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[Tomas Danko]

7minAbs wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 14:45

Quote: i think william's perspective is a little more formed then most all of ours that frequent this forum. he has in fact, lived it. Indeed. He has contributed to the sound track of my life.

Ditto on the contribution!


Just because everybody is thinking it's all commercial these days, doesn't have to mean you have to keep thinking and acting as if your very own musical expression has to be conformed into commerciality.

I still believe that the everyday listener can always hear a difference between mammonized production and something that came true and honest out of someone with true intentions.

Intentions tell more than what first meets the ear (or eye, for that matter).

[j.hall]

so, we all sound replace, auto tune and compress the snot out of everything cause that's what is trendy now?  so then when the trend changes by some one with big enough balls to step outside the norm and generate a hit or two....we all just fall into place and get in line and play follow the leader again?

the reason people hire me is because of me....my ears, my approach, my thing.  if that means i need to sound replace, then i'll do it.....but it's all about me NOT playing follow the leader

it's about me being me......that's why people hire all of us, because of who we are as unique individuals that bring something to the table.

don't ever overlook that.  you are your biggest advertisement.

[Benmrx]

interesting twist this topic has taken.  as far as the fashion goes, I feel like it was when I was in highschool (mid 90s) that things got really screwy.  The whole punk rock thing (mostly the fashion) became very mainstream with rancid and greenday kids going to hot topic for their studded belts.  

The commercial aspect has gotten worse as the years go on.  These days, you're getting hit with advertisements any time you step outside or use the boob tube.  Almost every channel now has a constant logo at the bottom left or right of the screen.....it never goes away...exept for the commercial break.  

I'm pretty optomistic about the future of music at this point though.  There's more then a handful of really great, new bands in town right now, and they all sound pretty different.  I think bands are coming back...guitar solos...big harmonys......energetic live shows, etc.  The idea of going to a show, and watching a group of honestly talented people will turn people on.  

The indie rock kids are stepping it up a notch.....I mean how many built to spill clones can there be?  

BTW..just finished mixing the last song of a e.p......on one song I edited one drum hit, cause he wacked the mic.    

[7minAbs]

Agreed.

I guess I was referring to what someone mentioned earlier in regards to catering to their clients needs.

BTW, I've had my vocals autotuned, guitars chopped, etc. ...so I am not against the practice.

On the other hand I have older recordings done with minimal gear, no editing, that I like very much.

Peace.

[Benmrx]

"catering to their clients needs"

That's what you gotta do.  I guess it just depends on which kind of band your typical client is.  I've never once had a band come in and want their record to sound like the killers, franz ferdinand, jet or modest mouse.  

I've always thought that a big part of what the underground music scene does, is rebel against what ever is mainstream.  And right now, those bands mentioned above are pretty darn mainstream.  People here don't want to sound like that.  They're past it, maybe 3 or 4 years ago they would've wanted a sound similar to those records.  But that was when limp biscuit was king of the hill, and no one knew who the yeah yeah yeahs were.  Now they're after something new.

The "indie rock" scene is undergoing a bit of a make-over if you ask me.  Now that it's gotten marketed, advertised, used in car commercials, etc. over the past couple of years.  It's all homogonized, and no longer indie rock if you ask me.....isn't the indie supposed to stand for independent?  

"Many bands are put together by the producer/label and are centered around the singer"............and this is still considered an indie rock band???!  

I guess it's the same thing that happened to the punk scene.  But still, I have to say there are just a ton of great bands out there right now.  And I love being at least a small part of todays music scene.






 

[Benmrx]

I just wanted to say, that I was not trying to start a flame war or anything regarding the use of auto-tune or beat detective.  I was just curious about how common the practice is amongst non-major label releases.

[7minAbs]

The part of my post about catering to the clients was based on this earlier post:

Quote:

It infects the bands we work with. They want all the sounds seperated - back in the 80's it was triggers or seperate tracking of each sound of the drum kit - now we have sound replacer and apptrigga. They want their drums quantized so that they can compete with their peers. It's more about image and the appearence. They heard that new Post Hardcore Emo Screamo Indie band they all want to sound exactly like used sound replacer and beat detective so they want it too.

The "forming a band around the singer" comment was in response to your question:

Quote:

That's insane. And this whole ghost tracking idea? It's one thing to find the best drummer you possibly can for say......bruce springstein, but a 20 something 3-5 piece band? What's the point? Why not just let the producer form the band based around the singer.........or is that what's going on already?

It sounded as if the conversation had digressed out of the realms of indie music at that point. Sorry for the confusion. =0).

I'm not sure anyone cares enough about the subject at this point to start a flame. AT least I don't =0). Good luck!

[Benmrx]

I see what you're saying about the conversation digressing.  I was just stating that it's shocking to me,...regarding the use of auto-tune, or ghosting tracks, etc. in indie rock....which is why I orginally posted this question on this forum.

Maybe I've got a skewed view of what "indie rock" really is.  But I've always thought it to be very similar to the DIY thing.  

I'm a big fan of lots of records that I'm sure used every fix-it tool in the book, and I'm sure many would be considered "indie rock".

But I didn't know that it was common practice for most.  Maybe I'm missing out.  I'm still using OS9 and PTLE, so I've never had a chance to play with beat detective.

[wwittman]

my idea of indie rock is that it's released on an indie label.

any other assumption won't hold up under scrutiny.

[Benmrx]

I guess I'm eating my own words here from my earlier post.  But I would consider built to spill to be an indie rock band, and they're on warner bros.

But I would make an educated guess that Phil Ek isn't using beat detective, despite it's major label assocations.

Like I said earlier though, I really had no idea that it was so common to use beat detective, auto-tune, sound replacer, etc.  and that's what I was curious about.  

[j.hall]

wwittman wrote on Sun, 31 July 2005 09:32

my idea of indie rock is that it's released on an indie label. any other assumption won't hold up under scrutiny.

a very typical statement from a person working in the major label market.

scrutinize however you like, the term means something entirely different for those of us living it every day.

[Benmrx]

So now my question is for those that use beat detective, especially in Pro Tools LE.  At what point in the session do you use beat detective.  

After you've gotten all your basic tracking done for all the songs?

Is this something you do when the band is there?  Because I assume it's alot of watching a beach ball, or a little bar go from 0-100% on the computer screen.

Do you use it when the band isn't looking?  And not tell them?  If, say they were against the use of such tools.

[wwittman]

j.hall wrote on Mon, 01 August 2005 08:33

wwittman wrote on Sun, 31 July 2005 09:32 my idea of indie rock is that it's released on an indie label. any other assumption won't hold up under scrutiny. a very typical statement from a person working in the major label market. scrutinize however you like, the term means something entirely different for those of us living it every day.

okay, what does it mean to you?


the problem, as I see it, is you start to get people saying things like "I don't consider them 'indie'" when what they really mean is I don't consider them "cool."

Is REM an indie band?
Why? Why not?

[zmix]

Way back in the 1990s the term "Alternative" was used to describe. variously; a radio format, a style of music, a lifestyle.
Ten years after Nirvana, the question became: "Alternative to what?"

[NelsonL]

wwittman wrote on Mon, 01 August 2005 15:07

j.hall wrote on Mon, 01 August 2005 08:33 wwittman wrote on Sun, 31 July 2005 09:32 my idea of indie rock is that it's released on an indie label. any other assumption won't hold up under scrutiny. a very typical statement from a person working in the major label market. scrutinize however you like, the term means something entirely different for those of us living it every day. okay, what does it mean to you? the problem, as I see it, is you start to get people saying things like "I don't consider them 'indie'" when what they really mean is I don't consider them "cool." Is REM an indie band? Why? Why not?

I don't know if REM is an indie band, I do know I like their early stuff a lot better than anything they did in the 90's. Surprise, surprise right?

Anyway, if I might muddy the waters somewhat, I would submit that Death Cab For Cutie is, and will continue to be "indie" despite there move to a major. They are quintessentially "indie rock," --whatever that means.

Camper Van Beethoven, whose independent catalog eclipses their major output in volume, never was or will be "indie rock."

They're great, don't get me wrong, but not indie rock in my book. Was anyone else disappointed that the Dennis Herring article in tape op didn't even mention them?

I've said this before here, so I apologize for being redundant:
I may not be able to define indie/pornography, but I know it when I hear/see it.