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[j.hall]

John Sorensen wrote on Tue, 02 August 2005 10:19

....And we power them with beer....

that's all you needed to say.

[dikledoux]

And another thing from the peanut gallery over here <g>...

Each song may very well require a different approach - even if the players and instruments are the same!  Which makes this part of mixing especially tough for me, personally.

dik

[drumsound]

dikledoux wrote on Wed, 03 August 2005 13:17

And another thing from the peanut gallery over here <g>... Each song may very well require a different approach - even if the players and instruments are the same!  Which makes this part of mixing especially tough for me, personally. dik

That's what I love about mixing!

[John Ivan]

Sometimes I'll take the bass and growl the hell out of it with compression and EQ,{it helps if you print the bass through a loud SVT rig on the edge and record it with an RE-20} then, when the bass is peeling the paint of the walls, I will duck it out of the way with the kick drum.   This can work great on very aggressive stuff.. I don't know but, it seems like this could have happened on "Blood Sex Magic".. Of course, that's quite a bass drum team...

[TunaSafeDolphin]

John Sorensen wrote on Tue, 02 August 2005 11:58

bert wrote on Tue, 02 August 2005 09:43 what do you exactly mean by expanding the bass while keying it with the kick? Oh, sorry, I didn't clarify. So run the bass through an expander/gate. But, as you know, most dynamics processors have a key input (perhaps called 'sidechain input' in compressors), so the kick drum track would plug into that. (for those people who don't do much expanding/gating/compressing/whatever then "normally" the functioning of a dynamics processor is governed by the audio that you are running through it - ie. the "detector" is in the audio path. When you use the key input the functioning of the processor is governed by what is fed to the that input - ie. the audio in the audio path is acted upon by the audio in the key input since the key input is activating the detector circuit). Parameters; attack - fast; release - work it out to be appropriate musically/in time with the music; ratio - whatever works; range would be minus 3 db. Set the device to key input mode. The idea is that each kick hit opens the expander up to full gain. Since the bass is in the audio path of the expander it gets a 3db bump for each kick hit. Wheee!

I almost ALWAYS do the exact OPPOSITE when working with a rock mix. Sidechain a compressor to knock down the bass in tadem with the kick. This helps me keep the low end in order, and allows me to get the bass a little louder overall in the mix.

Go Figure.

Christian

[robot gigante]

TunaSafeDolphin wrote on Mon, 12 September 2005 02:41

John Sorensen wrote on Tue, 02 August 2005 11:58 bert wrote on Tue, 02 August 2005 09:43 what do you exactly mean by expanding the bass while keying it with the kick? Oh, sorry, I didn't clarify. So run the bass through an expander/gate. But, as you know, most dynamics processors have a key input (perhaps called 'sidechain input' in compressors), so the kick drum track would plug into that. (for those people who don't do much expanding/gating/compressing/whatever then "normally" the functioning of a dynamics processor is governed by the audio that you are running through it - ie. the "detector" is in the audio path. When you use the key input the functioning of the processor is governed by what is fed to the that input - ie. the audio in the audio path is acted upon by the audio in the key input since the key input is activating the detector circuit). Parameters; attack - fast; release - work it out to be appropriate musically/in time with the music; ratio - whatever works; range would be minus 3 db. Set the device to key input mode. The idea is that each kick hit opens the expander up to full gain. Since the bass is in the audio path of the expander it gets a 3db bump for each kick hit. Wheee! I almost ALWAYS do the exact OPPOSITE when working with a rock mix. Sidechain a compressor to knock down the bass in tadem with the kick. This helps me keep the low end in order, and allows me to get the bass a little louder overall in the mix. Go Figure. Christian

FWIW, me too.

[takeout]

j.hall wrote on Tue, 02 August 2005 15:18

takeout wrote on Tue, 02 August 2005 08:05 We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.  Some of my favorite rock records break every rule listed above. what are some examples you have?

How did this come back from the dead?

Exhibit A: The Figgs Banda Macho.  Bass is at least as loud as the kick on that record.  It also happens to be their best-sounding record.

Exhibit B: most of Elvis Costello's When I Was Cruel.  Davey Faragher is way up in the mix.

I'll dip into my iRiver if you want more examples.  

And what was with the "tracking engineer" crack?  I could almost picture you posting that with a sneer...

[j.hall]

takeout wrote on Mon, 12 September 2005 12:12

And what was with the "tracking engineer" crack?  I could almost picture you posting that with a sneer...

it was much more of a smirk......

[mikepecchio]

bert wrote on Tue, 02 August 2005 04:43

what do you exactly mean by expanding the bass while keying it with the kick?

expand?  sounds backwards to me.  I sometimes sidechain COMPRESS the bass keyed to the kick. just about 1 dB of reduction, quickish attack and release. allows you to bump up the bass in the mix a little more than normal and still not drown out the kick. especially if the bass player used an octave divider. Im mixing an album right now with lots of fast doubble kick and even though Ive got several very nice hardware compressors here, believe it or not a ren comp is actually sounding great in this capacity.

I'll share one of my best secrets for bass clarity: I mult the bass track (the miced amp not the DI) and run it to one of those cassette adapters designed for use with a portable CD player, stick that in a cassette deck and gain it so its a little below where hard clipping starts. just blend it in a little.  also experiment with boosting the trebble in the send and then engage whatever noise reduction the deck has.

best,
mike p

[Tidewater]

Yes. Bass bloom, a gigantic flower.


M

[TheViking]

One thing I always have to remind myself about kick and bass is that both of these sources cover a gigantic amount of space in the entire frequency field.   They are basically covering most of every frequency we hear in a mix.   They are key to the energy in any mix.   Therefore they require a considerable amount of attention when tracking IMO.

Concerning bass guitar...

I have an 8x10 cab that was built by a friend of mine loaded with these Eminance speakers with huge cones.   It's the loudest 8x10 I think I have ever heard in my life - no matter what head you run through it, it's a beast.

Tracking bass, I almost always use an SM57 on the 8x10 through my Dan Alexander 1272 with a touch of Distressor - well, maybe more than a touch, but it sounds sooo good.   Don't over-compress.   Just smooth it out till it feels right with the other stuff going on in the song.

If I want more beef in the low end I will throw a D112, Beta52 or a comparible dynamic with a low-end emphasis on the bottom of the cab.   Make sure it's in phase with the 57 or shift it around in your DAW later if you're lazy.

Between those two mics or the combination of the two, I always find the right amount of growl, low end and presence to make everyone happy.   I've sent my tracks to other mixers who agree.

Any other methods to this madness???   I'm curious to know what some other techniques are.   Thanks for listening.