retube. You really need to compare tube amps with solidstate with the tubes in good condition to put it on an even keel. A good quality tube amp with good tubes imparts little color of it's own, IMHO.  

[J.J. Blair]

What does it matter if your amps are coloring the sound if Coco is going to come and tune the thing anyway?



But more importantly, even if something DOES color something, as long as you are able to translate what you hear into a mix or a master that works, who gives a shit?  Just because I hate NS10s doesn't mean that people didn't manage to make some great mixes on them.  If you like the sound of a particular tube amp, then just fucking use it.  David Bock and Dave Collins probably have way better ears than I do.  They hear shit I can only dream about.  Neither of them probably care for Genelecs, but I seem to mix OK on them.  

And to my amateur ears, the Manleys sounded pretty fucking good when I was driving a whole monitor with them.  They didn't sound colored to any noticeable extent, unless "smooth" is a color.

[dcollins]

ammitsboel wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 06:58

To me the MAC amps sounds unclear and flat when compared to a tube amp like the Audio Note Silver Meishu which is about the same price.

But that's only 9 watts for US$7500!  

Do you work for Audionote, or something?

DC

[mcsnare]

The last time I was at Sterling, which was about a year ago, Greg Calbi had an Audio Research VT someting 200? on his Pro Ac's.
Dave McNair

[zmix]

I use both solid state and class A SE tube amps extensively and I actually think that my solid state amps color the sound more than my tube amps do.

When I mix, I want to make the listening experience as musical as possible, and I find that -for lack of a better description- I am simply more emotionally connected to the music when I use the tube amps for monitoring. Other properties I have noticed include the ability to hear outboard (or plugin, if you must) compression artifacts and very small textural differences more clearly with the tube amp than I can do with any of my solid state amps.

FWIW, my solid state amps generate much more heat when idling than either of my  tube amps.

[ammitsboel]

dcollins wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 00:03

ammitsboel wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 06:58 To me the MAC amps sounds unclear and flat when compared to a tube amp like the Audio Note Silver Meishu which is about the same price. But that's only 9 watts for US$7500!   Do you work for Audionote, or something?

Yes, it's "only" 9 watts. You will need efficient speakers to go with it.
Yes, I work for AN UK.

How loud do you usually play when you master?

Best Regards
Henrik

[bblackwood]

ammitsboel wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 03:42

Yes, it's "only" 9 watts. You will need efficient speakers to go with it.

Ever heard the cliche about the cart and the horse?

Quote:

Yes, I work for AN UK.

At least you've been forthcoming about this fact. Not like you've been on here posting about how amazing audio note is for ever without telling us you work for them...

Wow.

Quote:

How loud do you usually play when you master?

I generally listen in the 78-83dBspl range most of them time, but do turn it up for a sec to check how it 'rocks'.

Ever heard of dynamics?

On the subject of the thread, I've heard some great sounding tube amps over the years, but chose the Pass Labs X250 as it sounds fantastic and I don't have any of the worries associated with tube amps (tube degradation, lack of power to drive large-ish speakers such as my old VH3208s, much less the N802s, etc.). That being said, I had an old Audio Research amp (from before they were called AR) that was 40x2 and after some recapping and new tubes, it sounded great. Not enough juice to power my mains to any real level, but really 'involving' playback.

Still haven't heard a tube amp as accurate as my X250.

[ammitsboel]

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 10:58

ammitsboel wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 03:42  Yes, it's "only" 9 watts. You will need efficient speakers to go with it. Ever heard the cliche about the cart and the horse?

If it's what I think it is then generalizing like that doesn't help anybody else than yourself. There can be many reasons as to why people choose the way they do. Don't think that you system doesn't add a fair amount of color to the incoming signal. Could it be that what you describe as neutral sounds colored to me and what I describe as neutral sounds colored to you?

If the cliche is about something else, then tell me about it.

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 10:58

ammitsboel wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 03:42 Yes, I work for AN UK. At least you've been forthcoming about this fact. Not like you've been on here posting about how amazing audio note is for ever without telling us you work for them... Wow.

It's recently that I've come to work for AN.

[bblackwood]

ammitsboel wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 07:09

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 10:58 ammitsboel wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 03:42  Yes, it's "only" 9 watts. You will need efficient speakers to go with it. Ever heard the cliche about the cart and the horse? If it's what I think it is then generalizing like that doesn't help anybody else than yourself. There can be many reasons as to why people choose the way they do. Don't think that you system doesn't add a fair amount of color to the incoming signal. Could it be that what you describe as neutral sounds colored to me and what I describe as neutral sounds colored to you?

Of course, the point is that the speaker adds exponentially more distortion to the signal than any decent amplifier, so why choose the amplifier first if it drastically reduces what speakers you can choose?

Seems completely backwards to me.

Quote:

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 10:58 ammitsboel wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 03:42 Yes, I work for AN UK. At least you've been forthcoming about this fact. Not like you've been on here posting about how amazing audio note is for ever without telling us you work for them... Wow. It's recently that I've come to work for AN.

It's common professional courtesy to tell people you work for a company if you are going to be shilling their products.



Anyone else have any good tube amp recommendations? I'm considering one for the lounge listening system...

[rphilbeck]

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 08:36

Anyone else have any good tube amp recommendations? I'm considering one for the lounge listening system...

Conrad Johnson.  You'll definitely want to check out their stuff.  

http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just_sounds_right/current-pr oducts.html

[Larrchild]

I use Westlake BBSM's driven by Acoustat all-fet amps.

But I have a very large 2 pole contactor that switches the MF and HF drivers to a high-passed MC Intosh 240.

So I have both.  Nanner Nanner.

[Bob Olhsson]

dcollins wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 21:41

...I used re-capped Mac 240's on Quested H-108's for years.  A good tool, and if there was some toob colouration, I couldn't it hear it.

Of course those accurate tube Macs were never real audiophile pets although they sure sounded better to most of us than their solid state replacements.

I miss my Mac 60 and especially my 200s from the early '70s real bad. They looked so cool with the lights out. Just not bad enough to pay the going rate...

[mike chafee]

Quote:

I don't know a single mastering engineer or room that uses tube amps.  The serious choices (Bryston, Cello, Pass, Hot House, high end Haflers, etc.) are all solid state.  I'd be interested to hear about a mastering engineer who uses a tube amp in the monitoring chain! -tom

Sir,
Both Doug Sax and Mark Wilder use tube amps built by Doug's brother Sherwood

Mike Chafee

[mike chafee]

zetterstroem wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 09:43

"To me, sonically, this is kind of the opposite of the Genelec approach" what is the genelec approach??.... they make crap sounding speakers with built-in limiters that makes them unusable for critical monitoring....

George Massenburg just installed Genelec 89050's in his new studio.

Mike Chafee