R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Total Members Voted: 0


Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9]   Go Down

Author Topic: How did you learn audio engineering?  (Read 18051 times)

Curve Dominant

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 774
Re: How did you learn audio engineering?
« Reply #120 on: August 10, 2005, 12:20:00 am »

John Sorensen wrote on Sun, 07 August 2005 14:31

I think that it bodes well for any technically competent person to take a page from the Zen Buddhist concept of "the beginner's mind". I am no expert, nor am I at all knowledgeable about such things. If somebody can jump in and illuminate this subject please do. According to my limited knowledge, the Zen beginner's mind fosters and unrestricted, open, innocent and innovative approach to issues as they present themselves. It suggests that we see things clearly and deeply when we approach things with a mind that is open to possibility and unrestricted by preconceptions. With an open, refreshed and continually refreshing approach we go beyond the restrictions imposed by the body of knowledge deemed correct by our peers and forerunners. It is, however, an advanced stage or step towards enlightenment in your field, or even life (which sounds frightfully lofty, doesn't it?). It is NOT a proxy for being STUPID. It is bassackwards to say, hey, look at me, I don't know how to find my own ass with a map - I'm innovating!

I respectfully submit that those who think they are ahead of the curve cause they don't know what they're doing that they've got the process of accomplishment spun around backwards. Learn the operation of your tools in some detail, and keep your mind open to the possibilities that exist beyond the bounds of conventional knowledge or standard practice.


I concur.

Wassily Kandinsky had specific ideas in this regard, which he set forth in two books he wrote entitled, "Concerning The Spiritual In Art," and "Point And Line To Plane." His basic concept was that one could achieve truth of essence in artistic expression through a state of simultaneous control and abandon. That is: One has total control due to grasp of "old master technique," and yet can let that go (abandon) in utilization of the "Zen beginners mind"...let it go, but still "have it there" so to speak. It's a dicey concept which one can only truly grasp with practice and experience. (Kandinsky crystallized this concept with his painting "Courbe Dominante" which I named my company after.)

In sports, this state is known as "being in the zone." If you've ever scored a goal in a soccer game and don't exactly remember what happened after the fact, you've experienced this.

Quote:

At some point the technical operation of a workstation/console/whatever is second nature - so you can think beyond that stuff towards being creative.


That's being "in the zone" in our craft, but I personally don't like to get too "zoned out" in this regard, because there is an artist I'm ultimately collaborating with, and each artist's needs are totally unique. And each song is unique. So the technique has to remain REALLY flexible if one seeks to truly extract the core essence of those factors.

Quote:

It's not the other way around (ie. "I'm creative because I don't know shite")


Agreed.

qtc3

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
Re: How did you learn audio engineering?
« Reply #121 on: August 12, 2005, 04:28:09 pm »

sixtiksix wrote on Wed, 03 August 2005 11:25

invisibl wrote on Wed, 03 August 2005 08:26


Knowing more than you need to know puts you at 100Mph with a tank full o gas. Puts you in an unchallengable situation when confronted by a drama or issue.

click


I am glad you clicked.


You're right of course.

I have never been in this situation except maybe eating a sandwich or picking my nose.



  Buddy, you're picking your nose all wrong!   Its less in the first joint of the finger and more in the second, not to mention that a little more curvature of the finger will result in a much cleaner slicing of the hardened mucus.   Are you still using a nail clipper?   You must not have taken classes or interned with anyone good because anyone with any *real* knowledge knows that you should only use emery boards so as to reduce NPN (nasal passage nicking) during the dragging phase.   Go on down to the Detroit Institute of Picking and attend the Sanding The Interior Cuticle Kamp, it'll change your whole life!

  To stay on-thread:  How did I learn engineering?   Badly!  Very Happy
Logged
Seth Koster

Ronny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2739
Re: How did you learn audio engineering?
« Reply #122 on: August 12, 2005, 07:25:39 pm »

qtc3 wrote on Fri, 12 August 2005 16:28

sixtiksix wrote on Wed, 03 August 2005 11:25

invisibl wrote on Wed, 03 August 2005 08:26


Knowing more than you need to know puts you at 100Mph with a tank full o gas. Puts you in an unchallengable situation when confronted by a drama or issue.

click


I am glad you clicked.


You're right of course.

I have never been in this situation except maybe eating a sandwich or picking my nose.



  Buddy, you're picking your nose all wrong!   Its less in the first joint of the finger and more in the second, not to mention that a little more curvature of the finger will result in a much cleaner slicing of the hardened mucus.   Are you still using a nail clipper?   You must not have taken classes or interned with anyone good because anyone with any *real* knowledge knows that you should only use emery boards so as to reduce NPN (nasal passage nicking) during the dragging phase.   Go on down to the Detroit Institute of Picking and attend the Sanding The Interior Cuticle Kamp, it'll change your whole life!

  To stay on-thread:  How did I learn engineering?   Badly!  Very Happy


Not as badly as you learned to pick your nose.  

A quick and precise pinky gouge is all you need with even the stubbornest of boogers. Laughing
Logged
------Ronny Morris - Digitak Mastering------
---------http://digitakmastering.com---------
----------Powered By Experience-------------
-------------Driven To Perfection---------------

Mr Darling

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 42
Re: How did you learn audio engineering?
« Reply #123 on: August 14, 2005, 10:11:54 am »

I married into the business.

With no real interest in the music scene , was lucky enough to marry a successful singer / producer.
Spend some time seeing her work in a studio (mid level) , then when politics go tin the way of her studio time suggested we get our own demo studio.

After a couple of years we upgraded it to finished tracks - mix somewhere else and now it actually achieve reales ready tracks.

A  lot of mag reading, forums reading and a lot more spending time in the studio..
Logged
Danny Rotshtein - Engineer / producer
Jingles show reel

New Project Goddess of Destruction

K-dub

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
Re: How did you learn audio engineering?
« Reply #124 on: August 15, 2005, 10:36:17 pm »

This is great reading and would make wonderful TV ... with all the conflict and everything...

...but the basics remain.

KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE IS SOLID.

VOODOO AND MYSTICISM (A LA "TOUCHY FEELY") IS VAPOR.

Please never criticize people who have learned ... for their knowledge and experience should be truly valued ... for at their worst, they become the keepers of the knowledge ... and therefore may be future required/needed as teachers of the methods.

Yet still, one must distinguish between the learned and the talented, for both are mutually exclusive of the other.

There are people who know a lot, and yet somehow still cannot produce a good end product. There are people that don't have a lot of learning, yet can produce amazing results...however they do it.

Neither should criticize the other.

Best,

Kev.

Logged
Full length song tracks from "Long Days Passing Fast", my recent release, can now be listened to at KevinWhiteMusic.com

Jerry Tubb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2761
Re: How did you learn audio engineering?
« Reply #125 on: August 16, 2005, 02:10:57 am »

K-dub wrote on Mon, 15 August 2005 21:36

There are people who know a lot, and yet somehow still cannot produce a good end product. There are people that don't have a lot of learning, yet can produce amazing results...however they do it.... Neither should criticize the other.


and if they team up, the combination can be dangerously brilliant !
Logged
Terra Nova Mastering
Celebrating 20 years of Mastering!

maxim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5828
Re: How did you learn audio engineering?
« Reply #126 on: August 17, 2005, 12:46:22 am »

kev wrote:

"learned and the talented... are mutually exclusive of the other."

that's a big call
Logged

skygod

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35
Re: How did you learn audio engineering?
« Reply #127 on: September 18, 2006, 11:00:05 am »

mark fassett wrote on Mon, 25 July 2005 10:47

I learned in radio... started as a DJ, then learned how to do production on an old ampex 440.  

Learned music production by myself on an old teac 4 track reel to reel.  


Same here back in the early 70s when I was around 15 after listening to Beatles Hard Days Night over and over and over again. I was mesmerized by the vocal dynamics and overall mix. I began on one then two then four wonderful old TEAC 4 tracks, bouncing back and forth and back and forth and back and forth using minimal shure type vocal mics and pzm area type mics.  What a wonderful experience. I got hold of a used 8 channel mixer that didn't work very well, opened it up, figured the circuits out and troubleshooted the problems myself with a voltage meter and w/o schematic, bought the parts and soldered these in myself and went to town. Can't even remember the mfg now but it was some early Telefunkenish looking piece of shit.

I experimented for months on end moving instruments around, cabs around, drum kits around, pianos around, placing mics and recording in and from every crevice of the house, ceiling, walls, hallways, attics, outdoor deck, barn, open fields cranking Marshall plexi cabs to 10, in the car, van, etc. I learned the value of No EQ requirement later if done right at the front end, about natural reverb ambiance, plate echo ambiance in tiled bathrooms and bathhouses and developed the array of advanced multiple micing techniques by trail and error that I still use today 36 years later.  

By the time I got to a pro recording studio, when I was 19 or 20 I realized, I knew more about mixing and micing than the house engineers. Same at audio school I enrolled in later. I knew more about the physics of sound than my instructors and left laughing at them two weeks later. Man how I miss the wonder of it all of those early years. It was all novel and the world of audio was a new frontier and exciting. The world was my oyster.  Nothing was taken for granted, and there were no forums to whine in and let everybody solve your problem for you. Becoming an audio engineer meant being a fucking engineer, i.e., defining the problem, and working through it logically, incrementally, and systematically until a workable solution presented itself.  My my how things have changed over the years ... If you won't get your hands dirty in the trenches... then how will you ever know when they're clean after you wash'em?  Rolling Eyes

~skygod~
Logged
"The secret of the Universe is to be able to see things in different light ..." (John Stuart Mill)

Rantings of a blithering idiot ...
Hey I resent that remark ... I am NOT a Blitherer!

 

Thomas Lester

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 677
Re: How did you learn audio engineering?
« Reply #128 on: September 18, 2006, 12:08:13 pm »

I did 3 then 1.  I went to Full Sail where I learned the tech, how to soldier, read schematics, fix stuff, etiquette and how to learn (and how to go many days without sleep).

I then immediately moved to New York City where I got a job in a major studio that was doing major label projects 24x7 as a GA.  That's where the real learning began as I was occasionally allowed to stand perfectly silent in the back.  But I mostly ran tapes around town, got food, cleaned up after sessions, etc.

I then became a staff Assistant at that studio (Platinum Island) and started doing some freelance assistant work at a few other major studios in town.  That got me working for some really great engineers and producers...  the learning really got kicked up then.

Finally...  I got my break to engineer when an engineer's wife went into labor.  I ended up engineering that whole project and then became a staff engineer at Platinum.  I eventually went freelance.

The learning hasn't stopped.

Unlike many folks around here...  I'm a fan of good audio schools (note that I said good.  I'm talking a Full Sail, SAE, etc).  HOWEVER...  you are going to only get out of it what you put into it.  I have peers come out that were no better off when they graduated than when they went in.  Just like going to work for a studio,  you have to hussle your way into more labs.  Convince the lab instructors to let you in between labs to have a few more shots at calibrating the 24 tracks.  Ya know...  the same kind of things you do when you snag an internship at a major studio.

Then...  make sure more than ANYTHING that you know ETIQUETTE!!!!  I think that's the biggest thing I see today amongst the young assistants (if there is one) and engineers.  No one knows when to keep their mouth shut anymore.  No one knows how to wrap cables over-under.  No one knows how to properly document and recall.  All those things that I learned either in school or in a major studio.

Ok... that's my old man rant for the day (even though I'm only 34!)

-Tom

M Carter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 369
Re: How did you learn audio engineering?
« Reply #129 on: October 04, 2006, 01:07:03 pm »

I went to school.  Thought I knew everything.  Got out of school.  Got a job in a major facility.  Learned I knew nothing.

Starting learning stuff.  Haven't stopped yet.

Matt
Logged
Matt Carter
General Manager
Manhattan Sound Recording
www.manhattansoundrecording.com
(212) 564 8248

djui5

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1511
Re: How did you learn audio engineering?
« Reply #130 on: October 04, 2006, 03:47:12 pm »

Thomas Lester wrote on Mon, 18 September 2006 10:08



Unlike many folks around here...  I'm a fan of good audio schools (note that I said good.  I'm talking a Full Sail, SAE, etc).  HOWEVER...  you are going to only get out of it what you put into it.  I have peers come out that were no better off when they graduated than when they went in.  Just like going to work for a studio,  you have to hussle your way into more labs.  Convince the lab instructors to let you in between labs to have a few more shots at calibrating the 24 tracks.  Ya know...  the same kind of things you do when you snag an internship at a major studio.

Then...  make sure more than ANYTHING that you know ETIQUETTE!!!!  I think that's the biggest thing I see today amongst the young assistants (if there is one) and engineers.  No one knows when to keep their mouth shut anymore.  No one knows how to wrap cables over-under.  No one knows how to properly document and recall.  All those things that I learned either in school or in a major studio.





Exactly!!! If I haden't put in what I did in Full Sail I would have never learned what I know (not that I know much...)

What's interesting though, on the chef thing, is that I was a pro cook for 6 years before getting into audio. I never went to school, but learned from working in kitchens, and chef's taking me under their wing. They loved me, and tought me a lot about cooking/etc. I was working in a 4star place once when a couple guys, fresh from school, got hired on. The chef said to me "I'm not sure about these school guys, but I'm giving it a shot". I think they lasted a week. It was quite hillarious actually, and made me feel really good that I didn't waste $$ on school.

Logged
Morale of the day? Stop looking at what you're hearing.
yngve hoeyland 07'

Randy Wright
Mix Engineer
Mesa, Arizona
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9]   Go Up