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[J.J. Blair]

Zmix, I wasn't bagging on the poll.  I think the poll is awesome.  I just was commenting on the fact that it is turning into another autobiographical thread.  LOL.

[drumsound]

You forgot "got a job at a really small joint with a couple ADATS and a Mackie and got to work!

Learn, grow, upgrade, repeat.  

Eventually buy out the owner and move the room to a nicer joint.

[Bill Mueller]

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 11 July 2005 15:13

Zmix, I wasn't bagging on the poll.  I think the poll is awesome.  I just was commenting on the fact that it is turning into another autobiographical thread.  LOL.

I was born a young black man.

Bill

[wwittman]

Hey If I COULD have just checked a box, i would have done... but nothing perfectly fit.

[jfrigo]

wwittman wrote on Mon, 11 July 2005 19:10

Hey If I COULD have just checked a box

or several...

[Curve Dominant]

zmix wrote on Mon, 11 July 2005 01:39

In the article I cited, Mr St. Croix laments the lack of mentoring and the overabundance of people who, simply by virtue of purchasing a DAW, are de facto recording engineers.

Why should that be "lamented"??

I've been recording lots of local talent who:
1) Would never otherwise be recorded because they cannot afford to book "real" studios, and/or
2) Have recorded in "real" studios and found the results unusable.

...And got mentoring to help me achieve results for those folks, right here and elsewhere on the Net, from people like GM, Jules, Fletcher, W. Whittman, Fibes, B. Olhsson, Rail Jon, Dave Reitzes, John Paterno, Craig Anderton, Dave Frangioni, Terry Manning, Dave Pensado, Charles Dye, Bruce Swedien, Mike Shipley, Ross Hogarth, Brad Blackwood, JJ Blair, Lucey, Nika Aldrich, Slipperman, Mixerman, Recorderman, Tom Cram, Dave Derr, James Demeter...et al...

So, I fail to see the problem here. The equipment works, and the information resources are readily available. One simply needs to take the extra step of getting talent in front of the mics.

The present era is a virtual dream world of recording and mentoring, yet this Mr St. Croix "laments" it.

What am I missing here??

[zmix]

Eric Vincent wrote on Tue, 12 July 2005 02:04

The present era is a virtual dream world of recording and mentoring, yet this Mr St. Croix "laments" it. What am I missing here??

Settle down there, Bevis... You may have a point here, but why not read his column and see what he had to say first?

[Curve Dominant]

zmix wrote on Tue, 12 July 2005 14:33

Eric Vincent wrote on Tue, 12 July 2005 02:04 The present era is a virtual dream world of recording and mentoring, yet this Mr St. Croix "laments" it. What am I missing here?? Settle down there, Bevis... You may have a point here, but why not read his column and see what he had to say first?

Huh huh huh...he said, "DOWN THERE" huh huh huh!

[zmix]

 

[Otitis Media]

sdevino wrote on Sun, 10 July 2005 06:32

Took 4 years of electronics in High School, 4 more years in the Navy. Was recruited to operate a sound system in a 3000 seat theatre (High School) in 9th grade. This theatre was used for school shows but also for The NYC Metropolitan Opera, The Eglevsky Ballet, The LI Philarmonic Orchestra and many many mid sized touring acts. Since my friend and I were the house sound techs we got to help all the traveling sound engineers that visited with these groups. Then taking recording classes using 8 track 1 inch, and getting to hang because I could fix the Fairchild board they had AND understood the new and emerging digital technology. College was all about Computer Science, EE and Physics so I could earn a real living when I got married, Followed by 10 years of running my own small studio and continueing to design and run sound for local and theatre and small clubs. Other than that I just read about shit here

And I have done some engineering at Steve's studio and learned from him - as well as cutting my teeth on audio post with a film/video background.  No choice applies to me, either!  

[Eric Bridenbaker]

drumsound wrote on Mon, 11 July 2005 15:30

You forgot "got a job at a really small joint with a couple ADATS and a Mackie and got to work! Learn, grow, upgrade, repeat.   Eventually buy out the owner and move the room to a nicer joint.

Yep, Same!!
EB

[jnorman]

i was an apprentice under hal ellis (he was the guitarist for 'john fred and the playboys' - judy in disguise) at deep south studios in baton rouge, while i was majoring in electrical engineering at LSU.

[RickRhino]

played guitar in a synth pop band,
recorded at a downtown studio didn't like the results
recorded at a mid-size studio great work low price
singer in the band got a credit card and got some home recording
gear (adat,24 mixer,monitors,comp,ect.)
took a workshop at a local studio,got mentored by the owner.
went to a popular "recording school"
came back to my mentor's studio and got staff engineer position
that sums it up
now I at days I freelance and work at a music store

[henchman]

Eric Vincent wrote on Mon, 11 July 2005 23:04

zmix wrote on Mon, 11 July 2005 01:39 In the article I cited, Mr St. Croix laments the lack of mentoring and the overabundance of people who, simply by virtue of purchasing a DAW, are de facto recording engineers. Why should that be "lamented"?? I've been recording lots of local talent who: 1) Would never otherwise be recorded because they cannot afford to book "real" studios, and/or 2) Have recorded in "real" studios and found the results unusable. So, I fail to see the problem here. The equipment works, and the information resources are readily available. One simply needs to take the extra step of getting talent in front of the mics. The present era is a virtual dream world of recording and mentoring, yet this Mr St. Croix "laments" it. What am I missing here??

Again, your inexperience shines in your response. You fail to see what you are missing, because you really don't understand the concept of learnign form people who are really good at what they do, by sitting next to them day in and day out.
Any idiot can set up a mic in front of talent and press record. But there is a bit more to it than that. You will of course disagree.

I too think it's a shame to see the lack of mentoring. And reading about stuff on an internet forum is not the same as being in the session.

What you also fail to realise, again because of a lack of experience, is that bands who couldn't get into a "real" studio, were often recorded by those working as assistants, using downtime in the studio. At least that's how it worked for me. Arne at the Plant never bitched or questioned me when I brought in a band to do a demo in studio downtime.

People end up with unsuable recordings for a variety of reasons.  Personally I think that the quality of audio engineering is reaching abysmal low levels.
If seen people walk away form a $500k recording session with crap results.

[rankus]

henchman wrote on Fri, 15 July 2005 22:51

People end up with unsuable recordings for a variety of reasons.  Personally I think that the quality of audio engineering is reaching abysmal low levels. If seen people walk away form a $500k recording session with crap results.

I run a small "demo studio" (in one room and broadcast quality in the other room) and yes I have the multi-generational education..... But I must say that in the last year I have had at least 4 bands come through that have been to the local "big" studio (Greenhouse) and have come away with unusable even disasterous recordings.... (And we are not talking low rate intern recordings here.  These were done by the "name" fellows, for big bucks!)

All these acts have commented on how much better my prosumer recordings sound than the that "big" console "big engineer" over there....  They ask "why".... I say: "Because they have their formula recording style and did not bother to actually listen to the bands sonic message, and they forced their template on you...."

These bands also comment on how uncomfortable they felt at the bigger studios, and that they felt that they were being pushed in directions musicaly that they did not feel represented their band.....These bands all felt that they were being looked down upon in one way or another.... (really talented bands by the way)


I suppose my point is that the "tech school grads" have been taught that "this is the way we do it" and are shown how to record a pop or hip hop record by rote, and then go out into the world and force that template onto music regardless of style...

Are we losing the ability to be CREATIVE in the studio?  I think so.... specialy in the bigger joints...  The schools need to teach that the music comes first, not the template..

Can you imagine what would happen if a band like The Ramones had hooked up with one of todays producers?  :  " Your singer will have to have some lessons, and we will need to autotune and comp, and the drummer sucks so we will use a studio drummer, and possibly have Slash in to play guitar leads.... The Ramones would never have had a fucking chance in todays production driven market!  Listen to the fucking bands man! Let teh music speak! .... Rant out..

PS: I am doing demos by choice, because I can experiment as much as I like, work with young talent, spend more time on MUSIC etc.  ..... Love it!My favorite band lately, was 16 years old playing southern rock that sounded as good as a "blues legend" that I recorded a few days earlier.... It keeps me young!!!