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[Adler]

In light of all of the buzz about the Algorithmix EQ plug-ins, I have requested a demo and am waiting for a response.  Could someone explain to me the primary differences between the Red and Orange EQ?  On their website, they state that the Red works in the "frequency domain" and the Orange works in the "time domain".  I know that there are various implementations of linear phase EQs, but I am confused by their ad copy.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Chris

[bobkatz]

Adler wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 09:53

In light of all of the buzz about the Algorithmix EQ plug-ins, I have requested a demo and am waiting for a response.  Could someone explain to me the primary differences between the Red and Orange EQ?  On their website, they state that the Red works in the "frequency domain" and the Orange works in the "time domain".  I know that there are various implementations of linear phase EQs, but I am confused by their ad copy. Any thoughts? Thanks, Chris

I initially learned this from Alan Silverman but I concur 100% with his reactions. The Red is an FIR equalizer, the Orange is an IIR. Reportedly the Red is the biggest CPU hog, but I've had mixed results as my SADiE system is very weak on Direct X bandwidth. Anyway, I like the Red because it has better bass definition, even better I think on the bottom end than my trusty Weiss EQ1-LP in Linear phase mode. So there must be something to this FIR business. Bottom line: The Orange and the Red sound different. I lean towards the Red, haven't found any reason to use the Orange over the red over here.



Bob Katz [who recently did a project with an L2 and it sounded better with it than without it! (one out of a hundred around here, usually it's the opposite)

[Adler]

Thanks for the info, Bob.  It's odd that Algorithmix is marketing the orange as a linear phase EQ when it is in fact an IIR EQ (although I believe in your book you explain that the Waves Linear Phase EQ is also some sort of IIR implementation).

Chris

[zenmastering]

I prefer the Algorithmix 'Orange' EQ for midrange uses and the 'Red' for hi/lo filter duties. I run them in series - and yes, they can be *serious* CPU hogs.

...worth it, in my opinion.

Graemme

[dcollins]

Fenris2 wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 22:46

How much pre-ringing does the Red have? Is it linear-phase or minimum-phase?

Linear-phase has pre-ringing.  Is it a bad thing?  I don't know.

Mother nature seems to like minimum phase. But not always.  

Is the whole "non-causal" thing a problemmelborp?

I should patent that...

DC

[Jerry Tubb]

Fenris2 wrote on Wed, 22 June 2005 00:46

Waves LinEQ, I can only use the gentlest slopes, or the transients start sounding like a bad MP3.

don't you think that's an exaggeration? like a bad 64k mp3, come on.  

[bobkatz]

Adler wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 10:31

Thanks for the info, Bob.  It's odd that Algorithmix is marketing the orange as a linear phase EQ when it is in fact an IIR EQ (although I believe in your book you explain that the Waves Linear Phase EQ is also some sort of IIR implementation). Chris

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding. Both Orange AND RED are linear phase. It's just the method to get there. The Orange uses double-IIR-reversed in the same manner as the Weiss to do linear phase.

[genericperson]

So the Red is then FIR-based?

[bobkatz]

genericperson wrote on Sat, 25 June 2005 12:28

So the Red is then FIR-based?

Yes.

[genericperson]

Thanks for clearing that up, Mr. Katz.

So if you get both Red and Orange you have IIR and FIR all in one package.  Makes sense.

[dcollins]

genericperson wrote on Sat, 25 June 2005 18:45

Thanks for clearing that up, Mr. Katz. So if you get both Red and Orange you have IIR and FIR all in one package.  Makes sense.

But the IIR is not IIR as you know it...

DC

[bblackwood]

genericperson wrote on Sat, 25 June 2005 11:28

So the Red is then FIR-based?

Umm, do it matter? How do it know?

Does it sound good for a certain application? That seems far more important to me than it's 'design'...

[Jerry Tubb]

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 25 June 2005 20:52

genericperson wrote on Sat, 25 June 2005 11:28 So the Red is then FIR-based? Umm, do it matter? How do it know? Does it sound good for a certain application? That seems far more important to me than it's 'design'...

Invoking the rule of thumb Brad ?

"If it Sounds Good ...use it !"  

[bobkatz]

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 25 June 2005 21:52

genericperson wrote on Sat, 25 June 2005 11:28 So the Red is then FIR-based? Umm, do it matter? How do it know? Does it sound good for a certain application? That seems far more important to me than it's 'design'...

The Red is fantastic for any purist project even through to rock and roll. Bass definition is excellent, better than the Orange or the Weiss.

[genericperson]

so what's the point of "orange"?

the hype on their website is that you use it for treble and bass boost.

i'm a surgical-oriented person myself, and can't understand why you couldn't simply make a high shelf in the Red-eq and get the "air" you're looking for.

not sure why linear-phase FIR would produce better "air" than double-processed liner-phase IIR.