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Author Topic: new Sony Limiter  (Read 5723 times)

Glenn Bucci

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Re: new Sony Limiter
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2006, 08:05:36 am »

compasspnt wrote on Thu, 09 February 2006 12:54

UnderTow wrote on Thu, 09 February 2006 12:27



But hey, if you are going to stick with the L2 without comparing with the (cheaper) competition, thats fine by me.  




Or the (better) competition, regardless of its cost.



Hey thats not true. Right now I am in the middle of paying off debt that I have. So I am very careful on what I buy right now. Wavelab 6 is the first thing I need to buy and some money I am making in the studio will pay for it. Only $399 since I already own Cubase. The L2 has given me great results for years (and many others here) and it has a decent dither built in. So I am not going to jump on every thread about new great gear and just start buying stuff. After Wavelab 6, and a matched pair of mic's for acoustic guitar, then I will look into things besides the L2.

In regards to the Sony Limiter, I could not even try it if I wanted to, becuase I run Cubase and don't have a Powercore card.
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astroshack

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Re: new Sony Limiter
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2006, 11:30:59 am »

AndreasN wrote on Sat, 11 February 2006 20:49

UnderTow wrote on Thu, 09 February 2006 16:30


Look at what 3dB of limiting on a sinewave does in the L2:
http://home.casema.nl/ajohnston/limiting/


Someone with the knowledge of FFT's, sines, processing and sample points care to step up and explain?




This is related to the thoeretically infinite non-linearities generated by limiters. What you see in the graphs is most likely fold-down aliasing from non-linearities which exceed the Nyquist limit and are therefore "folded down" (also known as downward aliasing) into the "legal" frequency bandwidth specified by Nyquist.

This is why you see less distortion in the Elephant when running at 4Fs (ie upsampled to 192KHz) - due to the increased frequency response, less downward aliasing occurs. And, there is presumably a filter deployed during the downsampling to further deal with aliasing distortion.

Most aliasing distortion is regarded as un-musical (ie not euphonic) but the graphs cannot confirm this. The only real way you can tell which limiter sounds better than another is by ABX listening.

FWIW, I like Elephant when used in 4X upsampling mode. I also like the Precision Limiter and TC Brickwall Limiter. Looking forward to hearing the Oxford.

Sean  

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Sean Diggins
The Tone Room

AndreasN

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Re: new Sony Limiter
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2006, 01:34:49 pm »

Thanks for the clarification!

Sorry for jumping on quick conclusions.


It really IS that bad?? Ripley, I'm scared!
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Jules

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Re: new Sony Limiter
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2006, 07:56:21 pm »

Re: new Sony Limiter

I am glad of the long review of Compaspoints

Short Jules review..

Louder & nicer

Very Happy

brett

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Re: new Sony Limiter
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2006, 08:00:23 am »

I used the Sony limiter and dynamics demos to do a home master job of a pretty ruff mix. Even being an amateur I turned the song into a great sounding track in minutes with them on the bus. I liked being able to adjust the mix with these on the bus.

The limiter is way more musical sounding than an L2 and the dynamics has a limiter built into it as well. I used the compressor with the side chain to remove the bass from the trigger, and the soft clip limiter engaged with the oxford limiter at the end with a good amount of the enhancer on. Turned my little techno track into a pro sounding record with a nice tight bottom. I have played it on many systems and it sounds great on all.

I only wish I was staying with Protools but I am selling it off to get a new g5 and logic pro 7.2. I am interested to hear the new waves SSL plugs. The Sony oxford dynamics had that SSL finish to it.

I think they are the best plug-ins I have used for dynamics control and bus compression.  

If they do a powercore version of the limiter, I may do that. Will a powercore run on a new G5? firewire?
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Andy Krehm

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Re: new Sony Limiter
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2006, 09:31:56 am »

Revelation wrote on Sat, 11 February 2006 08:05

compasspnt wrote on Thu, 09 February 2006 12:54

UnderTow wrote on Thu, 09 February 2006 12:27



But hey, if you are going to stick with the L2 without comparing with the (cheaper) competition, thats fine by me.  




Or the (better) competition, regardless of its cost.



Hey thats not true. Right now I am in the middle of paying off debt that I have. So I am very careful on what I buy right now. Wavelab 6 is the first thing I need to buy and some money I am making in the studio will pay for it. Only $399 since I already own Cubase. The L2 has given me great results for years (and many others here) and it has a decent dither built in. So I am not going to jump on every thread about new great gear and just start buying stuff. After Wavelab 6, and a matched pair of mic's for acoustic guitar, then I will look into things besides the L2.

In regards to the Sony Limiter, I could not even try it if I wanted to, becuase I run Cubase and don't have a Powercore card.

I've seen a lot of L2 trashing on the mastering webboards but nobody (probably on purpose) seems to be explaining how to use it. The "secret" is that it works very well if you only use 1.0 to 2.0 of the threshold setting.

Now you are going to say that you can't get the program loud enough. So in order to use the L2 very lightly, one has to get the gain hot enough before the ADC so that the L2 is not over used.

I can't speak for plug-in mastering guys but I get my volume by stepping up through 3 to 4 units of high-end tube gear (usual culprits, Manleys, Tubetech, Requisite), hit an analog peak limiter and get competitive volume with more dynamics.

If I need a little more help, I'll use my Weiss DS1 in parallel or straight compressor mode, say a 2.00:1 ratio with 1 db of gain reduction. I can also add a bit of compression with any of my tube units. Unless its the latest emo/screamo, my approach is to finess the levels upward.

I used to be a plug-ins only guy in the early days and also over did the L1/L2, thus causing distortion as described.

However, hitting the L2 lightly, it sounds just as "transparent" as my TC 6000 Brickwall limiter and for loud music, is almost always my first choice.

I have hitched my horse to Mac so I am envious of those of you with choices that only work in the PC environment but using the L2 as described above works very well for me and many other experienced mastering engineers.

Andy,

Silverbirch Productions

Jerry Tubb

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Re: new Sony Limiter
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2006, 10:19:38 am »

Andy Krehm wrote on Mon, 27 March 2006 08:31

I've seen a lot of L2 trashing on the mastering webboards but nobody (probably on purpose) seems to be explaining how to use it. The "secret" is that it works very well if you only use 1.0 to 2.0 of the threshold setting.


99% of the time, I leave my L2 (hardware) set to 3dB on the threshold, and it works very well... but only "hit it" 1 or 2dB. Once in a blue moon, if someone wants it "Ultra Loud", I may turn it to 4dB, not often. I'm sure we all have our favorite settings.

I'm pleased that there are good sounding alternatives (to Waves) out there... the Sony, the UAD, and others... may add them to our "bag of tricks" at some point. Although Waves is the pioneer of plug-ins, they can be a little arrogant at times... WUP, iLok policy, etc.

Andy Krehm wrote on Mon, 27 March 2006 08:31

I have hitched my horse to Mac so I am envious of those of you with choices that only work in the PC environment...


I'm not envious of our PC brothers at all.... been a proud Mac user for 20+ years... we have 10 of them currently in use... but I did add one "utility" PC last year for Plextools... I'm beginning to see, that being able to function in both worlds, is the smart way to go.

"Well They Call It Stormy Monday..."  T-Bone Walker

Cheers
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Terra Nova Mastering
Celebrating 20 years of Mastering!

Nigel Jopson

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Re: new Sony Limiter
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2006, 05:44:45 pm »

Good news for Powercore users:  I saw the limiter running on a Powercore compact on the Sony stand at Paris AES.  Apparently it is "in Beta" ... but seemed to be working fine with Nuendo.
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Ben F

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Re: new Sony Limiter
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2006, 01:30:49 am »

I think that there is not one 'magic' limiter, as indeed there is no one 'magic' EQ or compressor that fits every job.

They all sound slightly different. The L2 puts bite in the top end and sucks out the lowmids (slightly)...so the solution is give the track less top end and more lowmids than normal, wack it through the L2 and hey presto, the L2 'sound' is tamed. I personally like the L2 sound on hip-hop and some electronic music, dislike it on acoustic rock, jazz, but then the Weiss DSP1 is almost totally transparent for this style of music. But once again not completely transparent.

There's no quick fix, no 'one' solution, just listening continously and learning equipments pros and cons. I honestly think that limiting is the least difficult part of mastering, yet is talked about the most!
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cerberus

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Re: new Sony Limiter
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2006, 09:18:31 am »

Ben F wrote on Thu, 25 May 2006 01:30

 I honestly think that limiting is the least difficult part of mastering, yet is talked about the most!


not easy for me, so i think i know why we talk about it so much... but if you want to talk more about elliptical eq, that would be cool.

jeff dinces
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