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Author Topic: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?  (Read 6583 times)

acorec

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How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« on: June 30, 2005, 11:04:50 am »

A question I would like answers to. How many of you guys still cut tape? I would imagine that a DAW and digital editing saves tons of $$$, but, do studios still cut tape?
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J.J. Blair

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2005, 11:22:10 am »

I sometimes splice takes together on the 2" when called for.  I know that Nick Launay does lots of splicing with 2".
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electrical

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2005, 11:33:37 am »

I do, every time. Pocket knives are too unreliable.
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Greg Reierson

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2005, 11:41:26 am »

electrical wrote on Thu, 30 June 2005 10:33

I do, every time. Pocket knives are too unreliable.


HAR!


GR
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Rail Jon Rogut

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2005, 11:43:35 am »

The recently released Ry Cooder "Chavez Ravine" album I recorded was tracked to 2" and I did some edits (although I had a hard time finding a grease pencil at the studio).

Rail
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Sarusan

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2005, 03:48:24 pm »

The last time was a year ago.  Wish it were more often.  I tell you, after splicing together a 2" master you feel like you've done something.  Don't think that you ever get that feeling of satisfaction with a DAW.

Another interesting thing I've noticed is that artists respond really strongly to it.  They see the blade and suddenly they're making a "real" record instead of continuing the demo.

Steven
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Plush

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2005, 04:17:11 pm »

Definitely still cutting tape here--1/4" and 1/2".
Doing it for convenience, time saving and because I've always done it.


Hudsonek
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Matthew J Barnhart

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2005, 04:37:16 pm »

I'm a relatively young buck (28), and I edit 2" tape whenever necessary during tracking, and 1/4" during every mixing session. I've never bounced anything from the 2" to the DAW for editing, then back to tape either.

It's plenty fast for me and the bands I work with, and considering the amount of editing I'm doing the cost isn't any more than it would be using a DAW.

Then again, I'm not making disco records.

mb
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Greg Youngman

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2005, 05:29:33 pm »

I'm an old guy (52).  I like the pocket knife answer!!!  I wonder now, if we'll get into a "what razor blades are the best" thread??

I learned how to edit tape at about the age of 10.  The guy had Ampex ½" 3 track and 350 2 tracks.  God, those were fun times!  
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J.J. Blair

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2005, 06:39:00 pm »

Ten years ago, I had to make a track sound like a record was skipping, and I achieved it all through tapes edits.  It was tedious, but I was so proud of myself.  My internship at the ad agency after highschool really paid off!

Also, before DAW was affordable (only Sonic Solutions back then), and before I had a 1/2", I had to edit about 200 minutes of comedy material into a 74 minute CD all on the 2" @ 15 ips.  One of the only times I wished I had a DAW instead of tape.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

satisfactory

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2005, 10:10:39 pm »

yessir!

mostly 1/2" 8trk here

yesterday i had to fix a late snare drum hit.

i definitely prefer editing to:
reading a magazine or
dicking around on the interweb or
whatever i'm usually doing while The Band is Doing The Rock.

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vernier

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2005, 10:45:15 pm »

Digital editing will be obsolete (I give it two years max) .. and computers (as well as the net) will be completely gone (in probably shorter time than digital lasts) so, it's be probably best to stock up on blades now (as much as you can afford).
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Ronny

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2005, 11:17:01 pm »



I haven't used a splicing block in over 10 years. Just doesn't make sense if the final product is cd or dvd. It's much faster to load in and edit in the digital domain. It's more precise. If you screw up you can undo the damage with a push of the button. The tapes will archive better without splicing tape. You don't risk having a splice come loose and dump tape on the floor. I can't understand why anyone would splice when they can edit non-destructively.
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wwittman

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2005, 11:49:59 pm »

Sure. Cutting tape is really no big deal.

Actually re: pocket knives... Geoff Daking used ot carry a sharpened one that he'd edit 2" tape with... as he really liked how it freaked out the client.
You have to admire that.


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Matthew J Barnhart

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2005, 01:07:52 am »

Ronny wrote on Fri, 01 July 2005 04:17

I haven't used a splicing block in over 10 years. Just doesn't make sense if the final product is cd or dvd.


My perspective (stolen outright from engineers much smarter than I) is that the band's "final product" is the master tape that they'll keep forever, not the pressed CD.

In fifty years, if they're so lucky, Dave Collins III will remaster their record for release as Super Whizbang Infinite Bandwidth Telepathic Impression Music (SWIBTIM -- Copyright Me!), and the record will play back exactly the same as it did when the band made it.

DC III also won't be able to bill 10,000 Space Rubles per hour, recreating edits that I did for peanuts (or, more precisely, Thai food with peanut sauce) half a century before.

This then leads us into the analog vs. digital storage debate, which shouldn't really be entertaining for anyone at this point, right?

mb
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lord

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2005, 08:50:02 am »

Vernier, you are so high. Smile

Somebody asked me recently why we used naked razor blades instead of x-acto knives or similar modern cutting utensils.

I wasn't sure what the answer to that one was. But I'm sure it has something to do with the little dance they do near the han-d-mag?
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xonlocust

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2005, 09:39:26 am »

like the barnhart - i'm a youngin (29) doing it all on on 1/4" and 2". doubly agreed how often my clients say the best part of recording is when i A) spot erase B) rock the reels and they hear shit all satanic like C) use the razor.  basically: all the reasons why DAWs are "better" than tape. clearly everyone here knows that all of that stuff is no rocket science, but the perception among my small set of clients is that i know something the other people don't - and they're making a bona fide record.  they also typically are coming from having done previous sessions on DAW and leave saying they love tape and don't want to go DAW in the future.

this is probaly not suprisingly, punk and indie rock work.

Ronny

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2005, 12:59:28 pm »

Matthew J Barnhart wrote on Fri, 01 July 2005 01:07

Ronny wrote on Fri, 01 July 2005 04:17

I haven't used a splicing block in over 10 years. Just doesn't make sense if the final product is cd or dvd.


My perspective (stolen outright from engineers much smarter than I) is that the band's "final product" is the master tape that they'll keep forever, not the pressed CD.

In fifty years, if they're so lucky, Dave Collins III will remaster their record for release as Super Whizbang Infinite Bandwidth Telepathic Impression Music (SWIBTIM -- Copyright Me!), and the record will play back exactly the same as it did when the band made it.

DC III also won't be able to bill 10,000 Space Rubles per hour, recreating edits that I did for peanuts (or, more precisely, Thai food with peanut sauce) half a century before.

This then leads us into the analog vs. digital storage debate, which shouldn't really be entertaining for anyone at this point, right?

mb


Believe me Matthew, storing tape with many splices on it is by far worse than storing the original uncut tape. The splicing tape adhesive can deteriorate causing the tape to break apart when playing back. Some adhesives can liquify over time, run and gums up sections of tape that aren't spliced. If the final destination is going to be digital media, than transferring to digital realm and doing the editing there non destructively is a much better choice. Also, this past week I've been restoring some annie tapes that date back as far as 1968, some of the takes on these tapes were unacceptable at the time and were scratched and put on the out takes shelf. 35 years later, I load them into a DAW and using modern technology have now turned out takes into acceptable tracks for mixing. Had these original tapes been spliced, I never would have been able to edit and restore them.

You guys using pocket and exacto knives should spend the 20 bucks for a splicing block. The ones that I use have the razors built into the device, two clamping arms that firmly hold the tape and the razors are on the diagonal so that all splices come out uniformly the same. You simple press down on the razor arm and there is no physical cutting with a knife or hand held razor. Once you work with a block for a couple of weeks and get used to it, it's 5 times faster than using an exacto knife.
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McAllister

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2005, 01:35:52 pm »

I do, though it's not a commercial studio - just my own place where I do mostly my own stuff.

Thankfully, I don't need to do it too often.

M

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satisfactory

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2005, 04:05:38 pm »

Ronny wrote on Fri, 01 July 2005 19:59


You guys using pocket and exacto knives should spend the 20 bucks for a splicing block.


a twenty dollar splice block?  it is made out of tupperware?

remember:  one button 'undo' is mostly convenient for people who make mistakes Very Happy

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Ronny

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2005, 10:30:36 pm »

satisfactory wrote on Fri, 01 July 2005 16:05

Ronny wrote on Fri, 01 July 2005 19:59


You guys using pocket and exacto knives should spend the 20 bucks for a splicing block.


a twenty dollar splice block?  it is made out of tupperware?

remember:  one button 'undo' is mostly convenient for people who make mistakes Very Happy




The ones that I have are stainless steel and chromed steel. I don't think they had Tupperware when these were manufactured.
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satisfactory

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2005, 04:35:23 am »

yknow its an easy 200 bucks for a new 2" editall block nowadays?

probably because they have to wait until AFTER an order comes in before they blow the dust off the mold!
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justin collins,
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Ronny

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2005, 06:27:24 am »

satisfactory wrote on Sat, 02 July 2005 04:35

yknow its an easy 200 bucks for a new 2" editall block nowadays?

probably because they have to wait until AFTER an order comes in before they blow the dust off the mold!



Ha ha ha, I wasn't thinking about inflation. At least you don't have to worry about wearing them out.
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dcollins

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2005, 03:20:57 pm »

I've sure been fixing more splices then ever!  

Is going to leader becoming a lost art?

DC

Jerry Tubb

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Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2005, 11:16:45 pm »

acorec wrote on Thu, 30 June 2005 10:04

do studios still cut tape?


Yes they do !

Yesterday I mastered a record from 1/4" tape that was properly edited/leadered... Sugar Hill Studios in Houston still doin it !

..also fix lots of dried spices on older tapes during remastering.

de-mag those razor blades.
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