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[jazzius]

What is it with hip hoppers and time keeping?.......it seems like they inhabit a seperate parallel universe where completely different laws of time apply...how do these guys get thru life?..

..just had to vent....thanks for listening!

[Thomas W. Bethel]

jazzius wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 06:20

What is it with hip hoppers and time keeping?.......it seems like they inhabit a seperate parallel universe where completely different laws of time apply...how do these guys get thru life?.. ..just had to vent....thanks for listening!

I have had rappers and hip hoppers come in as much as 7 hours late to a session. I have pretty much broken them of the habit since I tell them up front that the session starts at the time they book so if they are 7 hours late they get billed for my time for 7 hours BEFORE we start the real mastering setup. One group got really upset and refused to pay for the time they were not in attendance. I explained to them that I was ready for them to start when they said they wanted to start and I gave them my undivided attention during the time I was waiting for them since I really did not know when they would arrive. They finally paid for the time with a lot of general griping but they were at the next session 5 minutes early so maybe they learned their lesson.

At the end of the session when I gave them the bill the lead rapper looked at the bill and said "hey man if I pay for this session I won't have any money for my blo"  but he paid anyway since he needed the master for replication and I refused to give it to him without the full amount paid (in cash).

I feel your pain but you have to basically lay down the rules before they arrive if you don't you will be working with their timetable not yours.

[Ronny]

I had quite a suprise mastering a hip hop cd earlier this week. Not one F, S or N word on the whole cd, no killing cops or hating whitey lyrics, I about had a heart attack. I don't do a lot of hip-hop, no more than 10 cd's a year, but this was the first one that I've ever done that was clean enough to play for young kids. Seems like one prime ingredient besides the bass and machined kick drum being twice as loud as everything else, is the x-rated lyrics. I almost enjoyed working on hip-hop for the first time. The one that I did last month had the F word in just about every sentence, which is par for the course with most of them.

[Trillium Sound]

Ronny wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 09:31

Not one F, S or N word on the whole cd, no killing cops or hating whitey lyrics

Well, I could not say the same. 2 weeks ago, I got one CD to do and there were a minimum of 50 F, S or N word in each song . Some songs maybe more.

I am getting 1 out of 20 interesting Hip-Hop projects. All the rest is that stuff with the one or same two chords songs, verses, chorus and bridges if any.

[Ed Littman]

jazzius wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 06:20

What is it with hip hoppers and time keeping?.......!

What you don't mean with a metranome?
Ed

[Jerry Tubb]

Ronny wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 08:31

I don't do a lot of hip-hop, no more than 10 cd's a year... I almost enjoyed working on hip-hop for the first time.

We don't do much Rap/Hip-Hop either, it's just not our thing, so we refer to others.

I think we did only one this year, and it was a religious group.

I assume there are ME's that really do dig it, and specialize in it.

Peace  

[jlapointe]

JayTea wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 11:53

I assume there are ME's that really do dig it, and specialize in it.

I master a metric tonne of hiphop stuff, but a lot of what I get in would fall under the category of "experimental" hiphop.  Most of this stuff is very intelligent, politically aware, and well produced.  

Labels like Anticon, Endemik Music, and Ninja Tune are releasing some of the most compelling music out there right now.

[TotalSonic]

JayTea wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 15:53

I assume there are ME's that really do dig it, and specialize in it. Peace

Yup - I love hip-hop.  Being in NYC the majority of the stuff I do is hip-hop - both doing the vinyl remixes, reissues & compilations for the "name" artists - and also CD's and vinyl for the huge independent underground hip-hop scene here.  Like any genre it has its good and bad - for some reason though I can enjoy working on mediocre hip-hop more than I enjoy working on mediocre rock.  I guess for me there's a a few very direct sonic goals when working in it - i.e. just how massive can we make this kick drum? - with just the minimal elements of vox, kick, snare, and then the "rest" - so you can really go in there and shape the elements to go for "maximum impact."  Dealing with a lot of stuff recorded in project studios you also get to have the mastering make a real big noticeable improvement which I find rewarding also.  

To me gangsta rap is kind of like watching a horror movie.  You either enjoy this kind of stuff or you don't - a lot of time it's real cheesy but sometimes if the flow is happening it can give you the same kind of adrenaline rush as a George Romero flick.  Personally I much prefer listening to politically conscious lyrics like the PE or Disposible Heroes stuff from back in the day - but I'd still rather hear the gangsta stuff than fatuous lyrics about how much bling someone has.  There are a number of people writing great stuff still though - check out Nas or Kanye West's "Jesus Walks" to hear some actual seriously intelligent lyrics.  But while mastering this stuff I just am completely focused on sonic issues - so even if the lyrics are meaningless strings of curse words I can still enjoy working on it.

As far as lateness to sessions:
for me I usually give people a "grace period" of around a half an hour as the traffic & the MTA in NY can definitely put a hamper in people's plans occasionally.  If I have unattended work pending and the client hasn't arrived within an hour I'll just start on that and make the client wait a few minutes while I finish the thought if they come in so that my time hasn't been wasted.   Beyond that - I make it clear from the time the session is booked that the clock starts at the time they've asked for and if they are late (while at our discretion we generally give a bit of a break to the client) will bill accordingly.  Getting a deposit in order to hold a time is also extremely important so that there are no problems with sessions where the client does not show up for or does not give adequate notice of a cancellation.

About 90% of the work I do is unattended sessions though so the issue doesn't come up all that often.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[OTR-jkl]

I did a hip-hop CD last fall and could barely stand to make it through the thing. The lyrics were just horrendous. I tried to ignore them and focus only on the overall sound but that was impossible to do.

It was an unattended session and I made sure that what I did was right on so I'd never have to hear it again. After picking up the ref, the client called an raved about it - what a relief!!!

No more - unless its clean...

[zmix]

TotalSonic wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 11:29

About 90% of the work I do is unattended sessions... Best regards, Steve Berson

That's a healthy way to look at the situation....

[Ronny]

JayTea wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 10:53

Ronny wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 08:31  I don't do a lot of hip-hop, no more than 10 cd's a year... I almost enjoyed working on hip-hop for the first time. We don't do much Rap/Hip-Hop either, it's just not our thing, so we refer to others. I think we did only one this year, and it was a religious group. I assume there are ME's that really do dig it, and specialize in it. Peace

Just like the forensics, I can't afford to turn the work down, JT. If I was in Austin or NY, maybe I could pick and choose.


I'd much rather work on rock or country, Steve, the hip-hop beats get monotonous real fast to me. I don't understand half the lyrics and the mixing is seldom stellar with the wannabe Tupacs that I get. But, I'm an old fart and I remember my father who was into swing and jazz, telling me the same thing about rock and roll, when it first became popular.  

[Jerry Tubb]

Ronny wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 14:39

Just like the forensics, I can't afford to turn the work down, JT. If I was in Austin or NY, maybe I could pick and choose.

Ronny,

You're one of the most knowledgeable members of the forum.

I certainly wasn't trying to offend you.

Austin certainly wasn't handed to us on a silver platter, we paid our dues big time.

All I am saying is that one makes choices about priorities.

Peace

[turtletone]

Hip hop is the same as any other kind of music besides the lateness. The longest I've waited for a session was 4 days, it was a hip hop session. On one session I played poker for a week before we started working. I won $2500 bucks in poker and got paid $7000 on top of that for just being around. Ahhh, those were the days. Puffy personally bought my jeep just on being late.

[Ronny]

JayTea wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 17:39

Ronny wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 14:39 Just like the forensics, I can't afford to turn the work down, JT. If I was in Austin or NY, maybe I could pick and choose. Ronny, You're one of the most knowledgeable members of the forum. I certainly wasn't trying to offend you. Austin certainly wasn't handed to us on a silver platter, we paid our dues big time. All I am saying is that one makes choices about priorities. Peace

I took no offense to your comment JT, I was just mentioning how it is to try to master in dinktown, USA.

I really liked Austin when I was there, too.

[MT Groove]

Over 90% of work I get is hip hop/rap so I know all too well what it's like when it comes to showing up on time.  However, most of my work is unattended as well so if I have a client show up late, I just work on something else in the meantime.  I get situations such as a client book time for noon.  2PM comes, I call them.  The're just on their way from New Orleans to Houston.    And when they show up, the bring an entourage with them that just sits around being bored.  

As for explicit lyrics, I'm so used to them by now I don't even hear them....that is unless I'm doing a radio edit and gotta make 10 edits within the first 2 bars.  

Plus, I get so much stuff recorded in their own studios where meters pegging red is the norm, and they want it just as loud or louder than the current hit on the shelf.  

Well this stuff puts food on the table for me, so I can't turn down work.

[mikepecchio]

Some of these anecdotes hit home, as about 1/3 of the mastering Ive done in recent months has been hip hop or gansta rap. I did a single for some Bostonian rappers a few days ago that really takes the cake as the most violent, irresponsible lyrics I've had to deal with.  giving shout outs to "the killers in the streets", etc.  condoning the discharging of firearms in bus stations (then sampled gun shots), etc.  I can usually focus on the beat and the sonics, but what kills me is the vocal-only mixes for 12" singles. there's no ignoring the lyrics when there's nothing but lyrics!!

Whats a little strange is I have yet to have any of these clients attend. not a single one.  And some of them are VERY big names too.

mike p

[Jerry Tubb]

mikepecchio wrote on Tue, 26 July 2005 09:17

I did a single for some Bostonian rappers a few days ago that really takes the cake as the most violent, irresponsible lyrics I've had to deal with.

Doesn't the degree of lyrical "shock value" determine whether the "artist" gets noticed & signed ?  ... & influences the number of CDs sold to bored suburban kids ?  

[Bob Boyd]

I have both turned work down and asked clients to not to use my name in the credits when I felt the lyrical content got out of control.  Plently of other facilities they can go to and plenty of other work I can do.

[Ed Littman]

 I recently did a hip hop(for lack of a better term) cd for a client (live musicians & varied grooves & feels). They needed a clean & uncut version. uncut was pretty xrated but not violent like gangter rap etc.,  I must admit I found it very entertaning to do....but I guess my minds pretty much always in the gutter....
Ed

[TotalSonic]

Well - I'd say one of my definitions for success in this business is being able to have so much work coming in that you can just pick and choose which jobs you actually want to work on.  I just haven't been able to hit that goal just yet!

One of the hip-hop acts that had among the most explicit lyrics were also some of the nicest people I've met in this business and have turned into great long term clients - so sometimes you can't judge a book by its cover.  

It is disturbing to me though that so much of what gets promoted by the major labels just has fatuous lyrics with very little redeeming social value.  I think if you go below the surface you can find a lot of independent hip-hop with some very intense and intelligent messages - Michael Franti's Spearhead, Second 2 Last, El Fuma, Abstract Rude, all come to mind immediatelly as examples of this - and there are certainly others.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Eric Rudd]

Ed Littman wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 14:48

jazzius wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 06:20 What is it with hip hoppers and time keeping?.......! What you don't mean with a metranome? Ed

Isn't that a well-dressed and coifed short person?

Oh, wait, that's "metra-gnome."

Eric

[Mark Dann]

Ronny wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 14:31

I had quite a suprise mastering a hip hop cd earlier this week. Not one F, S or N word on the whole cd, no killing cops or hating whitey lyrics, I about had a heart attack. I don't do a lot of hip-hop, no more than 10 cd's a year, but this was the first one that I've ever done that was clean enough to play for young kids. Seems like one prime ingredient besides the bass and machined kick drum being twice as loud as everything else, is the x-rated lyrics. I almost enjoyed working on hip-hop for the first time. The one that I did last month had the F word in just about every sentence, which is par for the course with most of them.

I did a record with a rapper whose songs also had not one objectionable word in them.  Then one day he does a new track full of the stuff.  I asked him what's up?  He replied that if he didn't do it, he would not gain "respect".  There you go.