Topic: Opinions on this song... (Read 4035 times)

Thomas Lester · « **on:** July 20, 2005, 11:42:04 AM »

Hi guys... I have song for you to listen to. It from a band I'm producing. It's not mixed, yet, so I'm more asking about the song in general, although feel free to comment on sounds if anything jumps out at you. Do you find it catchy? Do you think it's sell-able in that "not-quite-pop" segment?

http://www.iakom.com/music/The_Best_I_Have_To_Offer_RM.mp3

I'm asking so I can advise them on where/how to market this kind of music.

-Tom

A.J. · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2005, 12:52:11 PM »

Hi Tom -

It sounds great. Nice job.

It sounds like it would fit college radio... or could it fit a Christian format? Just curious from the lyrics.

This song (in my mind) is screaming for harmonies. A nice 5th on the top in the choruses would really bump it up IMO.

Thanks,
A.J.

Thomas Lester · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:01:18 PM »

Thanks AJ. Yeah... it's a Christian song. I played with the double vocal in melodyne taking it up a 3rd and a 5th. Both sounded cool. I may pitch it to them and have them try it.

jimmyjazz · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:05:01 PM »

Well, I'm mighty tired of this genre, but I'd say these guys are in the ballpark of possible success based on what I'm hearing. It's passable Sum182 material.

The drummer sounds very, very good. That's a big start.

Overall, the playing is competent, if not downright good.

The singing drives me crazy, but that's the style. I'd put some 'verb or delay on that lead vocal, but as you say, this isn't a mix, so I don't know what your plans are. Why is it that this genre finds dry, affectation-free snotty vocals so endearing? I hear no soul.

How about some harmony vocals?

The chorus sounds like a prechorus.

I like the fact that there's a bridge.

I would cut the intro in half, and bring in the drums & band after the first time through the chord progression. Get right to the verse. It makes the "one two three four" tough to pull off, but for pity's sake, that's been done so much it's not necessary. (Ask Bono.)

The "Da Da Da" part should be 86ed, and now.

Pretty good job!

John Ivan · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:45:55 PM »

It sounds real nice man,, I had a thought about the chorus. Have a vocal sing unison an octave up ,,up to the break where he can be by himself again. just a thought, lot's of different stuff would work vocal wise..

Nice playin' though.

j.hall · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2005, 02:14:27 PM »

does it have a chance?

well, nickelback, brittney, backstreet boys, sum 41, etc....

they all made it and i haven't a clue how or why, so i'm obviously clueless as to what has a chance and what doesn't

for all i can tell, everyone on the planet that makes some sort of noise that can be considered music has a chance.

as for the production....i'd re-cut the guitars. everything else sounds workable, and i'm sure you'll make them happy in the end.....that's all that really matters.

Thomas Lester · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2005, 03:26:48 PM »

Hey J. -

Yeah... I plan on retracking the guitars. That's a PodXT and played by me. I'm going to take the band back to track with real amps and better tones.

Hey Ivan -

I think I'm digging your idea. I was thining of doing a 5th, but an octave may be even cooler.

Hey Jimmy -

I'm finding that people either totally love the "Da, da" part or they completely hate it. I'm on the fence because I really like the GTR part there, but the Da, Da doesn't do much for me. I'll play with it.

All -

I appriciate everyone's comments so far... if you have any other's, bring it on... good or bad. They have some more "punk" sounding stuff. A bit faster... more out of control. However... I singled this one out, because it's one of about 3-4 songs of theirs that seems like it'll have some radio potential and wanted to get feedback from the circle that I would consider my peers (that's you guys).

-Tom

floodstage · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2005, 05:37:01 PM »

j.hall wrote on Wed, 20 July 2005 13:14

.....

well, nickelback, brittney, backstreet boys, sum 41, etc....
they all made it and i haven't a clue how or why, so i'm obviously clueless as to what has a chance and what doesn't

for all i can tell, everyone on the planet that makes some sort of noise that can be considered music has a chance.

wahahahaha!!!!

(Not laughing at the song, just J's coment)

snicker.

he he he he!

drumsound · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2005, 10:50:15 PM »

Yes get some backing vocals on that thing ASAP>. The dada thing can stay if you get horns... I kid, put it in an instrument and cut it in half and maybe it'll work.

If you're going for the contemporary christian market the lyrics are not nearly blatant enough. From what I can tell from a few clients and some students if the lyrics don't say "Awesome God" "My Savior" or "Died For Me" several times, it'll never get play.

ebeam · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2005, 11:09:05 PM »

Sorry if I'm being mean, but this song really makes me cringe. I know everyone is trying to be nice, but come on. I have a semi-serious question though. Do you think these guys really love this music they are making? To me it sounds like total formulaic, reiterated garbage.....but if they are really feeling it I guess that is fine. I didn't even catch the Christian element at first because lyrics are never the first thing I listen to for some reason. However, given that context, I can't help but feel that they are just trying to repackage a popular sound in that vein to try and make some money. I guess that's cool.

Nevertheless, it sounds like you are doing a good job for them.

Incidentally, I actually thought the 'da da' was the only redeeming part of the song, since it was a bit different than what I was expecting.

Norwood · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2005, 01:09:40 AM »

I record a lot of christian bands and actually in the christian market there aren't a lot of decent bands in this genre. I agree for CCM radio its lyrically not blatant enough but some of the lines are a bit cheesy and trite which christian radio seems to like. As far as the song goes, you can't have a punk pop song without those sweet 1-3 harmonies... it just fits. Also if these really are just raw tracks, they are some of the best raw drums I have heard. Nice job altogether.

Thomas Lester · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2005, 06:51:04 AM »

OK... Yes... this sounds a bit "blah" performance wise. They rock a lot harder live and I hope to capture that...

I have a confession, though..... I programmed the drums.....

-Tom

jimmyjazz · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2005, 10:07:34 AM »

Thomas Lester wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 06:51

I have a confession, though..... I programmed the drums.....

!!!!!

No wonder they sounded steady! So the drums are programmed and the guitarist is you on a POD . . . tell me, is there a band?

John Ivan · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2005, 10:15:36 AM »

Thomas Lester wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 05:51

OK... Yes... this sounds a bit "blah" performance wise. They rock a lot harder live and I hope to capture that...

I have a confession, though..... I programmed the drums.....

-Tom

Really?? Wow, I didn't hear that. What did you use for samples?

Some hear know how I feel about this sort of thing and this tune is proof that the art is going to die. It sounds like a young energetic rock drummer but it's not. This means that ANOTHER young energetic drummer has no reason to work hard at playing. People think I'm nuts when I say this will eventually kill the art of playing musical instruments but, there just plain old fucking wrong. It will..

As a producer, I have threatened to erase all the work, take no money and go home when folks want to use machines instead of players.. I just don't understand it.

I play drum kit, Bass< guitar and my key board chops are not what they should be but, I can work stuff up on the piano and work a Hammond. Sometimes I feel like closing the door and just saying,, OK, I play music for myself,by myself period. I don't need one other person to make a great rock album. I can write it engineer it play it and sing it..

The fact that I was fooled into thinking this was a drummer is so so very sad,,,really really sad......

Thomas Lester · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2005, 11:08:36 AM »

jimmyjazz wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 10:07

Thomas Lester wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 06:51

I have a confession, though..... I programmed the drums.....

!!!!!

No wonder they sounded steady! So the drums are programmed and the guitarist is you on a POD . . . tell me, is there a band?

Hehe.... yeah... I do this kind of thing to work up the music. Then once the arrangements are worked out, the band rehearses and we cut the tracks live with real instruments.

The drums are DFH Superior drums from toontrack. Of course.... you have to know what a drummer SHOULD sound like and play like to program like that... it's not going to sound that way straight out of the box.

jimmyjazz · « **Reply #15 on:** July 21, 2005, 11:25:10 AM »

So it's your band, not just "a band you're producing"? You should have said so if this is true. Can't say why, really, but the whole thing feels kinda sneaky now.

John Ivan · « **Reply #16 on:** July 21, 2005, 11:25:17 AM »

Thomas,,

Let me say I'm sorry I went off like that.. I'm very glad to hear that a real band will be playing on this stuff... I'm to sensitive about this subject sometimes and I need to not jump the gun and make assumptions..

When I look around and see more and more music leaving our schools and more and more "hits" with almost no musicians on them, I tend to wonder if it's all coming to an end.

The truth is, I use Groove agent when I compose stuff to feed our drummer ideas. I do however refuse to make records with machines on them. This might be childish but it is the truth. I can't help how I feel about all this.

Again, sorry for showing my ass.

Ivan.......

Thomas Lester · « **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2005, 12:28:56 PM »

jimmyjazz wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 11:25

So it's your band, not just "a band you're producing"? You should have said so if this is true. Can't say why, really, but the whole thing feels kinda sneaky now.

No... I'm just producing them. However... as producer, I often times work out the arrangements. I'll help with parts. Sometimes I'll play on stuff... sometimes that means I run around the live room screaming and jumping around to build energy. Sometimes... that's deciding to delay tracking while I find the drummer a good drum teacher!!!

I'm fairly new to producing... I'm a recordist. So... I just do whatever seems natural to me. Right or wrong... my goal is a good record.

I'm sorry if I came off sneaky. That wasn't my intention. I was asking about the song... if it was catchy... not "isn't this the greatest drummer in the world" or "aren't I a god when it comes to drum sounds". Only reason I mentioned it was it became a focus of a couple of posts.

Hey Ivan - No worries. I'm in the same boat with you. As a matter of fact, I help out at my kid's elementary school and come and talk to the kids about music. I also contribute to music in school programs.

Thanks again to everyone....

-Tom

jimmyjazz · « **Reply #18 on:** July 21, 2005, 01:13:36 PM »

Gotcha. No worries.

Can the band play?

Thomas Lester · « **Reply #19 on:** July 21, 2005, 03:03:58 PM »

None of them are virtuosos, but they can play. Live.... they are fantastic. Energetic and exciting. I'm just going to have to squeeze it out of them in the studio....

-Tom

TheViking · « **Reply #20 on:** July 22, 2005, 08:43:31 AM »

Thom,

This song feels good... the arrangement is pretty solid. I produce a lot of this same kind of stuff so I know what you're going for here.

One suggestion on the arrangement and it's not really a huge deal thing and probably doesn't make that big of a difference but... the bridge after the second chorus seems weird. Like that transition between the second chorus into the bridge... I don't think you need to go back to the intro lick there. Just figure out a way to launch into that bridge right out of the chorus. Either drop that 'best I have to offer line' or have him sing that line over the bridge as it comes in. Vocal breaks like that are cool, but you've already done one after the first chorus and I think this song needs some 'distractions in it that set the sections of the songs apart and create dynamics. Just try it out - I don't know how it will feel - do what feels the best. This was just something I noticed as listening.

The intro lick is your hook - you've established the hook a lot in this song (maybe too much - in my opinion, but it's a good hook so you're kinda safe using it as much as you do - it's ear candy). Listen to the song and ask yourself if you're overusing the hook - you don't want to wear people out of it. Not saying you did - just giving you some thoughts to chew on about the arrangement and production of the song.

You also could think about bringing in some new elements into the second verse to set it apart from the first verse. Even if it's just another guitar playing something extremely minimalistic. Something that gives it some added movement, dynamic and forward motion.

BTW - the 'dat-da-da' section is awesome! Crowds love that stuff - especially if they have the CD before hand and know it's coming up. It's a 'moment' in the song that creates an opportunity for the band to really engage the audience in their live show.

I don't mean to step on toes and I hope this input and opinion is taken as just that. There's a hundred 'right ways' to produce a song. THis is just some objective feedback. I hope it helps. Good luck!

The Vike
www.vikingrecording.com

Thomas Lester · « **Reply #21 on:** July 22, 2005, 10:38:42 AM »

Hey Vike -

This is great feedback. I really appriciate it. I'll definitely try some of those ideas out. Especially adding a new element in the 2nd chorus.

-Tom

canada · « **Reply #22 on:** July 22, 2005, 10:57:05 AM »

The bridge is totally wack!

Also, can you make the guy not sing like a thirty year old pretending he's a ten year old? Way tired.

Otherwise, it sounds good. It uses that same "oh wow, this is a modern pop song" chord progression that most hits from 1994-2005 have used but that's par for the course at this point.

Otherwise, those drums sound pretty amazing for being a drum machine. I'd dirty them up, put them in a room, and pump up the guitars. If you want the modern trendy sound, I'd switch in a ringy piccolo snare.

I would definately hear a different guitar sound in the chorus, maybe doubled, so the chorus really pops.

I will let you know that using a Christian reference is definately going to slate you into a certain category of kid... Most kids bullshit meter pegs when they hear this kind of thing...

But this song is competent and a great demo.

Red Tape · « **Reply #23 on:** July 25, 2005, 10:32:25 AM »

I might be imagining this, but am I hearing some tuning on the vocal? If so, is it deliberately noticeable?

Thomas Lester · « **Reply #24 on:** July 26, 2005, 06:04:20 PM »

Red Tape wrote on Mon, 25 July 2005 10:32

I might be imagining this, but am I hearing some tuning on the vocal? If so, is it deliberately noticeable?

Yeah... you are.... The guy who tracked the vocal burned some auto-tune stuff, that wasn't so smooth. I do some tuning when needed, but I use Melodyne, which is a lot more subtle and natural sounding.

I'm not overly worried about it as we are really just working all this out. I probably won't keep anything from these writing/arranging sessions.

-Tom

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Author Topic: Opinions on this song... (Read 4035 times)